B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2059 · 4 months ago

What B2B Marketers Can Learn From B2C Podcasters

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Jeremy Anderberg, Podcast Producer and Managing Editor for the Art of Manliness.

Vidyard makes it easy to record, host, embed and share videos to engage more deeply with your buyers. Sign up for free today at vidyard.com/b2bgrowth. No promo code needed!

Yeah, welcome back to be, to be growth. I'mdan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and today I'm joined by jeremy Underberg,who is the managing editor and podcast producer for the Art of manliness,Jeremy, How are you doing today? I'm doing well. Thanks dan yourself. I'mdoing great and I'm super. I'm just stoked to have this interview becauseoftentimes we're interviewing, you know, in house B two B marketers and that'sfantastic and there's a lot we can learn from each other in our own space.But every once in a while I like to go outside of What the sweet spot is forus. Right? Sometimes it's nice to take a peek at what other people are doingin different industries and different sectors. In this case we're looking ata B2C podcast um from a really well known podcast and I'm going to beinterviewing jeremy to see if I can extract any lessons of what we, as Btwo B podcasters out there or B two B Marketers can learn from the B two C.Podcast space. So the art of manliness is a really well known brand. If youhaven't heard of it, then, I mean, I'd be surprised if you haven't heard of it.I'm sure it's probably a few, a small percentage that haven't heard of this,this very popular blog as well as podcast. And I believe he wrote a booka number of years ago. Right? That that did fairly well. This has been a verypopular online I guess you can call it like a like a it's beyond a blog. It'slike an online publication. Yeah, sort of a lifestyle platform I suppose. Yeah,absolutely. So I wanted to ask you and start with that. And jeremy like giveme some background just for the listeners who haven't heard of this,this brand before. What is it about a little bit of how it started? And whenyou joined the team to work on the art of manliness? Sure, yeah. Happy toshare that story. So the website Art of manliness dot com was started back in2000 and eight by my editor in chief and the founder, Brett McKay. So thegenesis was that he was at a Borders bookstore browsing the men's magazinesand just generally annoyed by the state of the content in those magazines.Right? So it was, you know, six pack abs How to score a girl for the weekend,you know, hot new cars that cost six figures, et cetera. And he was thinkingabout what, what's the kind of magazine that my grandpa would read? That wouldbe something that I would sort of like, Right. He was, he was sort of feelingnostalgic for like old school men's magazine content. And so started up artof manliness dot com. The very first article was How to shave like yourgrandfather, which was shaving with a safety razor. I don't know if you'veever done that, but it's kind of a fun old school experience and it kind oftook off. So it in the early, you know, sort of the Wild West days of theinternet back in 2000 and 8, 2000 and nine hit, you know, the front page ofdigg or, or stumble upon something like that and took off. And so he made acareer of that And then added in the podcast, I think 2009 was actually thevery first episode. So really early on in the world of podcasting tookadvantage of that. The first little rise in podcast listening for both 30,maybe 50 episodes, something like that, I'm not sure on the exact number, butthen podcasting sort of took a dip right where you were involved in thatearly stage, right? So a little bit, that's why didn't you? I think thatpredates me and so I've been at it, I've been on the team for eight plusyears. So yeah, so those, those early episodes would have predated me alittle bit. So, uh, yeah, now that I think remembering it correctly here,those were before me At least at least for the most part. So I came on a parttime in mid-2011 or so, so I think we...

