What Have You Done for Your Customer Today?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Olivia Hurley talks to Gizem Ozbay, Global Marketing Director, Integrated Marketing at Abbott

Yeah. Hi everyone, welcome back to be to be growth. My name is Olivia Hurley and today I'm joined by Gizmos Bay, the Global Marketing Director. Integrated Marketing at Abbott is um how are you doing? I'm great thanks Olivia. Thanks for having me. Of course. Well I'm super excited to talk to you just starting out here from your perspective. I'd love to know what are the differences between and similarities between B two B which we talk about here on this podcast and B to C. Marketing. Yeah. Great, great question. I don't think we have a lot of people who have experienced in in both business models. I did have the opportunity to, I spent the first um I guess half of my career PNG and B to C. And then the last six years at Abbott has been more focused on B. T. V. So I am a big believer that there are more similarities than differences. Of course there's nuances in terms of you know, the decision makers, the sale cycle in kind of the complexity of the business model. But when it comes to principles of good marketing, I think there are more similarities than differences, there should be more similarities than differences. If we kind of shift the focus from, you know, a shiny tool is chinese channel chinese object to actually what really matters at the end of today for your target audience and make sure we're doing things right from a strategy perspective, I think there are a lot of commonalities actually between B two B and B to C. Marketing. Oh that's that's fascinating. It's actually something that, you know, I've been so immersed to be to be that I haven't necessarily pulled my head out and said, what are the similarities and differences? That's actually really just helpful for me and my education. So you were talking about how there's just a lot of overlap, but what are some of the differences between the two that B two B marketers need to be watchful for sure. I think, you know, if you kind of obviously, I don't even want to generalize B two B, obviously there's different, very different industries within B two B. Um it's very different dynamics, but in general, kind of the total available market in B two B in terms of like, you know, the number of people that you have in your universe if you will. Uh in terms of the purchasers or, you know, decision makers are a lot more limited in nature than B two C. I mean, just to put it in perspective, cybertron Gillette, which obviously a multi billion dollar brands, huge market share. You know, more than half of the people, half of the men around the world are using Gillette's, we're talking about like magnitudes of billions of people making plans, marketing plans to reach to billions of people versus right now, the space that I'm in, for instance, is interventional cardiology. The total available market globally because it's such a...

...specialized, you know, industry in specialized category. Um the total available market is around 50,000. So all of a sudden now we see the dynamics change in terms of. Okay, so what is my total universe? Um you know, what do I need to do within that, who are the right segments? What do I need to do to reach out to those right people and then how do I take them through a journey to the purchase funnel? It doesn't necessarily happen quicker and need to be. But again, it's such a defined, measurable and finite number of people that gives you the opportunity to do different things from a customer relationship management perspective. You know, there's opportunities for you to kind of deepen that relationship. Focus on portfolio salaries was kind of increasing the penetration of like new products. So um there are definitely those differences. I think some of those obviously hold true um you know, for different industries as well, I mean there's some B two B relationship between like large CPG companies, consumer good companies and retailers, like, you know, PNG has a business relationship with wal mart in the nature of that relationship and the marketing plans are different than what we would do direct to consumer. Again, that's feelings of people versus B two B. You're talking about like one account, potentially multiple stakeholders and decision makers and you're kind of mapping out the strategy that's really customized um for that business to business relationships. So I hope that makes sense. I think the questions you're asking should be the same, the answers might be slightly different in terms of how many people, what channels are they actually currently on? How do I get them engaged? And what I have to say? Yeah, Oh my gosh, that was such a good rundown. I'm curious. So, B to C is about the product, Is that true for B two, B? Very much so, which I'm not sure it's the right thing. Product is important. Your value proposition is extremely important, which should be actually beyond what you are selling as a tool, as a as a gadget, if you will. But me to see a lot of the B2C companies, at least the consumer packaged goods industry, I would say is actually more focused on consumer needs. So, because they've been doing it for a very long time, obviously most of them um and it really all started North Star if you will for a lot of those companies and brands or consumers, So, you know, understanding consumers there need their unmet needs, their journeys, their personas, this significant amount of investment that goes into that to make sure you're really grounding yourself on the consumer need, before you worried about, you know, your product specifications and attributes, you need to build into your next platform. So I think it needs to be world and again, I don't want to generalize that each company is doing it differently. Each industry is a little different if you're in a cutting edge, you know, industry where your, you know, driving innovation, you know, dynamics is just different than, you know, in an industry where there are a lot of comparable options, but we tend...

