B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2073 · 5 months ago

Thought Leaders Guide to Building a Magnetic Personal Brand

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks to R obin Farmanfarmaian about the importance of personal branding for thought leadership.

They discuss:

  • Practical steps to building a magnetic person brand
  • How to find and leverage your personal story
  • Why authoring a book is key to thought leadership

Yeah, welcome back to be, to be growth. I'mdan Sanchez, my friends call me dan says and I'm here with Robin Farm. UnbArmenian, who is the author of Thought Leader, Formula Robin, Welcome to theshow. I have been so excited to talk to you today, thanks for having me.Fantastic as the audience knows. I've been on a deep dive in this month ofjune to talk about thought leadership, marketing and all things like relatedto thought leadership, how to create thought leadership content. What doesit mean to be a thought leader and what path does one have to take in order tobecome a competent and actually well respected thought leaders? None ofthose fakers that make all of us cringe when they are used dropping declaringthat there a thought leader out there on linkedin, right, How do you actuallybecome an authentic thought leader? And those are the questions were exploringin this deep dive. I was excited to talk to Robin because she wrote afantastic book I have here with me now. And there was a number of interestinginsights I had from the book though there was none more interesting than Ithink her take on personal branding within thought leadership. So what Iwant to head into that topic first, I wanted to get your back story for theaudience. Robin, if you could elaborate like how did you get into thoughtleadership, how did that become a thing for you? So what I did is I used towork in both events, but also business development and sales. And this is allaround health care technology companies. And when I first got to Silicon Valleythe first few years it was kind of tough. I am a high energy, very petiteblonde and uh in Silicon Valley which is mostly men and I found myself beingsexually harassed uh sabotaged at work. I mean it was crazy people stealing mywork. And I realized early on you can't fight that directly through somethinglike HR HR is not there to protect the woman, right on the employee. It'sthere to protect the company. And so as soon as I realized that I decided tochange the game, I went home one weekend and I created a five yearproject plan for myself on how to become a professional speaker andauthor in order to have a stronger name and presence than the men that werepushing me down and let me tell you it worked beautifully the day my firstbook published the patient as Ceo. It was like flipping a light switch on onthe sexual harassment and sabotage in the workplace. In fact, it changed thepower dynamic so much that I felt like I was in a tank and the men were onhorseback. And so when the Me Too movement happened, fast forward to 2016,I realized, wait a second, it's this is happening to other women. Like that'sthat was a big thing. Like we didn't realize it was happening so many otherplaces. So I said, you know what, I have a solution for this instead oftrying to fight people directly on this, why don't we raise up the women rightand do what I did for myself. But for, you know, millions of women out there.And so I took my five year project plan, turned it into a system for anyone touse regardless of industry. And that's my solution now for the meetingmovement. That's fantastic. That's so interesting that it like positioningyourself as a thought leader and having people like believe it and it's notlike it was fake that it's real and it's something substantive to believe,like repositioned in people's minds and it just had them behave differently foryou. It was because it was for some very practical reasons, but obviouslyit came with a lot more benefits than just keeping men from being jerks. Whatwere some of the other benefits you saw from being becoming a thought leaderand establishing that sense of trust and confidence that other people putinto you. So really it comes down to when you're going to do something likethis and I put a lot of time and money into building myself into an author anda professional speaker. You need a multitude of reasons. So I always thinkof myself, okay, so what are those top...

