B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1747 · 4 months ago

Your Marketing Teams Biggest Struggle | Original Research

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We spoke with 100 marketing leaders and asked "What's your marketing team's biggest struggle?" In this roundtable discussion Benji, James, and Logan break down the findings.

Discussed in this episode:

  1. How to beat the pervasive issue of shiny object syndrome
  2. How to curate new ideas while executing your current strategy
  3. The importance of setting goals and priorities 

Recommendations/Resources:

What the Heck is EOS?

Deep Work by Cal Newport

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth. Here at sweet fish and B two B growth, we place high value on experimentation in continued evolution. We want to help our clients create incredible shows that leaders proudly say are their favorite, and clearly that's also the vision here internally for our show, B two B growth. With that heart, today is our first try at something brand new. Last year we sat down with a hundred marketing leaders and we began an original research project to get a sense of where teams are actually at, and so we asked questions like what are the marketing KPI s your CEO is looking at regularly? What's the most overrated B Two B marketing trend? What technology are you looking to add to your tech stack? What's your most successful marketing channel? And we've compiled the findings to those questions and more, and today we're gonna Start to bring those to you, so you can expect an episode each week dissecting this research for the foreseeable future. I want to say a special thanks and give a shout out to all the leaders who gave us their time. They answer these questions, and now we get to glean insights. So let's jump in enjoy this first episode on Your Marketing Team's biggest struggle. Friends, today we're here to tackle your team's largest hurdle and the thing we've heard time and time again that is a struggle. It's the pain point, the thorn in the side of your marketing team. We have the data. We're excited to share it. We asked a hundred B two B marketing leaders what their marketing team's biggest struggle is, and I'll tell you our findings in just a second. But before we get there, let me tell you who's here for the discussion. And we got James Carberry, founder and head of marketing, Purrett sweet fish and Logan Lyles, vp of revenue and innovation. Guys, glad to have you here on B two B growth for this exciting conversation. This is gonna be Super Fun at this original research has been a long time coming, so I'm glad that we're finally getting to start putting getting to to put some insights out into the world. Thanks for having me back on the MIC. It's been a while since I've actually been on the show. Benji. People are like, Oh yeah, look, and I know you from B two B growth, that that new host is a lot better. Just heard that earlier this week. Just well, thanks for dusting off the MIC and I don't know about that, but I appreciate the EGO boosts. So I want to start with lived experience and then we'll get to the data. The data, however, you say it all right. So lived experience. Both of you have spent time building teams. You spent time around marketing and the question that we posed at a hundred marketing leaders I'll now pose at you. What is our marketing team's biggest struggle? And, James, why don't you take the first swing here? Yeah, I think it's lack of prioritization. There's so many things you can do to win in marketing today. You can win leveraging a B M, you can win on social, you can win through podcasting, you can win by having a phenomenal Seo Strategy. Like there's just so many ways to win and and that's overwhelming, I think for marketing leaders. It's like you hear about a new strategy, you hear a new thought leader come onto the scene out of nowhere, and I know for me personally, like I hear Alex Harmosey talking about, like how we need to build a better offer, like we've got to focus on the offer, and then you hear Chris Walker going on and on about creating demand and and like you hear Gary v talk about how you need to document instead of create, and all of them makes sense and all of those things are working for each of those people and and like how do I take pieces of that and develop our own strategy and our...

