What Have You Done for Your Customer Today?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Olivia Hurley talks to Gizem Ozbay, Global Marketing Director, Integrated Marketing at Abbott

Yeah. Hi everyone, welcome back to be to begrowth. My name is Olivia Hurley and today I'm joined by Gizmos Bay, theGlobal Marketing Director. Integrated Marketing at Abbott is um how are youdoing? I'm great thanks Olivia. Thanks for having me. Of course. Well I'msuper excited to talk to you just starting out here from your perspective.I'd love to know what are the differences between and similaritiesbetween B two B which we talk about here on this podcast and B to C.Marketing. Yeah. Great, great question. I don't think we have a lot of peoplewho have experienced in in both business models. I did have theopportunity to, I spent the first um I guess half of my career PNG and B to C.And then the last six years at Abbott has been more focused on B. T. V. So Iam a big believer that there are more similarities than differences. Ofcourse there's nuances in terms of you know, the decision makers, the salecycle in kind of the complexity of the business model. But when it comes toprinciples of good marketing, I think there are more similarities thandifferences, there should be more similarities than differences. If wekind of shift the focus from, you know, a shiny tool is chinese channel chineseobject to actually what really matters at the end of today for your targetaudience and make sure we're doing things right from a strategyperspective, I think there are a lot of commonalities actually between B two Band B to C. Marketing. Oh that's that's fascinating. It's actually somethingthat, you know, I've been so immersed to be to be that I haven't necessarilypulled my head out and said, what are the similarities and differences?That's actually really just helpful for me and my education. So you weretalking about how there's just a lot of overlap, but what are some of thedifferences between the two that B two...

B marketers need to be watchful forsure. I think, you know, if you kind of obviously, I don't even want togeneralize B two B, obviously there's different, very different industrieswithin B two B. Um it's very different dynamics, but in general, kind of thetotal available market in B two B in terms of like, you know, the number ofpeople that you have in your universe if you will. Uh in terms of thepurchasers or, you know, decision makers are a lot more limited in naturethan B two C. I mean, just to put it in perspective, cybertron Gillette, whichobviously a multi billion dollar brands, huge market share. You know, more thanhalf of the people, half of the men around the world are using Gillette's,we're talking about like magnitudes of billions of people making plans,marketing plans to reach to billions of people versus right now, the space thatI'm in, for instance, is interventional cardiology. The total available marketglobally because it's such a specialized, you know, industry inspecialized category. Um the total available market is around 50,000. Soall of a sudden now we see the dynamics change in terms of. Okay, so what is mytotal universe? Um you know, what do I need to do within that, who are theright segments? What do I need to do to reach out to those right people andthen how do I take them through a journey to the purchase funnel? Itdoesn't necessarily happen quicker and need to be. But again, it's such adefined, measurable and finite number of people that gives you theopportunity to do different things from a customer relationship managementperspective. You know, there's opportunities for you to kind of deepenthat relationship. Focus on portfolio salaries was kind of increasing thepenetration of like new products. So um there are definitely those differences.I think some of those obviously hold true um you know, for differentindustries as well, I mean there's some B two B relationship between like largeCPG companies, consumer good companies...

...and retailers, like, you know, PNG hasa business relationship with wal mart in the nature of that relationship andthe marketing plans are different than what we would do direct to consumer.Again, that's feelings of people versus B two B. You're talking about like oneaccount, potentially multiple stakeholders and decision makers andyou're kind of mapping out the strategy that's really customized um for thatbusiness to business relationships. So I hope that makes sense. I think thequestions you're asking should be the same, the answers might be slightlydifferent in terms of how many people, what channels are they actuallycurrently on? How do I get them engaged? And what I have to say? Yeah, Oh mygosh, that was such a good rundown. I'm curious. So, B to C is about theproduct, Is that true for B two, B? Very much so, which I'm not sure it'sthe right thing. Product is important. Your value proposition is extremelyimportant, which should be actually beyond what you are selling as a tool,as a as a gadget, if you will. But me to see a lot of the B2C companies, atleast the consumer packaged goods industry, I would say is actually morefocused on consumer needs. So, because they've been doing it for a very longtime, obviously most of them um and it really all started North Star if youwill for a lot of those companies and brands or consumers, So, you know,understanding consumers there need their unmet needs, their journeys,their personas, this significant amount of investment that goes into that tomake sure you're really grounding yourself on the consumer need, beforeyou worried about, you know, your product specifications and attributes,you need to build into your next platform. So I think it needs to beworld and again, I don't want to generalize that each company is doingit differently. Each industry is a little different if you're in a cuttingedge, you know, industry where your, you know, driving innovation, you know,dynamics is just different than, you know, in an industry where there are alot of comparable options, but we tend...

