What Not To Do In 2022, with Ruslan Tovbulatov

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this replay episode, Benji Block interviews Ruslan Tovbulatov, VP, Global Marketing at Gloat.

This is the anti-resolution episode. A discussion on things we want to stop doing this year. We’re discussing the importance of prioritization, intentionally seeing the talent already on your team, and how vital rest is to our long-term success.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. This is B tob growth coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and joining me from Nashville, Tennessee director of growth here at sweet fish, Dan Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, our creative content lead, Emily Brady. Now here in about ten minutes I am going to share a throwback conversation. We do that here on Fridays. We like to just dust off an old episode because we've had so many in our archive that are worth resharing, and so you'll hear that in just a few minutes. But we're also doing a little bit of show and tell, and what we want to do is we want to take something we've seen from in and around marketing. Maybe it's a linkedin post or a book or in this case it was a blog that I saw. We just want to chat about it for a few minutes. And so what I'm taking a look at is an article from marketing brew and they're talking about how brands are speaking out on social issues, but it could take years. This is literally the title. It could take years before consumers believe their efforts are sincere and as soon as I saw that title I was like one hundred percent. Yes, there is this huge push, especially because younger adults now right like that, I would say eighteen to thirty range, are going and we want brands that are that care, that show that they care about what we care about. We all like brands like that. But then at the same time there's this skepticism on the rise that companies actually genuinely care, and I thought there was a a couple paragraphs here that really tell the story. So I'll read this and then we'll throw it to conversation. But here's part of the article. Brands have a reflex that if there's a holiday, they want to post about it, said Nicole pen, president of Full Service Agency EGC Group. But one post a year won't cut it for brands hoping to convince consumers of their commitment to lifting up different communities year around. To earn trust, brands need to commit to meaningful investments in a limited number of issues that are significant or relevant to them, according to pen, and for topics they're not well versed in, she said, it's best to keep quiet. We need to have this conversation more because the larger the brand, the more they're trying to be everything, all things to all people, and it shows a lack of genuine honesty and care about the things that like you can't be compared, but you can't care about all things. So, Dan, I'll start it with you when you hear this, like, what's your initial response to this article, and even just the piece that I just read? The article really made me think a lot and I think it's not so much that people don't trust it as a lot of these social justice things have, I think, from the public standpoint, has become a permission to plaything, kind of like if you're for it, then they're just kind of like, okay, whatever, if you're but if you don't stand for it, then then they come after you almost like hey, what the heck, you're not compassionate enough, or whatever, whatever it is, and I'm like, Gosh, so unfair. Actually think it is just not very kind. I think it's my belief, and I almost wrote this at as a blog linkedin post today, but I think busy, ethical business, have to phrase it with ethical business, is a social good in and of itself, without doing anything extra, providing a ethical service or product that is valuable enough for someone to pay their heart earned cash for. In exchange for is providing a the world a good in some way, because it's a lot easier to do nothing and to serve nobody and only be out for yourself. To work all, to put in all the work of starting the business, getting the capital, making the thing or providing the service is going above and beyond. It sours. Some companies do this remarkably well, some companies less well, and that's why the companies that do it well get paid more. So I find business to be an inherent good if it's ethical and being done well, without like destroying people, the environment or are the economy in the process of doing it right. There's so many ways you could do it wrong. So I think people actually stifle innovation a little bit by putting thea setting the bar up like way up here for companies, and the only companies that can do everything the like the world wants them to, which is have a moral cause and give so much money to nonprofits and employees work only four days a week and have infinite amount of vacation, also get paid top of market and dis perfect across the board. I'm like, yeah,...

...the only companies that can do that out of the ones that are freaking made it, and all the companies that struggle and are trying to get there are not going to get there because they were trying to do too much at once. Anyway, that's my hot tick. No, I think it's a good point on the fact that business at its most basic form, like ethical business, like your it's a great add to the world. Like, like we should be a plotting that from the very get go, and it would also make us a lot more honest as humans if we were to go I don't have the bandwidth to care about literally every single one of these things, like nope. So we're going to stand behind a few things that are core to us or we're going to also, you could just choose to like kind of be quiet on some things, and by having that more focused voice, people are going to believe you more when you do something. I even think, even though this is a really old example, like you look, get like a Tom Shoes, and the only reason they're successful back then is because they genuinely took on that model, because they had at a genuine care for that type of structure. Now you have all these brands that come on after that go like Oh, we'll give away one thing too, and it's like, yeah, it doesn't work really, because you saw a business model that worked and now you're just replicating a business model. Not that you can't replicate the empathetic heart. So now people aren't buying in the same way, they aren't thinking about your brand the way you think they are, because it's just you came at it with a like a different level of different level of depth, and so even when I see big brands like Oh, cool, you changed your logo colors or you, you know you stood behind this campaign from like a social post way, it actually creates to me a greater gap and distance between like how I perceive your brand and, yeah, it just feels kind of removed or like you just doing it to jump on. Actually have a different take on the Tom Shoes ripoffs, but I think the problem, the reason why they other companies didn't take off is because their products weren't great and they made their differentiator was the cause, but the differentiator for Tom's wasn't the cause. There's actually they had awesome shoes that were new and interesting. He actually tested it to make sure the shoes were cool first, that people are like, oh, these are freaking fantastic, and then he added the story on top of it about the one to one thing in order to make them good. Everybody else is like, oh, that's the model. I'm like no, he actually brought some pretty freaking awesome shoes to market, and then the story was the extra that really took it up the notch. Everybody else was at just added the story and it's like they had eyeglasses. You're like yeah, but it's not any better than any other eyeglasses. Right as I did the same thing. He they made a remarkable car that people wanted. It just so happened that it was better for the environment. To write. Yeah, it was like the extra I gave Tesla, the the extra edge, and it's it's advantage. I think that's at least that's might take them. What happened? There's this whole topic has been sliced in dice the hundred different ways. I think it's pretty cool. One for the cause, though, before people think of the product, like I think, without thinking. They know that the products good, but they always just they think of the cause first, which is really neat and goes to show they've done it well. I mean, you can't be all things to all people. So I think that if you don't have you shouldn't talk. A brand shouldn't talk about social issues if they don't have a passion for that social issue or if they're not on some sort of real mission to to aid that issue. I think it's better, kind of what vent you was saying, for them to be silent on that rather than to to pander to people, because people can see right through that, like consumers can see right through the brands that change their their logos for a month or whatever, or are saying things but are not backing it up. So when you sent us this article, Benjie, I immediately was like that's I have no disagreement with this statement. Like it's going to take years for consumers to believe when brand speak out on social issues, because it also seems like it's such a it just exploded within the last couple of years that brand started doing this like so of course they're going to appear more distant genuine because of the political landscape and everything, and so I think it's important for brands to pick a cause and lean into it, but only if they are actually doing something about it. I love that you said that at the end, because that's one more place I want to go. Is, I do think brands having a cause is a good road to go down. Like how do? You don't have to do it, but why not? Like we do want to make the world a better place in all the ways that we can. If there's some things that we talked about it all the time, to the point of Nauseum of like be to be is,...