...own focus? And it's hard, like you end up, it's just really easy to not have a clear, coherent vision of this is how we are going to win, especially someone like myself who is taking in and ingesting a ton of content and just seeing that there's way more than one way to win. You've got people saying building a category is the way to do it, creating demand is the way to do it, have an irresistible offer is the way to do it, and it's just it's just a lot like well, okay, like now we just need to pick one and go yeah, look. And what's your kind of lived experience around this? What do you feel like? Is that that struggle, that hurdle, similar to that but a little bit different, is sticking with something long enough to determine is it a success. So now some of that comes in the form of what James has talked about. All right, we're doing this. We're gonna go all in on original research and that's going to be a pillar to our content strategy and it's going to lead to these others and then we're going to prioritize these two channels to push out those those insights. Right. But then two months into that, something happens. Either there's a new idea, you hear something that we need to pivot on, or something just happens in the business. Right, it's not always just shiny objects syndrome. Sometimes, if you're in a high growth organization, especially one like ours that's bootstrapped in high growth, sometimes there are factors that just make you have to pivot and you don't really know was that successful, was that on the right track? And so that prioritization from just the shiny objects syndrome, paired with changes in the business and priorities even beyond marketing, can create this mixture of just I don't know what to do. I don't know if what we've done is working or did work, or should we keep doing it? So I think sometimes we talk about prioritization and it's just like, oh, we're a bunch of, you know, distract acted marketers that are onto the next thing. It was clubhouse and now it's Tiktok and tomorrow it's something different. But there are real challenges to that prioritization that James was talking about. That does have to do with picking a channel and sticking with it, but also the other factors in the business that surround those decisions and those priorities to the word that keeps resonating in my head is bandwidth. Like you have all these ideas, you have internal things you have to execute on, you have the old plan you were running before. How do you and then this goes to the word you guys are both using. How do you prioritize effectively and where do you spend your bandwidth? How much of it goes to new ideas? How much of it goes to the way that has been working? How do you talk about the new things you want to try to the market, to inform them of where you're going, while also executing the thing that got you here? And when you're asking all those questions at the same time, overwhelmingly what we saw at the response to this data is what we're all hitting on. The word ends up being focused. Like we struggle to figure out how to focus. And so when you zoom out on and I'll read some of the specific responses here, when you zoom on out on what they're saying, they're saying we don't know where to focus. We have so many priorities or things we could be doing. And again, it's not just like shiny objects syndrome all the time. It's just there's a lot of ways you end up in a lack of focus. So I'll read some Ben Slater said they have an ambitious team. So capacity becomes an issue. Right, bandwidth? Did they bite off more than they can chew? Adam Goyet, I have to say real pause, real quick. I struggle with last names, so there's a good chance I get last names wrong here. No, Goyette is right. I do know Adam, so you're good. Good. If I get one wrong and you know it, correct me. But Adam Goyette, focus on the projects that are really significant for us. Andrew Haley, learning how to do things at scale and to...

...communicate, to add the right amount of process but not get bogged down. And again that becomes like that focus. That's the word that resonates there. Charlie Fashiona, who I anyone want to take a shot at that last name? Finding enough time in a day. Again, what do I focus on? And so when you hear those responses, I think there's part of us that goes, we're not in this alone. Then the other part of the discussion is like, okay, so where do we go from here? There's a lot of ways you end up in a lack of focus. But as you're thinking of this, like what do you feel is the remedy, James, like what is there some things you found? Yeah, when? So, when we first got this insight back, as timmy was was digging into the data and and we were talking about it the other day, the thing that I was actually really encouraged by was, you know, the problem of focus can actually be solved in a very tangible way by what we do for our clients. And and obviously this is biased because we're a podcast agency, but if your focus is on creating your market's favorite show and you are rallying your resources around creating your market's favorite show, there are things that are natural byproducts of that show that fuel all of the things that typically would be seen as competitive to a particular strategy. But when you're focused on creating this great show that is fueling micro content for social it's allowing you to build community, it's allowing you to create demand because if you're doing your show right, you're taking your brand story, your points of view, you're pressing them up against market input and then you're you're pushing that content into your market. So you're creating demand. You can do a B M depending on how you do the original research or your guest strategy, if you're if you're building content with your ideal buyer. So there's so many different pieces around executing your markets favorite show and being the person that hosts and runs your markets favorite show that touch all of these other things. So when I first heard it, that's where my my mind initially when I was like, man, how incredibly blessed are we as a business to be championing this because, as I think about it for us, I'm like, what if we were to solely focus on B two B growth? And I think about all the different things we've been able to do with that. We've been able to build marketing squads on the back of that by inviting our guests to join us in micro communities. We fuel our linkedin content with videos like what we're recording here from an episode of B twob growth. But we're also getting the massive benefit of having this long form content that people can consume passively and build affinity toward our brand by spending just volumes of time with us. So that's that's where my head went. I think, even zooming out from there, that's why pillar content becomes so crucial, because then you know where you're centering your focus and then essentially the planets that orbit around that, and that's what you want in your strategy. That's why, even organizationally, when you have those goals that everyone is behind for your marketing team, that's why that gets harped on right like. Then we know what the main focus is. It's interesting to use the podcast as an example because I think it does it solidifies so much of the rest of the strategy. Yeah, that's really good. You guys. I'm thinking three things. One is around this pillar or hub content at the center of your strategy. The second is around something you just alluded to, Benji, is goal setting that I think has been transformative, a work in progress, not perfect here at sweet fish. And then the third is something kind of granular. But to take the first one that we were talking about is, if you think about your podcast or something else that you're already that you're already doing, being...