...to fall in love with our products. Umindeed to be, it's really because we have product managers in B two B,whereas, you know, CPG usually their brand managers, so they think about theexperience that brand is providing the consumers that the brand is targeting.So I think there is definitely more Affinity with the product then the theend consumer and customer and B- two b. That really needs to be questioned.Yeah, the the idea that maybe product is king and should influence a lot ofthe marketing strategy, that sounds like it's a misconception. It is, it isimportant. Again, I think product is important, but the king, um, you know,it should really be consumers, the customer, that should be the North Starin terms of like why are we, who are my designing this product for at the endof today? Because if you start with that, what you are also going to avoidis potentially competing with other products that you might have in yourown portfolio because we are so siloed in our own kind of product teams, youknow, there's product a product, product, see between the same companystructure, they all might be targeting the same consumer, the same customer atthe end of today. But again, we are so incentivized to try to do the rightthing for that product or that platform versus the end consumer that weactually end up frustrating the customer. You know, they don't get likeval orchestrated experience, They might actually be getting conflictinginformation. It's such a destroying that experience from a consumerperspective, customer perspective. But if you start with that, that actuallyincentivizes the teams, you can still have product teams, there's no problemwith that. But that can incentivize the product teams to actually makedecisions with the end customer in mind. Yeah. Tell me more about this idea of agreat strategy coming from consumer insights rather than I guess productinnovation. Yeah, there's there's...

...definitely a lot of methodologies thatare available out there in terms of like, you know, how to incorporatethose customer insights, you know, customer needs into your productroadmap. So there's some some companies are doing it well. There are somecompanies that are just focused on kind of, you know, what is going to be newand different versus my previous version. So it's very technicallyfocused in terms of like, okay, these are my attributes. Currently, these aremy attributes that I want to build tomorrow and then like kind of what isthe, what is the road map to get there, but not really truly understanding thechanges in customers lives, right? Because maybe that category is becomingirrelevant altogether. Maybe there's actually, you know, a new company thatyou really initially didn't consider in your competitive set, but now, you know,some of what they have to offer is actually solving for their needs, youknow, what they're looking for. So it's, it's really important to kind of ground,you know, yourself and the in the customer insights initially and thenwork on your product strategy accordingly. Because if your productstrategy is really solid, you should be able to answer these questions on life.Here's a landscape, what's happening in my consumers world. Here's specificallythat needs and here's what we're anticipating or the course of like fouror 5, 10 years depending on how long your roadmap is and then reallyposition your product well in terms of how we are going to solve for thoseneeds, what was the impetus in your belief in this type of strategy withleading with customer insights? What caused you to think that way? I guess,both in my career at PNG and Abbott, the most insightful, the most memorablehonestly and the most helpful time that I spent at the time that I spent withthe customers themselves. Like, you know, it doesn't mean that like you'rehaving a dinner conversation, it might be literally like doing in home visits,kind of trying to walk in the shoes of the consumer customer, like a day inthe life, you know, I spent weeks in...

