B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2053 · 11 months ago

Unconventional Sales & Marketing Tactics

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez and James Carbary talk with Michael Hanson, from Growth Genie, about unconventional sales and marketing tactics. 

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Yeah, all right. Welcome back to be, to be growth. We are here live today on clubhouse with Mikey. Hansen Mikey is the ceo of growth genie and we're going to be talking about unconventional sales and marketing tactics if you're not already following dan and myself on clubhouse and you're listening to this podcast, make sure to do that at James Carberry at dan says, or you can just follow the B two B growth club on clubhouse Mikey. I'm pumped for this topic man. We, we got, I forget who connected us, but you're working with a lot of sales teams and you're trying to get sales teams to have more meaningful conversations and so there's a lot of tactics that I think we've all heard a bunch of people talking about and I want to focus this conversation on the unconventional stuff, the stuff that is not being talked about. And so before we get into some specifics, give us just a brief context as to why this is a topic you're so passionate about. Yeah, sure. I think it's a big topic at the moment is breaking through the noise. I think people are getting prospected more than ever. So you're like a decision maker, a company, if you've got any kind of budget you probably receiving, you know, hundreds of emails every day of people trying to sell you stuff and most of the messaging isn't great. But what that means is even if you're messaging is good, it's quite difficult to break through that noise if you've got to stand out amongst all the clutter that's just drunken in people's inbox. I think this is a topic of this. It's already obviously very important standing out. It's just gonna become more and more important. You know, as these kind of email automation tools rise is how can you stand out from the rest of the sales people? I think that's kind of two sides to it. One is like the medium that you're using, and then two is the actual message doing like how can you stand out from the crowd. So, yeah, I think obviously when it comes to sales and marketing is important, but I'm a big believe are generally in the unconventional side of life. So yeah, that's why I wanted to do this. Yes. So let's dive into it, Michael. So, uh, people calling you Michael, we're friends now. So I'm calling you Mikey from here right now. So Mikey. Let's dive into what are some of these unconventional tactics that you've been seeing either through work with your customers or as a customer yourself. Being prospected by a lot of folks. What are some of these tactics that you think could be really effective and really helpful for the folks in the audience today? Yeah, sure. I think I'll start with more like the mediums and then I'll talk a little bit about the messaging. So I think if we, if we think about mediums, one of things that we're seeing working very well, voice votes or audio notes Arlington. A lot of people don't even know that you can actually send them. A lot of the response I get when I send someone a voice note. Arlington is like, wow, I didn't know you could do that just as a technical thing. Unfortunately, Lincoln doesn't allow you to send on desktops, you'd actually have to download the app on your mobile, which is actually quite annoying. So I prefer not to have work caps on my phone because I spend quite a lot of time procrastinating on things like, like Lincoln. Um yeah, audio, that's really good. I really like them as well. There's a big buzz around video at the moment which I'll come on to in a minute. But I like audio notes as I find there are a lot more productive because I feel like in sales there's always that balance between having very relevant messaging to your target audience, but also not spending, you know, like half an hour to like write an email. And I think just pressing a button on Lincoln to to send a voice note is very easy. The second method of mention is is video. Like I just said that's a bit more time consuming. And then in terms of video as few tools, video and loomer to that. But I use and actually allow you to share screen. Always think about sharing screen on something that's actually about your customer. I've seen a lot of people...