...had already taken the break by then andthen just right at the beginning of the, this podcast boom that we're in now,this would have been What, or so. I think When we started back up again,kind of just started right from where we left off, and now we're up toconsistently two episodes a week. We just cracked episode 700. So as, asmanaging editor for the blog, I do a lot of writing and editing um and kindof work with advertisers a little bit. And for the podcast, I do kind ofeverything behind the scenes. So I'm booking and scheduling our guests. I'mdoing um sound checks and interview prep. I'm working with our advertisers.I'm getting the episode from our freelance editors, stuff like that. Sobasically, the only thing I'm not doing for the podcast is is hosting the showand asking the questions, otherwise I'm kind of doing the rest. Yeah, you'rekind of the man behind the curtain, getting things done. Remember rememberwhen I first found the art of manliness, man, it was probably back in, butsomewhere between 2000 and 2010, I remember seeing it for the first timeand loving loving the brand because I'd also like, I've grown up, my dad had asubscription to like, men's health or something like that. It's just kind of,it's just not it's not a really appealing magazine. It is at firstbecause you're like, yeah, six pack, but it's like, their content is kind oflike around six packs and how to get girls. And I'm like, there's more tobeing a man than this, right? And so that content was really just fantastic.You're going back to like, how do you be a gentleman as well as you know howto shoot a gun and well, the knife or something like that, it's kind of likethat style of manliness. It's very even the graphics on the block were verylike, like Sherlock Holmes, you know those old school nash and drawingboxing gloves? But like think of like boxer with a moustache, like that kindof thing. Yes, the pretty sure the logo, right, is the moustache man with thegloves on? Yes. So that that logo is actually based on john Sullivan who wasan old, bare knuckle boxer back in the early 19 hundreds, and that's prettymuch his exact profile. Is that, you know, knuckles up moustache? Yeah, bare,bare chested. Yeah, yep. So I remember seeing that as a young man and beinginspired to go at least deep into that, that a character of manliness was fun.Yeah. Been interesting to hear that you guys took a break? Why was why did youtake a break from podcasting? Sure. So from what I know, you know, it startedwhere it was sort of just a side project, there was no revenue coming infor. We had no advertisers. It was just sort of another thing we were trying.Right. So I got to a point where, you know, podcast obviously as you know,are a lot of work. Once you really get into the weeds of it, there's, there'sediting, there's prep, there's all kinds of stuff scheduling guests ifyou're an interview style show like we are and we're and so early on there'swasn't enough our ally to to justify the effort and there was just way morevalue and return in the text content at that point in time. And so we took thebreak and then we jumped back in as soon as we realized that there actuallycould be real return and value and doing the podcast. And we've hadadvertisers since, ever since we started back up again. Now we work withmineral as our ad partners and they kind of handle all of that and it'sbeen a good relationship nice. So it kind of made sense. I remember seeingand I was an early adopter of podcast back when you had like the little,everyone had ipods and you had the little swivel dial. I was listening topodcast back then and there weren't many. There was, I don't know, I thinkmy favorite business one was called manager tools was a fantastic one earlystill going. Um, and then pod runner, which had like running music on, it waskind of like the first few I had and the art of manliness was definitelythere in the beginning, but then I guess podcasting tied down. I know Iwas still listening through that time...

...period because it's just superconvenient. It's very convenient medium. Um but obviously like when the iphonestarted becoming super popular and the Apple finally added a podcast app tothe iphone like started really jumping back up. So it made it made itaccessible, it made it easy again to do it before it was kind of a pain you hadto go through itunes find the show downloaded and then sinking up to yourdevice which was difficult for most people. But even 2013 would have beenearly. Most people talk about like the resurgence of podcasting being like2015 through To present day, right? This is when BTB growth actuallystarted in 2015 and is considered early in the second wave of podcasting. Um so2013 has been going a long time. Yeah and you know part of it is so Brett myeditor in chief and boss, he loves interviewing people and he lovesreading. So you know, the the format of our show is generally we interview andauthor about a book they've written. It provides an easy format for us, right?And bread just really enjoys it. And so he started up again, yeah, really earlyon in the art of manliness has always had a really loyal audience and loyalfollowing. So we were hitting, you know, six digit per month download figurespretty early on. Um, and then have just kind of steadily, steadily grown fromthere. So something that I'd be curious about is um how do you guys plan yourcontent? How do you discover what people actually want to read that stillstays within still stays true to the brand, but still is finding new thingsthat people want to learn and grow, grow in their knowledge about? Yeah,that's a great question. And that's truly the hardest part of, you know,two episodes a week every single week. You know, it's about 100 shows a year.And we got to find fresh content for all of it. So one of the one of the bigthings that already manliness prides herself on is just the variety ofcontent. So we make sure we are covering all of our basically all ofour blog categories in podcast form, so there's philosophy, there's history,fitness style, even self improvement. So we want to run the gamut, we don'twant to be to pigeon holed, which I know it's sort of runs counter to someof the advice that you'll see today is right, get super niche into youraudience to kind of stick with it. But our our brand has always been reallybroad, so we want to cover everything. So in any given month we're planningout where can we get the most variety? Really. So, you know, we are, we don'twant to do like to fitness shows in back to back weeks, we don't want tohave stuff that's uh too close together in topic for our listeners, because weknow that not all of our listeners are listening to every episode, right? Sowe want to be able to To give all of our listeners something to listen to inany given, you know, 2-4 week period of time. So, really, what happens is, youknow, we're at a point now where publishers send me oodles of books andtons of content. I'm getting pr pitches from everywhere, Right? And so one ofmy jobs is to mind through all of that and figure out one what fits with ourbrand. And two does it sort of fit into the publishing calendar at this pointin time? So that, you know, the hard part is figuring out what lines up withthe brand. That's something that, you know, has taken us a number of years tofigure out. And is one of the hard things for any brand out there. But we,we have it nailed down to where we're doing things that are one evergreen. Sothey'll stay relevant forever. Basically. We get a ton of archive.Listens for our episodes, we don't get too much into current events orpolitics. We stay away from that as...