...three reasons? First of all I can, youknow, battle against these men done Right. Second of all, I do businessdevelopment and a lot of the times sales, which means now that I'm anauthor and a professional speaker, I get access to events that people don'teven know are going on like internally at some of the big insurance companiesor the big device or pharmaceutical companies. And I get to meet the ceosof like Fortune 500 companies all the time by being able to be an invitedspeaker there. And so that really helped with the business development.And then I also understand that technology is really disrupting a lotof the way we work. And so I believe in multiple revenue streams you cannotrely on anymore. Just one salary from one company over, you know, your careerand expect to be able to survive. And so if you have multiple revenue streams,you'll be able to turn to one in the case of something like a pandemic or ofcourse artificial intelligence or robotics taking over or displacing yourjob in some way. And so we saw this this past year because I have so manyrevenue streams that I was able to set up because I'm an author and aprofessional speaker means I could lean on a lot of them when my professionalspeaking went away, like Ma'am overnight, I lost most of my paid talksand I was able to very quickly just rely on one of my other revenue streams.Fantastic. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. And I've also, Imean reading a lot of thought leadership books, a lot of thoughtleadership books are more geared towards the person who wants to becomea thought leader than the marketers who want to position the company as athought leader, which is kind of two different things. But they obviouslyoverlap because a lot of times the amount of position a company as athought leader, usually taking maybe the ceo of founder and a internalsubject matter expert and turning them into the face of the company or faces,Right. Um, so lots of overlap between those two things, but I've certainlythought about how, I don't know, I think this is going to become a biggerpart of the future for many people, especially as, you know, taxes go upfor companies, you can't hire as many people, people are going to be leaningon contractors more that a lot of people will essentially become a mix ofcontractor. Thought leader, freelancer with probably there are side hustlesand businesses going on. Well, I think a lot of people are going to have todiversify income in this in the future and they're probably more peoplereading your book and others like it to do so, so it's fun to be on theforefront of what I think is going to be even a more a larger tidal wavecoming in the future. One of the things you dive into in your book is aroundpersonal branding and one of the things that I want to dive into before we evencover, like the things you go into and being, how to build a personal branch,very practical is why personal branding is actually a really important part ofbuilding out your thought leadership. You got to look at it as if you were acompany and in fact I call myself Robin inc because I look at it like a companyand so you've got to build that personal brand the same way you wouldbuild a company brand. What is the voice? And I mean by voice, not justthe way your voice sounds, but how do you communicate? Is it with, you know,long science words or you're communicating to more of a generalaudience. So really everything that goes into a brand what you look like,right? So for instance, I'm recognized by complete strangers from behind. Likethat is kind of crazy. I have people come up to me all the time. High youRobin firm information and it is, it's hilarious. So I have so many differentaspects of what I look like that are very signature and very, very obvious.So like imagine if you are a guy and a lot of guys in my world are, you know,physicians or they work in firma or med device. And so you know, a lot of thetime they'll still dress up to go to conferences and they're like, oh, I'mgonna wear a pocket square to differentiate like how is anyone goingto see that? Right? Like you want your...

...signature look and I call it asignature look to really be something that's in all the photos. And so that'sreally anything from your, you know, chest up and it's not going to alwaysinclude a something like a pocket square. The other thing is, is is itvisual from stage? Right? Like a lot of the time, something as small, like apocket square or even just like maybe the way you do your makeup isn'tvisible from stage. And so things like your hair, your eye glasses, if youwear glasses, that is a fantastic opportunity because you can do thefunny rims or a certain color, right? We were talking earlier that youremember one of the speakers because he wears these bright yellow glasses, yep,all those little things and I find personal brands can be powerful becausethey're essentially a representation of you, but they're not necessarily thefull you, right? And I think I've often often heard advice when it comes tobuilding personal brand of just be you right, which I've always kind of feltrings true and at the same time it's kind of frustrating because you're like,well what do I do with that? That's like just be me. I'm a lot of things,it's like which part of me like the past me currently or like the me, I'drather be out in the future somewhere. So it's not, I don't find that it's thebest advice when it comes to personal branding. So like one of the things youtalk about is being authentic or a B A always be authentic, which I find isreally important. It's like of course, it's not like when I say just be usedbad, don't mean to be someone else, but there's something more to it than justbeing who you are all the time. So when you say always be authentic, how do Iactually go about doing that practically? So first of all don't telllike white lies. So I when networking, I use this kind of an example when yougo up to someone, I like to compliment them on something that I like aboutthem. But I will never compliment on someone on something I don't like,right? And that's just one very simple example of showing you where peoplewill understand that you are either telling the truth or you're lying. Yousay, oh I love those shoes on you. It's really obvious when you're lying, right?And so take that kind of situation. But put yourself on stage, if you aretrying to tell people something that you yourself don't believe in, or ifyou're wearing something that makes you feel uncomfortable or you're not usedto or you've taken someone else's advice on a brand new haircut, a you'renot gonna be coming across as someone who isn't um isn't lying, right? You'renot going to come across as if you are telling the truth, you're going to comeacross as feeling uncomfortable. That is so obvious when someone is wearingsomething they don't like, it is incredibly obvious to everybody elsethat they're uncomfortable, right? And so if you are always authentic, alwaysexactly who you are. You're never put in that position of being that impostor,and no one's going to notice that. So there's a little bit more to it thanthat, I think is even like when you dress up and you're taking photos andyou're on stage you're wearing the same things, but I'm like even in this bookcover your brain like a red dress and I've seen you another book covers,you're wearing similar type dresses um in different colors depending on theaudience, Right? Something you mentioned the book, but you're probablynot always wearing that dress. Maybe when you're behind the scenes or it'slike a cozy work saturday or something like that, or you just outfit the mall,you're probably not always wearing those things, but when you're on brandor you're picking something, you're probably really comfortable in thisdress for starters, so it's not inauthentic, but when you're getting inbuilding your brand, you're essentially highlighting certain aspects to you andkind of leaving the rest off the table, is that right? Exactly? To give you anexample. I gave this talk in Germany and it was at this giant sportsconference and I mean like full on like fitness studios, were there giantpieces of fitness equipment and for my main talk, I went in my normal dressand high heels and then the next day I...