...to fall in love with our products. Um indeed to be, it's really because we have product managers in B two B, whereas, you know, CPG usually their brand managers, so they think about the experience that brand is providing the consumers that the brand is targeting. So I think there is definitely more Affinity with the product then the the end consumer and customer and B- two b. That really needs to be questioned. Yeah, the the idea that maybe product is king and should influence a lot of the marketing strategy, that sounds like it's a misconception. It is, it is important. Again, I think product is important, but the king, um, you know, it should really be consumers, the customer, that should be the North Star in terms of like why are we, who are my designing this product for at the end of today? Because if you start with that, what you are also going to avoid is potentially competing with other products that you might have in your own portfolio because we are so siloed in our own kind of product teams, you know, there's product a product, product, see between the same company structure, they all might be targeting the same consumer, the same customer at the end of today. But again, we are so incentivized to try to do the right thing for that product or that platform versus the end consumer that we actually end up frustrating the customer. You know, they don't get like val orchestrated experience, They might actually be getting conflicting information. It's such a destroying that experience from a consumer perspective, customer perspective. But if you start with that, that actually incentivizes the teams, you can still have product teams, there's no problem with that. But that can incentivize the product teams to actually make decisions with the end customer in mind. Yeah. Tell me more about this idea of a great strategy coming from consumer insights rather than I guess product innovation. Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of methodologies that are available out there in terms of like, you know, how to incorporate those customer insights, you know, customer needs into your product roadmap. So there's some some companies are doing it well. There are some companies that are just focused on kind of, you know, what is going to be new and different versus my previous version. So it's very technically focused in terms of like, okay, these are my attributes. Currently, these are my attributes that I want to build tomorrow and then like kind of what is the, what is the road map to get there, but not really truly understanding the changes in customers lives, right? Because maybe that category is becoming irrelevant altogether. Maybe there's actually, you know, a new company that you really initially didn't consider in your competitive set, but now, you know, some of what they have to offer is actually solving for their needs, you know, what they're looking for. So it's, it's really important to kind of ground, you know, yourself and the in the customer insights initially and then work on your product strategy...

...accordingly. Because if your product strategy is really solid, you should be able to answer these questions on life. Here's a landscape, what's happening in my consumers world. Here's specifically that needs and here's what we're anticipating or the course of like four or 5, 10 years depending on how long your roadmap is and then really position your product well in terms of how we are going to solve for those needs, what was the impetus in your belief in this type of strategy with leading with customer insights? What caused you to think that way? I guess, both in my career at PNG and Abbott, the most insightful, the most memorable honestly and the most helpful time that I spent at the time that I spent with the customers themselves. Like, you know, it doesn't mean that like you're having a dinner conversation, it might be literally like doing in home visits, kind of trying to walk in the shoes of the consumer customer, like a day in the life, you know, I spent weeks in India actually like going into people's homes um and really watching them, you know, while they're shaving, which I know it sounds very interesting growth, but it gives you a whole different perspective in terms of, okay, this is their life and this is very, you know, the kind of the role of my product in that, you know, in their life and kind of like in kind of hierarchy of needs very close and like what it does for them versus looking at the report and there's nothing wrong with, you know, a secondary research or looking at those reports to say, here's the percentage of consumption in each country. That's very, very helpful indeed. But walking in the shoes of the customer, the consumer really opens your eyes same in health care. So, you know, I spent days and you know, um surgical labs very obviously a lot of our products are used and you know, cardiovascular disease is important. Obviously it's devastating for patients and their caregivers. But you sit down with them and have them talk to you about like what happened, you know, how they first um you know, hear about this disease or have they ever heard about the disease actually? Harvard it diagnosed And what was that journey when they've gone through the treatment and what happened after the treatment kind of old ups and downs, they've gone through um you know, themselves and their caregivers, it gives you a whole another perspective as a marketer to find the right angle to even speak to them. I mean you might still use the same product. I mean maybe your product strategy is not going to change, but how you communicate with them and you know, how do you think about what's most important and as part of your kind of innovation um roadmap is changes completely when you actually try to spend that time and walk in the shoes of the customers. And again, I've done it in B two B. I've done it in B two C. And we we changed literally after those, you know, pieces of research. I don't even want to call them research. It's really like emergence. We used to call them emergence of PNG like you immerse your entire team into it. It was actually like research and development, supply chain marketing sales. They were like representatives from key cross functional um departments to just like...