...that pillar or being that hub in the middle of your strategy, and your other strategies are spinning off from that, your a b m strategy, your research strategy, your SEO strategy, right instead of all those lining up and you know, looking at six different columns and and you're going back and forth and what do I focus on? It's focus on that hub in the middle and then the execution goes out from there. So I think that that makes it a little bit less overwhelming. And you know something that Justin Simon at metadata talks about a ton is that so many marketing teams are trying to create new content and they don't spend enough time thinking about repurposing and distributing. This hub and spoke model really addresses that because you're focusing on that hub or that pillar in the center and then the other pieces become easier to repurpose and to just focus on a consistent distribution strategy. Right. The second piece for us, since we had opted e O s, the entrepreneurial operating system, we found that setting rocks, which are the quarterly goals right. Some some teams are used to okay RS or other goal setting formulas, if you use for d x or something like that, but having quarterly goals has really changed the game for us. Now we've found that you can't just set quarterly goals. You have to create a system for setting those, for accountability, for review. There's actually more that goes into it than you would actually think. I understand why there are tech companies built around okay RS and e o s and those sorts of things now, but about ninety days is the time that it takes to lose energy, to lose focus, to use the word of the day. And so, whether it's e o s or something like that, a system for goal setting and execution in your marketing team, paired with that hub and spoke model of your content in the center that feeds the rest, really can be a great combination. And then I think the third thing to get really granular. I heard something about this on the customer experience podcast with Ethan Butte the other day is talk about talking, talk about your communication strategy internally, because marketing teams are doing creative work, they're doing a lot of different things. So I think marketing teams are especially susceptible to communication fatigue, to channel overwhelmed. Right I'm slacking someone about this, I'm texting someone about that, I'm calling, we're emailing here. So on your team, set some priorities or set some kind of bright line rules for hey, this is where we communicate, what we communicate about in a sauna. This is what we use slack for, this is when and how we text each other. Not to be kind of dogmatic about it, but to set some bright line rules that allow you to focus and get the deep work done that needs to happen. I love all three of those Logan. I think that's some key insights and it had this question rolling around in my mind. I am so guilty of always thinking in questions. But I under where are people currently asking? What should we stop doing? Like, where's the meeting? Where that shows up, and how does it show up? Where do you actually go back and forth with the team on we've been running this for a long time and now it needs to change or shift, and it doesn't mean like, okay, we were using written content and now we don't use written content at all, but we're renegotiating how much written content we come out with or having like, for us, around B two B growth, going from five episodes to three, or what's the future look like? That makes the most sense in this current season, where you have that recurring conversation, matters a lot because the more that you have these like new goals, new things that you want to do, they again we'll run into a bandwidth issue, you're going to run into a capacity problem if you don't have a conversation around what can you actually manage right now. So that question to me and finding a place, a recurring meeting where that question can be asked becomes really compelling and I'd say if you're a marketing leader, you need to be the one who initiates...