...it is. needs to be personal, right need. We are real people, and so if that's how we're thinking, like what, what massive impact can we have collectively together as a company, as an organization, like let's let's do some of that, whether it's publicized to everybody or not, whether it's a campaign that you run or not, like, because wherever you have a group of people you have an opportunity for good, you might as well, if someone's passionate about something within your organization and you can get behind that in some way, like, explore those options. So to me, it's what's sad about this is the more companies field than need. Like if, if we don't do this, we'll get boycotted. It's either they go all in because they're afraid that they'll get boycotted if they say nothing, or they just remain completely on the sidelines. On the other side, hope no one says anything. Can they just like stay out of the news completely? And in that case then it's like they never actually get in and and find a cause that they could stand behind. So I hope, because there is a younger generation of people that do seem to be pretty like cause driven, and there's goods and bads in that. I just hope that the good ends up winning out. I think there's a lot of potential, because this conversations coming to the forefront, that good can come from it. But it's never going to be all good, right. There's always going to be some of this like pandering and stuff that we have to navigate. One final example I'd love to give as a company that is went all in on one cause, and it's a webhosting company out of eastern Eastern Europe called WPX Donnet, and the founder it's funny because he champions something that I'm not particularly passionate about, but they are and they use it in their marketing and they're genuine about and they show how they do things about and they're the founder and like really loves dogs, so he pumps all. They all the whole focus. So the is nonprofit stuff is around, like dog shelters, and that's it. I've even I worked for a nonprofit previously and I asked for a discount because it's pretty common for companies give nonprofit discounts. Of like now we only give distance dog shelters or actually just give it to them for free, but that's our nonprofit work and I was like respect, respect. It's not what I'm into, not that I don't like dogs. Like dogs. Dogs are fine, but it's not like the cause that I would have picked. and honestly, it's genuine and they could put a focused effort on that one thing over time and show an actual result from it, which I kind of admire. I'm like, you know it, they're just going to go after one thing and just do it, or try to try to do that remarkably well, not that they have to, because they provide a freaking great web service in and of itself. Everything else is just cream on the cake. I'm very thankful that they have a great service because I use it personally. Sweet, not professionally, but, and I'm thankful for that, but good for them to try to do a little extra. Well, I think that's a good point. I think a lot of brands think that they're these like three or four causes that they have to support, when there's like a whole range of them. It's almost like, how can you not be passionate about like one cause when there's so many out here? Like, how can you not pick one? And you don't even have to talk about it at a time, but just like be about it. You know, if you are a big big enough brands like you should be giving back somehow. I mean that's not going to say like you should be doing that. I personally think like that's a really cool thing and that's something that, like, if I had a company, I would love to do. Not that you have to do it, but there's just so many social causes that were like, for whatever reason, thinking that it's only a few, and I think it's interesting Dan that you bring that up, because a lot of people might not even realize that that's what they're their causes. They might even look at, you know, what they're not talking about, and that's another things. People look at what you're not talking about and persecute you for that when you are talking about other good things. So it is. It's a tough one to you're going to lose probably some way, but there's it's very admirable to pick one social issue and stick up for it. So I'll end with a story. When I was in high school we went to feed my starving children in Illinois. There is like this nonprofit and basically there's teams of people and you pack meals and then they send those meals overseas. And so I was there with like a church group and we were there at the same time as a very large I won't say the name of the brand, but they were there. Is A cell phone service company and it was like a headquarter thing, like a way of giving back, and so they all showed up in their shirts and they're all you know, they're taking photos and all the stuff, and you have to go through like a fifteen twenty minute training before you go into start help making these meals. and The lady was doing our introduction and she likes specific quickly...

