B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2009 · 8 months ago

You're Not Marketing Products or Services

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the #CX series, Ethan Beute, Chief Evangelist at BombBomb, talks with Paul Ross, Master Hypnotist, Master Practitioner of NLP, and author of Subtle Words That Sell, about leveraging the power of language to guide people to the right decision.

Listen to more CX conversations on Ethan's podcast, The Customer Experience Podcast by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast player.

...you're never selling a product orservice. You're always selling decisions and good feelings aboutdecisions, and that takes place largely on the unconscious level. Paul Ross isa master hypnotist and master practitioner of neuro linguisticprogramming, or NLP. He's also CEO and head trainer at Subtle Words That Cell.He is our guest on this episode of the C X series Unbeatable Growth. My nameis Ethan Butte, I am your host, and I was fascinated by so much of what Paulhas to teach here about creating a state of focus with the person we'respeaking with what we're actually selling. Which, by the way, isdecisions and good feelings about those decisions. While using the power ofsuggestion is not manipulation and the three magic words to overcome our selflimiting beliefs. Enjoy this conversation with Paul Ross today onthe podcast. We're talking about talking but talking more effectively.Subconscious sales, overcoming objections, the power of language. Inaddition to being an author, speaker and trainer, our guest is a masterhypnotist and a master practitioner of neuro linguistic programming. He's CEOand head trainer at subtle words that sell helping sales teams abandon thesame worn out sales scripts assumed closes another stale techniques thatoften insult people's intelligence. So Paul Ross, welcome to the customerexperience podcast. Thank you. And as your audience is listening to me speaktoday, I just want to say I don't know what points they might stop and findthemselves growing more and more fascinated about what we're sharingtogether. But as that's taking place, I just feel so honored to be here and tobe observed this to everyone who's listening to me right now. That is verythoughtful introduction, and I guess I wonder before we get into it is, is anypart of your of your teaching and training doesn't even advocate forsomething like that for what I just said, Yeah, yeah, like a sincerewelcome in an expression of gratitude. Well, it was Yes, it does, and I'dlayer everything I do. Almost everything I do is layered withhypnotic suggestion. There are a lot of suggestions layered into that. If youwere one of my train students or a hypnotist, you would have picked up onwhat I said and I used some clever words I said we sharing together. Isaid I don't know, as we're sharing this together now we sharing togetheror what I call implied relationship words, they imply on the unconscious orsubconscious level. You can use those terms interchangeably. They imply arelationship of trust and even leadership. Where there's a leader,there must be by implication, a what starts with the letter F follower. Now,I didn't say that. I didn't say I'm going to be leading you today. You'regoing to listen to what I say. You're gonna follow me and be very suggestible.But those three words we sharing together, we implies it's we're on thesame side of the table share. Do we share things with people who we don'treally trust? The deep things? No, not things that matter and together indeedimplies that we're on the journey together. So I think these are reallyimportant tools to apply anywhere in the sales process anywhere andeverywhere. I even implied them. I want to create that sense of trust andreport right in the beginning through the use of my language. Well done, I atleast even though I didn't follow it at that level, I just got a sense of likeof gratitude and, uh, and service was a word that really stuck out to me and aswell as a call to the listener. But I obviously didn't pick up on that levelof detail. You're not supposed to be glad I asked. You're not supposed to.It's supposed to go in unconsciously...

