You're Not Marketing Products or Services

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the #CX series, Ethan Beute, Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with Paul Ross, Master Hypnotist, Master Practitioner of NLP, and author of Subtle Words That Sell, about leveraging the power of language to guide people to the right decision.

Listen to more CX conversations on Ethan's podcast, The Customer Experience Podcast by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast player.

...you're never selling a product or service. You're always selling decisions and good feelings about decisions, and that takes place largely on the unconscious level. Paul Ross is a master hypnotist and master practitioner of neuro linguistic programming, or NLP. He's also CEO and head trainer at Subtle Words That Cell. He is our guest on this episode of the C X series Unbeatable Growth. My name is Ethan Butte, I am your host, and I was fascinated by so much of what Paul has to teach here about creating a state of focus with the person we're speaking with what we're actually selling. Which, by the way, is decisions and good feelings about those decisions. While using the power of suggestion is not manipulation and the three magic words to overcome our self limiting beliefs. Enjoy this conversation with Paul Ross today on the podcast. We're talking about talking but talking more effectively. Subconscious sales, overcoming objections, the power of language. In addition to being an author, speaker and trainer, our guest is a master hypnotist and a master practitioner of neuro linguistic programming. He's CEO and head trainer at subtle words that sell helping sales teams abandon the same worn out sales scripts assumed closes another stale techniques that often insult people's intelligence. So Paul Ross, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you. And as your audience is listening to me speak today, I just want to say I don't know what points they might stop and find themselves growing more and more fascinated about what we're sharing together. But as that's taking place, I just feel so honored to be here and to be observed this to everyone who's listening to me right now. That is very thoughtful introduction, and I guess I wonder before we get into it is, is any part of your of your teaching and training doesn't even advocate for something like that for what I just said, Yeah, yeah, like a sincere welcome in an expression of gratitude. Well, it was Yes, it does, and I'd layer everything I do. Almost everything I do is layered with hypnotic suggestion. There are a lot of suggestions layered into that. If you were one of my train students or a hypnotist, you would have picked up on what I said and I used some clever words I said we sharing together. I said I don't know, as we're sharing this together now we sharing together or what I call implied relationship words, they imply on the unconscious or subconscious level. You can use those terms interchangeably. They imply a relationship of trust and even leadership. Where there's a leader, there must be by implication, a what starts with the letter F follower. Now, I didn't say that. I didn't say I'm going to be leading you today. You're going to listen to what I say. You're gonna follow me and be very suggestible. But those three words we sharing together, we implies it's we're on the same side of the table share. Do we share things with people who we don't really trust? The deep things? No, not things that matter and together indeed implies that we're on the journey together. So I think these are really important tools to apply anywhere in the sales process anywhere and everywhere. I even implied them. I want to create that sense of trust and report right in the beginning through the use of my language. Well done, I at least even though I didn't follow it at that level, I just got a sense of like of gratitude and, uh, and service was a word that really stuck out to me and as well as a call to the listener. But I obviously didn't pick up on that level of detail. You're not supposed to be glad I asked. You're not supposed to. It's supposed to go in unconsciously...

