B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2109 · 2 months ago

The Way Forward in Digital Experience

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk to Mike Ni, Chief Growth Officer at Coveo.

Yeah, hi everyone, welcome back to be, to begrowth. My name is Olivia Hurley and today I'm joined by Mike knee, who'sthe chief growth officer at Kobe. Oh hi mike, how you doing? Hey Olivia doinggreat, awesome. Well mike you have a lot of experience and a lot of thoughtsaround the digital experience in B two B as of today. And I'm wondering if youconclude the rest of us in and just take it super basic before we dive intoa really in depth conversation about the additional experience, could youjust talk us through What it is right now currently in the B two B space?Sure. I mean and I think a lot of times, you know, experiences such a big word,but it just really breaks down to you know, what is it that the that yourcustomers are really taking away and you can think about all those touchpoints now and you know, if we just get back to, you know what, I think we canall agree that, you know, B two B digital experiences are getting better,but but but as we moved to, you know, from specific challenges, call centersand and maybe even retail or or or you know, having direct conversationswithin an account exact we have an exploding number of touch points. Andwhat you're seeing now is that it's showing all the silos of theorganization more and more to our customers who really want to see us asone company, right? And as such, you know, you're delivering a franklyunderwhelming and inconsistent experience. You know, very often westill see websites that just showcase corporate information, you know, reallya dump of the online catalogue and just moved it online. And whether it's for,you know, your direct customers or whether you have a dealer portal, right?It really still is lacking or even just self service. And how do people findinformation or get serviced by? You just have to think about how most B twoB buyers, you know, how to figure out what the replacement part number wasthat's replaced last year's number. Just these type of things all lead tothat dissatisfaction and frankly have become just what has become, you know,uh, recognition that BTB experiences are still have a way to go, shall wesay? Just be kind. So I'm curious generally why is this no longer goodenough or working? And what results are we missing out on? You know, why is itnot good enough? Let's start there. I mean, I think we we are all part of theproblem. The problem is we or whatever. The problem with us, something likethat expectation bar is absolutely higher. You know, I think we've allheard this idea. But let me just give you an example of why It's true the baris no longer set by direct competitors. I sell dental equipment right to allthese, you know, tens of thousands of dental offices and my direct competitorisn't another distributor. I didn't know my competitor now is Apple. It'sUber, it's amazon, right? They're the ones who are saying the bar that notjust as in my industry, but across industries, you know, amazon is clearlyestablishing itself as setting the...

...buyer expectations of, you know, withamazon business, uh, solution. And the question I often hear back is, you know,whether a company is going to be the amazon of the category or amazon willbe and and that just gets back to the bar for the buyers are higher, not likethat. I hear a lot around. Proxima services are getting commoditized. Yourcompetitors just a click away and hence you have falling margins,commoditization and really processing services are just a reason now ordistinct by what type of relevance, how you became relevant to your customers.Let me give you an example and I think this will make it more real. I was onthe phone with a account exact for one of the world's largest electronicdistributors and we're talking about, you know, what does it mean toincreasing engage with relevant experiences? And I thought he wouldhate the fact that we're taking over his job because whether you're in thewebsite, whether you're in the services or sportscenter, whether you're in thecommunity pages were increasingly using automation and and and to deliver amuch more rich experience. And he's like, no, it was great. Not the case atall. His issue is transparent, pricing has dropped down the prices uh andtherefore he has to sell more. What he needs is his customers to come in andactually experience the type of experience he would have given them.But self service, which is what people will increasingly want anyway, find theproducts that they're looking for because B two B buyers replenishing andso you know what they want, how do you introduce them to the right packagingsizes too, given the right discounts, how do you get them to other categories?You may not know about you, a software that supports that category that theymay not have learned about the documentation that they need to readabout. And then by the time they get to him, he's just closing deals and givinga little bit more recommendation on top. But that even flips around, we talkabout experience, it's not just your buyers, their experience is those whoare providing that experience. So he was saying how much has helped, notjust him, but all these new new kids who are moving into roles like his, youhave hundreds of thousands of products in the catalog. They'll never know itall in the same way that you're guiding buyers, you have to have being relevantinformation, the right information at the right time to the to the sellers sothey can provide that excellent experience to to the customers as well.So like I said across the life cycle, we're seeing that the expectations ofthe buyers are not enough are raising up products and and services again, oranother reason why the experience right now, is that good enough? That's beingcommoditized. Selection is not it everyone can source, so it is beingrelevant across all those touchpoints and delivering a relevant experiencethat is now becoming the differentiation and that's why it's notenough. So let me see if I if I've got this by pulling a thread that I thinkmight be part of this. Sure, it sounds like to your point about, you know,you're selling dental equipment, your competitor is not the otherdistributors selling dental equipment. As much as it now, is Apple or some ofthese, some of these companies that are setting the bar really, really high isthat because the buyer is consuming marketing the same way, whether it's Btwo B or not. Absolutely. And actually...