...was doing a kind of more of an informalsit down interview and so I decided to grab some workout equipment, likeeveryone else is wearing workout gear, I threw on sneakers, yoga pants and oneof these energy harvesting shirts, it was, you know, high tech workout shirt,nobody recognized me, like the people who are, who are waiting for me andthey had never met me in person, but they were watching for someone with adress and high heels on and they're like, where where is she, where isRobin? She's late? And I'm like, hi, I'm right in front of you. It washilarious because I was just not even recognized because I was in that sportin uniform. So you feel like building a personalbrand is really like just highlighting the parts that you want to highlight inorder to essentially. I mean it's kind of a marketing play. You're, you'rehighlighting your finding out what the audience expects to some degree andyou're bringing the right elements that are true to you. But you're kind ofmixing and matching. You're trying to bring the right things so that you'releaving the right impression that you want to leave its designing based onwhat's already true about you. And it's a lot more than close, but be fromanything from the way you talk to, the way you write to, the way you'll takephotos to, the way you talk on camera, to the way you do a podcast interview,right? It all has to be authentically you, but obviously it is designed alittle bit and that you're being specific in the way you're comingacross, yep, and consistent. So what's consistency is key? So how do you goabout choosing those things? Like how do you work backwards? Like for example,how did you choose the dress as the signature item? Did you think backwards?It like no, like what do I want to look like? How do I see myself? Or is itsomething like, what would they expect? Or is it kind of like a blend of thetwo? It was nothing to do with what the audience would expect. It was 100% whatam I comfortable in and what is someone of my job would normally wear? Right,So first of all I'm just really comfortable and sheath dresses, likeit's almost like wearing pajamas, but they are nicely fitted and tailored,but it's just so soft and easy to move in and so it's much more comfortablefor me than, say, a pair of jeans or something like that. And then I'm insales and business dev, you know, I meet with sea levels, you know,executives, I meet with investors and so people don't always show up intothose kinds of things with like jeans and sneakers on to begin with. Sothat's first off, and a lot of my paid keynotes are consider business attire,Which means, again, you shouldn't be wearing like jeans and sneakers. Sothat was already off the table and it's just something that I was alreadycomfortable in and I can by repetitive Lee. So I literally do have the exactsame dress in, like 20-25 different colors, patterns and, and fabrics, butit's essentially the exact same dress. Yeah. And that just helps peopleremember, helps give you a distinct style and your new thing. Like if youpicture Simon cowell's in your head, I guarantee you you're going to thinkabout him in a particular shirt, You're thinking about it right now. It's ablack v neck. That's what he wears. Either he decided that or a brandspecialists who specialized in like brand identity told him, hey, this isyour thing, right? Some, some people like steve jobs just decided they likeblack turtlenecks. But oftentimes celebrities are being told by highlypaid individuals what their look should be and how to be memorable becausethat's a big part of the game. Things you need to think about it as a thoughtleader. I know we're spending a lot of time on dress, but this plays into like,I think most areas of branding, right? Finding that thing that's true toyourself, that's appropriate within the space or maybe strategicallyinappropriate. Right? Exactly. And then trying to be consistent in it. So let'swalk through some of those other elements that you've spelled out,including enhancing your name. Tell me a little bit more about that. Sure. SoI'm lucky in that I'm the only Robin furman for me in in the entire universe.But when I google other people's names, sometimes they're not the only name inthe universe. And it can be really hard...