...because you had that response. It tells me that it worked on the conscious level. You can't catch it unless you are very well trained. Awesome. So we will be getting into some of that. But before we do, we're gonna start where I start with everybody from a wide variety of disciplines. And I believe you're the first hypnotist on the show. So So there. There are a number of things unique about you, as there are of every guest. But one thing in common is that everyone kind of shares thoughts or characteristics or definition of customer experience. When I say that to you, Paul, what does it mean? Well, as far as serving my customers, I don't think of them as customers. First and foremost, I think of them as my students whether they're aware of that or not, because there's a different relationship. When I someone is my student, I have a higher level of responsibility. I have a to do, sure, a duty to them as my student, to be the best possible teacher that I can be now when you're I used to do insurance claims out of college. It was one of the most difficult, challenging jobs you can imagine because I used to tell people their car was uncovered, other house wasn't covered, and my job was the first and foremost sell myself on the idea that not to take it personally, that's not about me. And the second one was to convey that I'm there not to make them wrong or make me right, but to be of service to them. I didn't have the tools I have at the time, So for me it's about leadership that's created through service and suggestion customer experience. Good customer experience is about leadership and service that's created through the power of suggestion and sincerely wanted to wanting to help. If your staff for you does not sincerely want sincerely want to help and or they take things personally, I don't care how technically good your script is or how good your training is you're leaving out the most essential elements. May I add one more thing, please. No matter what your company or corporation or you individually as an entrepreneur thinks you're selling, you're not. You're never selling a product or service. You're always selling decisions and good feelings about decisions, and that takes place largely on the unconscious level. So remember, in addition to being in service to your customer, you're also in service of a good decision. That's really, really important to get. And you can't do that unless you first turn control of your state and know not to take it personally. So much good stuff there. I want to unpack a little bit of it first. I really appreciate your call for sincerity. I completely agree. You know what we do at Bom Bom is make it easy to record and send video messages and one of my cautions and people generally take it as a joke even though it's it is offered as such. But it's also real. It's like one of the best things you can do if you're sincere about your message and your relationship with the other person or the product the service. The decision is a new language. For me, video is one of the best things you can do because it's it's so much more rich, and you can convey it in a way that people will feel they'll feel that sincerity in a way that they won't through your plane type out text. And the caution, of course, is if your instance here and transactional reminded you don't actually care that they're do video because people can sense that discrepancy between the two. Another really good thing that you did there is, um, is again later in this decision thing. I actually think there's so much about custom. I think some of the language that we're using today around customer experience really is about peeling off that product or service, which most people say there's too much competition in product parody, etcetera. Not to recognize that most businesses are in a trajectory toward commodification. Exactly. Experience is what is the differentiator, and I think you peel off the product or service and get to this decision and having people feel good about their decisions, their decision to engage with you their decision to commit to you their decision to take the meeting, to take the appointment, to reply to the email...

...to type in the credit card number. Whatever the case may be, it's really good. Now I'm gonna say something very controversial and a very how can I put this counterintuitive? I tend to be a disrupter, so I'm gonna be a little disruptor here. Being in service is great and what I want to add into that not but and suggestion along with service. If you're simply observe Isse, that's great. But don't assume that your client or customer knows how to make a good decision because we're living. Yes, we're living in a time when products and services are commoditized, you're absolutely right. But it's equally true that there's market saturation and it's equally true that people don't have the focus that they used to have, and they don't trust their own decisions anymore for good reasons. So I would say that yes, being sincere is great, but you can be crafty in the service of being sincere, so being crafty, being able to structure your message, to reach them to the unconscious level and being sincere, they may appear to be an opposition, but they actually work together. I invite anyone watching this to put their thumb and forefinger together. They work in opposition to yet in cooperation with each other. That's what enabled us to rise above every other species and be the dominant species on the planet. So what I teach seems to be paradoxical. But what I'll offer to people is in paradox. There is power. When you see a power paradox, it means the old paradigm is shattering or falling away. And it's time for a new paradigm. And that's when I'm as crazy as bat bleep. I won't curse on your show. Crazy as that appears to be, I'm saying that's possible. You can be both crafty and sincere at the same time, even though they appear to be contradictory, they're not. So let's get into that a little bit because one of the areas I wanted to go into, and it's not that I hold this position, but I'm asking kind of out of a genuine curiosity and on behalf of people that might be wondering such a thing. You know, when they hear hypnotism when they hear subconscious sales, You know, I really love that you already addressed this, uh, and I like the use of the opposable thumb. By the way, if you are listening to this and not watching, you can always go to bomb bomb dot com slash podcast. We do short write ups on all of these episodes. We pull some video clips from because we recorded with Zoom. So I dropped some video clips in there. Some highlights of the show and, of course, links to some of the stuff that we talked about. So you can always find that stuff at bob bob dot com slash podcasts. I'll be sure to include that clip, Paul, so that people can follow along with the with the point you were making about about the two working together and again, it was somewhere I wanted to go like this. This line between persuasion and coercion, right? So I think I think what some people, depending on, maybe the time of day they're listening, or something that happened to them personally in their lives, or maybe a long held beliefs about how things could should would be done, you know, talk about that tension between the idea of suggestion and hypnotism and subconscious sales strategies and approaches from a persuasion. Coercion. I will, I will. And as I'm addressing that, what I'd like to speak into is that whether you wanted to or not, most decisions are going to be made subconsciously or unconsciously. This is a pretty trite metaphor, but if you imagine an iceberg as a metaphor for human consciousness, we know only 15% or so of the iceberg is showing above the surface. The rest of it is taking place on the unconscious level. So whether you know it or not, you're going to be addressing the unconscious anyway. You may as well structured in a way that helps the other person. I have a radically different definition of selling to me. Selling is not about necessarily getting your ideas and the other person's mind. It's about expanding their mind to include choices they didn't know were there and getting them off of their autopilot. First response. Their autopilot. First...