...you see the fact that more and morebuyers are now millennials And their consumer experiences absolutelytranslate into what they expect from their B2B experience as well to be ableto shop any time. That's why self service has become such a large impact.In fact, we just did a recent survey and we'll talk a little about an impactlater and expectations. But millennials said if you don't have a self serviceoption, they dropped the brand right? They expected. The fact is that it'snot just be able to buy but to be able to discover what they should be buyingand that's all part of the experience. And so when you think about amazon andwhat they do, it is really providing, not just answering. I have a question,I'm trying to find something, Let me find it. And amazon is now 50% of allstarting points because people search start their search there, but the alsoprovide additional information. You know, what are things people like youbuying them? Maybe you should have thought of, here's some additionalvideos that actually help you explore what you should be thinking about inthis category. Maybe it'll help you buy better next time again, it's thatrelevance and finding, bring the right information up. That's making thedifference, not just selling the product. And that's the bar now thatB2B is stepping up to as well and hence you see the rise of all theseinitiatives around customer experience. Yeah, so to kind of go down a littletangent here, but I want to Flushes out a little bit more. Could you write aprescription for me for B2B companies starting to have a self service option?What does that mean? What does that look like? What is step one for gettingthere? Well, absolutely. So, you know, first it always starts with uh the coreinfrastructure and this is where you have to separate a little bit. Um justdo I have an infrastructure, a commerce solution? Do I have a um, do I have theright website? And so there are pieces of just the look and the feel that'spart of the experience, but increasingly that's becoming tablestakes and so you start there, the question is how do I actually starthelping people find what they're looking for? And so from an experienceperspective, search has become so important and it's not just search,think about netflix. When you think about search, you don't think I go tonetflix to look for movies. Yeah, maybe I do, but reality, it knows what I'mlooking for and lays out a page of the types of movies and by categories thatI'd be interested in and it learns it takes every every interaction to learnand power the next. And that's what you're really looking for. How do Istart first with Just Simple helped me find what I'm looking for and that'sabsolutely step one and you know, it's not just the state of constant, thebest content for whatever set and that's and that's step one. I think thequestion then is how do you start bringing pages of information? How doyou start bringing recommendations? And so let's say I'm looking for a I'm I'mI'm buying pipe fittings and I'm looking for a certain part but thatpart actually every year the part...

