B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1697 · 5 months ago

Your Next Move is in the Data, with Garrett Scott

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to Garrett Scott Head of Marketing Growth & Demand Gen at Calendly.

Calendly has a vast array of users and large numbers of users across different fields and titles. How do they use data to determine their ICP? How do you balance serving everyone, while also going deep into some niches? Today, Garrett explains.

Hey be to be growth listeners. We want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to be tob growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars, plus the first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B number two letter be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to enter, and look forward to hearing from you conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be tob growth, this is B tob growth, coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and joining me from Nashville, Tennessee director of growth at sweet fish, Dan Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, our creative content lead, Emily Brady. Welcome into be tob growth, y'all. Thanks, Bengie. Excited to be here. Dan just silently smiling and looking it's fun to get to chat about things that are current in and around marketing and in the news and I'm going to go ahead and bring something today before we jump to an interview I recently did. I want to talk about CNN plus and been kind of paying attention to what they were trying for a while now and had my opinions on it and listen to a lot of people with opinions on it. But I think it actually really does just come back to a conversation around content. So CNN plus, as of April thirty, is basically going to be no more...

...and is no more. So it's pretty abrupt the way they announced it. It kind of it didn't leak, but it just it's like all right, sweet, we're done, and in a matter of like a week. And they poured millions of dollars into this thing. And so what sparks my interest around it is from a content perspective, the play never really resonated with me at all. Why would you put specific shows that aren't even really news shows behind a pay wall when people think of a certain type of brand, when they think of CNN anyway? So you're just trying to get into this already pretty crowded streaming war space and you're coming out with content that doesn't really resonate with your core ICEP. So I don't know what your guys's initial thoughts are on the news, but to me it was almost like a when is this going to die, not when is this going to thrive? I was just kind of waiting for this to drop and I think it showcases how these big media companies still don't understand so much about content creation and they're sort of feels like the lights are off and they're just like hoping that they strike gold instead of actually, I don't know, I don't know, like we have money, will put it behind a streaming service in like our content will work because we are CNN or put if I mean you could fill in the blank. There's several other ones out there that I'm looking at going that's I don't think that's going to work. That's not going to be around a year, two years from now. But what are the initial thoughts? Emily, I'll throw it to you first. When you had you followed CNNPLUS at all as this what are you thinking? I'm going to be honest, I haven't followed it at all, but I think it's to your point of like, I don't care about the brand anyways, and so it just makes me think of like if you have a lovable brand like Disney, like sure I would pay for Disney plus to get extra content, but if your brand is CNN or,...

...frankly, like any news for me, then why would I pay for more of something that I already don't consume? So there's that and I think you do have to have I don't know if they just weren't being strategic enough, they don't know their audience well enough, because when I think of them, I don't feel like they would have any raving fans that are like I need more of this. Well, let alone cooking shows they were doing, parenting shows they were throwing and other news out are doing this too. Like I saw Fox is making a big play into crime, and so they're doing like more investigative crime type shows. But that's interesting to me because I would totally go elsewhere for that. There are plenty of other like free platforms that I could go find that stuff. So I don't know, maybe they just weren't reading the room, but it's also it also speaks to the point of like don't just jump on trends just because everyone else is doing it having success with it. Like there's a reason that those other companies are having success with it. So those are my initial thoughts. Well, in the question is are how successful are they? Because we have seen to like Netflix just had a thirty, forty percent drop in their stock because the numbers were down. We are even they were. They underestimated the success of Disney plus. So you brought up Disney and we actually don't really know, like with apple and Disney like, how much they're bleeding when it comes to money that they're throwing into this content stuff. Disney's in a great position because they had a back catalog so full of things that already strike at the heart of those that like they want more and they already have it, whereas a Netflix or in Netflix was like the the one before. So they have had time. When you go to like something along the lines of these other streaming services where they're creating content over in a bubble and you have to pay more to get access to it, you see loss of finance, which apple probably doesn't care about as much. They're just in the content game and will build it over time. But...