...that. There are probably members of your team who are thinking that, but they don't want to be the one to say should we stop doing this webinar series because it was the VPS idea right. It's gonna be hard for them to raise their hand and say maybe we should next that right, but if you, as the leaders say look, everything is on the table. What should we think about stopping right now? And I think you'll be surprised at what your team may bring up if you're the one who prompts that m that's what I love so much about e o s. two is it creates a system. It creates rhythms for surfacing those issues. So in in the weekly what they call Elton Level Ten meeting Um that departments have and that the company leadership team has, that anyone can can bring up an issue to throw on the issues list and they call it the I D s list because it's identified. You first have to identify what is the root issue and then you discuss it and then you solve it, and when you solve it, that issue should not pop back up on the list. And so what I found as the CEO is really having to over communicate that people put issues on the list. Like, don't be afraid to put issues on the list. I cannot be the only one seeing issues. Across the business everyone's seeing issues. But to your point earlier, can I bring this issue up because it was James's idea six months ago, and if I say that it's not working then you know, or I don't really want to rub my boss the wrong way, because I know they were really championing this thing. And so that's what's so cool about us, the Rock Setting piece of Eos, just the way they do quarterly rocks and and annual that roll up to annual rocks that are roll up to an annual annual goals and then a three year picture and a ten year plan like that's transformed our business. But the weekly like rhythm and cadence of meeting discussing these issues. But you're not going to get the most out of those meetings if you're not invited constantly, like making sure everybody knows, like you are responsible for bringing issues, any problems you see across the business, like we're not going to talk about them if you don't bring them. And so to your point, Benji, it's like that idea of like somebody needs to bring an issue to say, like what what do we need to stop doing right now, like I'm feeling overwhelmed, drama, obser everything that somebody else on my team is overwhelmed, like what do we need to stop doing? And the more we can not only make it okay but make people like know how critical that bringing issues to those meetings are, so that that's what I like. The structure of e O s, to me, is phenomenal because it creates space for those kind of questions to be asked. Hey everyone, if you've been listening to be to be growth for a while, you know that we are big proponents of putting out original, organic content on Linkedin, but one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is easily tracking the reach of that linkedin content. That's why we're really excited about shield analytics. Since our team started using shield, we've been able to easily track the reach and performance of our linkedin content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and it generates dashboards that are incredibly useful to determining things like what content has been performing the best, what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views per post. Shield has been a game changer for our entire team's productivity and performance on Linkedin. I highly suggest checking out this tool if you're publishing content on Linkedin for yourselves or for your company. You can get a ten day free trial at shield APP DOT AI, or you can get a discount with our Promo Code...

B. Two B growth. Again, that's shield APP DOT AI, and the Promo Code is B, the number to be growth. All one word for a discount. All right, let's get back into the show. So that that's what I like. The structure of e o s to me is phenomenal because it creates space for those kind of questions to be asked. Yeah, for anybody that's not familiar with the e O s, just Google level ten meeting, even if you're not adopting e o s like we have here at sweet fish, what James is talking about here with the ID s list, the issues lists and the way that you can structure a meeting to encourage your team to bring up issues. I'm glad you said that, James, because just last week you mentioned to me and two of our directors that, Hey, I noticed you guys haven't put any issues on the list for next week's meeting. It wasn't like, Hey, make sure you don't bring up anything and complain in next week's meaning. It was like you need to bring something because I know that you're experiencing issues, and that was a good example of what I was mentioning earlier that oftentimes it needs to come from the leader to create those prompts. If you Google level ten meeting and look at some examples out there, you can start implementing an issues list for your marketing team that could foster exactly what we're talking about here. I'll give two books. What the heck is the OS? That's a book that you know we would recommend here. Clearly it's going to walk into the whole system. And then deep work by CAL Newport. From just a focused perspective as far as like I'm gonna Time Block out when I'm available to other people and like, that's more on a personal level. But if you can get a rhythm of deep work, especially if you live in the content marketing space where it's easy to just check social and then look up and be like where did I just lose forty five minutes, that book will help you really prioritize and figure out where you can focus. Logan. I wanted to ask you a follow up question on something you said earlier because you had mentioned one of our internal things that we can we can struggle with is not running an experiment for long enough so when we're talking about wanting to Nix something. I think the pushback I hear in my own brain that I'd love to hear you talk you riff on a little bit, is how do you balance the two, like, okay, it's time to kill this, versus we haven't run the experiment long enough to actually know if we're getting a result. Sometimes it comes down to where you started, because we can get really excited about something and we can even set up plan in place of okay, we're gonna do this, then this, then this, over the next ninety days or the next two quarters. But, whoops, we forgot to ask how are we going to measure success? How are we going to measure if we're on track or off track at thirty days in, at sixty days in, right, and just like a good sales rep would ask you if they're qualifying a situation, what does success look like if you were able to do this or use our product or start with our service to accomplish whatever you're trying to accomplish? You need to ask that of your team because just have you, just because you have a plan in place of what you want to do when, doesn't mean you've taken the time to identify the leading indicators and the success metrics that you want to look at to determine if you're on track or off track. So I think it starts with not skipping that step initially. Right, and then you can look at some patterns, like maybe you're like, well, we've mixed a few things, like four things over the last year that we were only forty five days into. Right, okay, then maybe you need to swing the pendulum to the other side. As most things in life, I think there's wisdom in moderation and in the middle, and so if you notice that you're swinging to one side of starting too many things and mixing them quickly, then you probably want to err on the side of moving the other direction. If you're sticking with things too long and noticing that, Oh Dang, we look up and Oh, I can't believe we're doing it because that's the way we've always done it. How did get there, then you probably need to air on the...