...numbers change, I'm actually lookingfor this part, this part is discontinued but here are thereplacement parts typically that takes a lot of manpower, but you're reallylooking for a better search to help them find what they're looking for andhave tools that automatically start connecting the dots. People like you,are you looking for this actually are looking for this and they find theirsolution here. That's the first step. Which is justfix their basic search and you know, this is where they get to first. Thesecond thing is really started recommending what people need and thisgets into Yes, I may be looking for pipe fittings, but did you know thatthere are other categories around? How do we put brackets? How do I actuallyput together, you know, using pipes in a whole set. That actually helps memaintain the most efficient like layout of piping or even software that lets medo piping design. You know that level of education starts taking the nextstep. How do I start doing recommendations? How do I help discoverwhat I as a buyer should know? That's we start getting more relevant. That'swhen you start thinking about the experience uh and a relevant experienceactually becoming part of the value that differentiates me as a B two Bseller versus others. And from there, you could just get increasingly rich interms of really understanding the individuals who are buying andunderstanding getting to the next level of personalization, which then actuallysuperpowers both your search as well as your recommendation. But let me pausethere for a minute, but that's a basic road map. We see a lot of lot ofcustomers start Commerce is one place, support, services and helping you selfservice another. Um but cross cross goes across the entire life cycle ofthe customer. Absolutely. Well, you circled back to my next pointincredibly well, so this is hardly a jump at all. But you were saying, kindof get us back on this this digital experience thread, you were youmentioned relevance and I think that probably is a big part of what thedigital experience needs to be today. Can you talk about what you think thatthe digital experience, the status quo of today's digital experience should be?Absolutely, you know, it's funny because this is where it's hard todescribe, but we all recognize that when we experience it and wereincreasingly doing it every day. So if I had to sum it up, you know, we talkedabout the look and feel, and yes, that is one part, let's talk about, you know,let's put that aside for a second. You have to have the website, you have tohave call center tools, but the problem isn't one of a pretty sight. It's noteven around like the training, we call center agents, it's around, you know,you know, what we really have is a relevant question, You know, the rightunderstanding people and uh and the intent that they have, it's not aboutbeing product centric has been, context has to know what I'm searching for now.It's not about demographics, so much of, you know, these experiences are drivenon because I come from a certain segment, these are things I should like.But in reality I may be a dad, I mean I...

...maybe, you know, love, you know, uh,button up shirts, but I'm actually a dad today looking for a present for mydaughter. So is it in context? And of course, is it constantly learning? Um,and so again, when we think about the right and what is the digitalexperience first and foremost, help me find what I'm looking for. And thisgets back to just the, you know what we were talking about before search andfind the right documents, the right products, the right person or resourcesto help me complete the job at hand. That could be, I'm on, I'm on acommerce site and that's what we've been talking about. But in reality wehave customers like Salesforce, Where there is a 90% success rate of finestsolution to my problem, that's a whole lot of calls, not him, you call centerand it's also matching the way I want to do it. I want to find upon myself,right, you know, the second part of delivering a great experiences helpedme discover, like we're saying, learn, learn, help me learn things to do withthe job I'm looking to do and in the context of what I'm trying to achieve.And so, you know, whether it's on a website on my device, a self servicechat bot, you know, give me the pieces that I'm looking for and help me get myjob done. And I know that's a little abstract, if you, you know, maybe I cangive you an example of what would it be. So, you know, 11 example, let's justtake sales for us. We just started down that path there, a great partner, we wewe were um we work with them not only selling, you know, around the wholeecosystem on Salesforce, but they're also a great customer. And so, you know,it starts off with how do I actually find new things? And so when you go tothe app exchange, when I started exploring new products or even knowingwhat I have today, it's giving recommendations like netflix. You know,people like you typically are looking for these types of add ons to yoursolution. You know, these are certain training areas that potentially you maywant to look into. And so how do I actually find things? And what we sawwas working with that exchange? Not only Um did they increase theengagement? I think it's like 25% to 17% install click through as well. Andyou know, you talk about people finding things easier and actually engagingwith that content. But then we talked a lot about now that I have products, howdo I support? How do I how do I actually look at finding solutions tomaybe questions I have and that's where you're going to the community pages.You start searching for content as I go there and knows what I've, what I have.I don't have to search for anything but lays out, here's some interestingdocuments that may be applying to things that you could do next. What arethings that can learn for me to actually do more with the solutions Ihave or even now that I haven't found, if I haven't found the solution, Istill have to go to the call center. The problems in the call center now aremuch harder because I've done so much self service. How do I actually helpedthe, you know, the agents? And this is where, you know, example is as callcenter agent. Right in the right hand panel, I actually not only have ahistory of all the behavior, but I'm actually getting recommendations on thecontent based upon what they've already looked at of what other types ofcontent may solve the problem they're...