...because you had that response. It tellsme that it worked on the conscious level. You can't catch it unless youare very well trained. Awesome. So we will be getting into some of that. Butbefore we do, we're gonna start where I start with everybody from a widevariety of disciplines. And I believe you're the first hypnotist on the show.So So there. There are a number of things unique about you, as there areof every guest. But one thing in common is that everyone kind of sharesthoughts or characteristics or definition of customer experience. WhenI say that to you, Paul, what does it mean? Well, as far as serving mycustomers, I don't think of them as customers. First and foremost, I thinkof them as my students whether they're aware of that or not, because there's adifferent relationship. When I someone is my student, I have a higher level ofresponsibility. I have a to do, sure, a duty to them as my student, to be thebest possible teacher that I can be now when you're I used to do insuranceclaims out of college. It was one of the most difficult, challenging jobsyou can imagine because I used to tell people their car was uncovered, otherhouse wasn't covered, and my job was the first and foremost sell myself onthe idea that not to take it personally, that's not about me. And the second onewas to convey that I'm there not to make them wrong or make me right, butto be of service to them. I didn't have the tools I have at the time, So for meit's about leadership that's created through service and suggestion customerexperience. Good customer experience is about leadership and service that'screated through the power of suggestion and sincerely wanted to wanting to help.If your staff for you does not sincerely want sincerely want to helpand or they take things personally, I don't care how technically good yourscript is or how good your training is you're leaving out the most essentialelements. May I add one more thing, please. No matter what your company orcorporation or you individually as an entrepreneur thinks you're selling,you're not. You're never selling a product or service. You're alwaysselling decisions and good feelings about decisions, and that takes placelargely on the unconscious level. So remember, in addition to being inservice to your customer, you're also in service of a good decision. That'sreally, really important to get. And you can't do that unless you first turncontrol of your state and know not to take it personally. So much good stuffthere. I want to unpack a little bit of it first. I really appreciate your callfor sincerity. I completely agree. You know what we do at Bom Bom is make iteasy to record and send video messages and one of my cautions and peoplegenerally take it as a joke even though it's it is offered as such. But it'salso real. It's like one of the best things you can do if you're sincereabout your message and your relationship with the other person orthe product the service. The decision is a new language. For me, video is oneof the best things you can do because it's it's so much more rich, and youcan convey it in a way that people will feel they'll feel that sincerity in away that they won't through your plane type out text. And the caution, ofcourse, is if your instance here and transactional reminded you don'tactually care that they're do video because people can sense thatdiscrepancy between the two. Another really good thing that you did there is,um, is again later in this decision thing. I actually think there's so muchabout custom. I think some of the language that we're using today aroundcustomer experience really is about peeling off that product or service,which most people say there's too much competition in product parody, etcetera.Not to recognize that most businesses are in a trajectory towardcommodification. Exactly. Experience is what is the differentiator, and I thinkyou peel off the product or service and get to this decision and having peoplefeel good about their decisions, their decision to engage with you theirdecision to commit to you their decision to take the meeting, to takethe appointment, to reply to the email...

...to type in the credit card number.Whatever the case may be, it's really good. Now I'm gonna say something verycontroversial and a very how can I put this counterintuitive? I tend to be adisrupter, so I'm gonna be a little disruptor here. Being in service isgreat and what I want to add into that not but and suggestion along withservice. If you're simply observe Isse, that's great. But don't assume thatyour client or customer knows how to make a good decision because we'reliving. Yes, we're living in a time when products and services arecommoditized, you're absolutely right. But it's equally true that there'smarket saturation and it's equally true that people don't have the focus thatthey used to have, and they don't trust their own decisions anymore for goodreasons. So I would say that yes, being sincere is great, but you can be craftyin the service of being sincere, so being crafty, being able to structureyour message, to reach them to the unconscious level and being sincere,they may appear to be an opposition, but they actually work together. Iinvite anyone watching this to put their thumb and forefinger together.They work in opposition to yet in cooperation with each other. That'swhat enabled us to rise above every other species and be the dominantspecies on the planet. So what I teach seems to be paradoxical. But what I'lloffer to people is in paradox. There is power. When you see a power paradox, itmeans the old paradigm is shattering or falling away. And it's time for a newparadigm. And that's when I'm as crazy as bat bleep. I won't curse on yourshow. Crazy as that appears to be, I'm saying that's possible. You can be bothcrafty and sincere at the same time, even though they appear to becontradictory, they're not. So let's get into that a little bit because oneof the areas I wanted to go into, and it's not that I hold this position, butI'm asking kind of out of a genuine curiosity and on behalf of people thatmight be wondering such a thing. You know, when they hear hypnotism whenthey hear subconscious sales, You know, I really love that you alreadyaddressed this, uh, and I like the use of the opposable thumb. By the way, ifyou are listening to this and not watching, you can always go to bombbomb dot com slash podcast. We do short write ups on all of these episodes. Wepull some video clips from because we recorded with Zoom. So I dropped somevideo clips in there. Some highlights of the show and, of course, links tosome of the stuff that we talked about. So you can always find that stuff atbob bob dot com slash podcasts. I'll be sure to include that clip, Paul, sothat people can follow along with the with the point you were making aboutabout the two working together and again, it was somewhere I wanted to golike this. This line between persuasion and coercion, right? So I think I thinkwhat some people, depending on, maybe the time of day they're listening, orsomething that happened to them personally in their lives, or maybe along held beliefs about how things could should would be done, you know,talk about that tension between the idea of suggestion and hypnotism andsubconscious sales strategies and approaches from a persuasion. Coercion.I will, I will. And as I'm addressing that, what I'd like to speak into isthat whether you wanted to or not, most decisions are going to be madesubconsciously or unconsciously. This is a pretty trite metaphor, but if youimagine an iceberg as a metaphor for human consciousness, we know only 15%or so of the iceberg is showing above the surface. The rest of it is takingplace on the unconscious level. So whether you know it or not, you'regoing to be addressing the unconscious anyway. You may as well structured in away that helps the other person. I have a radically different definition ofselling to me. Selling is not about necessarily getting your ideas and theother person's mind. It's about expanding their mind to include choicesthey didn't know were there and getting them off of their autopilot. Firstresponse. Their autopilot. First...