...to differentiate. So if you have, youknow, a first name like Michael or David, which is very, very popular. Andthen you also have a last name that is also a popular last name. You mightwant to tweak your name some way, right? And that might be adding the doctor tothe beginning. That if you're, you know, if you are a doctor or it could beadding a middle initial or it could be, you know, using a nickname butsomething that will literally differentiate your name. And if youcan't think of anything and your name is something uh, you know, popular likeMichael scott, like just or Michael smith or something like that, you couldsay Michael sweet smith, technology entrepreneur and like have those twowords always appear with your name. So you're essentially branding yourself ina name and that way you can differentiate yourself because let metell you, there are a lot of speakers and authors where I've tried Googlingthem and I couldn't find them right away. If you're not those first fewresults for your, not only your subject but your actual name. You've got todifferentiate from the people who are the first results for your name. As amarketer, you're probably brainstorming outside the box ideas to engage yourprospects and customers working remotely. And you've probably thoughtabout sending them direct mail to break through the zoom fatigue. But how doyou ship personalized gifts to remote decision makers When you have no ideawhere they're sitting at B two B growth? We use the craft and platform to sendhyper personalized gifts to anyone working from anywhere. Crafting makesit easy for your prospects and customers to pick and personalize theirown gift in real time and offers highly secure data capture. So decision makersfeel comfortable submitting their home addresses for shipping purposes. To getyour own personalized craft and gift. Go to craft um dot io slash growth toschedule a demo and receive a complimentary personalized gift fromcraft. Um to claim your personalized gift, go to craft um dot io slashgrowth, that's fantastic. I was just thinking, I'm like, you know what? Ikind of stumbled into that on accident, hence calling myself Danchev and justsaid to just dan Sanchez, which became, was, it was like a hashtag like eveneight months ago, I just started doing it on linkedin and people have stuckBecause there is honestly about, I think there's about 2000 of Dan Sanchezis out there. It's a common name, so I mix it together and I'm pretty much theonly one that goes by Dan says now it's awesome, it's cute, it's funny, it'sinteresting and it's still, I can still go by dan Sanchez and people know, butit's still just a different naming thing and the way we know GaryVaynerchuk, uh he's got such a long name, he just started going by Gary Vbecause less syllables is usually more memorable. That kind of depends. Right?So I know he had shortened it and a lot of I've seen a lot of people play withthe name, what would you say to people who have like just really harshsounding names or like they're just names, it's kind of like, you know,they just don't have a great name. What would you say to people like that? Haveyou ever worked with customers whose names are just sound not funny, butlike they're hard to really hard to say they're they're impossible to spell. Icould think of like a friend whose last name is like sub check and it's it'sliterally impossible to spell right and even the way I said it, you would neverguess the spelling of it. So I would say make sure your first name is easy, right? And so I do have some clientsthat I've worked with and some entrepreneurs have worked with fromchina right and their names started with an X and for an american, anythingthat starts with the letter X, you say x x ray, right or something like that.And it's so rare in the english language, I'm like no one can rememberhow to spell your name and no one knows how to say it. So you need one of yournames, like your first name or your last name, but hopefully your firstname be something that the audience you are trying to target and reach will beable to remember and spell and remember. A lot of Hollywood actors and evenauthors change their name all the time.