...pointed at all of us and we're like I was again, I'm in still in high school, and she is like they're here for the right reason. He's like, I don't know why all you guys are here. We're glad that we have the hands to help. But she literally told them, analyze your heart before you go in there, and I want you to show up like them. And I've thought about that so much because I think in marketing we end up in a place where we like, Oh, this will look so good for social media or this will look so good for social posts. And when I read this article I thought of that because I'm like, dude, I don't want to show up for the wrong reasons and I don't want to show up because, yeah, you like have to, you know what I mean, like I don't want to do anything in my life for that. Like I want to show up genuine and honest. And the fear that I have in marketing is that we make things so shiny that it's like everything has a, I don't know, some crappy thing behind it where it's like I'm I'm actually twisting your arm. I know how to say this the right way. So now I'm like and I just I hope that as brands and as the things that we're creating, when we're giving back. We're giving back for the right reasons, and so that's where I'll leave us. Is just, man, if we're going to do something for going to pick something like, just do it for the right reasons and not just for the public accolad or whatever. So good topic, great article. You can go read it again. It's on marketing brew their blog, so check them out, marketing brewcom. We are going to jump into today's full conversation. It's a throwback episode, Dustin off and old, old conversation, but one that is ever green and still applicable. So here we go. Let's I've in. Today I'm joined by a new friend, Russ Long. Welcome in. Your the VP of global marketing at gloat. That is quite the title, but glad to be here and get to chat with you today. Man, thank you for having me, Benjie. Absolutely so. Twenty twenty two is here and I'm excited for this episode, man, because I don't know about you, but when covid hit, I feel like I blinked and two years pasted like times just flying by. But we're going to have fun and because it's the beginning of a new year, we thought we would sort of do what like an anti resolution episode. Yes, yeah, everyone's talking about the resolutions they want to make for the new year and everyone's thinking about what to do. So I've been reflecting a lot on what I don't want to do, what not to do in two thousand and twenty two, and so, yeah, it's a bit of an anti resolution list that we've been compiling, and I think these things are so timely to us and because it's so easy to hear in all of the noise like do this, you should try this diet, you should try this in your marketing, in your business, like. I mean that is everywhere. We're hoping that we give you some solace over the next few minutes to go. Here's here's five things I want to strategically not do right, like here's five things that will really hopefully just be helpful tips and things to be reminded of throughout the next twelve months and throughout the next year, and I think it's going to make us highly more effective in our marketing and inner work. So give me a little bit of your background real quick man, just so people have some flavor for you and kind of what you do day in and day out before we jump into this list. Yeah, solutely so. The quick background is, you know, I've been a marketing for a long part of my career. The name is rousselant to Bulletov, by the way, it's very Russian. If you're great nating. I was born in Moscow, Russia. So I live in the US now. I'm you're based in Manhattan, New York, but very tied to my roots and Russia, family there. And Yeah, I started my career actually on you know, I moved to the states. That my we might get into some of those things where, you know, I've a very must cultural background. That kind of informs a lot of my marketing approach and I think about things. But started my career here in marketing consulting at a company called can't are retail, doing large scale consumer research. Learned a ton there around the consuper mentality and mindset, decision making, pricing, packaging, all those things. was a google and Youtube for a very long time. Could we could do a whole episode on that. Was An amazing experience. But for sure they're at a time when a lot of brands were moving into digital and mobile and youtube was becoming a thing. So we were helping a lot of the largest brands. Adapt there and then joined thrive global, which is the health about being company run by Rian Huffington, and was ended up being CMO there, chief marketing officer, after doing product and partnerships work as well. I was employee off team, grew that business like crazy and then most recently joined a company called gloat, which is in the kind of talent space, and I'm sure we'll up a little bit more about that, but I'm running the VP of marketing there, so running the preparations from, you know, demand to brand to product marketing and a few things in between. So I think a lot about, you know, managing a team, growing a team, scaling it and yeah, as we think about, you know, the year ahead, as we're planning the year, thinking about definitely what we need to do as a business, but also some of the things we might want to leave behind, which I think brings us to this conversation. For sure, that's a fun winding journey that it's going to be fun to just kind of tap into some of that today with you. Well, let's jump in here.

So we have a list of five things right, five things that we're going to resolve not to do, and I'll just throw it back to you. Give us the first one, and what's something that you're saying? I don't want to do this this next year, right. Yes, one is don't confuse urgent with important. Hmm, I think a lot of people hear about this. I'll give you kind of my perspective on why it's so important. You know, people talk about and and hopefully a lot of people think about. You know that our seeing the Eisenhower Matrix, if you have, and you should definitely Google it. It's this idea that I think a lot of times in our lives, especially in our work, you know, we'll get a slack, will get an email and we almost assign and we something to get done today or this week and we kind of naturally assign importance with urgency, like just because something is said to get done today, we almost automatically assume that it is important. I think I've been really catching myself, especially in covid error, thinking like what is actually really important in a moment and what is just seemingly urgent. And that's why, you know, it's very important always as you get a request. One of the things is rules I apply is slack and email or really good for telling you what's urgent. They're usually bad at telling you what's important like that. But your calendar, and of course you're okay ours and goal setting that you should be doing, but especially your calendar and a weekly basis, should be telling you what's important. Not always good to telling you it's urgent, but you need to find that balance between the two. And so one of the things I always do is, how do we look at our calendar, because you're making those decisions of like when do I have to meet with certain people? How do you prioritize those things? How much time do you set aside for working blocks? Hopefully you're doing that, but those are the decisions you've already made of where your time should be spent in the rank order. But a lot of times we get distractions that we say, Oh, maybe something's Bargin. So how do we actually make sure we're always aware and think about that Eisenhower Major? If you won't have time to go through it, I can talk for an hour about it, but how do you always know and ask yourself, is this truly important and urgent or just urgent? Yeah, actually so last month on be toob growth, we did a throwback series and we referenced believe it's Kevin Cruz, but he talks about he'd he interviewed all of these like billionaires and he compiled like time management tips, right, and the most important takeaway from that whole episode for me, and bringing it back really, was the idea of time blocking, which I think is something that's talked a lot about in in marketing or highly like efficient successful people. I've heard that so much, right, but we go through seasons where like we're really busy Z or were really not, and have that consistency to actually work us towards like okay, I'm putting this on my calendar, I'm putting this in my schedule and I'm doing that consistently. It will help you really determine what's most important right now. So I love this one because I raise my hand as so guilty of the slack