India actually like going into people'shomes um and really watching them, you know, while they're shaving, which Iknow it sounds very interesting growth, but it gives you a whole differentperspective in terms of, okay, this is their life and this is very, you know,the kind of the role of my product in that, you know, in their life and kindof like in kind of hierarchy of needs very close and like what it does forthem versus looking at the report and there's nothing wrong with, you know, asecondary research or looking at those reports to say, here's the percentageof consumption in each country. That's very, very helpful indeed. But walkingin the shoes of the customer, the consumer really opens your eyes same inhealth care. So, you know, I spent days and you know, um surgical labs veryobviously a lot of our products are used and you know, cardiovasculardisease is important. Obviously it's devastating for patients and theircaregivers. But you sit down with them and have them talk to you about likewhat happened, you know, how they first um you know, hear about this disease orhave they ever heard about the disease actually? Harvard it diagnosed And whatwas that journey when they've gone through the treatment and what happenedafter the treatment kind of old ups and downs, they've gone through um you know,themselves and their caregivers, it gives you a whole another perspectiveas a marketer to find the right angle to even speak to them. I mean you mightstill use the same product. I mean maybe your product strategy is notgoing to change, but how you communicate with them and you know, howdo you think about what's most important and as part of your kind ofinnovation um roadmap is changes completely when you actually try tospend that time and walk in the shoes of the customers. And again, I've doneit in B two B. I've done it in B two C. And we we changed literally after those,you know, pieces of research. I don't even want to call them research. It'sreally like emergence. We used to call them emergence of PNG like you immerseyour entire team into it. It was actually like research and development,supply chain marketing sales. They were like representatives from key crossfunctional um departments to just like...

...take time, go out, immerse yourself inthe life so if your target and consumer customer and then come back and tell mewhat you're trying to do that completely. You know, in in I mean,these are two major examples. I try to do it in all of our major launches forthe campaigns and product launches. If it confirms what you're trying to dovalidates what you're trying to do. Amazing. That means you're actuallygood at kind of listening and like taking in these insights, ongoing basis,but most of the time given we're so busy, like in our offices, like doingour own thing, um we don't have enough time to actually like spending timewith our end customers and consumers. Usually it actually changes thestrategy all together. And I think it's actually an amazing thing to be able todo that before you even go down the path and develop a whole new productsand launch it and to the after the fact and say, well why did it not work? Imean, it actually gives you the opportunity to course correct from thebeginning and say, we we might need to question our strategy here. Maybe we'rethinking about pricing um, you know, in the wrong way or maybe we just need tokind of think about positioning this altogether differently because of, youknow, what you're experiencing and seeing um through these emotions. So itreally gives you a whole new perspective, what do people stand tolose by not using customer insights to guide the strategy. I would sayultimately it's really revenue and growth. I mean it's everything andthat's a whole another discussion probably in terms of like the role ofmarketing and, you know, kind of the skill sets we need to focus on and howdo we actually keep the seat at the table. You need to be able to tie allyour marketing activities and spend an investment to revenue at the end oftoday if you can't, if you can tie it to the revenue, if you cannot tie to agrowth target then and whatever you're doing is gonna be obsolete in the shortterm, If it's not obsolete now, it's going to be obsolete in the short term.So it really should be tied to revenue. Uh, in terms of like if you're notgetting it right either, you're not...

...maximizing the potential growth, you'relimiting the growth potential, you might end up losing revenue, which isworse. Obviously, the world can turn upside down in terms of, again, what'shappening in the category, what your competition is doing. So it really, Ithink the biggest risk is business results, are there scenarios where a Btwo B company wouldn't lead with customer insights and it wouldn'tbenefit them. Yeah, I think a lot of people think of the steve jobs calledwhen this comes up, in terms of like, you know, consumers don't know whatthey need. I think he actually based that code off of Henry ford vehicle, um,and he said, if we asked them what they wanted, they would probably say afaster force. Of course, again, if you're that cutting edge, if you'resteve jobs and you're coming up with the first ipad, you're taking a lot ofrisk if you haven't done any consumer research and the truth is, he did, Imean, he truly understood kind of the dynamics of the market, even thoughthey were the first movers right being a first mover in a whole new categorygives you a whole new advantage that a lot of us don't have if you're workingin one of those companies or spaces where you're the only player first andonly, and you're kind of defining the category. I think you have a littlelonger time to waste probably on things that might be wrong or sub optimal.Again, I'm not saying you're gonna fail immediately. Um, but you have a littlemore room to play in terms of like experimenting and actually defining, um,you know, what needs to be done in the category. But I think it's really theexception to the rule when you put it in perspective. Um you know, a lot oftimes, I've never worked in a category where you were the first ever movers uh,into the space. A lot of the times, you know, you're, you're one of the leadingones. If you're lucky, you might be a follower brands, um, you're competingwith multiple other comparable options. So it's really hard to argue that youcan actually get away with not doing...