Some of them changed their name to becompletely brand new and nothing like their old name and some just tweaktheir names. But really I mean if you want to go ahead and tweak your nameyou're welcome to do that. There's no reason you even have to go throughanything legal. You can have that stage name that name that everyone on socialmedia calls you by and everyone on your email list but then you know when youpay your taxes you pay under your normal name. So many different ways tomix and match it could literally be a nickname. It could be you probably nametied to the industry if you can find some fancy alliteration to make it workor and find the domain name and then everybody kind of knows you. Is thatthing think about E patient Dave right. E patient Dave. I don't most peopledon't know his last name is D bronc something I can't even remember itbecause it's hard but I remember e patient Dave right? And he's a veryfamous E patient now, just by that name, yep, that works. I think the one scarything about is you get locked into that one thing and it's hard to pivot later.Right? But I'm sure people have done it. One thing you talk about is having afundamental truth. Tell me a little bit more about that. It's not necessarily amission of a kind, but what do you mean by fundamental truth? So when I'mtalking about your thought leader formula itself, it is a combination ofyour y and your fundamental truth and that's really the beginning of yourthought leader platform and so your fundamental truth is something that youbelieve that either the rest of the world doesn't even know about yet ordon't actually agree with you, for instance, my first book and how Ilaunched myself was the patient as Ceo, right? And that is a concept that whenyou go to places like Germany and Japan, their mouths dropped open because it'sa very paternalistic healthcare system. And so when the patient goes in to seea doctor, they're not even supposed to ask questions, they say yes, thank you.And then you're supposed to go do what the doctor tells you to do, right? Andby saying the patient is the Ceo that is a dramatic shift in how people viewpatients. And so that's my fundamental truth. But it also is something that Itruly believe, right, always make sure you walk your talk. I'm I am theessentially Ceo of my own healthcare team and I demonstrate that over andover and over again with real life scenarios and I talk about it on stage,so it makes sense. You're essentially like taking what is a long explanationfor what could be in finding a very short insistent way to summarize itinto one a one liner kind of like um Toyota has always better never bestright to summarize kind of the lean manufacturing, which has a whole bookbehind it, but you can kind of get the sense of it and always better neverbest write your summarising your truce. And would you say these truths are likethe unique things you're doing to expand the industry? Because I'd saythought leadership is making unique, it's not just being an expert, it'smaking unique contributions, right? And these truths are your uniquecontributions as a thought leader, your pillars as a thought leader. Exactly.So thinking about the fact that also many of us have more than onefundamental truth, So it's really targeting it down to that one conceptthat you can build a brand off of a platform, remember anything you do nowdoesn't mean you can't do other things next year or the year after, right?You're not going to pigeon your whole yourself necessarily. I mean if youcall yourself e patient dave maybe you don't go into agriculture with thatname, but in general like with the patient as ceo I've done now thehealthcare stuff, I've done the thought leadership step. So I thoughtleadership stuff which I can't say obviously and I've also donefacilitating virtual events. So I've put out a book in the event world right?And now I'm about ready to put out 1/4 book and that's on a I democratizinghealthcare. And so really I I decided...

...not to let anything pigeonholed me, buteverything just keeps building absolutely. I have noticed that thoughtleaders, you are professional thought leaders often have a specific beachheadthat they come in on with one idea, but then afterwards, once you kind of havethat established you can do one after another after another. Hence Gary Vstarted with the wine guy, he was the wine guy and then he became the socialmedia guy. And now lately he's been the crypto N. F. T. Guy. Like he keepsadding these feathers to his hat. But ultimately it's becoming a truerexpression to him and you can continue to add those things. Of course he wouldsay that you only know 5% of who I actually am because I've crafted thisbrand, but you can do one thing after another though I'd say usually probablyhave to pick one thing and stick with it for a while. Yes and I mean that'sthat's something from from Silicon Valley entrepreneurship. Right? Whenyou are first launching a company, you need to be able to do one thingincredibly well with a very well defined vertical, Right? And so forinstance, I worked at a health tap back in 2010 and this is data andtelemedicine type platform and when we first initially launched in order toget feedback and really kind of look at the product, we did it just forpregnant women and new moms, even though we were not even remotely goingto focus on that later on. Right later on, we were planning on going acrossall the major diseases, from diabetes to cardiovascular health, but we reallyjust launched in that one well defined market, so we could get traction andthen once we were able to get traction and understand what was going on, thenwe expanded across diseases. Makes sense? So just like it's youincorporated right? You really do have to do to build a personal brand and Ithought leadership, you really do have to think about all the things thatnormal business would have to think about. Just like if you were startingup, you do have to think about who's your market, who is your audience,what's the solution generally that you as a brand bring to the table like allthat kind of like um like steve blank's four steps to the epiphany, the leanstartup kind of methodology you really have to bring yourself, which isprobably why a lot of people don't get into it because let's be honest, likethose steps and entrepreneurship are kind of hard. Let's say they do find itthough. How long do you think you should stick to it or when do you know,you were able to break away from the first thing you got established and canestablished another thing? Well, first of all, um has it fed your revenuestream enough because you shouldn't be launching yourself just as a thoughtleader and expect money to fall in your lap because it's not going to happen.Right, What is your business model? So looking at your business model, haveyou been able to feed it correctly? Is it working? And once it started workingand really got new traction then, is it time to launch a second brand or, orvertical? And what is the business model for? That? That makes sense, Butyou might have to pivot on the way there in case the first one didn'tquite, I don't know if I'm ready for whatever reason, just didn't connectthe way you wanted it to. So it might be interesting. Moving on. One of theother things you talk about for a personal brand is catchphrases and Ilove this. I recently read about even at a different thing, a book calledPrimal branding, I think they caught words or like um sacred words, but I'mlike, it's kind of the same thing, like what do you mean by catchphrasesspecifically? And then I'd like to kind of go back and forth on differentiterations of it. Sure, so thinking about what are those 3 to 5 phrases?And I mean just to start that you repeat over and over again. Right? Soone of mine would be the patient as ceo, right? That's both fundamental truth. Abook name as well as a catchphrase, Right, Another catchphrase could beback when I first launched that book Doctors as medical Engineers, right? SoI could just say that concept over and over again and all of my interviews andput it in my books and put it up on stage so that these are concepts andphrases that get associated with your brand, What would you think aboutcoming up with phrases that are not...