Dan, what are your thoughts here? I think like having the reoccurring revenue models just so attractive, but there's other ways to do it and I think what they didn't realize is, like people don't like to pay for news as much as they used to like. It used to be common for people to pay for their news paper subscription and once digital came it's kind of like news is just kind of free. I don't pay for any news related anything. I just go to a site and maybe there's like, Oh, you have to be a subscriber to read this article. I just skip the article and go find it on somewhe other. Someone else has covered it from that angle on some other site. It's so easy to get news for free. Why the heck would I pay for it? There's an abundance, such an abundance of Free News that I do what most people do and you just kind of scan all the headlines and read one or two articles. And when I say read, I mean scan, because there's such an abundance of it. So why would I pay for it? It would be valuable. Is Limited, but I kind of see a strong value proposition is offering something valuable that's equally appealing and exclusive. Oxygen highly appealing, but it's not exclusive. If it was, you could charge a lot of money for it. If you're drowning right, you'd pay your whole life savings for it. But and then trying to offer something. I know they've bundled lots of things into it, but it just wasn't enough. The value proposition was as strong enough. where I think they should have done is actually just gone and built like their own companies, like probably a strong generic B Toc company like daily wire just launched their own razor to compete with Ries and sold like eightyzero subscriptions within a week. That's a freaking right there. Like CNN could have done the same thing. It just launched their own businesses. And I actually for all my senses, is a b Tob podcast. I think that's the opportunity for most be tob marketing right now. Build an audience, not so you can monetize it with ads, like CNN has to, but your business becomes the point of monetization. So all the creators are trying to figure out how to build the business, which is hard. You've already got the business. Build the audience.

Mr Beast is doing the same thing. You just really just started a chocolate bar company. I forgot what he calls probably beast bar or something, but like you can go on buy his fancy chocolate bars and he's probably going to make a lot of money off that. His Burger ventures already been doing very well and all the other products these start and offer. Because he has audience, he can sell products that are tailor made for that audience. I love that point about audience. I think when it comes to news, specifically ground news. It's an APP, but it shows you across left leaning and right leaning news outlets, where how different stories are reported and it puts them all next to each other and it shows you their headlines next to each other. So people pay a premium for that to see where their potential blind spots are, for where they fall, because they're accomplishing something that these other things aren't and they're they're putting a bunch of content all in one place in their sourcing it for you instead of you have me to go out and do it all separately. I also think when I think of a podcast like breaking points. I know they were the hosts of that podcast were on Rogan and that helped them blow up and helped their podcast, but they were also in some traditional news places before and then they did exactly what you said, Dan. They built an audience and their podcast is free, but that they do things beyond that because they have an audience for patreon supporters and those that will go the extra mile for them because they care about their specific voice. That's I think we're legacy media has judged wrong. Just because you have a lot of TV's on and it makes viewers look like they're high in a traditional TV model, doesn't mean they're willing to follow you anywhere or everywhere else. I think there's a lot of implications to marketing in general and be to be marketing and how we think of the content that we're creating. But the importance of building an...

...audience and it just shines so brightly in a story like this. Attention is the new currency. I've been listening to interviews. I've been on a kick. I usually go on kicks for all find like a creator or thought leader that I like and then I'll listen to everything or read everything they've ever written. Right now I've been going into a cody Sanchez, who's a woman that's killing it as far as building her newsletter subscription. So she has a large newsletter and of course she has info, products and all kinds of things that you can buy. But something she said that's really resonating with me recently is that audience is the new point of leverage. It used to be it went from capital to tech and now it's becoming audience. Those who have the audience have the leverage. Or CNN has leverage because they have an audience. They just didn't quite leverage it right. And that's the question. How will you? Disney has the kind of content that we're used to paying for. We're used to paying for movies. So and I can't get those freaking movies anywhere else. I mean I guess I could go rent them on Youtube or four bucks apiece, but if you're renting any amount of movies from Youtube or Amazon then you might as well just go and get the subscription for it, because within two movies, you rent to two movies in a month. Oh, you've already paid for your subscription. Right. So Disney's and a sweet spot and of course they have a whole business model to monetize the heck out of all that like as that's why I love Disney as a business case. You're like, AH, it's a marketers dream come true. They're so good, but different models for different folks. See and and could a hit it big with something else. It'll be interesting and I'll definitely be paying attention to where this moves from here. There was a breakaway from all traditional and now everyone's kind of in this pick and choose model where you have to decide what streaming services you're going to just take on monthly, right. And now it seems there's a consolid station where, okay, what can we bundle together? Even...