...response to being angry or feeling selfrighteous. Now, more directly address your question. Here's my distinctionbetween Well, let me back up or go to the side a little bit hypnosis. If yourview of hypnosis is about controlling other people making them bark like adog or do things against their will. That's not what I'm talking about, thatstage tricks. I've never done that. I've used it for influence and forhealing. What's not in my biography that I think you got? As I've done alot of healing work for men who are very scared of relationships, I've donea lot of healing work. So to me coercion and manipulation, which is notwhat I do, involves a few of the following things. Number one lyingabout facts saying the car does 60 MPG when it only does 30 concealingmaterial facts saying that your company is really doing well. But in fact yourstock is dropping like a lead falcon trying to fly, pushing down on people'spain. But their shame, their guilt, their fear and finally, coercion. Do itor I'm going to harm you in some way. That, to me, is not any. Whatinfluenced persuasion about influenced persuasion is simply about that processof selling someone on a decision that serves them and what I want to pointout again. And this is said with respect, most of your prospects justdon't know how to make a good decision or they're extremely conflicted aroundit. People do not come to you with a blank slate. People did not come to youcertainly in the super positive state, sure themselves, knowing that theydeserve what you have to offer. And also, this is the biggest challenge.People are just not focused anymore. We live in the age, uh, instant messagingthis thing. I'm holding up my iPhone. For those of you who are listening,there's instagram LinkedIn tender. Not that I know anything about tender, youunderstand, So people are distracted and they just don't have the focus. Soyou need to learn to create those states to focus very quickly. Yeah. Ialso like you're just harkening back a few minutes there to the idea ofopening up someone's perspective and allowing them to know that there arechoices and decisions that maybe even went on the table before. I really likethe way you broke that down. I think your definition of of manipulation isone that anyone should be able to relate to and respect. I think it'sfantastic. Give me a quick go on this one. You know, we are talking in asales context. We're talking about subtle words that sell. Of course, um,if you were to be a subscriber to Dan, Pink's idea of sales is that everyoneis in sales that we all need to influence and persuade words that youjust used. We all need to influence and persuade open up people's minds twochoices and decisions, whether they're transactional, buying decisions orwhether there are other decisions to be made. I just wanted to broaden thisconversation a minute and share with me your thoughts on talking about, youknow, prospects, customers, sales versus sales as persuasion andinfluence. I don't think they're contradictory.They're not at all. I don't see them as because you used the word with respect.You use the word versus I don't think they're in any way adverse to oneanother. They're the same thing. The question is, are you going to do it ina clumsy way? Are you going to do it in a high pressure way? Are going to do itin a stale way? Or here's the thing in a way where your prospects have heardit before. Here's Here's the thing a tactic identified as a tactic diffusethe tactic that won't work. One of the reasons why I say in my book. So thewords that sell the old, worn out scripts assume closes, tag questions.It insults your prospects. Intelligence,...