...necessarily tied to your thoughtleadership, but tied to just you and your personality or tied to somethingthat's specific about your brand. Have you played with those at all withyourself or with customers? Uh so it kind of blends for me because I do haveenough catchphrases now and enough things that I can go into likefundamental truth and your why? Right? That's another one of my essentiallycatchphrases. So it's just, I mean you can really have as many as you want andthey can be related to either just your personal brand or to your businessmodel, but they're really just things that you're going to say over and overagain concepts that Essentially getting your concepts down 3-5 words, 3-5 words.That's a good rule. And it's funny because we can all think of differentcatchphrases from all popular brands, like Nike is most famous, just do itright, is a catchphrase from their brand and ways to sink your teeth intosomething and they can probably be more thought driven or maybe concept driven,certainly more emotionally driven, like just do it. Um could probably be allover the place. In fact there might be I imagine would be powerful if you canwork emotion to it. I don't know how thought leaders would work more emotioninto a specific phrase, but I imagine it's possible the last thing you kindof have in your steps to building a great brand, is building your bio orstory. So, tell me a little bit more about that. Well, if you haven't had aprofessional bio done right, and, like, you're launching yourself as a thoughtleader, I'd say, have someone can help you with it, because sometimes you areso close to it, that it's difficult for you to really take out the things thatare most important, and so what I did now, I'm an expert of course at writingbios, and I can write my own or anybody else is in a matter of minutes, butwhen I first started out what, eight years ago, I was like, I don't know howto do this. And so I brought on a pr company who went and went through andcreated like a small bio, a medium length and then a super long bio for me,and then I just took those and I built off of them. So you kind of build adifferent back stories for different people depending on their fundamentaltruths and their audience, I imagine, because everybody is you have a reallyeverybody's got a really long backstory. If you tell someone to tell you aminute and 20 stories, they can ramble for 20 minutes, but most of it's notreally relevant to the audience. So what kind of things are you looking forwhen you're looking at a story, let's say they're there, want to become athought leader there, they sell to SAAS companies, right? And they want to bepositioned as a thought leader. They have a new way of running SAS companiesare helping them enhance reoccurring revenue or something like that. Maybethey discovered a methodology that really helps them do it, and they'vebeen pioneering that in the space like what kind of things are you looking forin that kind of persons backstory? So something that is personal that cangive that emotional response right? And tie you to that. So when we startedthis interview we talked about why I decided to become a thought leaderRight? Why I became a professional speaker. It's because I was so pusheddown in Silicon Valley and how that much you know how that changed theequation. And so there's that story where you can have the emotionalreaction and take them onto that success thing. So that's always a goodone. or what may be some kind of an epiphany right? So that one works welltoo. Like you were watching a baseball game one day you were at work and youknow your I. T. Guy said this and then all of a sudden bam the light bulb wentoff and you had an epiphany and that's why you want to do this. So it couldreally just be um anything that gives that emotional response. It sounds likethere's a couple different templates or ways of going about it. Like you justsaid because you had you had an obstacle that you were facing. You hadan epiphany right? That hey this should be a thing. Like you maybe you connectto different ideas together and you're like what the I wonder what some othercommon stories are. Kind of like I...