...verizon like gives you Disney plus for three months. All sorts of bundles happening to get those subscribers to those different places, and I think we'll just see more consolidation and more pushback. Even in the as Netflix approaches twenty dollars a month, there's going to be some fascinating conversations because we're starting to hit a price point where you're going to see people rebel in the market. Well, this is a fun chat and if you're not paying attention to it, pay attention to what's going on in streaming because you can think of content over there in the same way we think of content in the be tob space and it just helps us be better marketers and it expands our our horizons a little bit. So it's fun to watch. Today my conversation is with Garrett Scott. He is the head of Marketing, growth and demand Jin at callendly. This is a fun conversation with a fast growing company that is serving so many customers and he has a background that we can learn a lot from. And they are doing so much over at Calindley that we all find fascinating, right, because it's an APP we've all had to interact with. Garrett Scott was a fun person to interview and have on the show. Let's jump into this conversation. Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and today I am grateful to be joined by Garrett Scott. He is the head of Marketing, growth and demand Jin at calendly. Garrett, thank you for joining us today. Yeah, I've been GIE happy to be here, fun to have you on the show. Let's start with this, Garrett. Just give us peek behind the curtain, if you would, maybe high level, like what is it that you're working on day to day, Garrett, and some of the work at county that you do. Yeah, the...

...day to day is is all about the growth for county. We are growing like a weed and so it's really focus on augmenting are hugely successful plg model and and bringing on that sales led side of the house. So getting systems data, yeah, funnel work, all the fun parts about growth at our countly scale. Yeah, lots that we can glean from today and learn from. So excited to pick your brain a little bit. Let's go here first, because we're going to end up discussing like ICP and specific lessons you've learned, but I kind of want to just throw like a mini curveball at you. I know you have a lot of interest in passion around online marketing and advertising, from maybe it's paid search to social. I mean you're all over the map. So do you have a tool and APP? Maybe it's a social strategy that you're nerding out on right now. Yeah, I'm sure the if they listen, they'll be happy to get a shout out. Working with a company called endgame dot Io Right and they are sort of reimagining or helping companies with a huge plg database see into it for marketing. I describe it to to our sales leader sort of like the predictively and scoring of yesteryear with, you know, within for and sixth sense, where they were really looking at your sales force data. But these folks and their competitors are looking at your product database, your day of warehouse and helping you understand folks who aren't making it to sales force, right. So we actually just signed with them. So we're nerding out pretty hard. Yeah, a great, great group of people over there and certainly with ten million plus people in a database, it's hard to see what's going on. So we are. We're excited for what might come there. So that's probably the the latest nerd world that I'm in. Well, it's cool. Let's start with a shout out, and it references. I mean, got a very large database, and that's that makes things complicated to a certain extent. Right. It's nice to have that type of problem, but there's also sorts of complexities that come along with it, and so behind the scenes, you guys have undergone a lot of work...