hits, the email hits and all the sudden I'm just I'm just distressed to do you find that personally for you your kind of that personality type. Yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm guilty of it too. You know, I'm the first to be guilty to like say I have an idea or there's something game in or we heard, you know, from the CEO or someone. We have an idea. You know, it's like part of the management is definitely deciding what to pass along. But I'm the type if I get excited about something, it's very hard for me to hide it. I think one of those two things I actually do myself that I try to empower my team to do. I think the first one you mentioned, by the way, the calendar, is very powerful. There's two others. One is the idea of big rocks. Is Very important and I try to instill that in our team. It's very hard to do, but Stephen Cubby did this like ages ago and there's a funny video because it seems so old but it's still so relevant. It's this idea that you try to fill a jar and you start with the pebbles and sand, you won't leave room for the actual big rocks, but if you start with the big rocks, you will owe the sand and pebbles will fill in and around it, and so the same container can hold much more if you start with the big rocks, and that is actually I try to instill. That's like, what are the three things you're going to do this week that I absolute priority. It's so natural for people start listing four and five and six and seven, but on my team how I manage, how I try to say what are the real top three? Yes, you can list other things if you really need to, but I just want to hear about those big three because those are the needle movers. And then ruthlessly prioritizing. We literally used to do this in my prettily previous organization. To is like how do you ruthlessly prioritize? And it's an amazing action to take. If someone gives you something to do and says this is urgent, go back to that person and actually have an honest conversation. Say Hey, I have these other three things that I was really prioritizing. I'll help me rank order this, help me put this in stack, rank this. It's so funny. A lot of people don't take that step, but it's a really human natural thing to just go back and ask like Hey, I have these other priorities, and it doesn't have to be neither kindescending nor aggressive. It could just beg hey, I kind of need your advice, like where do you think this stack? Pranks helped me understand the importance. I know their urgency help me understand the importance. So those are some things that I'm introducing. Yeah, the overcommunication of where something is on the priority list is so helpful for the team. But it also shows that if you know to your boss or whoever us like, it shows that...

...you're taking responsibility. Right like that, you're really thinking through the process, you're really owning it and going, okay, what's most important to our business right now? It's most important to our department right now. So that's really ruthless priority. I love how you said that. I think that's a really good way of thinking about it. Let me ask you this. You say that you talk about the top three every week. What does that look like and how does that compare to maybe your quarterly goals or longer term goals? I think it's a great segueing to actually number two for me, because I think what we just talked about is very effective on a daily, weekly basis. I think the second rule, I called it in my kind of list, as I'm thinking about the year, don't sweat the small stuff or don't day it distracted by the small stuff. But really what that is is like think about the big bets, like what are the actual needle movers over the course of a quarter, half a year, maybe even more, because I think top three, you know, is a really good thing for weekly. But I think it realistically, when you're sending Okrs, you're setting kind of objectives of the court. You need to think a longer time horizon and there's gonna be more things you do than just three. I think a lot of companies actually forget to set those and like make those big bets, and I've been up through that, especially when you're smaller. I don't know if people listening in there, and you know, either seed stage or series a, series B, it's very easy to not have an okr process. But I'll tell you, like as a manager, even for yourself, just setting at the beginning of a quarter the goals that you hope to achieve, even if they're complete assumptions, it's so incredibly powerful because when you're on the grind of building a business, and by the way, this was true google to and we have tens of thousands of people oak but okay, ours are so well established and organizations like that. It's almost harder when you're smaller. I think you have to, because you'll see time goes by and all of a sudden three months go a quarterbind. You almost don't remember how much you achieved, but if you look back at that elige original list, you can have made a lot of progress. The question then becomes how do you set those priorities? That's the hard part and just one of the things I'll just share on that and the pauses. Somewhere in the business, even if you don't have metrics, there are goals that exist because even if you're at seed stage, there's someone, either the CEO or the head of finance like, goals are being set and communicated, whether it's to a board or investors, etc. Goals exist. So it's a matter of figuring out, starting with the business. What are the business goals? What is the board expecting? For sure investors expecting. Those things exist. If you're in a private company in public, you know a lot of this stuff is public. And then the second piece is think about like what is the rest of the organization doing? You know, ask around like easier product team. Do they have a bunch of releases happening that you can support if you're in marketing? But it can also be any other CS, like wherever you are in the organization, and then, only then, do you set your own kind of and make up your own goals. So for me, that's a big part of it is definitely think about Ok ours in the quarter and then think about what are other teams in the organization, what is the business expecting, so that your your priorities almost fall onto that. Hmm, I love that and I totally agree. The earlier the better. So let me give you a story. Last company I worked for introduced okay ours, but we were already scaling and growing quite a bit right. So then the headache that it is to try to implement and share the vision of an Ok our system when you're already moving so fast, like you can do it, right, if you're listening to this and you aren't there yet, like I don't I don't want to discourage you, I want to encourage you into it, but I will say, like, the earlier on the better, because you set that culture early and it's like we already have the format, we already know where to reference all this stuff. It's already built in and versus, like a man. Well, now we have all these people that were trying to like align and you know. So just lead from the top and start that now, or lead from wherever you are in the organization and read up on it. There's so many videos on youtube that can help you with okrs too, like but I just think the earlier the better for that, because it's such a headache once you have a lot of people involved. I think that reframe is so important to like it's really can't it won't work if it feels like, Oh, it's a chore, we have to do an upper management decided and the CEO said we're going to do a cares the power of it and why I'm realizing how important it is and how now I want every single person. I very clearly defined objectives and the key results. As you see how powerful as it is as a motivator, like when you launch a campaign. We had this campaign, we were launching you. We sat at the outside. You know, last year we did this campaign similar and we had about fifteen hundred leads come in or Mq owls who said what if we doubled it? What if we got to Threezero? And then you had people like you had the project manager on the team almost accounting everyone else, even senior management, even the CEO, being like we need to get to three thousand, like we're clearing the calendar. Going back to this prioritization. The reason we knew, like this campaign, we had a goal. I said, everyone on the team became obsessed more than I did. I wanted three thousand. Sure, I'm compensate on that in a way, you know, like that's my goal, but it became everyone's going. So when you set those objectives, even if they're crazy or unachievable, honestly, like it's still rallies someone and it really inspires them to all focus on one thing and it could be very powerful. HMM.