...take videos sharing screen on their own product, which is not as impactful of two things. I recommend. Maybe go on their linkedin profile, share screen on their linkedin profile, like pick out a couple of nuggets from there or share screen on their company website. Maybe you go to their case studies page and say, hey I notice you're you're working with this customer and then start a story around that. So it's on the video side. And then uh last one I mentioned is uh is like direct mail and any gifts. There's a couple of tools that have really. Softwares are growing really quickly at the moment, reached desk and some do so and they integrate into your Crm and allow you to send stuff directly to people's officers. It's a bit tricky at the moment because obviously people on in the office you have to send it to the home address, which can sometimes be more difficult to get hold of. You can also send them e gifts in the in the post as well. Um And I think, you know, like I said vs 100 emails you may be getting a day, like sending someone a gift and not just any gift, you always need to think about what's relevant to them. What are their interests of research around them is a great tactic. Yeah, those those are kind of the mediums. I don't if you want me to get onto the master doing already, if you have some kind of questions around the medium's James. Yeah, so I'd be curious Mikey around audio notes. I've just noticed myself personally, I've been getting more and more of them and I've just caught myself kind of being less, I guess more resistant to actually listening to them. I think if I'm remembering correctly you can see how long they are in in your messages so I can see whether it's you know, a minute, 12 or you know four minutes. I think my thoughts would be obviously keep those as brief as you can if you can keep them under a minute. But what are your thoughts on length and then and then what the message, have you seen? Any effective message is done via voice note in linkedin? Yeah, definitely. And I think I think Lincoln actually limits you through a minute to harm me over a minute. You recommend pretty like 30-40 seconds. Is is the sweet spot. You can actually also interestingly send uh audio notes or like SmS or what's that? What's, that isn't as prevalent in North America, It was selling outside North America and I think it's it's actually the same as if you're sending like an email or on the phone or whatever it is, that that 1st 10 seconds make it 100% about them. Because I always say this with like an email subject line, you've got the subject line to get them to open and then you always got like a second subject line, which is almost like the subtitle of which is that first line of the, of the email. And it's the same with like linc Lincoln voice notes. Right? Like if I was gonna prospect you like to mention like this clubhouse from, for example, like, hey jones notice you did at all with Michael Hanson around convention, unconventional sales and marketing tactics. You mentioned voice notes. I'm sending you one now. So I always think about what's relevant to them. There's a big buzz at the moment in terms of personalization and I don't think you should never personalized kind of just for the sake of it. You've always got to tie it around to some kind of business challenge that they're facing as well because I think you you get a lot of people just kind of personalizing just for the sake of it. So it's like 1st 10 seconds about them bring it back to some kind of business challenge that you know, they're probably facing based either on their their industry job title or something we call triggers. Um, and a trigger could be they're hiring a particular position, they're using a particular software. It could be any number of range of things that you may be able to find out through research and then you got your call to action and you call to action. Again, you've got to think there's a few different course of actions. You can have one could just be to send a piece of content. So it's actually what we recommend, like the first few touches kind of build interest. Like hey, we got some, I see that you're a sales leader in the...

...marketing software space. So we've got a tactic around how you can sell to marketing leaders, some, some email templates or something. Like would you be interested in seeing it? So that's one tactic. Another tactic is obviously going more for the meeting. If you do that, you've always got to think about what's in it for them because people always just send like, hey, we got in a 30 minute call that's like what, 90% of 99 of sales people do you want to try and stand out from the crowd. And if you are going to ask for that meeting, it's important to say, what's the benefit of them to spend 15 minutes with you? Like think about them. Like what, what's in it for them to spend their 15 minutes to have to say, you know, interested in learning how we can help you do X, y and z and like make your life easier. So like, yeah, those are a few of the tips I recommend for voice notes that I think really stand out for any type of change. Awesome. What about videos? So we're big fans of bom bom. You mentioned Loom and Vidyard. What are some things that you've been seeing work really well when it comes to video prospecting? Yes. So yeah, we use those tools as well. Like I said, just sharing spring on something again, that that's relevant to them. So that could be their links and profile, that could be their company website, That could be a piece of concept. They're all they're all search. So we actually have a client called carter which is uh location intelligence platform, that probably doesn't mean anything to anyone, but it's essentially like a mapping software and they were getting targeted. Funny enough, I reached us the like direct mail software we just, I just mentioned and the, I think that one of the sdrs there had seen that on twitter, the VP of marketing, like spaghetti hoops on toast, which was just a weird things, it was like carbohydrates on carbohydrates. So they sent her a video of her twitter page and like started talking about this spaghetti hoops on toast. And I think sent them a voucher saying, hey, next time you go to the supermarket, get yourself some spaghetti hoops. That's just a kind of cool example of, you know, being authentic and being rigid off. What are your thoughts Mikey on. So I feel like I was actually dale in the room. We were on a uh we're on a road trip this weekend and this this conversation came up this idea that when you're trying to, you don't want to personalize just for the sake of personalization, but you've also got to understand that the people that you're trying to reach out to There are hundreds of other people trying to reach out to them as well. And if you instead of focusing on trying to get 10 people to meaningfully engage with you, if you're instead focusing on trying to reach 1000, you're likely not going to engage anybody if you're trying to reach 1000. But if you think about it in smaller terms uh and say man, what can I do today to get 10 people to meaningfully engage with me. It's doing the things like looking on somebody's twitter feed to see what, seeing what they're talking about, Looking at their linkedin profile to see if they're doing anything on clubhouse, but not everybody is as open as you or I or even dale or dan I know on this call or you know, I know Nick does this really well, like not everybody is creating a lot of content online. So do you have any suggestions for like, say you're prospecting into I. T. Uh we found at least with the folks that were, you know, the I. T. Folks that we're trying to get on our customers podcasts, it's tougher to find things out about them. Could you share some things like what what are some ways to personalize when somebody maybe isn't as active online? Yeah, that's a really great question. And we often face this challenge ourselves. So we we've got, you know, some modules around how to write personalized message doing for things like email and linked in and when we're doing training, if we if someone we say to our people were working with, you know, pick a target lead that fits your ideal customer profile. And then if we go in and then click on links in articles, et cetera, they haven't posted for a few months, they say, okay, what do we do now? You can just typing...