...much as we can. And uh to you know,that we like to do things that are at least somewhat practical for like theaverage guy. So even even in a history interview, you know, we'll end it with,you know, what, what can like the modern average joe learn from thisevent or this person from history? So that's kind of the go to, you know, welike to know that our our overall sort of goal is to help men grow up and livewell. So if if we can align something with that with that question, right,How does this episode to help a man grow up? Well, even if it is, you know,if he if he's in his thirties, forties, fifties, if we can answer that question,then uh then we're on Brandon and good to go, hi dan Sanchez here with a quickbreak from this episode, sponsor Vidyard. If you haven't started usingpersonal video yet to enhance your marketing campaigns, you're missing outhaving the ability to quickly capture video and record my computer screen orboth helps me not only create marketing assets faster, it makes them way morepersonable. I use personal videos in social media, email, blast landingpages and even on our website, Vidyard makes it easy to record host in bed andshare videos to more deeply engaged with your ideal buyers prospects havetold me repeatedly that they are blown away every time they get one for me. Sosign up for Vidyard free today by going to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth andjust like you guys, the team at Vidyard can't keep up with all these promocodes on podcast, so they are making signing up as easy as possible, so nopromo code needed. Just go to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth. So startusing vidyard completely free and as a bonus, get their 2021 B two B videotrans guide. So essentially what I hear you saying is that you kind of workbackwards from that mission and you worked backwards from that mission intoa number of different categories. And then you make sure you hit all thosedifferent categories and make sure they all stay aligned to the mission ofhelping men grow up well, right in a day and age where men tend to delaygrowing up, right? And uh extend adolescence, right? You're fightingagainst that movement. Yeah, it's a great way to put it. Yeah. So it's kindof interesting work backwards from your mission. Uh come up with a couple ofgreat categories and then make sure you're hitting those categoriesregularly. Now, I'm looking at your podcast right now, opened up on my Macapp and there's no way to currently does. Like, it sucks that you can'tcreate categories within a podcast, right? Um I know I've experimented withhaving like hashtags and the categories, but then you're like at least an iphonethat gets deprecating after a short while and then you're like, oh, butthen people don't get to see the headline that they should. So I've goneback and forth on how to do that. How do you kind of keep it organized inyour feed or do you just kind of like, no, no, you're keeping it balanced andnot have to worry about designating categories within a podcast. Sure. Sowhat we're actually doing is just like looking at a, you know, a googlecalendar on a month by month basis and scheduling it out here. The episodes wepublished monday Wednesday each week And we planted out roughly 3-5 weeks inadvance. And so we know that, you know, once it's, it's on that publishingcalendar, it's pretty set in stone and once that happens, we know that it isfitting in with the rest of the calendar and the rest of the episodesgotcha. You're just making sure the content and the most even spread. Butyou don't necessarily like designate in the podcaster and the title ordescription that it's this one's in this category. This one's in thatcategory, correct? Yeah. Because part of the hope to is, you know, like if wewere to sort of categorize things like that in the feed, the worry would bethat some folks might not listen to it if they think they're not interested inthe category. Right? So we we still want to keep it open to where we think,you know, anyone can find this...

