B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2030 · 5 months ago

Why Email Marketing Is Still Important in a Demand Gen Strategy

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As we're winding down our demand generation deep dive, Lesley Crews talks with Dan Sanchez on why email marketing is still relevant in a demand gen strategy. It's not all organic!

Yeah. Mhm What's up everybody? Welcome back toGDP Growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with Swedish media. We're continuing ourjourney into demand generation and today I am joined by our very own danSanchez dan, you're usually in the hosting chair here, but you're in thehot seat today. So welcome between Sweet Fish Media members. It's kind offun to just jump back and forth and you jump onto a podcast. Sometimes we'relike, wait, who's hosting? Are you hosting? Or am I hosting? Usually I'mon here with James and we're just kind of like usually right before we jump onand be like, oh do you want to kick it off? It's kind of like which everyonegoes. So it's fun to kind of jump in with you on your deep dive, whichbefore you start asking me questions, I have to ask you the question like howhas it been going with your deep dive and like where do you feel like you'reat in this journey? What do you feel like you've learned and what do youfeel like? Just real briefly, what do you feel like you've learned? What doyou feel like you have yet to like understand about the topic of demandjin Oh man, this is good stuff. Yeah, so I actually literally just talked tosomeone a few minutes ago and I was I was telling them, they asked me prettymuch the same question, they were telling me like, oh like what have youlearned and what are you still trying to focus on and all these things? AndI've learned so much. I've talked to so many different people, you know, Italked to chris walker, I talked to um the letter gore recently which was sovaluable to me in so many different ways and you know, we're still on thisjourney here, but I'm finally starting to kind of understand what demandgeneration is, where it lies, kind of under brand marketing. I think thateveryone has a different definition for it. Um Everybody has a different placewhere they put it, but kind of what I'm interested in learning moving forwardis more about products led growth. Um and this is something that I'm gonna betalking about this coming week um with someone um about you know, how demandgeneration works in these products led growth companies. And is this this kindof a self service model? Right. Product led growth. So does that kind of defeatthe purpose of demand generation? Does it still exist in these roles? Does itcompletely like just reduce this role?...

So I'm really excited to dive into thata little more and yeah, I'm excited. So it's fantastic. I mean, I think allgood marketing starts with a fantastic product, right? And of course there's awhole school of thought around marketing when it just comes to Theproduct and how to market said product. Right? Yeah, 100%. Well, you know,we're talking about demand jin today and I'm excited to talk to you becauseyou and I have both been really studying this for the past couple ofweeks. And one thing you and I have talked about in this industry of demandgeneration, something that's been a trend lately has been to kind ofnurture and channels aside from email and, you know, channels like linkedin,social media, facebook, twitter, whatever it is, those are reallydifficult to measure. And some people are even saying that email marketing ispretty much useless at this point, um and I know you have a strong opinion onthis, so is this something you agree with or disagree with? Usually want tohear people talking about demand generation, they're usually talkingabout like all this stuff you're doing on the very forefront or what they callthe top of the funnel, right? All the people who aren't yet aware of you,you're trying to make them aware of you. I mean Rudy said last week that it's,it's kind of a point of getting people to even know you exist out there, evenif you're not there, not sure what you do, like trying to help them understandwhere you are or that your brand name even exists. So I'm like, that's not abad way to look at it. And then furthermore, trying to get them toactually want what you offer or understand what you have and then wantwhat you offer that's generating demand. I've heard marketers call thatengineering desire or whatever, like phrase that could try to like put a,like a trademark on and just call it their own thing as if they invented it,right? There's so many terms tossed around. It's one of the funny thingsabout demand, gen, it's like I've heard this talked about in so many differentways and still a marketer coming from more of a B two C space. I'm still likewith you trying to understand the terminology around B to be almost feellike there's way more terms around there that people are throwing aroundthe dimensions kind of one of them. Now...

...when it comes to email marketing,that's where I consider, it's like where the middle of the funnel is wheredemand jin isn't playing as much and I'm not gonna lie. Like some peoplethrow some shade on email marketing like oh we don't need it like UNGH ateeverything. Like why even capture aly just like just keep generating demanduntil they show up at your front door begging for the solution. I'm like comeon guys like you can still invite them over. And I was telling even Leslielast week that I feel like a lot of people that are just purist when itcomes to demand gen is they like to throw a huge party a great party andits for free. So when they invite everybody to the party and they have alittle V. I. P. Section where they might charge the money to be in andthey just put up a sign V. I. P. Section and they're like well whenpeople are ready to come to the V. I. P. Section, they'll show up at the doorand we'll let them in once they pay. And I'm like well like I'd still besending some people under the crowd telling them about it and maybe tryingto invite them over, maybe get some some refreshments by the V. I. P.Section, you know, trying to get them closer into proximity of getting inthere. But the purists would say that that would be that you shouldn't dothat, that it's incorrect, that you clog up your pipeline doing that, andthat's kind of like this middle part of the funnel, right? They almost go afterthe top and after the bottom, and I'm like, man, I think there's a lot ofroom for the middle, right? And that's what hubspot is all about, and Iactually still think it works, it works remarkably well, at least a lot ofcampaigns I did, and be to see it works remarkably well and still to this dayit's working for sweet fish media and we have some campaigns that JamesCarberry actually set up like a couple of years ago with emails he wrote thatare still working well. So I'd still say emails, emails, alive, emails. Well,even the kind of prove that it's working well. We did a survey recently.We actually haven't released the results of this massive survey. Weinterviewed 100 B two B marketing leaders and what I discovered is thatthe two main channels they're using to,...