...response to being angry or feeling self righteous. Now, more directly address your question. Here's my distinction between Well, let me back up or go to the side a little bit hypnosis. If your view of hypnosis is about controlling other people making them bark like a dog or do things against their will. That's not what I'm talking about, that stage tricks. I've never done that. I've used it for influence and for healing. What's not in my biography that I think you got? As I've done a lot of healing work for men who are very scared of relationships, I've done a lot of healing work. So to me coercion and manipulation, which is not what I do, involves a few of the following things. Number one lying about facts saying the car does 60 MPG when it only does 30 concealing material facts saying that your company is really doing well. But in fact your stock is dropping like a lead falcon trying to fly, pushing down on people's pain. But their shame, their guilt, their fear and finally, coercion. Do it or I'm going to harm you in some way. That, to me, is not any. What influenced persuasion about influenced persuasion is simply about that process of selling someone on a decision that serves them and what I want to point out again. And this is said with respect, most of your prospects just don't know how to make a good decision or they're extremely conflicted around it. People do not come to you with a blank slate. People did not come to you certainly in the super positive state, sure themselves, knowing that they deserve what you have to offer. And also, this is the biggest challenge. People are just not focused anymore. We live in the age, uh, instant messaging this thing. I'm holding up my iPhone. For those of you who are listening, there's instagram LinkedIn tender. Not that I know anything about tender, you understand, So people are distracted and they just don't have the focus. So you need to learn to create those states to focus very quickly. Yeah. I also like you're just harkening back a few minutes there to the idea of opening up someone's perspective and allowing them to know that there are choices and decisions that maybe even went on the table before. I really like the way you broke that down. I think your definition of of manipulation is one that anyone should be able to relate to and respect. I think it's fantastic. Give me a quick go on this one. You know, we are talking in a sales context. We're talking about subtle words that sell. Of course, um, if you were to be a subscriber to Dan, Pink's idea of sales is that everyone is in sales that we all need to influence and persuade words that you just used. We all need to influence and persuade open up people's minds two choices and decisions, whether they're transactional, buying decisions or whether there are other decisions to be made. I just wanted to broaden this conversation a minute and share with me your thoughts on talking about, you know, prospects, customers, sales versus sales as persuasion and influence. I don't think they're contradictory. They're not at all. I don't see them as because you used the word with respect. You use the word versus I don't think they're in any way adverse to one another. They're the same thing. The question is, are you going to do it in a clumsy way? Are you going to do it in a high pressure way? Are going to do it in a stale way? Or here's the thing in a way where your prospects have heard it before. Here's Here's the thing a tactic identified as a tactic diffuse the tactic that won't work. One of the reasons why I say in my book. So the words that sell the old, worn out scripts assume closes, tag questions. It insults your prospects. Intelligence,...