...interesting if they just kind of givethe episode of shot. It's interesting. It's kind of what we came to aconclusion to to we were a daily show. So we're putting out content once, atleast sometimes multiple times a day. Um and we did find when we had to tryto designate categories, some people just stopped engaging with somecategories. And there was, it was made it harder to revive a category becausepeople just became not used to not listening to that. Yeah, interesting,interesting. You guys kind of ran to the same thing or have come to the sameconclusion now. Do you take your podcast and turn them into blog posts?Yeah, we do actually. And it sort of actually goes both ways. So, you know,we'll take content just like a, you know, a 10 minute snippet from like a16 year 40 minutes show and turn it into some text content that will then,you know, organise a little better. We won't pull it directly, but we'll sortof use it as a jumping off point. And then we'll also we'll go through ourold like blog archives and say, hey, this was like a really interestingarticle we did. Is there someone we could find out there to talk about itwith on the podcast? So it goes both ways. It's absolutely true that thetext content in the podcast content feed off of each other in a loop forsure. And it makes it easier really. So, you know, if we're trying to come upwith blog article ideas, we can just go to the podcast feed, say, hey, what didwell with our audience, what's like one little thing we could pull from thereand it makes a lot easier to come up with ideas, but you don't necessarilytake your podcast and turn and turn that exact episode into a full blogpost. You, you come up with some really robust show notes and just call it goodfor that, correct? Yeah, yep. Okay, when you publish a new episode, likewhat's kind of the rhythm you do to get it out there, do you just splinter itout into multiple different social pieces? Do you just publish it into theblog? How many places does a new episode go in order to get it out intothe world? Sure, it's a good question. Yes, we, we don't do those like littlesnippets, like previews that you see a lot of folks doing these days, part ofit honestly is just as a, we're a three person team for a big, big brand and sothere's just not quite time to do all of that. So what we'll do is uh, it'llget published on the website, which then goes out to our email newsletter,which I believe is a couple 100,000 strong. I'm not entirely positive onthe latest numbers. So it's going out an email and then it's a social blastprimarily to twitter instagram linkedin and Pinterest was the big ones for us.At least surprisingly, we get more more linkedin and Pinterest traffic than wewould expect, especially as like a men's lifestyle brand. Right? So that'skind of interesting. And then, uh, the other big thing is we're sharing itwith one, we're asking the person we've interviewed to share with their network,which is often social and a newsletter and then we're also sharing with thepublishers. So like for a new book, I'm often in communication with thepublicist for that book. Right? So I'll share it with like penguin, RandomHouse for instance, say, hey, this is our episode with your author. Would youshare it with your channels as well? And it just sort of grows, grows fromthere so makes sense when you say you push it out on social as a social blast,does that mean you're kind of like taking the link and dropping it in orlike you automated like what it's like when you drop an episode on twitter,what does that look like? Yeah. So I'm using buffer for most of our socialsharing so I just drop a link and a headline. I'll often in front of it putnew podcast with the headline and then tagging the person we've interviewedand that's about it. Yeah I do it all manually that way. I prefer that beingable to make just little tweaks to the content instead of having it pushedautomatically. So yeah we do it all...

...manual and then buffer will of coursewith their algorithms sort of re share it throughout basically the course ofthe next week. So sure. So it gets posted multiple times to something liketwitter rather than just the one time. It does, yeah, yeah. We we takeadvantage of those buffer algorithms to repost it automatically. Okay. And areyou customizing it per channel? Do you like write it differently for linkedinthan you would for twitter? No, we're using this the same text for yourtwitter Pinterest instagram is a little different. Um will often either sharethe podcast in a story or just like a monthly roundup if it's in the mainfeed. But we've noticed that that the stories uh do tend to do really wellfor click through for us for episodes. Yeah, I mean stories is where mostlyattention is on instagram. Remember when that happened like two or threeyears ago I was running a lot of ads on the facebook platform and things weresteady until I looked at like, like it used to all be in the instagram feed iswhere all my leads came from. And then over the course of a summer, likeflipped, it was like 80 20 and then it flipped the other way 80 20. Like usedto be, it went from uh where people can scroll to the stories is where people'sattention shifted, happened really fast. Yeah, it's a huge difference and we,you know, we get a little bit of click through from twitter and Pinterest, butmost of the click through like the actual R. O. I. Is definitely from,from instagram and we're sort of intentionally not on like Snapchat orTic tac or some of those other ones. We just have sort of seen them as to flashin the pan. I know other brands have had success, but we, we kind of like tostick with the two tried and true. So where do you go for inspiration whenyou want to figure out how to do your job better? Who are you looking up to?That's man, that's a great question. You know, there are other other, like Iwould sort of, I guess call them like legacy mens brands, right, that havebeen around for a decade plus, so Dab Bird dot com is one of them joe Webberruns out. It's a style blog that sort of does some other things. He doesn'thave a podcast, but puts out a ton of content. Real men, real style isanother one you might have heard about, you know, again, maybe a decade ago.Yeah, Primer Magazine is a good one. It's this really interesting space,especially if like for men's lifestyle, right, where we're sort of in themiddle, we're not like we're not political, like you've seen a lot ofthose like actual magazine brands go, it's like esquire has gotten very, verypolitical lately and we try to stay away and we're also not like the otherend, like like the bro, men's internet, you know, like this weird middle groundand it's sort of a strange place to be, but those, those are sort of some ofthe the other websites I'll go to, even just for motivation to keep going,right, and then there's some classic, you know, I read a lot of books cantell, you know, bookshelves behind me, a lot of Stephen press field books arealways inspiring. So I don't know if you've heard of the War of Art orTurning Pro are amazing little books that I'll even just keep on my desk andflip through on a daily basis, that are our super inspiring. So I'm alwayslooking at other kinds like text content. I'm a words guy, you know. UmSo that's that's generally where I'm going. Fantastic. Is there anythingelse you think the audience would that would benefit the audience to know,coming from your seat managing this large B two C podcast? That would behelpful for B two B marketers and podcasters out there? Sure. So I Ithink the biggest thing for us is, you know, I was saying before we recorded,we have not done a ton of traditional marketing. The biggest thing we've doneis constancy. Our audience knows we're doing two episodes a week every singleweek, really, no matter what happens in...