...facing. So as I'm typing the case as areading out to me, it's actually dissecting the words and saying theseare the categories of types of problems they may be having you can ask aboutbut associated that here recommended sets of content you can use to resolvetheir problem. Again, it's around now, not just call deflection, but aroundproficiency and how do I make agents come across as the expert? And again,that that sense of expertise is a huge driver mps, huge driver of customersatisfaction. And that all the way goes all the way back to even the workplace,as were saying before, for employees looking at, you know, whether it'ssales for us, it's sales people looking for the right document to help closethe deal or whether it's, you know, we support trailhead. How do you find thenext set of content that helps you learn about your product? Again,employees and how do you find the right content? Uh, is a key point. In fact,we see the employees, We just did a survey where workers surveyed spend anaverage of two plus hours a day searching for the information. Uh, inpart because 41% of them feel that the information provided to them is notrelevant to the job role they have and that's a lot of time wasted foremployees. And so all around the cycle of, of experience, internal andexternal stakeholders, you know, find that relevant information anddelivering the right visual experience applies across the board. Hey,everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the showfor a while, you know, we're big proponents of putting out originalorganic content on linked in. But one thing that's always been a struggle fora team like ours is to easily track the reach of that linked in content. That'swhy I was really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from aconnection on, you guessed it linked in since our team started using Shield.I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance ofArlington content without having to manually log it ourselves. Itautomatically creates reports and generate some dashboards that areincredibly useful to see things like what contents been performing the bestand what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and ouraverage views per post. I highly suggest you guys check out this tool ifyou're putting out content on linked in and if you're not, you should be, it'sbeen a game changer for us. If you go to shield app dot Ai and check out the10 day free trial, you can even use our promo code B two B growth to get a 25%discount. Again, that's shield app dot Ai. And that promo code is B The numbertwo de growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. So if wedon't move as B two B. Marketers don't move in that direction. Emulating andwhat you just said, putting it into practice, what do we stand to lose?It's a great question. And certainly, um this is one where I I got a greatquote from a customer I was dealing...

...with a couple months ago. His point was,you know, if you are irrelevant, you are ignored. And at this point in timewhen everyone can find things online, there's so many choices out there. Thisis a matter of not just losing a customer to, it's a matter of companyuh survival. It's not, you know, it's it's it's that fundamental. And so andcompanies. No, it's true. And they're rethinking their customer experience.You're seeing the rise of a whole new organizational titles and initiativesand you see it in the hiring patterns of many companies across industries andwe work across all of them whether it's B two B or B two C, and just a coupleexamples from, like I said, that consumer survey we ran last quarter,you know, missing shopper expectations. I think this is one that a lot ofpeople see stats on, but it's worth pointing out, right, not only costs youa sale, it costs you a customer, even if they buy from you this time, right,90% of customers we surveyed expect online shopping experience is equal, ifnot better than the in store experience and 43% would pay more if they couldfind what they're looking for in just a few clicks. Um, and we certainly, yousee the fall off and multiple surveys around if it's not relevant, they'renot finding that recommendation right? This is why you see so much consumerbusiness flowing to like an amazon who can provide that. But at the same time,three strikes and you're out, you know, three negative service experiences. And70% of the respondents said they would abandon a brand and as we mentionedbefore, 50% of digital natives that they'll abandon a brand if they can'tself service. That's huge. We're talking about massive impacts if peopledon't start thinking about that experience and be able to deliver thatto their customers. And of course, employees and that relevant. You talkedabout the fact that they spend a tremendous amount of time, in fact, theability to build up that proficiency in the organization often gets to, youknow, are they finding the right information and starting to learn thebest ways to do the job? And that raises the whole, not only the abilityof the organization to handle harder problems, as we mentioned before, butthat level of being able to move forward. Actually, we see a directcorrelation to customer mp to employ mps and retention, so certainly impactsacross the board if you stay on the status quo. So do we need to take apage out of the B. D. C. Or e commerce digital experience? Uh, you know thequestion, the answer is actually yes and no actually won. Yes. As youmentioned, our expectations as buyers are absolutely set by what we're seeingin our consumer experience. And that is as absolutely raising the bar for all Btwo B but also, and no, the job is actually a little different. Let mejust point to a couple examples, you know, in the consumer world, a lot oftimes you're just trying to sell a little bit more. You often get, do youwant cheese with the hamburger? Right, I'm sorry or the insurance. Right, Youget some add on recommendation, but actually in b to B, it's not aroundselling a little bit more, it's around adding value. And so that could be, letme if actually, if you're buying this quantity, let me get you to the bulkplatt been to size and that gives you a...