...other side. So looking at those patterns of your team's performance and the way you talk about things, I think can help Logan. You just mentioned something that made me think of this. You know, at least my my responsibility for adding in our organization for adding, a lack of like for creating and a culture of of lack of focus. So much of it comes down to like what you had mentioned around you know, it's the newness of an idea, and so I'll hear somebody talk about something, I'll think it's brilliant. And what's so great about E O s? It's a filtering mechanism because if we've already set our rocks for the quarter, I know that I can't I can't go in and change those rocks. So I have to park that idea in our you know, kind of potential rocks list on a sauna and if I'm constantly adding ideas throughout the quarter, what I've found is just being able to sit on some of these ideas for even a couple of weeks. We'll get to our rocks setting session and we'll go and obviously look at. Okay, what rocks did we say that could be potential rocks last quarter as we're setting our new rocks, and I go now that it's not relevant anymore. Now that's not relevant anymore because I just the system allows for time to be in place between the newness and freshness of when you had the idea and when it's like okay, time to rally the troops and the team around actually executing this, where before e o s we didn't have that. So it was like ideas just flying around. Yeah, I have an idea. In the middle of the night on a Tuesday and Wednesday I'm like we're going this way, and everybody's like what the Hell? Like this, this is chaos. It's like the wisdom in what I've heard some people say is like they set a benchmark of over a hundred dollars or over a thousand dollars, whatever it is. If I'm going to send more than X, I'm going to sleep on it or, you know, if it's over a thousand, I'm gonna wait a week right and see how I feel. But having a spot to park those ideas, whether that's in Asana or a Google Doc, that your team, you know, has consistent access to across the team, to where you don't feel like you're letting good ideas slip through the cracks, but you're not oh Dang, if we don't get started on this tomorrow, nothing is ever going to happen that again. It's that moderation. It is moderation. But where, I think, where it gets more complex is some things are clearly rocks, like they're clearly the the high value, like this would be a whole quarter project. But that might not be the thing that distracts. It's like all these little things that come up that would never be a rock. So now we have a thousand things on our to do list that are like technically side projects. They're not actually going to be the big things that move the company forward, but they ended up on our list because they're not quite big enough for rocks. But so we can probably implement them next week. You know, that's where you have to balance that tension of like does this just distract from from what we currently have on our plate? Because it's a good idea, but it's not quite a great idea, you know. Yeah, yeah, it relates to time blocking, as you talked about with what you were mentioning with Count Newport's book, and where the idea for rocks come from. So the reason that quarterly goals in e o s are called rocks is from that old analogy where a professor takes a jar, put some big rocks in it and asked the class is it full? Yes, it's full. Then he dumps pebbles in. Oh, now is it full? Yeah, dumps some sand in. Now is it full? Yeah, then puts water in. Right, but if you started with the water you couldn't have gotten all those other things in. So you have to set those goals and you have to time block and have accountability to that. That way you can say no, I do not have time for this because I'm starting with the rocks, not the sand and the water. It's good. James,...