...because they've heard it before. It'snot that I'm saying to you. Look, what I have will replace everything you havein your sales process. If you have a sales process that's working for yougreat. And if you add in what I have to teach, it'll turbo charge it, and itwill allow you to gradually drop the old stuff. People have heard it before,over and over and over. May I give you a metaphor? Yes, please. Oh, quite sometime ago, I was pulled over by a motorcycle police officer, and thefirst thing I said is I did it. I'm guilty. I went against the light. I'llpay that. Fine. Please, just give me the ticket. And he gave me a look. Hesaid license. He took my insurance on my information and he came back and hesaid, You know what? You didn't be asked me with a story. I'm gonna giveyou a break you get it? So when we don't be s our prospects when we don'tbs our customers when we present something because we're presentingsomething they've never heard before. The motorcycle cop here is the sameexcuses. After two months on the job, everyone gives them the same excuses.Your customers and prospects have a unique paradox in them. I kept talkingabout paradox will keep introducing this idea. Number one. They're moresophisticated than ever because they're bombarded with more sales messages and,yeah, right, on the other hand, there dumbed down and numbed out by TV andoverwhelming the rest of it. So you have to be able to juggle those twothings. Is that making sense to describe it? Was that responsive toyour question? Totally. Yeah. So let's, uh, let's get into subtle words thatsell. You've already given us a really nice pass on we share together. Um,what are some other? From a practical standpoint, you know, I'm sure peoplethat are with us at this point in the conversation had some appreciation forwe share and together, and they may want to hear a little bit more. Whatare a few more kind of key ideas here. Well, the key idea is first andforemost. Whatever you can get, your prospect to imagine for themselveswould be perceived as being their own thought, and therefore they will notresist it. So if you can learn to be, how can I put this? If you can learn tobe sufficiently vague in your language and this is an advanced training, Inormally don't give this to my beginning students. But if I said toyou, for example, if I were selling real estate and remember, I'm notselling real estate, No one is. We're always selling decisions and goodfeelings about decisions. If I said before I go through our marketing plantogether, I know that you're really going to like the homes we've gotbecause there are over 3000 square feet their value appreciates by 15% a year,and I'm sure that you're going to be very satisfied with what it is I'mgoing to present. So let's get going. Oh, by the way, ask questions if youhave them. I want to say something like, as we're exploring this together today,I'm not sure at which point you might find yourself growing more and moreinterested in what it is you're learning. We're learning together. Butas that's taking place, feel free to ask the questions that naturally arisewhen a great decisions being made. Now that's very vague. I didn't say whatthey're going to get excited about, did I? Nope. I don't know. We're exploringsomething together, right? I didn't say what points. They're going to getexcited. I didn't say what getting excited. Looks like them too. It lookslike for them is that they imagine themselves in the home. I didn't say it.I said something more clever. I used what I called unconscious communicationwords or transports. I said, Find yourself. What does it mean to findyourself doing something? Did you ever just find yourself reaching for therefrigerator and you don't even remember walking up to it? And youdon't even remember what it was you...

