Where Thought Leaders Are Getting the Most Attention Today

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Mark Colgan about how speaking on podcast has become the new stage for thought leaders to share their message.

Mark elaborates on:

  • How to find the right podcasts
  • How to prep before you speak
  • The exact process to take to ask to be featured on a show

Yeah, welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm dan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and I'm here with Mark Colgan, who is the founder and C. R. O. Of speak on podcasts. Mark welcome to the show, cheers down. I've been looking forward to this all week. Fantastic. As you know, if you've been listening to the show for any length of time during the month of june, you know, we are diving deep into thought leadership marketing, breaking down what is thought leadership, how to become a thought leader, how to develop thought leadership content. And you might have noticed that there is uh it's certainly a trend when it comes to thought leadership marketing with getting your message out there and it's speaking on podcast, you guys all listen to podcast, you're listening to this one now and you've certainly heard people speak on this podcast who are not part of the Sweet fish Media team. We are usually interviewing lots of people, some of which we have asked to be on the show like Mark today and some of which have actually pitched us to be on the show. The funny thing is, most of the people that pitch us to be on the show get turned down almost instantly. But a few of them break through. A few of them actually do well. It's because they've done their homework, they've done their research, there's a way to do this well. And I've noticed there's a lot of people doing it well because as I listen to multiple other podcasts, I find that the people who are usually really good at this are speaking on many podcasts and getting their message out there um on a variety of shows and is highly, highly effective way of doing thought leadership content. So I have marked with me today to kind of break down why this is a trend, how it's working and then practical steps for you to implement it with your own team. Because as I've seen other people's process for this, I know that Mark and his team have the the best process I've seen for how to get on shows probably with the most authenticity, with the most reliability. It's the long world, but it's in the hard road, but it's also like just the best road for doing this instead of hiring like a PR agency just to spray and pray. So I'm specifically selfishly hoping that you're gonna listen to this implemented even for pitching BTB growth because I'm tired of getting PR like spraying pray emails being like, hey can we be on your show? We're going to talk about veganism. I'm like, are you freaking serious? We're talking about B two B marketing over here. What are you talking about? Their that off sometimes. So, Mark, before we dive into the topic of even just speaking on podcast is a form of thought leadership. Marketing. I'd love to learn a little bit about how how did you even get into the podcasting game? What's your background and how how how did you start this, this company around speaking on podcasts? Sure cheers down. And also thank you for thank you for the compliment that's really well received. Thanks. I guess I'll go back my my career history and maybe to be marketer sales and marketing. I start off in recruitment doing a lot of cold calling cold emails and then went into marketing and I worked in sales that kind of combination that led me to run a business last two years ago called Task Drive. And as their chief revenue officer and general manager, I had a bit of free time and I started to pitch myself as a guest on other cells related podcast And I saw that I was getting some pretty good results with those around 70% yeses on the pictures that I sent out. And then I thought, well, maybe it's just because of my profile, I don't know, let me test it with a couple of the other co founders. So I took their profile, created a little bit of a media kit for them and started to pitch out different topics to different audiences, um, and managed to land them on the podcast as well. And what I realized is that mixture of recruitment and matchmaking from candidates to roles and all my experience of outbound cells just really, really nicely molded together to create what what now is today called speak on podcasts. So, uh, in three months I managed to secure around 35 to 40 interviews for myself and the two other co founders at the time. And it just got to the point where I thought I'm even really good at this, or I've just got a very good process that I think other people would benefit from. I met my co founder back in May, so...