...because they've heard it before. It's not that I'm saying to you. Look, what I have will replace everything you have in your sales process. If you have a sales process that's working for you great. And if you add in what I have to teach, it'll turbo charge it, and it will allow you to gradually drop the old stuff. People have heard it before, over and over and over. May I give you a metaphor? Yes, please. Oh, quite some time ago, I was pulled over by a motorcycle police officer, and the first thing I said is I did it. I'm guilty. I went against the light. I'll pay that. Fine. Please, just give me the ticket. And he gave me a look. He said license. He took my insurance on my information and he came back and he said, You know what? You didn't be asked me with a story. I'm gonna give you a break you get it? So when we don't be s our prospects when we don't bs our customers when we present something because we're presenting something they've never heard before. The motorcycle cop here is the same excuses. After two months on the job, everyone gives them the same excuses. Your customers and prospects have a unique paradox in them. I kept talking about paradox will keep introducing this idea. Number one. They're more sophisticated than ever because they're bombarded with more sales messages and, yeah, right, on the other hand, there dumbed down and numbed out by TV and overwhelming the rest of it. So you have to be able to juggle those two things. Is that making sense to describe it? Was that responsive to your question? Totally. Yeah. So let's, uh, let's get into subtle words that sell. You've already given us a really nice pass on we share together. Um, what are some other? From a practical standpoint, you know, I'm sure people that are with us at this point in the conversation had some appreciation for we share and together, and they may want to hear a little bit more. What are a few more kind of key ideas here. Well, the key idea is first and foremost. Whatever you can get, your prospect to imagine for themselves would be perceived as being their own thought, and therefore they will not resist it. So if you can learn to be, how can I put this? If you can learn to be sufficiently vague in your language and this is an advanced training, I normally don't give this to my beginning students. But if I said to you, for example, if I were selling real estate and remember, I'm not selling real estate, No one is. We're always selling decisions and good feelings about decisions. If I said before I go through our marketing plan together, I know that you're really going to like the homes we've got because there are over 3000 square feet their value appreciates by 15% a year, and I'm sure that you're going to be very satisfied with what it is I'm going to present. So let's get going. Oh, by the way, ask questions if you have them. I want to say something like, as we're exploring this together today, I'm not sure at which point you might find yourself growing more and more interested in what it is you're learning. We're learning together. But as that's taking place, feel free to ask the questions that naturally arise when a great decisions being made. Now that's very vague. I didn't say what they're going to get excited about, did I? Nope. I don't know. We're exploring something together, right? I didn't say what points. They're going to get excited. I didn't say what getting excited. Looks like them too. It looks like for them is that they imagine themselves in the home. I didn't say it. I said something more clever. I used what I called unconscious communication words or transports. I said, Find yourself. What does it mean to find yourself doing something? Did you ever just find yourself reaching for the refrigerator and you don't even remember walking up to it? And you don't even remember what it was you...

...wanted? You're just looking your head in. Do you ever just find yourself falling in love? Yes, you did. You ever find yourself falling out of love and thinking, What the heck was I thinking? Sure, I'm sure we all have. So those kind of automatic subconscious behaviors. When you put in those words, discover yourself. Find yourself. I call them trance phrases or unconscious communication words, and they imply something. It's going to take place automatically. You don't have to make any efforts, and you don't need to resist because it's going to happen in a way where it's of service to you. These little things, just simple phrases like this can take what you're already doing. You don't need to drop your existing cells process and turbo charge it. What are counter examples? I love counter examples, so counter examples are a example of the broader category of communication called pattern interrupt. You see people behave, think, feel and predictable patterns. When you interrupt that pattern, they become temporarily suggestible and you can lead them. This is something taken from classical hypnotherapy. The father of modern hypnotherapy, Dr Milton Erickson would often do. Pattern interrupts on clients, and during that period that windows suggest ability. He could suggest new behaviors, so counter examples from my favorites. Let's say someone says, I need to think it over roleplay with me, so I'm not so sure. Paul, I need to think it over. Great. I understand, is it okay if I ask you a question? Sure. Have you ever taken a long time to think something over? And it still turned out to be the wrong decision I have. Maybe it's not about time, but about the clarity you need to recognize. You really do want to move forward. So, thinking about it like that, why don't we explore together what it is you really need to recognize? Yes, this is a good choice. So let's go