...you posted about focus and and our findings on Linkedin and you've got a number of responses. You want to talk about some of what you were seeing in some of the feedback? Yeah, so, so some of the comments that we got just, you know, kind of reading through here. One said I require new ideas every year into the marketing plan and budget. That's how we keep it fresh and the team innovating and engaged. I love that. A requirement for fresh new ideas in our organization. I probably because I'm the leader of it. We have no shortage of new ideas. Um So I don't think we was like, sounds like a limit for us. It's not. Maxim another one, somebody else had mentioned implementing Eos has been a game changer. Another person the majority of conversations I've had about this issue. It's because the leadership team wants to please everyone. So when VP of sales needs something, it's a top priority, when CEO wants something, it's a top priority, and the team is on a able to focus on their rocks because they're pressured to chase these shiny objects. And and that's where I think to me, you know that that's a culture problem and if if the leadership is not creating an atmosphere where people feel like they can push back and say, Hey, you know, even as me as a CEO, Hey, I've asked you to do something, but it's like, Hey, I'm really focused on this rock right now and I'm not gonna have bandwidth to finish the rock. And this when given. I can only speak for me. I can't speak for other leaders, but like for you're to tell me that okay, like focus on your rock, like the thing. I just either didn't realize it was going to be that heavy of a lift or I you know, I wasn't aware that you had this other rock. And so I think that's that's a culture issue. If you're in an organization where you don't feel like you can where you can push back, that's a tough spot to be. I would probably try to find somewhere else to be. You know, earlier we were talking about as a leader. What do you do to facilitate that, that hand raising of we have an issue here. I've got too much bandwidth. We need to change direction. From the perspective of managing up, one of the things that you can do is if your team has a goal setting and tracking system in place, like rocks with e o s is, when your boss comes to you and says we need to do this, or do you have time for this? That allows you to say, I can say yes to this, but if I say yes to this, I'm saying no to what I've already been asked to do. I'm saying no to half of this project. Or that means this project that was supposed to be done July is now into August. Is that okay, because this is what I need in order to say yes to that? Or this is what's going to happen if I say yes to that, and that language can be really empowering for you to manage up to your boss or your supervisor, and it's really it's really easy to assume that your leader, especially if it's like your boss's boss, it's really easy to assume that they know what you're focused on, what what context of your situation. So it's really easy to hear that and go, do they not know that? I've you know that so and so just asked me to do this, this and this, and I've also got this. No, actually, they don't know. Like they're thinking about a wide variety of things, and so hopefully the culture of the organization is for you to see. I mean how Logan phrase that was was beautiful. It's hey, if I focus on this and I do this, it means I'm not going to do this. Is that what you want? And so you're putting it back on them and, like I said earlier, more often than not they're gonna say, Oh, no, no, I didn't realize that. Well, you've just saved yourself weeks of distraction and probably frustration across your organ by having this posture of pushing back a little bit and not just blindly taking it because it's like, oh, it's my boss's boss, I've I've got to do this right. I think that's a fast path to burn out too. In any position that you go into as a leader, if you can start by laying the ground rule that you want push back and you can...

...say it early and often, you set yourself up for success. The more you say it and give people permission, the more they'll do it. But a lot of people are not going to do what we're advocating for right now because the culture doesn't exist to actually push that forward. It sounds so great in theory, but if you were to go to your boss or your boss's boss and give that type of pushback, it would seem so out of left field because it's it might not be commonplace. So that's where to me from a leadership standpoint. Hey, in this room again, if it's if it's your staff meeting or if it's just your marketing team meeting, whatever, the rooms are where you want the ideas to really go back and forth and you want to fight for the best idea, you could establish that every time you have one of those conversations. Hey, I want pushback. Hey, I want you to tell me where this has holes in it. The more often you do that, the culture gets reinforced. There was one more James on here. Do you want to highlight that before we start to wrap here? This last comment was it mostly happens because if Momo and many time marketing leaders and teams have a need to show that they are doing a lot. This speaks to what, you know, we said earlier. There's a barrage of things that can work and the fear of missing out on not doing category creation because you're doing, you know, a demand creation strategy, or the feeling of missing out of all of these potential, you know, all of this site traffic that you could get come into your site, because there's this arbitrage to rank for all these keywords related to this. You know, Wide Open set of words that you know you could rank four, but it's like, if we are doing that, then we're that we're not doing this, and so that fear of missing out one really resonated with me because I think that's that's that's what feels crippling to me. oftentimes it's like, oh, but I know all these different things can work and I just want to do all of them. Yeah, it's I think the one that I think of see a lot of content specifically, is when you go to a website and they have like every social media link imaginable, like, Oh, if I click on this, I know about to hit a graveyard on like at least four of these platforms where you tried for like two weeks and it was way beyond bandwidth, way beyond focus, and now you're gone and I think hopefully we're realizing you can pick one or two channels where your potential ideal buyer is most active and just live there. But man, that's the one where I'm like, yeah, we have Fomo, oh I have to be on whatever the latest channel is because everybody else is there and that's we're gonna miss out. That's such a great call out. That is literally the visualization of what we're talking about. and Go to a B, two B brand's website, scroll to the bottom, look at one how many different social media icons and links are there and how many of them are a graveyard? If that happens, then you've probably got a lack of focus on that marketing team. But I think about like yeah, and and again, I am the most guilty culprit of lack of focus, but I just recently stepped into owning the marketing function as REX Baverston left the organization to get back into consulting and one of the things that I wanted to do with our team, with with emily and Benji, is said it very like be as clear as I possibly could be about like we are going to create demand by dominating linkedin. And so what we are doing today by recording this, speaking to what I was referring to earlier, with a show, being able to do, all of you know, a wide variety of these tactical executions of marketing. If we're going to dominate Linkedin, we know that video is the best way to do that because it builds affinity and that's aligned with our brand story. What we we want to drink our own champagne. We're telling our clients they need to build affinity. We need to build affinity. So, you know, creating demand by dominating Linkedin is like our rallying cry. Will that be our rallying Christ six months from now? Maybe, like something might adjust, something might happen in the business. We need to focus somewhere else, but I'm trying, as you...