...any customer research. And I would sayof course, if even in a very established category, the consumers arenot technical experts. That's why I said, like, you know, doing marketresearch is important, but absorbing consumers in their own worlds. It'seven more important. It gives you a whole another perspective because theymight not be able to articulate, you know, for you even like what type ofrazor they need next? They don't know, they can't, but they can tell you, youknow how shaving makes them feel or like why is it important for them toactually show their sons how they're shaving when they first start shavinglike those moments, what what it means for them, why they're choosing thistrend brand compared to the others And you know pricing like what is the, whatis the value of spending um $10 on online brand versus you know, 3040 thatmight be out there right now like premium and so you know, they'll tellyou what's going on in their world, their motivators and drivers andbarriers. They're not technical experts. If we are asking them what is thespecific product attributes you're expecting me to build in the nextproduct. It shouldn't be literal like that. I think that's actually what youknow, Henry ford months initially as well. Of course if he has, if he askedthem, they would have said a faster horse, but I mean if you take that as amarketing because marketing is is an art as well as a science, right? Youknow, if you take that and say they are trying to go from point A to B in afaster way, how can I do that? Again? It's all about I think asking they'relistening and then asking the right questions, it still gives you the rightperspective in terms of, okay, what they need is speed, What they need isconvenience. Um, how do I give it to them versus saying? Well of course theysaid faster horse, which doesn't exist. It's our job to define those technicaloptions in terms of if this is the end benefit that they're looking for, howcan I provide options to them to help them get there. That that sounds sofascinating to me because it's one of those concepts where you hear it andyou think, oh of course, but so many...

...people strategies are built out infront of them that it's not angled that way. It's not the impetus is notcustomer insights. And so I'm really excited for people to hear that and seehow would this work for my company. And is that what I'm doing already? Arethere ways that I can infuse it even more and and have those not onlystronger relationships with people who know that you're listening to them, butthen a stronger product and the stronger um, brand message you hadmentioned the last time we talked that that product is King has that andbuilding strategy around it has the the downside of like innovation forinnovations sake and not listening to customers moving quickly, that kind ofthing. But another thing that you mentioned that I really want to impacthere is you had said that the thinking that product is King doesn't supportthe CMO and the thinking of the CMO or the future business model and I'mwondering, could you impact for me what that means. I try to touch on itbriefly here as well when you asked like, you know, what would be theconsequences of like not doing it right at the end of today. I think the roleof marketing is either ill defined or very loosely defined. Unfortunately ina lot of the companies and part of the reason, you know, I think a lot of theCPG companies are known for doing getting it right and doing it well ismainly because a lot of the managerial roles in those companies are taken bypeople coming from marketing that are really close to consumer insights. Youknow, they're good at developing strategies, but they haveaccountability from a revenue growth perspective, that's why, you know, ifall you can do and if you're specialized in such a way that you'realmost like, like you're a technical expert, um, either from a channelperspective, product perspective could be from communications perspective, butyou cannot kind of connect the dots with how all of these impacts revenueat the end of the day. You know, you...

...know, evolve your model, evolve youractivities, evolve your resources and investment in a way that actuallydrives revenue for the company. You're gonna lose that seat at the table atthe board level. Right? So there has been, I attended compliance um, for thelast few years actually they have certain tracks for like CMoS, um, toattend. And a lot of what they've been talking about is the role of marketingand how it's actually evolving. And some companies, even the large ones youguys might have heard of these announcements, they illuminated the CMEmorals and it's shocking or like, wow, you think this role actually might notbe necessary in some large companies? Why is that? And then you see thesekind of other functions gaining like very strong power. Like, you know, thesales functions. Yeah. IOS are like, you know, it's because it's, we haven'tbeen clear on kind of how marketing, the role of marketing should be beingthe voice of the customer at the end of today. And it's the glue function in mymind should be that blue function and CMOS role is to be that glue functionto bring it all together. Right? Like it should be able to, you need to be,you need to know enough about these things to kind of orchestrate and drivethe company's strategy in the right direction. You don't have to go as deepon kind of like platform strategy, innovation, strategy. Like, you know,sales go to market strategy, there's definitely expertise needed and all ofthat. But as we think about the role of CMO, especially if you're inspired tobe one, uh, in the future. I think it's important to kind of broaden thatbusiness understanding the even that was business understanding broaden yourperspective in terms of ultimately how is what I'm doing right now, even in aday in and day out basis, I will just probably encourage people to kind oftake a step back and think about how you spend your day and then think abouthow did that help move the business? You know, we used to literally likelead with this question in a lot of our business studios at PNG, you know, areyou helping move cases, meaning like,...