...type on google, like good old google has some information maybe on twitter. And then if you can't find anything, they don't offer any content, then think about it from a company level, right? You're always going to be able to get some information at a company level, especially if you're selling into the enterprise, do some research. Look at maybe like annual reports, looking they're hiring, look at their website. Like I said, you can look at the types of customers that they have and then do it more company level. And actually that can be quite good from like a an account based perspective because what happens if you do a lot of research, we have some customers actually have sales technically that sells people, but they're more research and almost like getting a load of information for their sales team to then use an outreach. And that's really good because that information that you research at a company level, you can actually use that When you're reaching out like 10, 20 people there because that information is relevant to everyone within that company. Um that's probably what I do. If you can't get any information at a personal level, look at the information that you can get a company level. Hi dan Sanchez here with a quick break from this episode, sponsor Vidyard. If you haven't started using personal video yet to enhance your marketing campaigns, you're missing out. Having the ability to quickly capture video and record my computer screen or both helps me not only create marketing assets faster, it makes them way more personable. I use personal videos and social media email blast landing pages and even on our website, Vidyard makes it easy to record host in bed and share videos to more deeply engaged with your ideal buyers prospects have told me repeatedly that they are blown away every time they get one for me. So sign up for Vidyard free today by going to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth and just like you guys, the team at Vidyard can't keep up with all these promo codes on podcasts, so they are making signing up as easy as possible. So no promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth to start using Vidyard completely free and as a bonus, get their 2021 B two B video trans guide. Yeah, that actually came up in our conversation as well. Mikey that going one level higher. If you can't find anything personal, find something around their company. I think that's a really good thought there. Um I want to go ahead and uh and open up the room for anybody in the audience that has questions for Mikey. We're talking about unconventional sales and marketing tactics. Mikey is the ceo of growth Jeannie. If anybody has any questions, comments, thoughts, ideas around you know what, maybe what? Maybe it's not a question, but something that you found that's been working for you, going ahead and raise your hand, will bring you up on stage and uh and we'll talk through it with Mikey. So Mikey, my next question for you would be around you, you had mentioned like Sin does so and some other platforms. We use craft um for our custom gifting. What have you found that works really well when it comes to gifting? Yeah, this is this is a kind of hot question we're actually looking at internally at the moment because I've only used gifting and like even he gifts more from like a closing perspective or like with warmer leads in the past, like as an a or even like customer success, it's it's worked really well. What we've typically done in those situations is obviously because we already have a relationship with the customer is like, say we want to send to get, This actually happened in the last company I worked for wanting to send a gift to like the CMO. But then we're also working with the head of business development, you just ask the head of business development, like what do they like, what are their interests, what are your hobbies? Like what can we send that's going to make them happy? So there was one person who actually, because I knew this person, I knew they really like running. We like sending a Nike gift card at christmas and said, hey, you know, buy yourself a new pair of trainers to like, you can run off...