...know, I'm trying very hard, and Benji could probably, you know, tell everyone how effective is that. It actually is, but like trying to focus all of our resources around that. It's crazy how freeing it is whenever you have that kind of focus, because it's like, nope, that's not relevant, that's not going to help us create demand by dominating linkedin. Now, that's that's not gonna do it either. Oh Yep, I'd love to hire that team of writers to try to rank for those keywords, but it's not gonna be this quarter. But, but it's still a constant struggle. I mean here we are talking about it and I'll probably end up sending Benji or emily a text message in six hours, but with some new article that I saw the hours that will only be eight o'clock. Probably more like twelve hours in the middle of the night. You've gotten better at the middle of the night ideas coming through via slack so that you know team members don't get texts immediately. Yeah, I try to do this later on slack function. Now this has been such an insightful conversation. I'll end with the quick story. It's actually an old Indian parable that I feel like just sums this up so well. It's just this idea of there's this old ancient Indian stage he has two disciples and the first one comes to him and there bow and Arrow. He says focus on the bird's eye. And then he says what do you see? And this disciple, this follower, goes I see the clouds, I see the forest, I see the trees, I see all every he just starts describing. I see that squirrel over there. And then the stage asks the second disciple, the second follower, what do you see? And he says I see the eye of the bird and that's focus. Right. He says, okay, shoot your shot. To me, that's it like when you know that exact Arrow, like very specific, that's the exact spot target I want to hit, and that's all you see. Everything else that's in the periphery goes away. It's like, I see the bird's eye. That's a very different mentality. You know exactly where you're headed. You know exactly where you're going. That's what we're hoping for for you, for your organization. That's why B two B growth exists, hopefully not to just give you abundance of ideas, but to help you continue to grow and to shape your thinking on some of this stuff. This has been a fascinating conversation. We're so excited to get to share more of these in the future. If you want to connect with James, if you want to connect with Logan, if you want to connect with me on Linkedin, we'd love to chat with you about marketing, about business, about life. Fellas, it was a pleasure, it was an honor to record this with you. Let's stay focused this week and, uh, do the work that matters. And Benji, I don't know if we want to tease the next insight that we're going to be dropping, but like, like you mentioned, we interviewed a hundred B two B marketing leaders. We asked him fifteen different questions and the next insight we're gonna be dropping is an insight that we developed around the question of what is the number one metric your CEO is measuring marketing success? One really, really interesting. I've been talking with Timmy about this at the last, you know, seven or eight of our of our lunches. So really excited to share that in one of the one of the future episodes. It probably won't be the very next episode that you listened because we're we're still working on tweaking some different things with B two B growth, but it's it's coming down the pipe soon. Yeah, excited for all the future conversations and to share what we've been learning from this original research that we've been doing. Stay tuned. We'll be back real soon with another episode. If you enjoyed today's show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoyed today's show, take a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting it to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing. Boo.

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