...are you, is this helping the sales,like whatever you're doing at the end of the day and of course some of thoseare longer term investments. Absolutely. So I'm not saying like brand buildingis not important for long term investments are not important. Butstill there's methodologies for you to tie brand reputation to sales, there ismethodologies to tie, you know, kind of the strength of your innovationpipeline to, you know, sales so short term or long term, you still need tohave a line of sight into, you know, I have a way it means to measure and no,you know, if what I'm doing is actually helping move the business, grow thebusiness or not. Um, so it's, it's really important, I think, you know, asthe landscape gets more complicated and there's new channels and new tools andyou know, new capabilities available to marketers, you can, you can choose tobe a specialized person, you can choose a specialized track, there's nothingwrong with that. But if you aspire to be a CMO, if you want that seek toremain at the board level so that the CMR role is not eliminated ultimatelyin that company that you're working at or U. S. Fire to work. And that'sreally important for you to be a business leader first. Um and then beable to tie obviously again the marketing strategy that plans to thatbusiness strategy, if there's no CMO who takes ownership of marketing.Honestly, that's a good question. That's less of my concern so that itwill be probably divvied up between whatever functions are available, maybelike a communications group, sales, you know, some of it could be, you knowdriven by the innovation group for the product group. However, they'reactually kind of structuring it internally. I think the question reallyshould be, who's going to take care of the consumer, like who's going to worryabout customer, like who's going to think about the customer experience insome of the very progressive companies they actually now have underneathmarketing usually should be, in my, in my mind, customer experience managers,customer experience experts which...

...really like they are actually groundingeveryone back and like customer needs and customer experience. Um it's reallymore of orchestration, right? Like the other functions are actually not goingaway, but it puts your portfolio strategy in perspective. It puts yourchannel strategy in perspective, so it really brings it back to, you know,what is in it for the end customer and you know, helps you ask the toughquestions in terms of I do have the right product strategy, do we have theright pricing strategy? Do we have the right to go to market strategy? Theright promotion strategy? So I think that's the question we need to lead,but if there's no marketing function who owns and who's responsible fromthat customer explains and and business growth, aside from these immersiveexperiences, you're talking about listening and gleaning customerinsights. Are there especially for those aspiring to be CMOS? What are thetactics that marketing practitioners need to be doing daily or you know,over the long the long term um to take care of the consumer? Yeah, I thinkthere's the good news and bad news maybe is there's just a plethora ofresources, especially secondary market research that uh you know, kind ofscans the landscape in terms of like overall trends, you know, social mediaconsumption habits, you know, digital consumption habits, services andsolutions that are available in the market, like consumer habits andpractices. I would encourage you obviously depending on your category,there's nuances in terms of which ones are more important and relevant for youand your specific role? If you're in a more upstream role you might be moreinterested in, you know diving deeper into kind of like the innovation and,and long term strategy versus if it's a downstream role, it's differentdifferent in terms of like, you know, how tactical you need to get from achannel consumption perspective for instance. But there is, if I think ifyou kind of remain curious, you know,...