...take time, go out, immerse yourself in the life so if your target and consumer customer and then come back and tell me what you're trying to do that completely. You know, in in I mean, these are two major examples. I try to do it in all of our major launches for the campaigns and product launches. If it confirms what you're trying to do validates what you're trying to do. Amazing. That means you're actually good at kind of listening and like taking in these insights, ongoing basis, but most of the time given we're so busy, like in our offices, like doing our own thing, um we don't have enough time to actually like spending time with our end customers and consumers. Usually it actually changes the strategy all together. And I think it's actually an amazing thing to be able to do that before you even go down the path and develop a whole new products and launch it and to the after the fact and say, well why did it not work? I mean, it actually gives you the opportunity to course correct from the beginning and say, we we might need to question our strategy here. Maybe we're thinking about pricing um, you know, in the wrong way or maybe we just need to kind of think about positioning this altogether differently because of, you know, what you're experiencing and seeing um through these emotions. So it really gives you a whole new perspective, what do people stand to lose by not using customer insights to guide the strategy. I would say ultimately it's really revenue and growth. I mean it's everything and that's a whole another discussion probably in terms of like the role of marketing and, you know, kind of the skill sets we need to focus on and how do we actually keep the seat at the table. You need to be able to tie all your marketing activities and spend an investment to revenue at the end of today if you can't, if you can tie it to the revenue, if you cannot tie to a growth target then and whatever you're doing is gonna be obsolete in the short term, If it's not obsolete now, it's going to be obsolete in the short term. So it really should be tied to revenue. Uh, in terms of like if you're not getting it right either, you're not maximizing the potential growth, you're limiting the growth potential, you might end up losing revenue, which is worse. Obviously, the world can turn upside down in terms of, again, what's happening in the category, what your competition is doing. So it really, I think the biggest risk is business results, are there scenarios where a B two B company wouldn't lead with customer insights and it wouldn't benefit them. Yeah, I think a lot of people think of the steve jobs called when this comes up, in terms of like, you know, consumers don't know what they need. I think he actually based that code off of Henry ford vehicle, um, and he said, if we asked them what they wanted, they would probably say a faster force. Of course, again, if you're that cutting edge, if you're steve jobs and you're coming up with the first ipad, you're taking a lot of risk if you haven't done any consumer research and the truth is, he did, I mean, he truly understood kind of the dynamics of the market, even though they were the first movers right being...