...almost we're almost a year old. Uh and since then we've been working together and speak on podcasts and we're growing the team to almost 20 people as of today. Fantastic man. I love that it came out of a need that you had and then that you built upon it and that it's actually process driven um rather than personality driven rather than building even a social clout that it's a tried and true process. And after I've heard your process on a webinar, we we kind of co lead together with sweet fish media kind of discovered why this works so well, but before we break down your your secret sauce and just give it away for the audience. Why is speaking on podcast become such a popular strategy, especially for thought leadership in particular? Yeah, I think we can talk about this without mentioning the elephant in the room of Covid and you know, a lot of people were leveraging conferences and offline events to uh to go to conferences and speak and develop their thought leadership and get that message out there. Um and you know, as you know, they were all cancelled. So with offline events canceled podcasting certainly saw an uptick and I know that you guys over a sweet fish, I have had a very busy 2020 because of this as well. So that's the first reason I think that more and more people are turning to podcasting to to share their thought leadership message because it's one of the best channels that they can, and it's accessible for anybody in the world as long as they've got a good wifi connection or internet connection. But more so than that, even in the world that we live in today, People still buy from people that they know like and trust and that's been said for years, but it's still so true. Even in 2021, um, speaking on podcasts, it allows you to really speed up the process of building that brand trust as you, you're able to leverage an audience that the podcast host is already built. And it, for me, it acts as a third party endorsement. And it's very much like having reviews and testimonials on your own website, which your marketer has just gone in and type those in, versus having reviews on cap terra or G to crowd or for the service based businesses. There's clutch and lots of other kind of websites which serve up these third party reviews and I think that's just become more and more powerful because Only 8% of buyers actually trust the promises that businesses make them. That's from a Forrester report in 2019. But by speaking on a podcast, it really helps you start to win the trust and build credibility amongst your potential customers and you do that by leading with facts with stories, you know, all the struggles that you've had, the challenges that you faced. Um, it creates a very intimate touch point with you and your potential customer. So that's just a couple of the reasons why I think podcasting has been used as a channel to increase that thought leadership. Can I throw in a few more? I think one thing that I've noticed is that, I mean selfishly this is why we love podcasting so much. It's just easier, right? Like if you want to submit an article to Forbes or the entrepreneur or to techcrunch, like it's just gonna be, it's just gonna take longer because it's harder to write a really good article and you're gonna go through their vetting process and it has to be like, like bulletproof has to be a great, but showing up on podcast, it's just easier. Yes, you have to craft like your general messages, but usually you've already had those ahead of time, right? And it took like you probably spent a little bit of time preparing for the show, but probably a lot less than it would have taken you to write an article for Forbes, right? So it's just an easier way. And honestly, like even writing for a bigger publication, people will read your content, but they're hardly ever going to glance at the byline. But here, like we've said your name multiple times, your voice, you're actually speaking, we know your unique person. And if people are like, man that was really good, they're probably gonna look you up afterwards. Unlike if your contribution to whatever magazine, like they may or may not click your byline and look at where you come from unless you strategically haven't done of back links in that article or something. I just feel like there's even even more so than traditional pr and getting mentioned in media...

...podcasting is going to be able to connect just a little bit stronger. Probably not as much as speaking on stage, but it's also a lot easier to get on the podcast and it has to get on stage definitely. And I think to 100% agree with you as well and you know, people are listening to podcasts when they're running, when they're washing the dishes when they're walking their dogs, so people are consuming the content and you know, for thousands of years, stories have been how we've communicated as human beings and it's just another format of storytelling and it's powerful because you read a Forbes article and even as a marketer as a potential customer reading this article, I know that maybe it's not the voice of the actual person who has written the article, it's gone through an editing process. You could ask me anything here dan and I could answer with anything that I want to and I often find by speaking on podcast, I get ideas for new content all the time because I get asked a question that I've never been asked before. I was on a podcast just the other week and somebody asked why do we add in delightful moments for customers? And I was like, it just feels right, that's that's why we do it. And that then kind of got the gears in my brain spinning about me thinking about that and actually formulating more of a process around delighting our customers and what that means to us as a business. Um so it's also a way to create brand new content completely off the cuff. Absolutely. I probably my favorite thing is jumping into these conversations, even interacting with you hearing your ideas processing and then spinning it back, going back and forth. The amount of insight that I get from learning even as just the host is great for me. But even being a guest on other people, other people shows I've been on a few uh when people ask me questions, it just gets me thinking and even I'm like explaining things that I'm learning. I'm learning by their own words coming out of my mouth sometimes, right? Um sometimes you're like, oh, the reason why we do that is like I've never, you explain it and then you're like, I've never even externalized that before, thank you for asking. You just pulled something out of me. It's almost sometimes it's like having these interviews come at you. It's like almost having like a coach, it like solidifies your own thinking sometimes that's just kind of a plus right to kind of move on. What are we actually influencing here? Like this is often like it's happening enough that sometimes I feel like it would almost would like just not work as well anymore because people are so used to hearing interview based podcast, people are so used to even hearing some person on like everybody show like Matthew McConaughey right over the last couple of months has been everywhere. I don't, he's just been blitzing all the podcast and he's been everywhere. Hence he's like even thinking about running for governor potentially here because he's been on so many podcasts and raked up so much influence what's actually going on. How does that create influence? Yeah, I think that to take a step back, we've got to remember that as marketers and salespeople, we design a funnel or a sales process for individuals to go through, but it's just one process or one funnel that we want all of these different people to come into and, and and navigate through and really when you think about it and the reason why speaking on multiple podcasts makes sense is that there's different buyers from different places all over the world, listening to different things, and also at different levels of the buyer's journey. A lot of people listen to podcasts to learn or to overcome a challenge that are actually experiencing at the moment. Like I, I get asked what's my favorite marketing book? And I was like, well, I haven't really learned anything new about marketing in books recently, because books that were published a year ago weren't talking about Tiktok for example, but I'll go to podcasts to listen to interviews with people who are doing well on Tiktok. So this goes really back to the buyer's journey and the buyer's journey actually starts a really long time before they reach out to a sales person. I think it's around 80% is the latest stat. And when I think about the last two software purchases I made from thinking specifically for the B two B um it was through word of mouth, office vibe is a team manager, team uh, engagement platform so I can get feedback from my team. I asked what are people using and...