...better discount or let me give you acategory cross sell a lot of times, buyers know what they're looking for.What you really want is to educate them on other things you can do that wouldhelp them specifically. Again, how do you stay relevant to their problems?They know that you're a great partner to educate them. And of course this issomething we talked about in the pre call. It actually matters more, thatidea of relevance and that you're helping me do my job. You know if Imade a if I as a consumer make a bad choice of toothpaste alright. My kidsmay hate me for a day or two. Right dad, this tastes terrible. I've certainlygot that, that's what's top of mind. But uh it was on sale come on. But youknow if if you buy, you know if you make a bad procurement decision and itcauses the impact of the business you could lose your job. It matters. And sothese you know we talk about providing the right experience and being relevantand they're having a relevant experience. It actually matters evenmore than in the B. C. World. So there's a lot to learn in deliveringthe right experience. But you have to understand that this is slightlydifferent as well. And so this is where you know, yes and no you just have to,you know, there is a there's a line and are thinking to be done as you thinkabout how to apply the best practices. Okay, so I want to go superfoundational building blocks here for somebody who's taking a look and takinginventory of their companies digital experience and their assessment issomething's got to change. We've got to evolve into the level up our digitalexperience, what is step one? No, absolutely. And and so you know, wehave a maturity curve that we typically help our customers with and it reallygoes around the horn of, you know, fixing search relevance number one,recommend what people need and then finally look and revisit the corejourney and assumptions and deliver on 3 60 degree relevance and let me breakit down a little bit of why that's the case right at the end of the day, youknow, it's like painting a picture right? You have to start off with ablank canvas first and when someone comes to the specific problem, youbetter answer their question. And so anything that's the way of that process,whether it's answering a service request or buying, trying to make asmart purchase decision, you have to be able to answer that question and that'swhat we were talking about before. And a lot of times it means bringinginformation follow the place, which which is, which is an issue with with alot of customers that we first bump into Best answer to deflected cases.Actually YouTube video, a lot of times people don't bring in all theinformation and so they are often limited. So number one fixer, 12 ints.It's uh, you know, it's actually finding all the content and not justlimited to what the system can provide, you know, for an open case, an agentneeds to know that there is an open bug indira, how do you make sure you bringthat information in and today making all these connections? It's hard, thisis why searches often so much better to leave the data where it is, don't tryto put it all into Big Cdp, it's probably want to overhyped Marketingtechnologies out there right now, but...