through it. Share your questions with me or your concerns so we can clear them up. And you can take that step today. You hear the suggestions? Take that step today, move forward, make a great decision. Absolutely. And and to me, the most powerful thing was just taking time off the table. Time is a pat excuse. Exactly, exactly. That's exactly the advanced training I would give to someone who now decides become my student. We're reframing it from being about time, which you can't get out of that into making about clarity. And we're also using the power of suggestion to logically link once they get the clarity than they will move forward through the power of suggestion. and oftentimes, by the way, I need more time. It's a smokescreen because your prospect doesn't want to say I'm too confused to understand it. That would make them with dump in this world to themselves, not just to you but to themselves. And they don't want to tell that story to themselves. Right? So this gives them a way to save face. It reframes what it's about. And through the clever use of suggestion, it links getting the clarity to making the decision. I'm telling you, I get I cannot convey the power of this simply. Do you feel my excitement and my passion coming through at doing this? Yes. And I see it as well. Yeah, I know. I love doing this. So I absolutely, transparently to your audience. I I had a very difficult morning because of things going on with my family. And I said to you, Don't worry about it. This gives me relief from all of that and I'll give you a great show. How am I doing so far? Very good. Thank you. Yeah, I like that call back to the beginning. I can, you know. Yes, it's great. So neural linguistic programming when I see you know, when I see NLP, I think of a natural language processing, and I think about computers trying to understand human language and the subtleties and variants. But of course,...

...that's not what this is. This is neural linguistic programming, but I don't know anything about it. Tell me a little bit about it. Cool. Well, there's an old joke about two rabbis. If you put I'm Jewish, I can say this. But if you to put two rabbis in the room and ask them a question, you'll get 50 opinions. So put to an L peers in the room and ask What is NLP? You'll get 50 opinions. This is only my model, my map having used it for over 32 years and seeing great results and great results for my clients. NLP is former foremost about two things. First and foremost, it's a map, a technology for modeling excellence, for looking at someone who does something, well, extracting out the different elements of that excellence and then teaching other people to take it on. The second thing, I believe it is the study of how language structures, consciousness, shapes, decisions and drives behavior That's the second thing it's about. And the third thing is, it's a set of presuppositions about human beings work. It's a map. It's not necessarily true. For example, one of the pre suppositions of NLP is people do the best behavior that they have at the time. People always try to do their best. It's not that there's something wrong with people. Just maybe, their map of possibilities is off. Or, as I say, they're on autopilot. I have this teaching that I think is unique to me, that the brain the mind works on repetition. Familiar, very familiar arid familiarity. Excuse me and momentum. So when you go to change an area of life that's difficult, your old patterns are thinking they're going to come up not because you hate yourself for your this thing called the self sabotage, but simply because they come up because they have momentum. And so NLP is a recognition of looking at all these processes and the technology for doing so. And then, finally, there's a persuasion model of an L. P. How to use these things for influence and persuasion. And how did you Is this a formal field of study How do you know how you know? How does this plug into the work that you do? From a practical standpoint? Well, let me. That's three questions. There's NLP trainings you can take. I think most of the trainings are pretty much bollocks. My British friends would say Not that they don't offer useful stuff, but there's what I call the seminar phenomenon. When someone comes into a seminar, they're raising their hand and self selecting and saying Yes, yes, I wanted to work on me. Please let it work on me. I paid my money. I've taken the time out for travel. I'm getting all the time. This event? Yes, Yes, it's gonna work on me. But what works in the seminar where people are volunteering and wanted to work nationally? I mean, it's gonna translate out into the real world anymore than karate that you practice in a dojo is gonna win a street fight. So I looked at all of this and I thought, Okay, how can I extract that? What actually works. So I tested it and tested it in different sales situations, and I also used to be a dating coach. So I help guys get over their fears, using it and to communicate in a way that was very attractive. That's not in my bio, but it's a very unique way, and so that's how I begin to apply it. And then I began to teach it and found that people from virtually any field at any point in their sales process, whether they were veterans or newbies or somewhere in between could really up what they were doing and also make sales more enjoyable. Look, I think sales can and ought to be joyful. Yeah, I think when done well, it should be that way. Almost anything that we have some level of comfort or excitement about, and certainly mastery in general would give us a little bit of that. And the parallels to dating in sales are many, I'm sure. Well, you know a date fundamentally as the sale, you've got...