...around ICEP over the past couple of years. Take me back to two thousand and nineteen, two thousand and twenty, and we're calendarly was at when it came to ICEP. At that time, like what were you guys thinking? And Yeah, so openly I wasn't. I wasn't there, but I know a lot about it. You so, like most pelg companies and products like can only previous one for quip. That's solve a horizontal problem. You're solving horizontal problems, right. And so in two thousand and nineteen, two thousand and twenty from it was very much the super successful solving the nightmare of back and forth emails, right and starting to release features built for teams, which there's a ton of now, but really letting the the product sell itself. Marketing was almost non existent, very, very small. Sales was very transactional s more like a sales assist motion, which was great for coin only. It's super, super efficient, but wasn't specifically going after a sales buyer or a recruiting buyer or those revops and demand Gen folks, because, quite frankly, we didn't need to wear the game move. So how does that differ from like where you are now, and and what was that evolution from? Okay, we, you know, didn't need to to. Obviously there's a lot. It's a lot more involved now. When you fast forward and the growth and continues. Yeah, you know, it's certainly more evolved now. I think the pandemic had a lot to do with with it. You know, scheduling links and just trying to get ahold of people in the in the remote world has has progressed dramatically and I think what's really important as a cow and leaf as a product has progressed dramatically. Right. It's way more than just a scheduling link. It is built for teams to use to get things like shared availability, you know, round Robins, those types of meetings and...

...events. It's built for that and when you start to solve those problems, you start to understand use cases and then you can tell the director of an str team, don't you want to book meetings instead of just having leads? Right, so your demandin and your sc our leaders can move even faster to prospect and so it allows us to tell the unique stories that a much more sophisticated product like calm they is tell those as unique benefit statements and value props. You know, we had a mantree equiply, if if you tell a horizontal story, if you try to tell somebody that you're doing everything for everybody, you end up telling nobody anything. And you know, the scary thing is if you do tell a specific story and somebody who doesn't fall into that specific story sees it there like Oh, that's not for me. But a strong marketing team, a good marketing team, a good product, gets around that because you target them, you know who they are and you give them the right message as well. So it's scary to say, Hey, we're just going to go talk to sales leaders, are recruiting leaders, but a well tuned marketing machine, certainly in the digital world that we have, can target everybody with specific messaging right and use the technology right. I love tools, as evidence by the current nerding out. But yeah, talk to me a little bit about the bounce. Are Right, because you have people that are just are they know the cow only brand, the name, they're coming to the site, they're checking it out. Maybe it's like an individual user versus then you're also going like we have all this traffic, I guess is almost how I would say, and you're trying to figure out how do I take all this traffic, all this data that we have to get a real picture of potential zep, how like where we're going to actually drill down, because you're right, is scary with that much traffic. Like, don't break something that's working like and you didn't break it in any way. You're continuing to grow. But just talk to me a little bit about how that that...

...process and how you guys are thinking about it. Yeah, no, that's a great question and something we are actually dealing with every day and it goes back to sort of my original remit and charter when I started, which was not to change the PLG fly wheel, the pelg motion that is so successful that countly, but to augment it. Right, you know, it's or marketers. So we were good with words. So it's how do we how do we find give the right message to the right person at the right time, which is what every marketer will always say. But with the modern digital stack it's a little bit harder now with in GDP are cookie compliance and whatnot. But we are really leaning into personalization, using first party data to understand who our users are and not just present one one site or one page to each person. Right, if you're coming from a well targeted ad campaign, we should give you that well targeted you know, and customized experience on the website too, and then follow it up with with with emails and whatnot. So we're really focusing on that personalization aspect because so much of our traffic are those individual and users who want to solve the terrible scheduling nightmare out there. And so let's let's not interrupt that, but we we do have solutions for for enterprise class customers. Right. We are the only SSO compliant company, I believe, really only SSO compliant one. So we have to get that out there. But we don't want to scare off the consultant make with a side Hustle who's charging stripes through their counly. It's a difficult bounce and we're tiptoeing, I should say. Yeah, you talk about the Tiptoe. There the tension I wanted. Did you guys like pick certain verticals are going to go after first when you're doing something like this, or what is that kind of look like in order to establish okay, we're we want to pick where to jump in the water? Yeah, obviously some of it's done day to plays a huge part into it. You know who the buyers are that we...