...a first mover in a whole new category gives you a whole new advantage that a lot of us don't have if you're working in one of those companies or spaces where you're the only player first and only, and you're kind of defining the category. I think you have a little longer time to waste probably on things that might be wrong or sub optimal. Again, I'm not saying you're gonna fail immediately. Um, but you have a little more room to play in terms of like experimenting and actually defining, um, you know, what needs to be done in the category. But I think it's really the exception to the rule when you put it in perspective. Um you know, a lot of times, I've never worked in a category where you were the first ever movers uh, into the space. A lot of the times, you know, you're, you're one of the leading ones. If you're lucky, you might be a follower brands, um, you're competing with multiple other comparable options. So it's really hard to argue that you can actually get away with not doing any customer research. And I would say of course, if even in a very established category, the consumers are not technical experts. That's why I said, like, you know, doing market research is important, but absorbing consumers in their own worlds. It's even more important. It gives you a whole another perspective because they might not be able to articulate, you know, for you even like what type of razor they need next? They don't know, they can't, but they can tell you, you know how shaving makes them feel or like why is it important for them to actually show their sons how they're shaving when they first start shaving like those moments, what what it means for them, why they're choosing this trend brand compared to the others And you know pricing like what is the, what is the value of spending um $10 on online brand versus you know, 3040 that might be out there right now like premium and so you know, they'll tell you what's going on in their world, their motivators and drivers and barriers. They're not technical experts. If we are asking them what is the specific product attributes you're expecting me to build in the next product. It shouldn't be literal like that. I think that's actually what you know, Henry ford months initially as well. Of course if he has, if he asked them, they would have said a faster horse, but I mean if you take that as a marketing because marketing is is an art as well as a science, right? You know, if you take that and say they are trying to go from point A to B in a faster way, how can I do that? Again? It's all about I think asking they're listening and then asking the right questions, it still gives you the right perspective in terms of, okay, what they need is speed, What they need is convenience. Um, how do I give it to them versus saying? Well of course they said faster horse, which doesn't exist. It's our job to define those technical options in terms of if this is the end benefit that they're looking for, how can I provide options to them to help them get there. That that sounds so fascinating to me because it's one of those concepts where you hear it and you think, oh of course, but so many...

...people strategies are built out in front of them that it's not angled that way. It's not the impetus is not customer insights. And so I'm really excited for people to hear that and see how would this work for my company. And is that what I'm doing already? Are there ways that I can infuse it even more and and have those not only stronger relationships with people who know that you're listening to them, but then a stronger product and the stronger um, brand message you had mentioned the last time we talked that that product is King has that and building strategy around it has the the downside of like innovation for innovations sake and not listening to customers moving quickly, that kind of thing. But another thing that you mentioned that I really want to impact here is you had said that the thinking that product is King doesn't support the CMO and the thinking of the CMO or the future business model and I'm wondering, could you impact for me what that means. I try to touch on it briefly here as well when you asked like, you know, what would be the consequences of like not doing it right at the end of today. I think the role of marketing is either ill defined or very loosely defined. Unfortunately in a lot of the companies and part of the reason, you know, I think a lot of the CPG companies are known for doing getting it right and doing it well is mainly because a lot of the managerial roles in those companies are taken by people coming from marketing that are really close to consumer insights. You know, they're good at developing strategies, but they have accountability from a revenue growth perspective, that's why, you know, if all you can do and if you're specialized in such a way that you're almost like, like you're a technical expert, um, either from a channel perspective, product perspective could be from communications perspective, but you cannot kind of connect the dots with how all of these impacts revenue at the end of the day. You know, you know, evolve your model, evolve your activities, evolve your resources and investment in a way that actually drives revenue for the company. You're gonna lose that seat at the table at the board level. Right? So there has been, I attended compliance um, for the last few years actually they have certain tracks for like CMoS, um, to attend. And a lot of what they've been talking about is the role of marketing and how it's actually evolving. And some companies, even the large ones you guys might have heard of these announcements, they illuminated the CME morals and it's shocking or like, wow, you think this role actually might not be necessary in some large companies? Why is that? And then you see these kind of other functions gaining like very strong power. Like, you know, the sales functions. Yeah. IOS are like, you know, it's because it's, we haven't been clear on kind of how marketing, the role of marketing should be being the voice of the customer at the end of today. And it's the glue function in my mind should be that blue function and...