...wanted? You're just looking your headin. Do you ever just find yourself falling in love? Yes, you did. You everfind yourself falling out of love and thinking, What the heck was I thinking?Sure, I'm sure we all have. So those kind of automatic subconsciousbehaviors. When you put in those words, discover yourself. Find yourself. Icall them trance phrases or unconscious communication words, and they implysomething. It's going to take place automatically. You don't have to makeany efforts, and you don't need to resist because it's going to happen ina way where it's of service to you. These little things, just simplephrases like this can take what you're already doing. You don't need to dropyour existing cells process and turbo charge it. What are counter examples? Ilove counter examples, so counter examples are a example of the broadercategory of communication called pattern interrupt. You see peoplebehave, think, feel and predictable patterns. When you interrupt thatpattern, they become temporarily suggestible and you can lead them. Thisis something taken from classical hypnotherapy. The father of modernhypnotherapy, Dr Milton Erickson would often do. Pattern interrupts on clients,and during that period that windows suggest ability. He could suggest newbehaviors, so counter examples from my favorites. Let's say someone says, Ineed to think it over roleplay with me, so I'm not so sure. Paul, I need tothink it over. Great. I understand, is it okay if I ask you a question? Sure.Have you ever taken a long time to think something over? And it stillturned out to be the wrong decision I have. Maybe it's not about time, butabout the clarity you need to recognize. You really do want to move forward. So,thinking about it like that, why don't we explore together what it is youreally need to recognize? Yes, this is a good choice. So let's go through it.Share your questions with me or your concerns so we can clear them up. Andyou can take that step today. You hear the suggestions? Take that step today,move forward, make a great decision. Absolutely. And and to me, the mostpowerful thing was just taking time off the table. Time is a pat excuse.Exactly, exactly. That's exactly the advanced training I would give tosomeone who now decides become my student. We're reframing it from beingabout time, which you can't get out of that into making about clarity. Andwe're also using the power of suggestion to logically link once theyget the clarity than they will move forward through the power of suggestion.and oftentimes, by the way, I need more time. It's a smokescreen because yourprospect doesn't want to say I'm too confused to understand it. That wouldmake them with dump in this world to themselves, not just to you but tothemselves. And they don't want to tell that story to themselves. Right? Sothis gives them a way to save face. It reframes what it's about. And throughthe clever use of suggestion, it links getting the clarity to making thedecision. I'm telling you, I get I cannot convey the power of this simply.Do you feel my excitement and my passion coming through at doing this?Yes. And I see it as well. Yeah, I know. I love doing this. So I absolutely,transparently to your audience. I I had a very difficult morning because ofthings going on with my family. And I said to you, Don't worry about it. Thisgives me relief from all of that and I'll give you a great show. How am Idoing so far? Very good. Thank you. Yeah, I like that call back to thebeginning. I can, you know. Yes, it's great. So neural linguistic programmingwhen I see you know, when I see NLP, I think of a natural language processing,and I think about computers trying to understand human language and thesubtleties and variants. But of course,...

...that's not what this is. This is neurallinguistic programming, but I don't know anything about it. Tell me alittle bit about it. Cool. Well, there's an old joke about two rabbis.If you put I'm Jewish, I can say this. But if you to put two rabbis in theroom and ask them a question, you'll get 50 opinions. So put to an L peersin the room and ask What is NLP? You'll get 50 opinions. This is only my model,my map having used it for over 32 years and seeing great results and greatresults for my clients. NLP is former foremost about two things. First andforemost, it's a map, a technology for modeling excellence, for looking atsomeone who does something, well, extracting out the different elementsof that excellence and then teaching other people to take it on. The secondthing, I believe it is the study of how language structures, consciousness,shapes, decisions and drives behavior That's the second thing it's about. Andthe third thing is, it's a set of presuppositions about human beings work.It's a map. It's not necessarily true. For example, one of the presuppositions of NLP is people do the best behavior that they have at thetime. People always try to do their best. It's not that there's somethingwrong with people. Just maybe, their map of possibilities is off. Or, as Isay, they're on autopilot. I have this teaching that I think is unique to me,that the brain the mind works on repetition. Familiar, very familiararid familiarity. Excuse me and momentum. So when you go to change anarea of life that's difficult, your old patterns are thinking they're going tocome up not because you hate yourself for your this thing called the selfsabotage, but simply because they come up because they have momentum. And soNLP is a recognition of looking at all these processes and the technology fordoing so. And then, finally, there's a persuasion model of an L. P. How to usethese things for influence and persuasion. And how did you Is this aformal field of study How do you know how you know? How does this plug intothe work that you do? From a practical standpoint? Well, let me. That's threequestions. There's NLP trainings you can take. I think most of the trainingsare pretty much bollocks. My British friends would say Not that they don'toffer useful stuff, but there's what I call the seminar phenomenon. Whensomeone comes into a seminar, they're raising their hand and self selectingand saying Yes, yes, I wanted to work on me. Please let it work on me. I paidmy money. I've taken the time out for travel. I'm getting all the time. Thisevent? Yes, Yes, it's gonna work on me. But what works in the seminar wherepeople are volunteering and wanted to work nationally? I mean, it's gonnatranslate out into the real world anymore than karate that you practicein a dojo is gonna win a street fight. So I looked at all of this and Ithought, Okay, how can I extract that? What actually works. So I tested it andtested it in different sales situations, and I also used to be a dating coach.So I help guys get over their fears, using it and to communicate in a waythat was very attractive. That's not in my bio, but it's a very unique way, andso that's how I begin to apply it. And then I began to teach it and found thatpeople from virtually any field at any point in their sales process, whetherthey were veterans or newbies or somewhere in between could really upwhat they were doing and also make sales more enjoyable. Look, I thinksales can and ought to be joyful. Yeah, I think when done well, it should bethat way. Almost anything that we have some level of comfort or excitementabout, and certainly mastery in general would give us a little bit of that. Andthe parallels to dating in sales are many, I'm sure. Well, you know a datefundamentally as the sale, you've got...