...to get yourself all ready with confidence. You've got to look for leads. You've got to set an appointment with the prospect. You've got to get report, do your process. Forgive me. I don't need to be rude. Close the deal and then handle objections and handle a lot of notes. Yeah. And discovery and other decision makers that you may or may not know or even in the sales. Well, yeah, You just taught me something. Come to think of it. Yes, that's true. Yeah, right. Well, that her friend is not on board with this idea. You know that kind of thing? Boy Neural linguistic programming. When you're working with folks who primarily helping people identify their own patterns or to recognize them and other people, some of both, both both absolutely both. I'll do some free coaching here just for the heck of it. Just to demonstrate my prowess and to brag. One of the things that pretty much creates instant change and the skin is the power of language. People come to me and say I just can't close the big money clients. I give them three magic words to destroy those limiting beliefs. Here they are. You're ready? Ready out there and podcast land. Up until now, we up until now it was the case. I didn't have the skills to close the big money clients. It takes the limitation. It acknowledges that that it was real. So we get report with the unconscious mind. But it binds it in time. It says it was true up until this binds it in time, and it also separates it from who you are as a person. You see, when it comes to changing beliefs, it's relatively easy to change beliefs about capability, possibility. But changing beliefs about identity is really difficult, so it's better to just disconnect the whole thing from your sense of identity in the first place. I love it. It reminds me of I I I In fact, I just had a nice exchange about this on Linked in. I've been incorporating into some of the presentations. I give a little passage on the power of yet because a lot of people, when they come to us again at Bom Bom will make it easy to record and send video messages. There's something more challenging for a lot of people to have a recording of the video to send to someone else or to share to someone else than, say, doing a live back and forth video like this because they can play it back and judge it and all these other things. And so I wind up having to do some of this kind of motivational work that I'm sure you would probably be able to really peel into. But I talk about the power of yet, and what I'm doing is kin to up until now. But I'm putting it at the end. It's like, you know, I'm not the kind of person that records videos and sends them to all of my past clients yet right? Let me suggest that if you introduce it, if you do your process, but just move it to the beginning because of them, it reframes the entire conversation rather than waiting to the end. Correct. It's those little tweaks in an already good sales process. I mean this I have in my class forward back there, a list of my ideal clients and one of the things about my ideal clients is they already have a successful sales process, because I I am the most expensive coach will ever be glad you worked with. And so I only deal with people who are already successful, and that means they already have a successful sales process. But just adding in little tweets like that, you can see you can see how it makes a profound difference Yeah, Give just give me a little bit of a kind of Paul Ross at a high level or a historic level. I I can see. Or I get the sense that you're layering interests and skills on top of one another for yourself. And then, obviously you've developed skills to teach them to other people in a in a way that makes sense from coaching people who have issues that limit them from building relationships with other people to...