CMOS role is to be that glue function to bring it all together. Right? Like it should be able to, you need to be, you need to know enough about these things to kind of orchestrate and drive the company's strategy in the right direction. You don't have to go as deep on kind of like platform strategy, innovation, strategy. Like, you know, sales go to market strategy, there's definitely expertise needed and all of that. But as we think about the role of CMO, especially if you're inspired to be one, uh, in the future. I think it's important to kind of broaden that business understanding the even that was business understanding broaden your perspective in terms of ultimately how is what I'm doing right now, even in a day in and day out basis, I will just probably encourage people to kind of take a step back and think about how you spend your day and then think about how did that help move the business? You know, we used to literally like lead with this question in a lot of our business studios at PNG, you know, are you helping move cases, meaning like, are you, is this helping the sales, like whatever you're doing at the end of the day and of course some of those are longer term investments. Absolutely. So I'm not saying like brand building is not important for long term investments are not important. But still there's methodologies for you to tie brand reputation to sales, there is methodologies to tie, you know, kind of the strength of your innovation pipeline to, you know, sales so short term or long term, you still need to have a line of sight into, you know, I have a way it means to measure and no, you know, if what I'm doing is actually helping move the business, grow the business or not. Um, so it's, it's really important, I think, you know, as the landscape gets more complicated and there's new channels and new tools and you know, new capabilities available to marketers, you can, you can choose to be a specialized person, you can choose a specialized track, there's nothing wrong with that. But if you aspire to be a CMO, if you want that seek to remain at the board level so that the CMR role is not eliminated ultimately in that company that you're working at or U. S. Fire to work. And that's really important for you to be a business leader first. Um and then be able to tie obviously again the marketing strategy that plans to that business strategy, if there's no CMO who takes ownership of marketing. Honestly, that's a good question. That's less of my concern so that it will be probably divvied up between whatever functions are available, maybe like a communications group, sales, you know, some of it could be, you know driven by the innovation group for the product group. However, they're actually kind of structuring it internally. I think the question really should be, who's going to take care of the consumer, like who's going to worry about customer, like who's going to think about the customer experience in some of the very progressive companies they actually now have underneath marketing usually should be, in my, in my mind, customer experience managers, customer experience experts which...

...really like they are actually grounding everyone back and like customer needs and customer experience. Um it's really more of orchestration, right? Like the other functions are actually not going away, but it puts your portfolio strategy in perspective. It puts your channel strategy in perspective, so it really brings it back to, you know, what is in it for the end customer and you know, helps you ask the tough questions in terms of I do have the right product strategy, do we have the right pricing strategy? Do we have the right to go to market strategy? The right promotion strategy? So I think that's the question we need to lead, but if there's no marketing function who owns and who's responsible from that customer explains and and business growth, aside from these immersive experiences, you're talking about listening and gleaning customer insights. Are there especially for those aspiring to be CMOS? What are the tactics that marketing practitioners need to be doing daily or you know, over the long the long term um to take care of the consumer? Yeah, I think there's the good news and bad news maybe is there's just a plethora of resources, especially secondary market research that uh you know, kind of scans the landscape in terms of like overall trends, you know, social media consumption habits, you know, digital consumption habits, services and solutions that are available in the market, like consumer habits and practices. I would encourage you obviously depending on your category, there's nuances in terms of which ones are more important and relevant for you and your specific role? If you're in a more upstream role you might be more interested in, you know diving deeper into kind of like the innovation and, and long term strategy versus if it's a downstream role, it's different different in terms of like, you know, how tactical you need to get from a channel consumption perspective for instance. But there is, if I think if you kind of remain curious, you know, in the space, in terms of like what's happening in the lives of my consumer and how does the world really evolving? Right, Because some of these are kind of macro trends um, that you can monitor and observe. There's a lot of kind of good leadership type of materials out there. There's again, maybe too much like podcasts, white papers, you know, I would just encourage you to kind of probably prioritize the topic areas of interest. Start with a couple. Don't overwhelm yourself because I mean if you say, hey, I'm gonna spend five hours each week doing this. It's unrealistic. We know you're, we're all busy, There's enough going on. Um, maybe literally start with like blocking an hour on your calendar. That's what I used to do. Uh initially now it's more scary addict whenever I get time, it's usually at night or weekends. Unfortunately whenever I can catch my breath with all the, you know, competing priorities, but you know, start with an hour on your account there, blocked that time, protect that time and then give...