...to get yourself all ready withconfidence. You've got to look for leads. You've got to set an appointmentwith the prospect. You've got to get report, do your process. Forgive me. Idon't need to be rude. Close the deal and then handle objections and handle alot of notes. Yeah. And discovery and other decision makers that you may ormay not know or even in the sales. Well, yeah, You just taught me something.Come to think of it. Yes, that's true. Yeah, right. Well, that her friend isnot on board with this idea. You know that kind of thing? Boy Neurallinguistic programming. When you're working with folks who primarilyhelping people identify their own patterns or to recognize them and otherpeople, some of both, both both absolutely both. I'll do some freecoaching here just for the heck of it. Just to demonstrate my prowess and tobrag. One of the things that pretty much creates instant change and theskin is the power of language. People come to me and say I just can't closethe big money clients. I give them three magic words to destroy thoselimiting beliefs. Here they are. You're ready? Ready out there and podcast land.Up until now, we up until now it was the case. I didn't have the skills toclose the big money clients. It takes the limitation. It acknowledges thatthat it was real. So we get report with the unconscious mind. But it binds itin time. It says it was true up until this binds it in time, and it alsoseparates it from who you are as a person. You see, when it comes tochanging beliefs, it's relatively easy to change beliefs about capability,possibility. But changing beliefs about identity is really difficult, so it'sbetter to just disconnect the whole thing from your sense of identity inthe first place. I love it. It reminds me of I I I In fact, I just had a niceexchange about this on Linked in. I've been incorporating into some of thepresentations. I give a little passage on the power of yet because a lot ofpeople, when they come to us again at Bom Bom will make it easy to record andsend video messages. There's something more challenging for a lot of people tohave a recording of the video to send to someone else or to share to someoneelse than, say, doing a live back and forth video like this because they canplay it back and judge it and all these other things. And so I wind up havingto do some of this kind of motivational work that I'm sure you would probablybe able to really peel into. But I talk about the power of yet, and what I'mdoing is kin to up until now. But I'm putting it at the end. It's like, youknow, I'm not the kind of person that records videos and sends them to all ofmy past clients yet right? Let me suggest that if you introduce it, ifyou do your process, but just move it to the beginning because of them, itreframes the entire conversation rather than waiting to the end. Correct. It'sthose little tweaks in an already good sales process. I mean this I have in myclass forward back there, a list of my ideal clients and one of the thingsabout my ideal clients is they already have a successful sales process,because I I am the most expensive coach will ever be glad you worked with. Andso I only deal with people who are already successful, and that means theyalready have a successful sales process. But just adding in little tweets likethat, you can see you can see how it makes a profound difference Yeah, Givejust give me a little bit of a kind of Paul Ross at a high level or a historiclevel. I I can see. Or I get the sense that you're layering interests andskills on top of one another for yourself. And then, obviously you'vedeveloped skills to teach them to other people in a in a way that makes sensefrom coaching people who have issues that limit them from buildingrelationships with other people to...