...guess they this this might be theepiphany but of common origin story for most companies is uh I had this problemmyself and I was like huh? How come nobody else does this? Right? Like Uberthat's the story. They were stuck in a I think a snowstorm and Harris and theycouldn't hail a cab and had ways to go and they're like, man, wouldn't it benice if there was an apple record? Just some in the cabin, they would come tome right, Uber was born. And I actually think the real story was a lot morelonger complicated, but it's certainly a nice soundbite that they'veessentially crafted into a story. Um Can you think of any other likeTakeaways or tactics for trying to find the story? 11 thing that I find happensa lot is like the story behind the company is like, well, it seemed likeit was a profitable market that was kind of interesting to me and thereforeI developed a product around it and I happen to have the right idea now, theproducts pretty good, but I don't have a really compelling story. It's becausethey didn't bring on an expert to help them, Right? So you've got tounderstand that in the world of marketing, you've got experts who havedone this for years and maybe have a lot of education. And then you've gotpeople who are starting companies who might be an engineer or might be abiologist or you know, might have studied finance, but not necessarilymarketing. And then, uh, you know, they try to come up with their own personalstory and it looks like it's a mess because they've never tried to do thatbefore. They're not an expert. So I tell people hire a coach for onesession, even just one session to really break it down. Because like Icould hear someone's personal story, you know, you could spend three or fiveminutes telling me and I'll get that down to like three sentences in seconds,right? Because I'm used to being able to do that. That is a skill that needsto be learned and actually used not just suddenly come up with at the spurof the moment when you want to become a thought leader. But if you want to tryto do your own first thing I tell people is no more than three majordetails, right? Yeah. Because a lot of the time someone will tell a story andthey go on like, have you heard of an eight year old ever telling a storylike on this favorite cartoon, eight year old right now? And it takes them15 minutes to tell you something. That should have been one sentence andthat's what a lot of people think our storytelling is. So instead think aboutwhat are the three main points you need to get across in the shortest length oftime. You want to write it on the back of anapkin or the back of the envelope? It's your elevator pitch. Yeah, sothree main points. And is it almost is it usually along the lines of like theworld was like this, there was a problem and then this it's kind ofthose things, if somebody who actually wanted to hire somebody like what whatkind of job titles are they usually looking for in their headline? Ofcourse they can contact you. But if they were looking for that one hour,like, okay, I want to just be able to tell my story for 30 minutes and theypull out the three sentences that are just going to work. What kind of personam I looking for that helps with that marketing team? Right. So yeah, so likethere are marketing companies, there are marketing coaches, there arecompanies that just literally work on personal branding a lot of the time. UmThese companies are 2 to 5 people or even just a solo consultant, like I'm asolo consultant and you just reach out to me and then you hire me for an hourand a lot of friends who do that kind of thing. So literally just startgoogling marketing marketing people on linkedin, Fantastic. And the last majorpart you do a huge push with your book on the power of writing a book. Now,this isn't super uncommon. I've talked to a couple of the thought leaders thatpush that, but I want to revisit it again because um the more I've readabout it, the more I find that this this is the thing. A lot of peopleagree that the Almighty book um despite social media being so popular is stillthe number one way you become a thought leader. Why? Better than a degree? Andlet me tell you why? So I'm a chronic disease patient and my whole patient asCeo book is based on that and the fact that I'm a technology entrepreneur, Iam called Dr furman for me in more...