...in the space, in terms of like what'shappening in the lives of my consumer and how does the world really evolving?Right, Because some of these are kind of macro trends um, that you canmonitor and observe. There's a lot of kind of good leadership type ofmaterials out there. There's again, maybe too much like podcasts, whitepapers, you know, I would just encourage you to kind of probablyprioritize the topic areas of interest. Start with a couple. Don't overwhelmyourself because I mean if you say, hey, I'm gonna spend five hours each weekdoing this. It's unrealistic. We know you're, we're all busy, There's enoughgoing on. Um, maybe literally start with like blocking an hour on yourcalendar. That's what I used to do. Uh initially now it's more scary addictwhenever I get time, it's usually at night or weekends. Unfortunatelywhenever I can catch my breath with all the, you know, competing priorities,but you know, start with an hour on your account there, blocked that time,protect that time and then give yourself a kind of a learning agendafor the weight based on kind of what you might have, might be hearing oragain, some of the things that might be already in your inbox from these, youknow, services that you subscribe to and then listen for start following andlistening. If it's, if that's, you know, publisher is not helpful or whether achannel you're providing is not useful switch. Like you don't have to, youknow, kind of continue to do the same thing if it's not working for youswitch but make sure that our is protected. It's valuable. And then tryto ask yourself the question at the end because I think application of thoseinsights are important. Like a lot of the time to be go through the report orlisten to a podcast or like, oh, this is great. I feel so inspired right nowand then we run into a meeting and then like we forget about what we actuallylike why why was I so inspired? So try to take some time at the end, like fivetime minutes maybe just captured or announced in terms of like this is whythis is interesting or this is how we can apply some of these learnings toour business and then if it's really relevant for your team and if you wantto discuss it more broadly, um pull...

...that team together and say, hey, let'sjust like this is what I read, you know, uh, let's read it together or I want toshare my insights. So I'm kind of how we can leverage some of these bestpractices in our space. But I think it's really being intentional aboutyour learning experience is very, very important because you know, I thinkthat's, that's actually a leadership quality, you know, regardless of whereyou are in the organization, if you're a VPN organization or Stephen as CMO,honestly, it doesn't mean that you have all the answers, you know, I can, goodleaders are the ones that are able to ask good questions and they remaincurious. Um, so you know, don't, don't think like, you know, your directors,your, your VPs or CMoS have all the answers. I think this guidance staystrue for everyone. I still try to do it you know, myself because the landscapeis changing so fast, right? Like especially on digital right now, a lotof the senior leaders and marketing are leveraging what's called reversementoring, which is like they are actually being paired up with likeyounger, you know, people in the organization to be product managers orlike even like interns who are digital natives to learn something, right?Because they're definitely out the experts. I mean I don't want togeneralize that most of them are not experts. They didn't grow up with a lotof these channels and technologies. So they are digital adapters versusdigital natives. So um I think it's, it's also, it should be the culture ofthe team in the company as well to say, hey we all need to constantly learn andgrow and you know, build our capabilities and skill sets and beingintentional about your kind of learning agenda protecting that time on yourcalendar. Um and then making sure you're giving yourself some time at theend to to capture your thoughts and learnings and force yourself to thinkhow can I apply this to my own business and ask yourself, like you were saying,how does this help move cases? How does this move the company forward forsomebody who wants to recalibrate their strategy so that it's now customer ledby customer insights, How do you recommend they start? Each company hasa process. Usually it might be very...

...loosely defined if it's not defined atall, if you cannot like put on a paper your innovation process in terms oflike, here's how we actually go from an idea concept to execution. It is aproblem, I would start with that if you want a process like document yourprocess, but I assume you have a process, ask those questions are likevery in that journey, are they actually getting during that process? Are wegetting customer insights most of the times. Unfortunately it is after thefact after we build the product, we think about how we, how do we positionit in the market? How do I communicate and like it after the fact, so you know,really scrutinize like especially in the upstream part of that process, dowe have the right steps in the process to actually immerse ourselves and thecustomers. You know, once you need some drivers and barriers and how are wetaking in those insights into our innovation process? Right. Becauseagain, if it's only like one person from marketing doing this and thatperson is trying to communicate with the rest of the team, it's better thannot doing anything. But it's, it might not be as helpful for the technicalexperts like research and development folks or product folks to trulyappreciate, you know, where you're trying to take the um, technology. So,um making sure you do it in the right way and you might be more of the rightpeople in the journey. I think it's also important, you know, as you dothat and giving your it does, you don't have to over complicated, but I wouldpick the battles and make a commitment as a team and say, okay, maybe wecannot, maybe for some of the projects we have um, that are going on right now,it's too late. The train has left the station, but for this upcoming one,maybe start with a smaller scale project if you think it's gonna beharder to comments organization to like do something differently, but pick it,pick your battles in terms of very my pilot this approach and just like workwith some internal champions. Um, that are also believers hopefully or can beturned into believers on kind of...