...your christmas dinners in, in january. And then yes, I think those warmer leads is kind of easy. I think for cold leads were actually kind of new to this and we're seeing that it does work well, but it's new to us and we're trying to include things like uh, you know, e gifts and direct mail touches, even like colder leads. And uh I think again this comes down to like the research side of things that you can find anything on linkedin or twitter or wherever it may be on the inside. That that's good. And I think the more niche you can find things actually the better because that's even more, that's always what I say, like when you're doing research, if you find something that's very strange, like the spaghetti hoops example that I gave earlier, that's a really nice thing to do because that's super unique. So that's one of the things I recommend because I've the opposite of that. I've actually got a few people have sent me gifts recently where a small companies, it wasn't to get business because we're actually like, thank you gifts, which is great for like a couple of speaking gigs I've done. But what they did was send me alcohol and like, I actually haven't really drunk for like a couple of years. I don't really drink anymore. And I was a good example of, again, we're gonna send this person a gift, but we're not going to really put any thought into it. Obviously if they message me or ask a friend, they would have known that, you know, I don't really drink whiskey even though they sent me a bottle of whiskey. So you always do like a bit of research to find what someone likes, rather just kind of standing there just for this, I think about love it. All right, Mikey. One of the things that we are, you know, we've obviously built an entire business around this idea, but it is absolutely, you know, a strategy or tactic, whatever you want to call it. But it's this idea of engaging your decision makers at your target accounts by collaborating with them on a piece of content. So we ask a lot of our ideal buyers to be a guest on our podcast to be growth. We also do, you know, different types of collaborations with them so well, do you know, blog post with them? We will do, I've seen, I've seen companies do like awards where they're collaborating in in a little bit different of away. They're like nominating them for some award and those types of content collaboration I've found to be incredibly effective at actually building meaningful relationships instead of leading with, hey, look at my product, look at what I sell its, Hey, I want to shine my spotlight on you. We want to feature you in some content that we're creating. What are your thoughts around that strategy or that motion? Have you, have you seen it effective? Be effective for anybody that you've worked with? Yeah, I mean that's, that's a brilliant strategy and it's kind of similar to what I was saying before. Like we have a long cadence and often when people see, you know, the multiple touch points we have in cadence. So I always waited many touches and I say, well, no, not, we're not asking for a meeting on that first link in the email message, whatever it is we're saying, hey, here's a piece of content that we think could be valuable for you. And in your case is one step further, you're actually asking them to be on the podcast, making them feel important, giving them exposure to people as well, which is great. And that are the last company I used to work for before I started growth Jeannie. We actually did that, we were very outbound focus. So I'd say like 90% of our pipeline was coming from out bounding like 10% inbound. But even though our podcast, not many people listen to it, we actually got quite a lot of customers out of it because we would invite people that fitted are ideal customer profiles and then after having a conversation with them, you get to know them and they're like, hey actually we could use your services say 100% agree with that strategy. Yeah, there's a lot of, I think you can, you can go down a bad path with that. If you're clearly just using the podcast interview as a veiled discovery call, you have to go into it actually wanting to create really great content and by featuring your ideal customer and asking them about their expertise and how they've overcome challenges. It's naturally going to be good content for other...

...people that are in their shoes. So in our case by talking to be piece of marketing naturally, we're creating really great content for VPs of marketing because they're hearing from their peers and we genuinely want to create great content with them. The byproduct is the relationship with them and we know that we end up doing a lot of business with our guests because we formed genuine relationships, but if you're going in, just trying to bamboozle them into a meeting, I mean, nobody, it's just not going to where people are going to see right through it. So you've got to go into it with the right mindset, but it's good to know that you've seen incredible results from that as well. We brought up Justin jeffers Justin it looks like from your clubhouse profile that That you're in animation and you do some stuff with three D. Which sounds super interesting. But what is your question or comment? Hey, thanks for inviting me up on the stage. Yeah, I have a question. I'd like to turn in a little bit because I'm actually trying to reach out to marketing marketers and marketing firms because we partner with them to help them create more robust video animations, two D. And three D. And so what I want to ask is I'm reaching out by email via phone. The phone calls oftentimes No one in the office, so no one's answering or someone's there who's not a decision maker and they can't read, you know, whatever emails go unseen or trashed and I'm working on that. By the way. I see dale. The Prius here. Hi dale. Big inspiration man. Anyway, how can I unconventionally reach out to marketing teams and marketers? They're probably, you know, I don't know what's a game, what's something that I can do to really get their attention? So my first thought Justin and mike I'm sure has some thoughts here too. But my first thought is because what you're doing is just really freaking cool. You're doing three D. Renderings of things. My question would be, could you, could you somehow do some sort of three D. Render that you could tweak to where it's accustomed to the person that you're sending it to. You don't need to create a whole new thing for every person that you reach out to. But have you tried that at all? I have inquired about that a little bit. The problem is that I'm not really the animator, I'm just the connection point between someone and our studio. My role is account executive and I'm really doing a lot of different whatever sales roll, funk, whatever title you want to give me. But that's the difficult part. And I've gotten that feedback before a little bit. Um, you know, create something and give it to them for free. Like an animated logo would be one thing and I'm working on that with the studio to try to help them. We're working on some support, basically support media for me and and the rest of our sales team. Mikey. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I actually agree with with you James because I, I imagine it takes quite a lot of effort to make those little videos. Maybe it could even be like a five second video, 12th video wherever it is. So it's not a lot of work for your animation team. And then another thing I would say as well as rather than giving it to them, this is something that we've kind of learned over the past couple of years is when you're giving away a piece of content, actually don't send it to them straight away, like create curiosity about it and say we've got a piece of content. I thought it could be interesting because you're a marketer and you're going to be facing X, Y and Z. Content creation challenges for videos. I don't know your industries, you'll know your customer pains a lot better than us. Would you be interested in us sending a five minute teaser video? Like what that would look like? And then the reason that works well is they have to reply to get it. So you're starting a conversation with them. It's rather just like giving them the content like create some kind of curiosity around that. Um and that's something that's been working really well for us and our customers. Okay, great. Thank you so much. Awesome. Justin do we have your...