...obviously a sales process, which Iwould assume probably pays a little bit more. Maybe because because the R. O Iis so much more obvious. Uh, but, you know, where were you 25 years ago? Like,how did you stack these kinds of interests? How much of it was personalinterest and curiosity? It was much of it. It was it was both. And here's thefunny thing how I first got interested in applying this to sales. I firststarted doing this as a dating coach, and I started to get emails. The peoplewould send me beautiful emails attached, picturing of their wife or picturing oftheir first kids and saying, Thank you so much. You helped me meet the womanof my dreams. I never would have had the confidence or the communicationskills. But then around 2005, I started to get an email saying, Hey, I'm withmy wife, Thank you. She's everything I ever dreamed of, and I've been usingyour stuff for selling and it's really working. So I got I would get thesepeople on the phone, interrogate them and began to see what they had incomments. So I began to take my first pops at translating this into intosales, and I get groups of beta testers together and go out and use this. Goout and use this. Go out and use this until I began to see really goodresults for everybody so smart. Absolutely it does are two things Iespecially love about it. The first is, um, that you did customer interviews toto understand more about this trend that you're identifying, which ofcourse, is the critical to success in general and specifically to improvingthe experience you create and deliver for customers. But then also it harkensback to that question that I asked awkwardly and apparently used the wordversus while I was doing a long set up to the question of it just validatesthis idea of to sell as human that we're all selling and influencing andpersuading all of the time. And so I love that it that you started there andand came into well, believe me. Believe me, teaching sales is a lot easier thanI thought, guys who are 40 years old and never had a date. So if you thinkabout that, you're really dealing with some very, very psychologicalchallenges, if not to say Brokenness. So if I can teach people like that howto reach their dreams, then I can take people who are already successful. AndI already have a good degree of confidence and really take them to thestratosphere, which is what I love. It's not that I don't I want to helpeveryone. I just don't have the time. It's not financially feasible to helpeveryone who's anyone can grab the book subtle words itself. It's 14 bucks 15bucks on Amazon. Yeah, and then that speaks a bit to your ideal clients aswell. You want to take healthy situations and make them even better,Better I want to take people who are stars and make them superstars. It'sfantastic. I really appreciate the work that you're doing. This is really,really interesting. I love it. I want to go. I want to get at least five moreof those 50 definitions of of neural linguistic programming. Uh, for folksthat have enjoyed this conversation, kind of the some of the themes andtopics we've been into. I've got a couple more episodes of this podcast Iknow you'll enjoy. Back on Episode 47 with Brian Robinson, who wrote a bookcalled The Selling Formula. We titled that episode asking better salesquestions for greater sales success. And it was that it wasn't asspecifically psychologically oriented, although certainly his approach toconversation would be kin here. And I think your your definitions of selling,I think if the two of you connected would be would be similar as well andepisodes. His name's Brian Robinson and, uh, he he does some teaching, wrote thebook selling formula. He also has a VP of partnerships job at a company calledWorks Works 24 I think, and then on an episode 51 Joe Caprio who at the timewas VP of sales. Of course, he's now the co founder of a new softwarecompany called Draperies. We call that how to enable your sales team Practicaltips for sales leaders That was more of...

...a traditional sales enablementconversation. But obviously what we're talking about here is investing indeveloping equipping salespeople to be more effective at what they're tryingto do every day. And Paul, I think you did a very nice job. I love this. Ilove this. I love this. I wish I could do this for another couple hours. Cool.Well, OK, just well extended a couple more minutes. What is something thatyou you know, something that you wish. People that are listening at this pointthere obviously, into the conversation they're into you and the things thatyou think and teach because they've been with us to this point. What issomething I haven't asked you that you generally find that a you enjoy talkingabout or be people find very helpful or see people find very provocative any ofthe a B or C Wow. Something you haven't shared yet That you would like to. Iguess is the is the short take. That's a really good question. As far asprovocative. I am a disruptor. I think a lot of what I say is provocative. Iwill example say that if I'm in a group of people who are pretending aboutsales and this was back when we could speak live before the virus hit us all,I would say that it's okay to be very suggestible and to lead your clients tothe decisions that work for them. But I would really lean on the suggestiblepart, and I would say to people, If you're not using suggestion, thenyou're suggesting that you're not a good leader, so that kind of confusespeople. If you're not using suggestion, then you're suggesting that you're nota good leader. So I like to confuse people, and I don't like to confusepeople. I like to challenge your way of thinking by creating paradox again inParadox series power. When you hear something that seemingly contradictory,it's a sign that the old paradigm is falling apart and also you quitediplomatically left out one word that haven't recovered my plug. And so Ilike to use Yiddish idiom I was raised Jewish, and my parents spoke Yiddish atthe table, so I often will throw in colorful metaphors from Yiddish thatsome people don't want at at their group trainings or any of the rest ofit. I'm not for everybody. I can tell you that I control my mouth, as you cansee. But I would say I'm not for everybody. Okay, Um, so relationshipsPaula, our number one core value here. And so before I let you go and beforeyou tell people where they can connect with you, learn more about the book.Learn more about subtle words, Excel, et cetera. I would love to give you thechance to give a thank or mentioned as someone who's had a positive impact onyour life for your career. And were you to give a mention or a shout out or anod to a brand or a company that you really respect or appreciation for theway they deliver for you as a customer? Well, actually, the person has had thebiggest influence on me. I've been very lucky to have great teachers. Greatmentors was my mother. May she rest in peace. My mother taught me to be anindependent thinker, not to be afraid of offending or disrupting people'sother ideas. My mom once said to me when I was sassing her like eight yearsold, she shook her finger at me and said, Listen, kid, if you don't knockit off, you're going to become an economy class I said, What's that, Mom?He said that someone who goes around knocking over other people's sacredidols and ideas. I thought, Yes, I want to be in economy class So my mom hadthe most. I've had great teachers. I don't put them down. But my mom reallyinfluenced my way of thinking to think outside the box. What was your secondone? A company or a brand that you really appreciate that you are acustomer of, And they do a great job serving you. I've been using FedExeither as an employee or as an entrepreneur and business owner. Since1984 85. FedEx and thousands of experiences has maybe let me down, andthat's when I use one of their contractors. FedEx Ground FedEx hasbeen absolutely amazing. They still...