...that that are killing it for most ofthem. So these are people we've had on the show and then asked and hadqualitative feedback from as far as the two main channels that they're killingit with is search engine marketing for top of the funnel and email in theirtrain for the middle of the funnel. So I'm like, hey, I know we're allthrowing shade of these, these two things, but I'm like, that's stillworking for most people. And I still, and I think the reason why chris walkerand like his crowd are generating so much attention is because they knowsearch engine marketing and email nurturing isn't enough, right? It'sworking, but it could be better. And I'm like, man, but I wouldn't change it.I would keep them running if you generate more top of the funnelactivity and still have a strong email nurture campaign going, then you canjust get more people into the middle of the funnel. So that's kind of mygeneral philosophy and why, I think it's still like a needed component. Hey,everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the showfor a while, you know, where big proponents of putting out originalorganic content on linked in. But one thing that's always been a struggle fora team like ours is to easily track the reach of that linked in content. That'swhy I was really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from aconnection on, you guessed it linked in. Since our team started using Shield,I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance ofArlington content without having to manually log it ourselves. Itautomatically creates reports and generate some dashboards that areincredibly useful to see things like what contents been performing the bestand what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and ouraverage views per post. I highly suggest you guys check out this tool.If you're putting out content on linked in and if you're not, you should be,it's been a game changer for us. If you go to Shield app dot Ai and check outthe 10 day free trial, you can even use our promo code B two B growth to get a25% discount again, that's shield app dot Ai. And that promo code is B thenumber to be growth. All one word. All...

...right. Let's get back to the show.That's interesting. I saw someone argue this and I thought it was really funny.They said professionals are required are not required to be on social media,but they might lose their jobs if they aren't on email. And I thought that wasreally interesting. So do you think that, you know, do you prefer onemethod to the other or do you think that both of these can be usedanonymously together? I think they could definitely both be used together.I mean, I think the more the more channels you can add, the better. Theproblem is there's only so much bandwidth for most companies so you canonly do so many channels. Well, the one thing I like about emails, it's a lotof email nurturing, right, is kind of set up and then you can let it run itsautomated and a lot of people hate those drips sequences, but they'reworking for me. I was even just before this, this interview, I pulled up sweetfishes drip sequences. There's like a kind of like a lead magnet. You cancall it on the website like a BB podcasting guide of some kind and thenthere's a probably like 10, 12 emails that follow up once you download the emagnet and these emails get open rates of, let's see 70% 61% 54%, 52% 40%.They always decrease as time goes down, but that's more attention. That's moreconversation. People often reply to the emails which are now coming from me andwe get a little conversation going, they're working pretty well and they'reintroducing people to different aspects of who we are, what we're about. Weallow people and we write them all to look like plain text email, so theylook like they look like they're coming from us, but people get that they'reautomated. It's not like we're tricking them. I just don't, I don't really likethe html ones that I know James doesn't either. We write them like we would asif we were following up with them one at a time, but since people need thesame information over and over again,...

...it tends to work to automate it. Sothat's the advantage of email is that you can automate it versus podcasting,which is another great middle of the funnel way to nurture people, right wayto build relationship way to get more time and attention, or essentially toget in front of them more often, you can't automate that you have tocontinually put out new podcast, like the one we're working on right now,right? You can't put that on a drip sequence nearly as well as you can withan email. Absolutely. You know, sales and marketing professionals do getreally bombarded with hundreds of emails a day and a week and you know,you really kind of have that one shot there to get them exposed to yourmessage. So what do you feel is the proper way to nurture via email? Andwhat do you think marketers who are currently doing this tend to get wrong?I usually try to build their, it's almost like you're trying to build abridge. So you have to consider at what point are they starting from, like whathave they been exposed to? Likely already by the time they get into theemail nurture sequence, Like what did they, why did they request it? And howdo you deliver that as soon as possible? And it's good? And then where do youwant them to go now? Might they might not be able to jump all the way fromwhere they started all the way to sales. Right? And that's the wholemetaphorical funnel that we're talking about, like what next baby steps, But Ilike them to achieve by the end. And how do I build kind of a bridge ofcontent on the way there. Um Starting with what they're interested in andending a step closer to where I want them to go. It could be a progressionand as far as the emails go, it could be that you're delivering content andevery single email and you have a little P. S at the bottom maybe with atime bound offer of some kind that's at the bottom of every single one. Andit's the same, there's a number of different ways to do it. But like Isaid once you build it you can kind of set it and forget it and let it run andsee see how it goes. You can even split test at some some people down one way,send some people down another and then pick a winner whichever one got morepeople to head to the side where you wanted or the to the end goal that youwanted them to get to. And that's kind of like classic email nurturing one on1 is build these little journeys for...