...yourself a kind of a learning agenda for the weight based on kind of what you might have, might be hearing or again, some of the things that might be already in your inbox from these, you know, services that you subscribe to and then listen for start following and listening. If it's, if that's, you know, publisher is not helpful or whether a channel you're providing is not useful switch. Like you don't have to, you know, kind of continue to do the same thing if it's not working for you switch but make sure that our is protected. It's valuable. And then try to ask yourself the question at the end because I think application of those insights are important. Like a lot of the time to be go through the report or listen to a podcast or like, oh, this is great. I feel so inspired right now and then we run into a meeting and then like we forget about what we actually like why why was I so inspired? So try to take some time at the end, like five time minutes maybe just captured or announced in terms of like this is why this is interesting or this is how we can apply some of these learnings to our business and then if it's really relevant for your team and if you want to discuss it more broadly, um pull that team together and say, hey, let's just like this is what I read, you know, uh, let's read it together or I want to share my insights. So I'm kind of how we can leverage some of these best practices in our space. But I think it's really being intentional about your learning experience is very, very important because you know, I think that's, that's actually a leadership quality, you know, regardless of where you are in the organization, if you're a VPN organization or Stephen as CMO, honestly, it doesn't mean that you have all the answers, you know, I can, good leaders are the ones that are able to ask good questions and they remain curious. Um, so you know, don't, don't think like, you know, your directors, your, your VPs or CMoS have all the answers. I think this guidance stays true for everyone. I still try to do it you know, myself because the landscape is changing so fast, right? Like especially on digital right now, a lot of the senior leaders and marketing are leveraging what's called reverse mentoring, which is like they are actually being paired up with like younger, you know, people in the organization to be product managers or like even like interns who are digital natives to learn something, right? Because they're definitely out the experts. I mean I don't want to generalize that most of them are not experts. They didn't grow up with a lot of these channels and technologies. So they are digital adapters versus digital natives. So um I think it's, it's also, it should be the culture of the team in the company as well to say, hey we all need to constantly learn and grow and you know, build our capabilities and skill sets and being intentional about your kind of learning agenda protecting that time on your calendar. Um and then making sure you're giving yourself some time at the end to to capture your thoughts and learnings and force yourself to think how can I apply this to my own business and ask yourself, like you were saying, how does this help move cases? How does this move the company forward for somebody who wants to recalibrate their strategy so that it's now customer led by customer insights, How do you recommend they start? Each company has a process. Usually it might be very...