...to be able to leave where it is butactually know that there's certain type of content that actually helps youanswer a certain problem best. And with 60% of commerce purchases starting withsearch and some of our research, you know, certainly the ability to selfservice and solve that search problem is day one problem. Hence we see thatbeing the critical starting point and some folks really just focus theirbecause their customers, that's what they want. But recommendations and whatpeople need is actually leveraging a lot more Ai and and a machine learningto understand intent, right? It's not just historical data, but real time inconstant detects what people are trying to do. I'm buying for my daughter rightnow. And how do I actually help them navigate to, you know, to to controlthat, how it actually helped them with surfacing the right content anddocuments and now brought in from across multiple sources. And you know,most people are captured a ton information from search and whatthey're doing there. The next step is to leverage all that learning and startgiving recommendations. You know, doing listing pages of, you know, you comeyou log in, you don't have to ask a question now, you're starting to giveguidance on these are things that you should be doing next. Here are ways orareas that you maybe want to look deeper into, right? And that actuallyturns into finally, as you start optimizing within an area like serviceor commerce, then the third step is really starting to look at a broaderand end personalization and revisit the core journey, and I think this is wherea lot of people have been jumping right into. So sometimes I think this is tooearly, but it's always good to have a view of your customer journey. Actually,a great story here. Um a friend of mine soon, you he's author of a book callediconic brands. Um had a great analogy where you how do you focus on the rightpoint of your experience? Is it in your call center? Is it in the is it in thefirst point of your website? And he used the example of Disneyland, Sorry,we'll go back to a little bit more be deceived world. He had his son take acran on top of the map of Disneyland. You know, you get that one pager mapyou get when you first get in there and he just had his son mark down littlered dots where he didn't feel like he was having as much fun. Right? Clearlythings like waiting lines are sitting and waiting for food. And so when youstart thinking about connecting on 360° of of that level of relevance and howto give him what they want at a point in time, you know, you start looking atthose friction points and you start knocking down down first. And so as yousee about journeys and again, you know, you're starting simple with search andrecommendations. But then journeys uh now you start to try to connect thedots and this is where you can start leveraging the data, right? Not onlydoing things like fast pass to think about lines, but the fact is when hewalks closer to the restaurant that they have, the reservation at the tableis set right, His name card is there and his favorite character is rightthere next to the table. I mean those are types of experiences that you cannow start to orchestrate because you've collected the information and you canactually start knowing the types of things that are most relevant to ayoung kid that makes your heart sing, right? And I know I should be using aBB experience story but it's so cute. I just had how to use that story, butexactly the same thing that goes in to...

...be to be experienced. You start withthe journey map and where are those frustrations, right, fixing irrelevantsearches. One of the first things that need to be uh customers absolutely havebecause it gets that friction points, How do I finding what I'm looking for?I actually know what I'm looking for. I. B two B. I'm usually replenishing, I'mtrying to learn and discover how are you starting to recommend the rightthings to me. And that applies not just to the early points on your website, tocommerce, to service and support, but also to how you support your customerswith your internal workplace solutions. And so this is why we see ourselveswhere I see, you know so much of the core as a starting point of search,fixing the core problems in certain processes because they're fast to fix,starting to leverage AI and machine learning to start bring thoserecommendations into those steps and then have in mind the broaderpersonalization that you want, the leverage of data you want across thejourney to remove this friction points or find those points where you canactually bring more information to change the process. And I think thoseare the basic steps of how to engage. So I want to get a little bit more intoyour mind and your experience as you were developing and experiencing theseelements of creating a better digital experience and the jobs that you'veheld. What were those friction points for you that other B2B marketers mightencounter. And and also kind of a second portion of that question, youknow, what are other general warning signs that people might not be nailingthis? Well? Uh so it's always easy to start with the negative first. Right,So I think we all are looking at falling, we're looking at a level ofsaturation of my digital content that's out there. And I think this is onewhere uh if there is something that we've all struggled with, which is whenwe're introducing something new to the market, I'm often bringing new productsto market and I've been 20 years actually working with marketers sellingMartek and other types of engagement, optimization type of tools. And so I'venot only been living the shoes of the market, but I've also been helpingother cmos actually try to change the way they experience, you know, firstand foremost, is how do I think about engagement? What not only what hooksand that's an acquisition game, but where am I actually putting the rightpiece of content uh in front of uh each person? And so when you look at notonly response to programs which are constantly be testing, but what is thethe set of content as we moved into creating, become content machines? Whatis the effectiveness, all of that content? How am I promoting andtherefore what response rates? And that's one that I think we're allwatching. Where are we in, you know, in in that side, number two, you know,when we think about general warnings of of when things are wrong, you know,it's going to be breaks in the journey, right? I'm often looking at the fullfunnel and one of the things that has changed is not just sort of em que ele,but all the way from where people are...