So, okay, so don't get distracted by the small stuff. That's our second on the list. One of the things here that to be thinking about is like big creative campaigns across channels, right, like so for marketing, like where are we going to create buzz and and kind of move the needle? Talk to me a little bit about how you think about that. So it's not just a small stuff, but it's like this is really what we're focused on. Yeah, it's such a good point. I'll give again how we could talk a lot more about this. But I think the quick insight is even as a leader, you know, says marketers, a lot of us are all the perfectionist, and I'm definitely guilty of this, where I'll like, I'll want to edit the you know, the one piece of content we have, or even the social post. But actually, what I've been really realizing, especially as you think about you know, when I do two thousand and twenty two planning, I actually looking at targets for two thousand and twenty three, and that's like, especially as you at by place in the Organization of your vp or ahead of, let alone Dr c level, you know you're thinking years ahead. And so this idea that you can't, you really can't be sweating the small stuff. And what I really recommend people do, and I've been doing this, is like it's also not about two marketing to just invent things right. It really is kind of going back to what I was saying, like let's look at what is the board expecting, what is the business set to do, and then ask the series of questions, like what is marketings roll in it? Okay, let's say you have that close a hundred deals. You've said you're going to close a hundred deals in q one, okay, what is marketings roll or the expectations of marketing? How many of those are going to be mark getting sourced or marketing originated? How many of those are going to be marketing influence? Maybe it's a hundred aligned on those expectations and then say, okay, how do we get there? Some of them, I come from product releases and that's the idea. Is, I guess it cross cell up cell. Is it? You know, those new deals are they are we doing the legacy products or some of the new products? are their new segments for going into? There's all these questions to ask. Is You're setting those big priorities and that's why I think about you can either get caught in the linkedin post or the twitter, the tweet or the or the instagram post, or really have like these strategic view and whatever you are in the organization, I think starting from the top down and thinking about like how do I contribute, even in the smallest way, to the biggest metric? I think that's important. And then marketing really, to me, has to fill in the gaps. You either supporting some of those things, like product launches. Okay, how do we activate product, it's product marketing, it's probably demand, it's probably content, like all of us need to come together to launch the new product or a new segment. But then there are other things where, like, Hey, we don't have a product launch, maybe we have a loaf for six months, and that's where you introduce events, that's when you introduce campaigns. Maybe you want to kind of come up with something new and creative that you haven't done before, and that's why I think then the your own big bets kind of come in in that way. So that's how I think about there's probably a lot of different frameworks for it that we can discuss too, but that's at the high level how I think about it. There's so much to think about there. The one thing that you said that to really sticking out to me is like right questions, right results, because if we have the wrong questions or we don't ask enough questions and we're just trying to you know, I wouldn't say we're trying to just get by right, but if you ask the right question to the right person, it can really help give you that like okay, this is the big thing that we need to be focused on and, like you said, when you're really high up and you're thinking further out, those conversations are are vital and making sure that you're you are asking the strategic question. It's like such a big deal. Absolutely all right. So we have first one, don't confuse urgent with important. Second don't get distracted by the small stuff. Here's the third one. Don't copy and paste. Expand on that a little bit for me. What is that all entail? Yeah, I think this one, you know, could have been true. I think even as we were entering Covid I think a lot of people realize it's some of the old ways or no longer in apply. But I think it's been interesting because I have heard this, you know, as we work in the talent space, we work with h our leaders. I think there's this sense that there's going to be a return to normalcy and that we can kind of go back to the way things where I think a lot of people realize it's probably not realistic, but I actually realize like this is such an opportunity, especially for our team, to kind of reimagine everything, where I think this ongoing uncertainty is going to exist, like the word kind of continue being hybrid we're going to continue being, you know, remote and we are managing a global team. I almost can't predict where I'm going to hire my next marketer. You know, it's kind of where the talent is will go, and we don't know where the markets going to head. And also like this speed with which competitors are introduced. You know, it's so easy to start a business. There so much funding. There's like there's so much uncertainty. So for me, I'm like really big right now on taking the playbook from the past year and saying, how do we kind of rip it apart, like what if we re envisioned everything? And to us this might be a crazy thing, but I'll tell you, like it's just I feel so empowered when I decided to do this. We're actually looking at all of our historical metrics and like our host historical team structure, and I'm just revisiting all of it. And so as we enter the new year, and these are not easy things, right, because people like some kind of sense of you know, like it's the way things were, but oh, yeah, there was selling...