...that we're seeing, but you know also just what's the Tan and how candidly, how easy is the story to tell, because so many, you know, so many people do know can only as the scheduling tool, but with how easily can we tell the story that we are much more than that? And so we took the obvious route. The the sales revenue teams at companies are the by far the biggest market out there. You know, their scheduling, meeting with external folks constantly. Here they're receiving requests, right, you know what used to be lead forms, but now it's just book directly us and kind only embedded on their website, and so that makes the most sense. And right next to the that group of revenue generating the revenue teams are the recruiters, right, and those are a bunch of obviously talent recruiters, but also, like the the user experience recruiters, product managers who are asking people to the recruiting them to join their research calls. So those two are the very, very obvious sort of up market sort of company purchasing ICEPS that make the most sense. Yeah, okay, so let's talk about this for a second. Let's you zoom out a little bit and just go as you've walked through this, because there's so much traffic happening. One of the things is, like you're going to inevitably hit hiccups, right. You think of these large like we think of tech, we think of Bob Sass, and we know that there's like trials and like we're testing things constantly, but we also are very good at looking shiny, like like everything's just working and like you know. So tell me a little bit of like what you've learned in this process where it's like, okay, we're trying things and we're adjusting. Like what are those? Maybe it's a pitfall or a hiccup, you would say, through this process, something you've learned from. Are Blessed, after months of work on our on our data side, to have some of the...

...best day that I've had as a marketer in terms of product date to tied to user data. Like you know, our cust our customer sort of three hundred and sixty world is really, really strong, and so we're rigorous against more than just one metric in previous lives. When you move, for to to just one metric as your your North Star, you can get blinded to in efficiencies and changes in in buyer changes in the market, and so we look at a lot of different indicators, not just how many people are buying from the trial, but are the people using it, because coin only kind only is free like that's it's really important to build the usage, not just convert to paid. Well, Nice, you know, can only has a lot more benefits on their free side. And then on the the sort of sales led side, we're new and we're figuring it out and but we're keeping a wide scope of what we think the metrics need to be. I guess it's keeping up in mind, right like if you if you don't, if you if I came in and said this is what work for me in the past and this is what we're doing, we'd be in trouble. It's allowing ourselves the freedom to experiment and make mistakes, because we do have so much traffic right, we do have so much volume. We can learn quickly. So allow ourselves the freedom to learn. I love that freedom to learn and just because of the scale, it's kind of what I want to tap into here for the last few minutes that we have together, is to go, okay, I'm imagining there's someone less right now they're they're in their car, they're on a run, or they're just cooking dinner and they're listening to Garrett and Ben you talking in they're going, okay, I'm not really in that situation, but obviously iceep translates with these are conversations that we're finding ourselves in across be tob tech SASS. So what have you learned in this company, in this process that you feel as a transferable to others, like, is there any advice you would give to those that are listening and they're going okay,...

...like I want to take something away from this and maybe it's a mindset shift or a way of thinking that is now different for you that you would want to pass on. Yeah, the first one that I'm so thankful about for our product marketing leader, Jeff and and the whole proct marketing team is do your research, take the time, interview people that you think are in your in your target account, in your target you know, I seep. Do Close one analysis or do close lost analysis? Understand, like even if you have only early in your company's journey, right, you only have a couple of deals, ask them. You know, I would bet people who are buying early stage companies want to talk to you. So talk to him, you know, and really really get to understand what it is those pain points are, and be honest with yourself. Is this something that is sustainable? Right, you might get a blue bird deal, but you know this is it's in manufacturing. But, like you probably don't have a good manufacturing story. So, like that might just be a oneoff type of thing and don't don't get lost down that path. So certainly we do it here more than than I've ever done. But but do your homework, do your research and really understand people and and commit. I think tiptoeing into two things is nice and we're obviously doing it on some technical levels, but we are committing to going to our ICEPS right, because it's then you you have the content you need for your bit, for your journey right. And if it you are a sales led company or deals could take a little while or you're in the sales process, you have to like you can't just be like we. We had a Webbinarre for sales people, example, and then not have follow content. Your your sales doesn't have what it's needed to get them across the line. And so that's the scary thing. You do have to commit to, you know, multiple pieces of content creation, multiple targeting budget. So do your research and then commit. It's easy to pivot if you're you're paying attention quick enough, but if you don't commit, you're really not doing it. So I want to I want to talk about that, that word commit...