...people to go on so you can follow upwith them depending whether they respond or don't respond. You could tryto sweeten the deal if they don't respond after a while. That's what Ilove about. You can build these very simple or sophisticated campaigns todeliver the best content to the right person at the right time. Yeah. Onething I want to dive into with you is can we just talk for a second about theword nurture? Because this is something that we've been using a lot and this issomething that I've seen a lot on this journey and kind of going back tobasics here. It's just an interesting marketing term that everyone uses sofrequently. But what are you really trying to accomplish when you say like,oh, we want to nurture? Like we want to do this, we want to have a nurtureemail campaign or whatever it is. What do you mean by that? So you have tothink about what? It's not nurturing is not selling, right? That's what we'retrying to avoid. That's what we used to do. And like, outbound marketing wasjust send a postcard that was a straight sell. Like, hey, do you havethis problem? Because we got a solution, you should come check it out. There's adeal going on right now. Yeah, that's not if it sounds like that, it's notnurturing, You're just straight pitching. Um Gary V talked about it inhis book, jab, jab, right hook, right? So nurturing is essentially the jabs,it's the service. It's the, it's the thing that you're doing to endear themto you in some way and honestly just helping them, just being helpful orbeing entertaining or being inspirational to them. It's deliveringcontent that's of use to them whether or not they use your product, you areserving them with wherever they're at in their stage of the journey. Onwhatever topic it is. Right? If they're exploring uh a new email service, likea G suite or a Microsoft office or something like that, like where they atand discovering the capabilities, right? Or are they just exploring new optionsout there? Are they thinking about new productivity for the organization,which would be like really high level, Are they actually doing pricecomparisons between different tools? Now, if they're an I. T. Director wherethey at in the journey and how can you best serve them? That's nurturing isgiving them information that could...

...equip them or entertain them or alittle bit of both like on their way to helping them accomplish their job.Fantastic dan. I have to put you in the hot seat a little bit here. Um can youshare based on your experience the past couple of weeks and based on theinteractions you've been having on linkedin? How would you describe demandgeneration in your own words? I'm still trying to form my opinion on this as asyou are, but even just listening to multiple people on our own podcast thatyou've interviewed talk about it. And I think I heard 11 thing that chriswalker said recently that kind of like squared it up well for me. Um and hejuxtaposed demand gen with generating demand and capturing demand. And thatreally helped clarify it a lot for me because it separates some activities,because oftentimes when I've heard him define it, it's a little bit too broad.It's almost like it's like almost all of marketing and he would say like alltheir strategic marketing, all the stuff they essentially the executiveteam lines up as far as like what's our mission, where we going, what's ourmajor demographic, what's our product, you know, what's the price points?Those are like big picture strategic decisions that get made, where usuallymarketers, most marketers aren't even included in those decisions you, mostmarketers just get to essentially do demand jin which is almost like all ofus like, so demand gen is all of our jobs. Um that's a little bit too broad.It's a little bit too squishy because it doesn't, I don't feel like it fitswell with A B. M. I don't feel like it fits well um with a lot of the lead gentactics, but if you juxtapose it with generating demand versus capturingdemand, it kind of fits a little bit more nicely. It's a little bit closerto branding, but it's less, it's more tangible than branding. It's a littlebit more tactical than branding. It's somewhere between like legion and brand,somewhere, you know? And then A B. M. Kind of has its own little separatecamp somewhere totally. Yeah, where I'm...

...at right now, I'm trying to figure outand place it even in my own mind, I think different people have differentdefinitions for demand jin. Um but I think it's a useful word and honestlyit kind of describes itself, right? You're generating demand, you'recreating demand, you're helping people want something that they didn't knowthey wanted, right? Which is kind of the game of marketing in the firstplace, totally. Yeah, I was actually just talking to someone earlier todaywho when I asked this question, you know, how do you define demandgeneration? They said, well personally I look at it completely differently.Demand generation is something entirely different than generating demand and Iwas like, that's really interesting. So I'm excited to kind of dive more intothat because that's, that's a new term for me. So awesome. Well dan, this hasbeen so, so insightful, I've learned so much from you in my time here at SweetFish and on this journey in general and I'm really excited to see how we closeout this journey into demand generation. Where can listeners find you online ifthey want to connect? Absolutely, I love linkedin. So go to linkedin dotcom slash en slash digital marketing dan and connect with me there.Fantastic! Thanks again for joining me here on GDP growth for the longest time. I was askingpeople to leave a review of GDP growth and apple podcasts, but I realized thatwas kind of stupid because leaving a review is way harder than just leavinga simple rating. So I'm changing my tune a bit instead of asking you toleave a review, I'm just going to ask you to go to be be growth in applepodcasts, scroll down until you see the ratings and reviews section and justtap the number of stars you want to give us no review necessary. Super easyand I promise it will help us out a ton. If you want a copy of my book, contentbased networking, just shoot me a text after you leave the rating and I'llsend on your way, text me at 4074 and I know 33 to eight.

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