...them on. Yeah, but this idea, like where does the content sit and what are the objectives of content? Write this idea of like how does actually content play in sales acceleration and how do they actually almost become unified partners with the BDRSDR team and not just like you know, a lot of the companies will think about content as the blog or the linkedin channel or their tweets or whatever, but it's so much bigger than that. It actually is is incredibly powerful tool that I really believe sits across the whole stack, all the way to the sale, all the way to renewals. Where and so that change is the way you might structure a team and changes though KR scape, as it might change even discussions you have internally to say, Hey, we maybe the board shouldn't just be hearing about mql's and leads anymore from the marketing team. What about renewals? What about how we accelerate sales cycles? And there's a lot of these conversations that need to have. Please go ahead. Okay, wait, because I want to hear you expand on the renewals portion, like when you're reimagining this, thinking about it, how do you see content in that kind of like fuse together? What's the connection you started to draw? There's two things I've been thinking a lot about one and this is a perfect exam and maybe this is kind of no brainer, but customer marketing is a is a very important role. I think that a lot of organizations don't hire four early and I didn't actually in the past year and a half or so a boat. But it's very important because you think about how are we actually maintaining the relationships? Of course you have an amazing customer success team, but that's the reality is. You know, there are a lot of times in the weeds. They're like making sure the product is working really well. They're looking at kind of the day to day, week to week operations. Are they seeing growth? But they're not necessarily always kind of creating the low within the organization. Say Hey, do you need advice from another customer? Do you want to get invited to a customer community event? Do you want to give us feedback on the Future Product Road Map? And these are all basics. I think when you're in large organizations like a Google, they're just happening somewhere, but establishing that function early and really thinking about, okay, how does customer marketing play in? But then what is the rule of content and community and that's a really important question. A lot of companies aren't thinking of. I definitely wasn't until more recently, because companies might love you, but they might need advice. And okay, where's we just finished stage one, we finished the pilot, we're about to scale everyone else, or hey, we want to expand to our frontline workers. It's a perfect example, and this is a lot of technologies people are selling. Probably we often times optimize for the desk worker, you know, slack, etc. I think about all these technology we talk about every day that we are using right now, zoom, etc. There for a certain part of the population. But we're about we actually have an offering for front mine. No one has really solved that in the whole industry. So this idea that you know that we can just anyone can come and answer that for them is impossible. It's actually going to be about community, about learning from each other and then about generating content and then inspires the next company or the next batch to actually say, Oh, you know, this is how this could be done. Now that is all renewal and upset, by the way, because these are existing customers. But I think the way we actually leverage marketing to connect the right people, to create community, to create content from the learnings. Those are all the things that I'm thinking about. How do we actually automate and scale that? There's a lot of learning to be done. But once we established the baby to be gross listeners, we want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to B TOB growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus. The first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two, letter be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to enter and look forward to hearing from you. Some people need to rewind the last two minutes and re listen to that, because I think that thought process. Some of the questions that you're pondering. You don't have to give an answer. I think this is something I'm learning in podcasting around a lot right now. Is it when we just focus on what is a strategic question? What something like you kind of brought it up. Of Okay, this is the historical way we've done it. I want to just imagine what it'd be like. I'm not even saying we have to blow it up, I'm not even saying we have to change it. But when's the last time that we said this isn't just like concrete? The way we're for sure doing it over the next twelve months. And when you start to think about customer marketing, you're right. A lot of big companies get it really well right because they got the budget to hire somebody to think that way, whereas a lot of smaller companies are going, all right, well, we just have to you know, we just had to get more customers. Like that's that's the only thought process. But I'll give you another story, another example. spotify. I know they're a huge example, but a way that they've done this really well to get hyper individual. I'm an early adopter and they sent me a message. I can't even tell you how long ago this was, man, this was probably several years ago. I had forgotten about it.