...loosely defined if it's not defined at all, if you cannot like put on a paper your innovation process in terms of like, here's how we actually go from an idea concept to execution. It is a problem, I would start with that if you want a process like document your process, but I assume you have a process, ask those questions are like very in that journey, are they actually getting during that process? Are we getting customer insights most of the times. Unfortunately it is after the fact after we build the product, we think about how we, how do we position it in the market? How do I communicate and like it after the fact, so you know, really scrutinize like especially in the upstream part of that process, do we have the right steps in the process to actually immerse ourselves and the customers. You know, once you need some drivers and barriers and how are we taking in those insights into our innovation process? Right. Because again, if it's only like one person from marketing doing this and that person is trying to communicate with the rest of the team, it's better than not doing anything. But it's, it might not be as helpful for the technical experts like research and development folks or product folks to truly appreciate, you know, where you're trying to take the um, technology. So, um making sure you do it in the right way and you might be more of the right people in the journey. I think it's also important, you know, as you do that and giving your it does, you don't have to over complicated, but I would pick the battles and make a commitment as a team and say, okay, maybe we cannot, maybe for some of the projects we have um, that are going on right now, it's too late. The train has left the station, but for this upcoming one, maybe start with a smaller scale project if you think it's gonna be harder to comments organization to like do something differently, but pick it, pick your battles in terms of very my pilot this approach and just like work with some internal champions. Um, that are also believers hopefully or can be turned into believers on kind of convincing the larger group on, you know, doing it right, documenting it and going through this journey together and piloted so people can actually experience the difference versus kind of the old way of doing it if it doesn't work and because change management is probably like 80 90% of my job right now, especially with the transformation the industry is going through, you know, from a digital distraction perspective, you might do all of this and still not see progress in terms of like, you know the change you're trying to drive in the organization, you can always consider like bringing external expertise and have consultants, you know, speak to the group about like best practices, right? Because a lot of these best practices exist. Um it's not only like me having done this before, you know, a lot of the again, P B two C companies are using it, even in B two B, there is very well documented processes that can be leveraged. So if you feel like, you know, you might be lacking the credibility or kind of influence an...

...organization to drive that change, you can consider potentially engaging with external firm, a consultant to actually come in and share some of those best practices with some case studies on, you know, here's how they've done it differently and here's how that worked for that specific company, sometimes we like to hear what we already know from other people too. Act again, you might believe in that, but for you to act and you know, create that burning platform, it might help for you to hear it from a third party that is more objective because um if there was one thing that you wanted listeners to get from this episode, what would be the necessary take away, what have you done for your customers today? Literally like I want people to think, you know, after this, like think of your day, your week, your month, whatever is the right time frame for you because you might be just consumed with one project for the last five months and that's fine. Think about that project. You know, if if your role is very dynamic and every day you do like slightly different things like really think of like what have I done today that is going to meaningfully impact the experience of the cost customers and that's ultimately gonna drive that behavior change, right? Because obviously you talked about the business impact like driving cases, driving revenue, that is really the end results. There's a lot of leading indicators and a lot of, you know, drivers that gets you to that end result and a lot of those are, you know, more behavioral goals in terms of like, you know, persuading people creating awareness, driving engagement. So, you know, you really need to have clarity in terms of, okay, well we've done the program you've launched in the last month is gonna help build reputation with a new group that you've never engaged with and the reason I know you're on the right track is like abc you should be able to articulate those things if you can't, don't feel bad, I don't think you're alone. Honestly, you might be in this, you know, kind of silo like trying to check the box and just get like keep the project rolling. Maybe you've never questioned like it or not. The processes are, you know, built correctly or if you need to think differently, but you know, pausing and asking yourself, those questions can get your next big project on the right track. Oh my goodness. That is so succinct so eloquent. I'm super excited for people to hear this. You've provided. Just such a rich information. I'm excited to go back and think about how you know, what have I done for my customers today? What have I done for potential customers? For people who want to learn more either about you or your company? How can listeners connect with you? They can connect me, connect with me on lengthen. So I'm on linkedin. I'm very, I try to remain active so they can search for my name. I will be happy to connect and counting the conversation. People on lengthen. Oh, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on GDP growth. Absolutely Olivia. This was a pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me. Me too. Yeah. Mm For the longest time I was asking people to leave a review of GDP growth...

...in apple podcasts but I realized that was kind of stupid because leaving a review is way harder than just leaving a simple rating. So I'm changing my tune a bit. Instead of asking you to leave a review, I'm just gonna ask you to go to be be growth in apple podcasts, scroll down until you see the ratings and reviews section and just tap the number of stars you want to give us no review necessary. Super easy. And I promise it will help us out a ton. If you want a copy of my book, content based networking, just shoot me a text after you leave the rating and I'll send on your way, Text me at 40749033 - eight.

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