...frequently sometimes that I'm calledRobin, like thanks guys, but I have a Bs in management and finance. That'slike my education. I am far from being a physician yet people just assume I amand this is a big deal in the world of medicine because most women who spendthat 15 years studying medicine, doing residency and fellowship and all ofthat most of the time are not called Doctor, which is kind of interestingthat people will just assume like they cannot get people to call them doctorand people just assume I am right. That's the power of a book. Just peopleseem to think that if you can write a book then you must be the world'sexpert. It's probably gonna go on like this for the next five or six years. UhIf you're trying to speak to generation Z, this is probably not the way. But ifyou're trying to speak to millennials, gen X or anyone older than that.Absolutely. A book is the equivalent of getting a graduate degree. Yeah. I mean,well did even write a book, even if it's and okay book, you still have todo a lot of work. You still have to do a lot of study and you still had toarticulate all the things you learned, right? Which is why college has, youwrite papers. But generally you write nonsense so called papers because Ihave great I've worked, I've had my M. B. A. And I've totted colleges beforeand reading papers like worse than writing them right? If you write a bookyou actually have to write coherent something in there. Even if it's likenot breakthrough. Um What if people feel like they're not ready to write abook? Like they have their an expert, they have some unique ideas but theyhaven't like flushed out their unique ideas. They haven't been practicingtheir unique ideas. They don't have a lot of evidence that show that you're,their unique ideas are like bulletproof yet and they're afraid that the realexperts will come for them. What about those people? So there's two thingsfirst to think about. First of all, single digit hundreds, maybe thousandsof people are going to read your book seriously. Like oh no there are veryfew people are actually going to read your book instead. They are going tohopefully be feeding your revenue streams like my revenue streams. Ifundraise for startup companies and health care and I'm hired by bigcompanies to come and give keynotes, right? So those are two of my bigrevenue strings. And so everything I do kind of wants to feed one of those. So,first of all thinking about that, but second of all this is a company, youhave to get that into your brain. Being a thought leader is not an individualside project you do for fun, you've got to think of this as a company and youbring on experts because writing in general, but then specifically writinga book, This is a big deal, it is a skill set and it takes a lot of backknowledge on even how the process works. Right? And so if you have never writtensomething more than 20 pages before, you might need to bring on extra help.And there are many ways to do that from, I I refer people to a bunch of mydifferent friends who will ghost off there for them or they will be thatperson who helps bring them through the process, like a coach that stands withthem and and it does a lot of the editing or help them with their outline.You can also use companies like Scribd media, who I used for my first book,which is amazing. They spend about 14 hours with you, they talk to you on thephone, they help you outline your book, then they spend 10 hours just sittingthere talking you through your outlined and everything is recorded transcribed,edited and then sent to you in a perfect book. Right? Those kinds ofthings are very, very pricey obviously. But then there are other ways you canhack it, go to something like scripted dot com and order. That's uh It'sessentially articles on demand from just writers who can do like 800 wordarticles or something. Order seven or 8, word articles. Put that together as abook. Right? An intro and write a conclusion, smash it together. Andthere's your book, write a book, is a...

...marketing tool. It is not a revenuestream. It's a way, I imagine if you package all your ideas in one book, youhave a really nice little package to give people your thought leadershipideas. Two, they may be paid you a little bit of money for it. So it setsthem up for maybe a bigger spend because the relationship has changed atsome point. You can you obviously just splinter out all the different contentin the book and all your social media post for who knows how long? So itplays a lot of different roles. But why, I guess, I guess the big part about abook more than a podcast, more than maybe a Youtube channel or social mediaof some kind is just the credibility that comes with the book. That's whatit is. It's the packaging, it's just the packaging, you could you couldliterally, you know, say your entire book out loud and it's not going tohave that same credibility as a physical book, even if it's just an ebook. And that's really just the psychological conditioning we have herein the United States around books. Up until now, No one realizes just howeasy it is to get it done. I don't know, I mean, it is hard to write a wellformulated book. Would you say? It's better to write it earlier or later? So,start now. Right. I, I published my book, I think about a year, year and ahalf into my thought leader journey and that was on my actual project plan. SoI came out with first a bunch of different articles that I had. I hireda PR company to place in high end magazines. So I had that kind ofcontent catalog out there. Then I did a bunch of key notes and I hired someoneto do like high end slides for me. And then I hired a team to come on and helpme with my book. This is a company, you are building a brand. If you are tryingto do it so low, you are probably not going to be as successful or it takes longer or maybe you justnever get it done. I can see the point of hiring someone to help and somepeople have enough drive to push it all the way through and knock it out in amonth or six months or whatever, whatever it might be. So this has beenfascinating. There's so many other elements elements in this book that wecould have dive into. But if you want to, you're going to have to go and readthe whole book. I think we flushed out one chapter pretty well, but that'sjust one of many chapters in this book. Um, so again, the book is ThoughtLeader Formula. There's a lot of books with the title, Thought, Thought Leader.This is the one with the word formula in it. Um, and you'll see Robin righton the cover, Robin, it's been a delight to have you on the show. Thankyou so much. If people want to learn more from you, where can they find youonline? What's the best social network and then what's your website? Sure. Soas I mentioned, I'm the only Robin Farm and Farm Ian in the entire universe. Soyou can reach me on linkedin facebook and twitter are the three that I'm onmost frequently. And my website is Robin Fs dot com. Fantastic. Again,thanks for joining me on the show. Thank you. Is the decision maker for your productor service at BBB marketer. Are you looking to reach those buyers throughthe medium of podcasting? Consider becoming a co host of GDP Growth. Thisshow is consistently ranked as a top 100 podcast in the marketing categoryof apple podcasts and the show gets more than 100 and 30,000 downloads eachmonth. We've already done the work of building the audience so you can focuson delivering incredible content to our listeners if you're interested emailLogan at sweet fish media dot com.

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