They have a product team that was developing a new product and it was going to basically be like think of almost like a tablet for your car. And it's going to be. If you don't have a test love, you don't have like a newer model car that has some epic big screen in it already, go ahead, if you sign up for this, will send you one for free, so you're not on your phone while you're driving. Here's a here's a screen, right. So they're thinking about the customers that are you on? If you're already a customer, you're eligible. Just give us your email, like, sign up this little form, give us a little bit more detail and whatever. They message me like two weeks ago and like they're still developing it. They're like hey, it's ready for you. So, like and it's again. It's just like they didn't have to do that, right, they could have made it only available to new customers, but it's this ongoing thought process of like how can we up our customer marketing? What other value can we add to them? That it's really impressed me, and that's it's a big example, but there's there's definitely other ones for sure. So I love this and that's a perfect example of like that's where you need to believe in not copying and pasting to enable an idea like that and that's why that's like a pretty such a big part of that, because the customer marketing pieces is just one of them. You know, it's like how do we actually think about the next year and actually try entirely new things? It might it might mean. As another example for us, it's you know, I think a lot of times people talk about this like no lead form movement and like really focusing and doubling down on ABM. But I'm like it's a tough transition and we're just going to do it and basically told the team is like we're going to rip the BANDAID. I'm going to start stop looking at our enterprise funnel as a funnel entirely. I almost have them starting these conversations and basically need alignment all the way up to the board. Is Like I actually don't want it to be about mqls and leads for a large part of our book of business, because we have a target account list. We know the named accounts. How do we actually create a super high touch initiatives that allow us to actually grow those businesses from? And that's the inverted pyramid. You know, there a lot of models, but it's so hard to make that pivot like everyone talks about it on podcasts and I've been talking about it for a long time too. How do we do it? But we're doing it this year because I basically said I refused to copy and paste. I'm I'm almost throwing away the old benchmarks that we have and we're just going to create a new model and we're going to try it. We're going to try over q one, Q two. We're not going to rip it completely, you know, we're going to still make sure we're creating a funnel so we don't kill the business, but I'm going to invest heavily until, like, what if we just inverted it and actually did a large part of investment focusing on the accounts first and growing it from the bottom up. So those are the things, like you need to basically be comfortable with, not just copying and basting and trying new things. That is we could spend so much time there. I love that and okay, let's keep things moving, so don't copy and paste. Bring us to number four. What do you got for this one? Yeah, so slightly different, but I think to enable everything we just talked about, especially some of the creative ideas, one of the things is hiring. You know, it's a huge challenge for us right now. How do we get the right people? And what I learned, especially over the past year, because, you know, I'm we're in the space where the talent hiring space, but you talk to other marketers, it's really hard to hire out there. It's hard to retain talent. You know, at the great resignation, or great we call it the reassessment. It's real. And so the one thing that's really important is don't overlook the talent you have. Right I think a lot of times we start looking, we get a this is we get obsessed with this idea of a go I need a new role, so I'm going to go external. I'm going to post it on linked it. Like if you think about I'm going to hire someone, where do you go? You see your first thoughts probably Linkedin one hundred percent job board. Almost none of us say like, well, let me think about the people that I already have at the company, and even if a tiny company's by the way. And so I'll share one example from from us. You know, we reporting on our event, our big yearly event called gloat live, and it's a really big deal for the company. It's like it and as of course it's big as marketing makes it. But we wanted to make it a really big deal and I actually did not hire an events in field marketer in that time, so I didn't have anyone to own the globe line. And so instead of saying like Oh, I have to hire someone or bring on an agency or look external, I said what if we just created a team from within? And so yes, I had a couple people from marketing and I had some designers from marketing help, but then we pulled in designers from the product team, we pulled in customer success manager, WHO's supporting? We pulled in someone from the product the there is some of them. We had a product designer, we alls had a product manager. We got almost every executive involved in different ways, and not just to present but to really think about like how to activate. We had office managers involved to make it a really powerful in person experience. So we literally had this massive working team. I was created a team and events team just using talent from within and we've seen that for part time projects like that it's an incredibly powerful thing. They think we will often overlook the power of just assembling a team and swarming kind of to something, but it's also for hiring people. One of my like most amazing talents in their organization right now was an account manager who actually rose, basically raised her hand and said, Hey, I'm...

...kind of interested in marketing, and we gave her an opportunities an account as a marketing manager and as a marketing coordinator with a start, and now she's actually leading incredible initiatives, leading some of my biggest kind of pains, and also is like a special ops person. But it was all because we gave a chance to someone from within. That's not always possible. Sometimes you have to go and like you need the right experience, you need the right, you know, skill set, but there's amazing talent within your four walls. And so rule number four, don't for two thousand and twenty two for me and then everyone else out there, don't overlook the talent you have. So let me ask a couple follow up questions here, because I think this is one that I would definitely be behind. But I also can hear a couple questions just rattling around in some people's minds. One being great, you are able to assemble this team right, but how do you know if you're not like this is just too much work on their plate. I think that's an instant reason why people would go out before hiring within or forming that special team to swarm. It's okay, well, we're already kind of all hands on deck, pretty full. So how did you assess that to know we can pull this off? And then I'll have one more question, but answer that one first for sure. I love that. That's actually goes back to a glow. This is appropriate to just say what we do, because it's like something that question I actually think about on a day to day basis. We basically created something called the talent market place, which is allows people on one side, we understand the skills within an organization and dynamically match them to kind of work in jobs to be done, and I could be full times, but can also be projects, etc. What you're talking about is actually the number one objection we always face. Is like when we sell our product, and it's actually an amazing reality what ends up happening. And we so we work with like you know, lever, Master Card, you know I just BEC massive companies, nest, lie, you name them, and what happens is that people actually get more engaged in their day to day job because they are actually contributing in something bigger than their day to day job. And is have we are this time and time again, and it's obviously really hard to quantify, but they we actually have. So, you know, leaver always measures how many hours of productivity were unlocked, and this is purely for projects, not full time roles, not jobs, which is they've basically in a couple of years of working with us, have had six hundred fiftyzero hours unlocked and their retention. There were always measuring also impact on retention and all of that. And so people it's this weird thing where we're in an I reality where people are burnt out, they're tired. A lot of that if you really dissect because I think people it's it they're they feel like they're work is kind of meaningless or they're not working on things that matter to them. And so what this kind of project, like everyone that worked on glowed live was exhausted at the end, for sure, but if I asked all of them like how engaged they were, how passionate they were about glowed, how excited they were, I almost guarantee you we didn't do this survey. I kind of tempted. Now I I almost guarantee every single one of those people feels more of like a loyalty and engagement to glowed because we were part of something really special and meaningful that everyone at the company was, you know, kind of noticing in a part of. So I guess that's kind of perspective on that question is a really important one, though. I think you hit on something that actually brings us back to when you were talking about customers in that sense of community. So it can happen with employees and it can happen externally, right where it's like you connect people back to community, you connect people something bigger than themselves, like, Whoa they thought of me. It's the same external as it is internal. To just go that, yeah, it's going to build brand loyalty, but I almost don't even like calling it that. It's just like this. It's essentially it's just human connection and it deepens. Oh, they see my value in a department that's not normally mine, in a seat that's not normally like I'm not normally invited to. So there's a lot there. Let's let's round it out here and the fifth one is this. Don't forget to recharge. Why is this one something that's really important to you personally? I think as a manager, as a leader, it's you have to really be thinking about this going into the next year. I mean it's been a really tough two years and you know I'm based in New York right now. You know the even the beast few weeks. It's like never ending kind of the uncertainty, and so just really acknowledging that everyone's been working really hard. All the things I just talked about right there. They're hard. They're not easy things. They're exhausting to ruthlessly prioritize right and to focus on big things right, like to not sweat the small stuff. Takes Energy to like not confused Ursion with important takes energy to try something new so you don't copy and paste. Mean these are not easy things. I think there we have an amazing opportunity to focus on those and do all those in the new year. But all of that can be really exhausting and I think there's you know, we're working hybrid. Were glued to screens, there's all this data around. Obviously that and the toll that's taking on us I think the longer we stay here, kind of the human connection piece gets harder. I think really prioritizing is a leader, both taking time yourself but as an individual, to first and foremost just realize that you are better off for yourself...