...obviously a sales process, which I would assume probably pays a little bit more. Maybe because because the R. O I is so much more obvious. Uh, but, you know, where were you 25 years ago? Like, how did you stack these kinds of interests? How much of it was personal interest and curiosity? It was much of it. It was it was both. And here's the funny thing how I first got interested in applying this to sales. I first started doing this as a dating coach, and I started to get emails. The people would send me beautiful emails attached, picturing of their wife or picturing of their first kids and saying, Thank you so much. You helped me meet the woman of my dreams. I never would have had the confidence or the communication skills. But then around 2005, I started to get an email saying, Hey, I'm with my wife, Thank you. She's everything I ever dreamed of, and I've been using your stuff for selling and it's really working. So I got I would get these people on the phone, interrogate them and began to see what they had in comments. So I began to take my first pops at translating this into into sales, and I get groups of beta testers together and go out and use this. Go out and use this. Go out and use this until I began to see really good results for everybody so smart. Absolutely it does are two things I especially love about it. The first is, um, that you did customer interviews to to understand more about this trend that you're identifying, which of course, is the critical to success in general and specifically to improving the experience you create and deliver for customers. But then also it harkens back to that question that I asked awkwardly and apparently used the word versus while I was doing a long set up to the question of it just validates this idea of to sell as human that we're all selling and influencing and persuading all of the time. And so I love that it that you started there and and came into well, believe me. Believe me, teaching sales is a lot easier than I thought, guys who are 40 years old and never had a date. So if you think about that, you're really dealing with some very, very psychological challenges, if not to say Brokenness. So if I can teach people like that how to reach their dreams, then I can take people who are already successful. And I already have a good degree of confidence and really take them to the stratosphere, which is what I love. It's not that I don't I want to help everyone. I just don't have the time. It's not financially feasible to help everyone who's anyone can grab the book subtle words itself. It's 14 bucks 15 bucks on Amazon. Yeah, and then that speaks a bit to your ideal clients as well. You want to take healthy situations and make them even better, Better I want to take people who are stars and make them superstars. It's fantastic. I really appreciate the work that you're doing. This is really, really interesting. I love it. I want to go. I want to get at least five more of those 50 definitions of of neural linguistic programming. Uh, for folks that have enjoyed this conversation, kind of the some of the themes and topics we've been into. I've got a couple more episodes of this podcast I know you'll enjoy. Back on Episode 47 with Brian Robinson, who wrote a book called The Selling Formula. We titled that episode asking better sales questions for greater sales success. And it was that it wasn't as specifically psychologically oriented, although certainly his approach to conversation would be kin here. And I think your your definitions of selling, I think if the two of you connected would be would be similar as well and episodes. His name's Brian Robinson and, uh, he he does some teaching, wrote the book selling formula. He also has a VP of partnerships job at a company called Works Works 24 I think, and then on an episode 51 Joe Caprio who at the time was VP of sales. Of course, he's now the co founder of a new software company called Draperies. We call that how to enable your sales team Practical tips for sales leaders That was more of...

...a traditional sales enablement conversation. But obviously what we're talking about here is investing in developing equipping salespeople to be more effective at what they're trying to do every day. And Paul, I think you did a very nice job. I love this. I love this. I love this. I wish I could do this for another couple hours. Cool. Well, OK, just well extended a couple more minutes. What is something that you you know, something that you wish. People that are listening at this point there obviously, into the conversation they're into you and the things that you think and teach because they've been with us to this point. What is something I haven't asked you that you generally find that a you enjoy talking about or be people find very helpful or see people find very provocative any of the a B or C Wow. Something you haven't shared yet That you would like to. I guess is the is the short take. That's a really good question. As far as provocative. I am a disruptor. I think a lot of what I say is provocative. I will example say that if I'm in a group of people who are pretending about sales and this was back when we could speak live before the virus hit us all, I would say that it's okay to be very suggestible and to lead your clients to the decisions that work for them. But I would really lean on the suggestible part, and I would say to people, If you're not using suggestion, then you're suggesting that you're not a good leader, so that kind of confuses people. If you're not using suggestion, then you're suggesting that you're not a good leader. So I like to confuse people, and I don't like to confuse people. I like to challenge your way of thinking by creating paradox again in Paradox series power. When you hear something that seemingly contradictory, it's a sign that the old paradigm is falling apart and also you quite diplomatically left out one word that haven't recovered my plug. And so I like to use Yiddish idiom I was raised Jewish, and my parents spoke Yiddish at the table, so I often will throw in colorful metaphors from Yiddish that some people don't want at at their group trainings or any of the rest of it. I'm not for everybody. I can tell you that I control my mouth, as you can see. But I would say I'm not for everybody. Okay, Um, so relationships Paula, our number one core value here. And so before I let you go and before you tell people where they can connect with you, learn more about the book. Learn more about subtle words, Excel, et cetera. I would love to give you the chance to give a thank or mentioned as someone who's had a positive impact on your life for your career. And were you to give a mention or a shout out or a nod to a brand or a company that you really respect or appreciation for the way they deliver for you as a customer? Well, actually, the person has had the biggest influence on me. I've been very lucky to have great teachers. Great mentors was my mother. May she rest in peace. My mother taught me to be an independent thinker, not to be afraid of offending or disrupting people's other ideas. My mom once said to me when I was sassing her like eight years old, she shook her finger at me and said, Listen, kid, if you don't knock it off, you're going to become an economy class I said, What's that, Mom? He said that someone who goes around knocking over other people's sacred idols and ideas. I thought, Yes, I want to be in economy class So my mom had the most. I've had great teachers. I don't put them down. But my mom really influenced my way of thinking to think outside the box. What was your second one? A company or a brand that you really appreciate that you are a customer of, And they do a great job serving you. I've been using FedEx either as an employee or as an entrepreneur and business owner. Since 1984 85. FedEx and thousands of experiences has maybe let me down, and that's when I use one of their contractors. FedEx Ground FedEx has been absolutely amazing. They still...