...showing intent and how am I actuallyable to move them through a level of do they know something about us have toengage with the little piece, having moved them from the first touch toactually start to engage deeper in my content. And then from there do I getthem into a level of, you know, why us and wanting to engage with us now andearn the right to be able to get them to connect with one of our sellers. Andwhat's interesting is, you know, now that we, again, we have all this data,the conversion rates, like we said, response percent content, but now weget much more specific about the context by which were actually exposinguh, folks, each one of those pieces of content. And so leveraging, automation,leveraging tools like relevance to be able to surface, right content is where,you know, really accelerating the funnel is where we see it in terms ofthe friction points. Um, I think we, we, you know, we hit a couple of those andso, um, for me, especially on the BdB world, the friction points are, let metake a step back from a BB marketer when we talk about engagement. You knowthe friction points are not only on that acquisition but also nowincreasingly how do we extend that to grow with our customers? And that'sbecome so important now and hence you know the engagement around how do weservice the support, How do we actually continue to expand usage? Especially asyou move more into subscription based world is so important. And so actuallylooking at all the transition points for conversion, Not only are earlywarnings but the friction points of acquisition is No. one The frictionpoints of actually getting to next year of of usage next year of value isactually the next friction point. Let me give you an example. So I wasworking with a a large grocer and they found that everything startswith a list. What's interesting here is my shopping list. Yeah, every saturdayI have my my my my typical groceries delivered to me. But if middle of theweek I actually think oh I need batteries and I add in batteries to myshopping list. I shift my perception of who I am. Of who the who this groceryis from just being a way to get deliveries to me on on my shopping listto any household goods. Be top of mind at point of need. That is the nextfriction point, acquire. The next fiction point is how do I actually growand get that next year of value with my customers. And so when you think aboutthe customer journey, the next point is how do I actually start mapping to andsaying how am I deliberately moving someone to the point where I'm nolonger just a list of shopping goods. I'm actually now a point where anytimeI have a household need, I think of this uh this brand and that is actuallythe other kind of inflection point I'm often looking for as I look to not justacquire, but increasing as marketers responsible for the full life cycle togrow mike. If there was one thing that...

...you wanted listeners to take away fromthis episode, what would it be? Well, I would say this, everyone can competewith the giants who have literally spent, you know, ton of money, millions,if not much more than that to deliver on their experiences. And I think thisis what makes marketing so exciting right now, if you want to provide thebest digital experience to compete with any of these guys, the tools have beendemocratized, right? The the, the investments they have made, like theamazons, the apples, the ubers of the world are now actually available andable to use actually less data to be able to come to the same level ofrecommendations to come to the same level of relevance. And so if there'sone message, certainly everyone can compete. They should look at, you knowhow to get started for sure. And I think you hit a couple of those points.Uh, and there are certainly experts like coviello that can help you meetyour customer and employee expectations and and help you along that road,brilliant. Well how can listeners connect with you, learn more about youand learn more about covert? Sure. As always, you know, you can, you can findus at gmail dot com at the same time we have a ton of resources. There are blogas well to just learn about what does it mean to try to deliver relevantexperience, tons of case studies, whether it's folks like zero, you know,for mike, uh you know whether it's sales force themselves and how they aredelivering experiences. So certainly recommend you start there. Um, you canalways find me, My twitter handle is mike me and uh if you feel free toreach out and contact me or my team any time and happy to answer any questionsknee like the body part that's spelled and I spelled and I short great onscantron great sketch. Well it has been so wonderful to talk. Do I have learnedso much? You've also just brought up a ton of questions in my brand that I'msure I'm gonna pepper you with later, but thank you so much for joining me onB two B growth. It's been a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. Is yourbuyer at BBB Marketer. If so, you should think about sponsoring thispodcast. BTB Growth gets downloaded over 130,000 times each month. And ourlisteners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Loganand email Logan at Sweet Fish Media dot com. Yeah.

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