...our life, right? We've all, me and myboss, there's been babies and emergencies and pandemics and electionsand there are always going to be two episodes a week regardless. And I thinkthat's been a huge driver of our growth, is that people can rely on us. And thenthe other thing is is we uh we know that we have a really loyal audienceand we will um you know, not not take advantage of them, but we know thatthey're going to have our back and that they're going to support what we'redoing. And so we are more focused on the audience we we have and helpingthem out and getting them to spread the word because they love us so muchversus reaching for the new audience members um necessarily. So that's kindof the r two big things, right? We we know our audience and we we cater tothem for sure, and then we uh we stick around man for hell or high water. Soyeah, So it's interesting the things that I'm kind of taken away from thisas a B2B market er um as since the art of manliness is very much a lifestyle,things that came out of Brett's desire to see something, something that wasmissing, right? A way of life for a way of thinking maybe more. So uh that wasmissing from culture at that point and then starting develop content around it.And it's developed this like old manly men, but not Arnold Schwarzenegger,manly man, like back olden times, manly men, 19 thirties, boxer, kind of manlymen, right, harkening back to that day and age And then creating a lot ofcontent around it, getting people excited about it, finding like mindedindividuals. I'm like, almost wonder if B2B would benefit from trying to thinklike that, like what kind of what's what's missing, what's missing, andprobably best maybe even if your B. Two B. Founder then it's a lot easierbecause you're you get to set the tone of the culture of the organization. Buteven as a B. Two B. Market er you might want to fish around for like whatwhat's missing in the lifestyle or the culture of the people that you'remarketing to that they wish or inspire. Maybe even reading in different placesat different genres. Um And how do you bring a bit of that culture andseasoning? You know that flavor back into your brand to make it moreinteresting because there's lots of people publishing great men's content.But the art of manliness, what makes it different is the that feel around it.It has it has this nostalgia to it that makes it just a much more fun andinteresting and engaging brand. It also has that mission to draw back to.That's not like the generic excellent like businesses have really born, weall know businesses have like these born that nobody likes, but the art ofmanliness has this real clear and distinct mission they're trying to gofor. That becomes the kind of the litmus test for every single piece ofcontent, or the way you can figure out how to add an angle to every singlepiece of content, How it can end with being practical to help accomplish thisthing. What is your content helping to produce in people? How is it helpingthem to aspire and attain the goals that they've set for themselves Ormaybe that lifestyle that you found there all aspiring towards? How do youadd a little bit more of that to it in order to help it stand out from otherbusiness content, which tends to be really helpful and but not very fun.It's much more plain vanilla, even if it is um well written and clearlyarticulated. Maybe even has some spunk in the writing. But how do you createthat consistency across your brand and pull from it? Well, Jeremy, that's atleast that's what I'm kind of getting out of this as a B2B market or tryingto feel like Trying to look for look at B2C for inspiration. Thank you so muchfor joining me on the show today, and I want to give you a chance to tellanybody about where they can learn more from you if they have questions havefollow ups, where can they go online, discover or to to talk to you anddiscover what you're up to. Sure. So are the manliness dot com is where togo for for all things art of manliness...

...in terms of social, you know, I'mprobably more attentive than than the art of manliness channels as a wholeand I'm at jeremy and er berg J E R E N Y A N D E R B E R G on twitter andinstagram. And I also have my own newsletter about books and reading thatcan be found at read more books dot Ceo and any of those spots, you can go andfind what we're up to and ask questions. We're happy to engage. Fantastic again.Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Yeah. Thanks dan. It reallywas my pleasure. Mm Are you on linkedin? That's a stupidquestion. Of course, you're on linkedin here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in onthe platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there.Sometimes it's a funny gift for me. Other times it's a micro video or aslide deck and sometimes it's just A regular old status update that sharestheir unique point of view on B- two B marketing leadership or their jobfunction. We're posting this content through their personal profile, not ourcompany page and it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with each ofour evangelists, we'll be adding more down the road. But for now you shouldconnect with Bill Read, our ceo Kelcy Montgomery, our creative director DanSanchez, our director of audience growth Logan, Lyles, our director ofpartnerships and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot of fun onlinked in pretty much every single day and we'd love for you to be a part ofit.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1608)