...deliver on their core promise upon which they built their business when it absolutely, positively has to get there overnight. And they've been great. I love FedEx. Awesome. I have not heard that one before. And that reliability? I mean, how many times would you say you've tested the system? Hundreds, thousands, thousands, thousands. And you? Can you think of one or two failures in two, maybe three tops? That's that's customer service. Yeah, and I'm sure they recovered. Well, I don't recall. I'll tell you the truth. Sure, that's a very, very high success rate. Paul, this has been awesome. I really enjoyed the conversation very much. And, uh, and folks are listening at this moment, I know they have as well. So if they want to take this farther, if they want to connect with you online or learn more about your work, where would you send people to follow up? Well, here's what you can do. You can jump if if you already have a six. And again, I'm just selective. I mean, no disrespect to anybody. If you already have the successful, like six or even seven for your business, you've got a sales process that's working. You're already a star. I want to be a superstar, you can arrange for a discovery call. Here's the thing about 30 to 40% of the time on these calls, I'll just give you one tweak and you can go off on your merry way. And so I think it has value. Based on that, you can hear how I'm a good coach just here. So it's easy to do. They run anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes. Just go to Speaker Paul ross dot com that speaker Paul ross dot com forward slash discovery Speaker Paul ross dot com forward slash discovery and we'll jump on and we'll have a look at what you're doing. And again, oftentimes it's just a couple of tweets and you can be off on your merry way. Awesome. I will. I will link up your website. I'll link up the Discovery page for folks who are listening again. We do roundups of these at bom bom dot com slash podcast. And of course, you can subscribe in your favorite player. Appreciate you so much for listening. And Paul, I love it coming and spending some time with us. I love it. Thank you. Thank you. It's been my great pleasure to be someone who can share together all these things where you can find yourself making use of them as you move forward today and into your wonderful future. Up until now, that's something I share with Paul. Ross had historically done it by tacking the word yet on to the end of a statement. We need these beliefs in order to stay in a posture of learning and growth. If you want to learn from more interesting experts like Paul Ross, check out the customer experience podcast. You can learn more by visiting bomb bomb dot com slash podcast or by searching the customer experience podcast in your preferred podcast player. You'll know you've got the right one when you see the orange tile, the customer experience podcast. My name is Ethan Butte. I am your host, and I appreciate you so much. Thank you for listening to the C X Series here on B two b Growth. Are you on LinkedIn? That's a stupid question. Of course you're on LinkedIn here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in on the platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me Other times, it's a micro video or a slide deck, and sometimes it's just a regular old status update that shares their unique point of view on B two B marketing leadership or their job function. We're posting this content through their personal profile, not our company page, and it would warm my heart and soul. If you connected with each of our evangelists, we'll be adding more down the road. But for now, you should connect with Bill. Read our CEO, Kelcy Montgomery, our creative director. Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth. Logan Lyles, our director of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot of fun on linked in pretty much every single day, and we'd love for you to be a part of it.

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