...here for for a second because I feel like there's a lot within that, because you are testing things and if you've done your research well, then you should be able to commit to a certain extent. What does that looked like from a content strategy standpoint, from what you've created for these ICPS? Like you say, okay, sweet, we're committed. Paint that picture for me. Yeah, we actually just had this conversation the other day that the marketing doesn't end when a lead raise their hand to talk to sales or jumps into a free trial marketing. There's so much of of work that needs to be done in helping the buyer get to that closed one. Certainly if you're selling it to an enterprise company, you know that has multiple stakeholders it or procurement. It's not just what we got them to raise their hand. Sales can be able to do everything from now on. Right, a great sales person might be able to, but a team of sales people probably can't at scale. And so we are trying and always improving at being rigorous around where does this piece of content fit and making sure we have pieces of content that for the whole journey. I candidly oftentimes think that what I what is an awareness piece is really probably consideration and so being on it, like, because being honest with each other and saying, well, we really need something even higher up or we need something even deeper, or even post opportunity creation, right, like it's a marketers job isn't ever done with an account or with a deal, right, like I love seeing deals through, through to close and then then the upsale. Right, like it's easier to grow account than it is to find a new one. MMM. It's committing to mapping out and then making the pieces, which is hard and expensive sometimes so, but also it's you know, we do webinars in tournament to a bunch of different content pieces, right, like a down funnel sort of decisionmaking. WEBINARC can have awareness level content nuggets. It's a good way to think about it. To Yeah, I think we if we create a piece of content for a certain...

...part of a funnel, it's easy to just go into that mode like that's for this segment of our audience when in reality, like some of that deeper funnel conversation, if you bring it up to the top, like its surfaces all sorts of new potential conversations and in leads so awesome. I like it. Intense research, kind of discovering those pain points and commitment, committing to the ICP, and I literally wrote on my I have a little white board that I always write notes undering these conversations. The right marketing never ends, which for everybody listening, we all resonate with that. So I love it. Garrett. Thank you for diving in here with us today. Let's come up for air here in a sense, and just as we kind of conclude, tell people first like how they can connect with you, and then we're all, I would guess, decently familiar with Countlei, but obviously feel free to plug what you guys are doing as well. Yeah, the easiest way to connect with me is on Linkedin. I think it's just Linkedin, Garret Scott, or whatever the profile you arel is these days, and super excited. Speaking of Linkedin, conny just released our linkedin extension through the chrome extension, which is getting a wonderful ton of love. So you can instead of needing to open colony, you can just book put your links and event types right there, just like you can in Gmail and other male platforms. Yeah, and super excited. The back half of this year has an incredible amount of awesome product for for our ICP's worse, it's so much more than just to scheduling link these days. Get your team out there on to the same account. Invite your friend, invite your invite your friend co workers and and see what we can do for you. Love Him Man. Well, thank you for stop him by be tob growth today and really appreciate your time. Yeah, I know, Benjie was awesome. Thank you so much for always having conversations like this here on B tob grows. We want to help fuel your innovation and your continued learning within marketing. So thanks for listening to today's...

...show. If you aren't subscribed, maybe this is your first time listening, feel free to do that. We would love for you to stay connected to what the content that we're putting out, so subscribe on whatever service you're listening on and connect with me over on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block and would love to chat with you about marketing, business and life. Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. If you enjoyed a day show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoyed the day show, take a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting you to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing.

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