...convincing the larger group on, youknow, doing it right, documenting it and going through this journey togetherand piloted so people can actually experience the difference versus kindof the old way of doing it if it doesn't work and because changemanagement is probably like 80 90% of my job right now, especially with thetransformation the industry is going through, you know, from a digitaldistraction perspective, you might do all of this and still not see progressin terms of like, you know the change you're trying to drive in theorganization, you can always consider like bringing external expertise andhave consultants, you know, speak to the group about like best practices,right? Because a lot of these best practices exist. Um it's not only likeme having done this before, you know, a lot of the again, P B two C companiesare using it, even in B two B, there is very well documented processes that canbe leveraged. So if you feel like, you know, you might be lacking thecredibility or kind of influence an organization to drive that change, youcan consider potentially engaging with external firm, a consultant to actuallycome in and share some of those best practices with some case studies on,you know, here's how they've done it differently and here's how that workedfor that specific company, sometimes we like to hear what we already know fromother people too. Act again, you might believe in that, but for you to act andyou know, create that burning platform, it might help for you to hear it from athird party that is more objective because um if there was one thing thatyou wanted listeners to get from this episode, what would be the necessarytake away, what have you done for your customers today? Literally like I wantpeople to think, you know, after this, like think of your day, your week, yourmonth, whatever is the right time frame for you because you might be justconsumed with one project for the last five months and that's fine. Thinkabout that project. You know, if if your role is very dynamic and every dayyou do like slightly different things...

...like really think of like what have Idone today that is going to meaningfully impact the experience ofthe cost customers and that's ultimately gonna drive that behaviorchange, right? Because obviously you talked about the business impact likedriving cases, driving revenue, that is really the end results. There's a lotof leading indicators and a lot of, you know, drivers that gets you to that endresult and a lot of those are, you know, more behavioral goals in terms of like,you know, persuading people creating awareness, driving engagement. So, youknow, you really need to have clarity in terms of, okay, well we've done theprogram you've launched in the last month is gonna help build reputationwith a new group that you've never engaged with and the reason I knowyou're on the right track is like abc you should be able to articulate thosethings if you can't, don't feel bad, I don't think you're alone. Honestly, youmight be in this, you know, kind of silo like trying to check the box andjust get like keep the project rolling. Maybe you've never questioned like itor not. The processes are, you know, built correctly or if you need to thinkdifferently, but you know, pausing and asking yourself, those questions canget your next big project on the right track. Oh my goodness. That is sosuccinct so eloquent. I'm super excited for people to hear this. You'veprovided. Just such a rich information. I'm excited to go back and think abouthow you know, what have I done for my customers today? What have I done forpotential customers? For people who want to learn more either about you oryour company? How can listeners connect with you? They can connect me, connectwith me on lengthen. So I'm on linkedin. I'm very, I try to remain active sothey can search for my name. I will be happy to connect and counting theconversation. People on lengthen. Oh, that's awesome. Well, thank you so muchfor joining me on GDP growth. Absolutely Olivia. This was a pleasure.I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for having me. Me too. Yeah. Mm For the longest time I was askingpeople to leave a review of GDP growth...

...in apple podcasts but I realized thatwas kind of stupid because leaving a review is way harder than just leavinga simple rating. So I'm changing my tune a bit. Instead of asking you toleave a review, I'm just gonna ask you to go to be be growth in apple podcasts,scroll down until you see the ratings and reviews section and just tap thenumber of stars you want to give us no review necessary. Super easy. And Ipromise it will help us out a ton. If you want a copy of my book, contentbased networking, just shoot me a text after you leave the rating and I'llsend on your way, Text me at 40749033 - eight.

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