...permission to share your voice on the recording of this for our podcast? Yes, awesome. Thank you. Mikey. Is there anything else related to unconventional sales and marketing tactics that you'd like to share before we shut this one down today? Yeah. Something I realized I didn't talk about earlier in terms of mediums was SMS and WhatsApp. I mentioned it briefly, but it wasn't in my top three. I think I said video, audio notes And um direct man and e gifting. So to give you like a start, I think the average open rate for a cold email is 20 versus 19 for for an sms. And I think there's a lot of hang ups around SmS because people say it's very personal and you know, you shouldn't be using it for business means, but it's the same as anything else. If you're messaging is super relevant to the person you're reaching out to, then why can't you use it? And if anything, it's it's actually better that people aren't using it because you can break through the noise. People aren't receiving 100 business smS is a day. They are receiving 100 business emails, so you don't write off SmS and what's that? Just again, like anything just create very targeted messaging. Yeah, I had somebody I actually had an SDR reach out to me, I guess it was a couple weeks ago and it was it was such a personalized message. She even used my wife's name because I used my wife's name, and some of my some of my social media profiles, and so she incorporated my faith and like a lot of different things into the text message and ended up making me want to reach out and tried to hire her On our test team. Uh, so I think that there's huge opportunity there, but you cannot take a spamming approach to it if you're sending the same type of message via text that you're sending. Uh a lot of the messages that I'm sure you see to Mikey that I definitely see on linkedin that just looked like it was sent to 10,000 people. You're going to piss off a lot of people real quick. So definitely don't do that and take my keys advice of making sure that it's accustomed to them. But I absolutely believe in s a message of channel Mikey. If there's anybody listening live that wants to stay connected with you or or they're listening on the podcast and I want to stay connected with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, sure. So follow me on, on linkedin, if you just type in Michael Hanson growth Jeannie there by profile should come up. Welcome to email me as well. It's M Hanson at growth genie dot co, I couldn't get the dot com domain, so it's dot unfortunately. Yeah, those are probably the two best channels and I'm always happy to help anyone whether you're an SDR VPs, L was found or whatever it is. I'm get out wonderful, awesome Mikey. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Justin, thanks for jumping up on stage and asking a question again, if you're listening to B B growth on, you know, some sort of a podcast platform and you're not already following dan or myself on clubhouse, do that at dan Chevez or at James. Carberry can also follow the B two B Growth club on clubhouse. We're doing these monday to friday from 12 to 12, 30 Eastern time and we're going to be probably continuing to do them through april. We were originally just testing it to see if we can make the marketing at noon room work through March, but it's going really well. We're having a lot of fun with it and so we're going to continue doing it through april. But thank you all so much for being here. Thank you. Might be, this has been incredible. Also is your buyer at VtB marketer. If so, you should think about sponsoring this Podcast. BTB growth gets downloaded over one 130,000 times each month and our listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Logan and email Logan at sweet Fish Media dot com.

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