...deliver on their core promise uponwhich they built their business when it absolutely, positively has to get thereovernight. And they've been great. I love FedEx. Awesome. I have not heardthat one before. And that reliability? I mean, how many times would you sayyou've tested the system? Hundreds, thousands, thousands, thousands. Andyou? Can you think of one or two failures in two, maybe three tops?That's that's customer service. Yeah, and I'm sure they recovered. Well, I don't recall. I'll tell you the truth.Sure, that's a very, very high success rate. Paul, this has been awesome. Ireally enjoyed the conversation very much. And, uh, and folks are listeningat this moment, I know they have as well. So if they want to take thisfarther, if they want to connect with you online or learn more about yourwork, where would you send people to follow up? Well, here's what you can do.You can jump if if you already have a six. And again, I'm just selective. Imean, no disrespect to anybody. If you already have the successful, like sixor even seven for your business, you've got a sales process that's working.You're already a star. I want to be a superstar, you can arrange for adiscovery call. Here's the thing about 30 to 40% of the time on these calls,I'll just give you one tweak and you can go off on your merry way. And so Ithink it has value. Based on that, you can hear how I'm a good coach just here.So it's easy to do. They run anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes. Just go toSpeaker Paul ross dot com that speaker Paul ross dot com forward slashdiscovery Speaker Paul ross dot com forward slash discovery and we'll jumpon and we'll have a look at what you're doing. And again, oftentimes it's justa couple of tweets and you can be off on your merry way. Awesome. I will. Iwill link up your website. I'll link up the Discovery page for folks who arelistening again. We do roundups of these at bom bom dot com slash podcast.And of course, you can subscribe in your favorite player. Appreciate you somuch for listening. And Paul, I love it coming and spending some time with us.I love it. Thank you. Thank you. It's been my great pleasure to be someonewho can share together all these things where you can find yourself making useof them as you move forward today and into your wonderful future. Up untilnow, that's something I share with Paul. Ross had historically done it bytacking the word yet on to the end of a statement. We need these beliefs inorder to stay in a posture of learning and growth. If you want to learn frommore interesting experts like Paul Ross, check out the customer experiencepodcast. You can learn more by visiting bomb bomb dot com slash podcast or bysearching the customer experience podcast in your preferred podcastplayer. You'll know you've got the right one when you see the orange tile,the customer experience podcast. My name is Ethan Butte. I am your host,and I appreciate you so much. Thank you for listening to the C X Series here onB two b Growth. Are you on LinkedIn? That's a stupidquestion. Of course you're on LinkedIn here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in onthe platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there.Sometimes it's a funny gift for me Other times, it's a micro video or aslide deck, and sometimes it's just a regular old status update that sharestheir unique point of view on B two B marketing leadership or their jobfunction. We're posting this content through their personal profile, not ourcompany page, and it would warm my heart and soul. If you connected witheach of our evangelists, we'll be adding more down the road. But for now,you should connect with Bill. Read our CEO, Kelcy Montgomery, our creativedirector. Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth. Logan Lyles, ourdirector of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot offun on linked in pretty much every single day, and we'd love for you to bea part of it.

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