...and even for the company, like if you're a company person, you know you want to like a career oriented person, it's actually better for your career you take moments to recharge. There is amazing car too, and I know if there's a way for you to maybe share with audience later, but a lison molly. Always have these great cartoons, but there's this there's this visual basically of like a straight line. Work, work, work, work and then you get sick and it's a cliff and that's the reality. Right. Most people think like, Oh, I'll stick the idea, I'll sleep what I'm dead, or I'll rest, you know, whenever like it. Rest is for the week like that pure meates still society even now, which is crazy to me. But people don't realize that the real way to do it and that the alternate right next to that of the peak and then the fall is just a step ladder. It's like work, recharge, work, recharge, work, recharge and then what happens is at the end of the line, one person is still like on up and up and the other one is exhausted and kind of ready to quit or give up or maybe even worse. So for me that's a really important one. Is, as an individual, recognize they reach. Charging is a sign of strength. It's really important. It'll make you better at your work and also more pleasant person. It'll make you more creative, innovative. There's tons of science around that. We won't get into that. But then second is a leader, and this is really important, is really role modeling it and celebrating it, because a lot of times we might say that but we don't actually celebrate it. So there's little things I'm trying to do. Like I'm taking off in two weeks, in that very near future, and I've been very clear with my team. You can't reach me, you can't slack me, you can't email me. I will be off the grid, just no, no negotiation. If there's a super emergency you can call me, but I'm not checking. And then when I come back, I want people to Shay. I'm going to show off my pictures. I want people to show off pictures of how they relax, even if it was a stacation, but I want to actually create an environment where that's celebrated. I think a lot of us can actually do more of that. I love that. I think sharing when we come back is also a it's a fun part of like how you would build that culture that we don't think about. Like you might celebrate on the front and like Oh yeah, go take time off. That's pretty I would say that's getting them a little bit more common. But like when you come back, how you respond who asks you about it, you know you might had a great time and if it's reinforced in the culture there, it's just another way to make it a deeper, more impactful and of always celebrate rest in a unique way in our organization and our company. So I love that. Man, this is a great list. I'm going to recap US real quick, but before I read the five, I will say I'm taking away ruthless priority as as a new phrase. That was all the way back from number one, but I just I think that that is a way to think about things if you're naturally just a busybody or you have a lot on your plate, which I know, if you're listening to this, you probably do so thanks for making time to listen, right, but ruthless priority is is a phrase that I think would really be helpful over the next twelve months and just into the future. So, okay, here's our here's our list. We got five. We don't confuse urgent with important, we don't get distracted by the small stuff, we don't copy and paste, we don't overlook the talent we have and we don't forget to recharge. And excellent list of five things, sort of our anti resolutions. Anything you would add before we wrap this episode? No, just help. Everyone stays healthy and happy and we're whether you're listening in the new year, wherever, whenever you're listening, I think it's it's going to be an exciting year. There's a lot of opportunities in the marketing space. It's that ever changing landscape. Some things are going to be exciting, some things are challenging, but I think I'll always seeing it from the reframe of an opportunity and you stick to that last point, don't forget to recharge and roll model it. I think we can do a lot of great things that push the marketing industry forward. So thanks to everyone that anyone that listened. For sure. How can people stay connected to the work you're doing? Plug glowed a little bit. Just give us ways that we can stay connected. Yeah, absolutely. So linkedin definitely the place where I spend most of my time. To just look up Russelan, Trusla and T. hopefully you find me that way and yes, I'm VP marketing and gloat. Yeah, we're doing some amazing work. If you know, if especially larger organizations, is kind of our sweet spot right now. We're working with some of the largest brands to really help them unlock the talent within those organizations, understand the skills and capabilities that exist today, where they need to build up skills and capabilities moving forward, and then helping them dynamically match that jobs and work to be done. So, whether you're launching an ice cream brand somewhere, I'm just asembling a team to do an event or hiring from within or finding mentors, etc. So, yeah, if anyone is in the market for a talent market place, absolutely reach out to me. But if anyone wants to chat marketing or exchange ideas, Linkedin is definitely best. Great and we'll make sure we link to your linkedin in the show notes to so people can can jump over and also to gloat as well. Thanks for listening. TO BE TO BE GROWTH.

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