...somebody told me office fire, it's got a really nice sign up process, check it out. The other piece of software was a, it's called Home Run, it's an applicant tracking system. Um, somebody referred it to me because they heard the founder on a podcast speak about it. So they'd never actually used the software, but they'd heard the founder, I went and listen to that podcast and I was like, okay, I like where this Ceo is coming from, I like the direction he, his vision of the business. So I signed up with Home Run, you know, the pricing was right and everything like that as well. There are other things that contributed to it, but those two purchases were both word of mouth and and referral and the more podcasts you speak on, the more chance you have of increasing the likelihood of that word of mouth. And as I mentioned, when people are actually, they're searching for a solution to the problem that they're facing and maybe your product or service can help them overcome that challenge. Can you really afford not to show up when people are searching? It's funny, I consider podcasting to be like a middle of the funnel type of activity only because the discover ability around finding new podcast is not that great, which is why I usually need like, you know, usually combined podcasting with like some kind of short form channel like linkedin, twitter, facebook, something like that. And while people are like hunting and searching on a Ceo and blogs and on social media, find on podcasting, they're usually they're usually learning, they're usually going a little bit deeper. Um So when they're hearing your voice either as a, as a host or your guests voice, they're actually like listening. They're not just scanning like in a blog post and picking up bits and pieces are actually probably listening to the whole thing. They probably scan to list the titles that were Interesting and picked out. One that was the most intriguing to them probably because it's the biggest problem they have or the thing that they have been thinking about lately, maybe an opportunity they've been considering. And so when you come on as the expert guest and they've been listening to you for a solid, 40, 50 min. like the chances of them look at least looking you up are probably pretty high because they just spent, I mean the amount of time you just had with them on a more intimate channel is up. So it's almost like you're, you're skipping the top of the funnel and just going straight to the middle of the funnel because the amount, it's not like just reading a tweet, that would be very top of the top of the funnel activity, podcasting. You're essentially inserting yourself into the middle of the funnel where they can do. And I guess it's top of the funnel, you for you, They're still discovering you. But that's like, it's a heavy hit for top of the funnel for you, right? Because it's somebody else's potential funnel. I'm just kind of thinking, I figured that's probably what's happening. Yeah. We've worked with customers before who said that they didn't want to go and speak on a podcast that their competitors were really speaking on. And I was like, no, that's the best podcast to go on because you do a better interview and deliver more value than your competitor did. Then people are going to have more, they may have more of an affinity to working with you. If you share some real raw insights and some knowledge that perhaps the competitive didn't share, then you just walk up to them. Um, and the likelihood is that they subscribe to that podcast, so they're going to listen to future episodes that come out as well. So it's the perfect one to go forward. So we managed to talk them around on on that particular scenario. That's interesting. If you're speaking on podcasts, your competitors are onto usually try to one up them by giving a totally different viewpoint or advantage point from them. Or do you just try to, I imagine you're not just gonna do what they do and blogging and just add more content. No. How do you you probably want to do that? Yeah. You probably want to have a slightly different angle. You can agree with them, you can disagree with them. There's no right or wrong answer but just be prepared that if you're gonna disagree you do it tastefully and respectfully and you've got the facts to back it up. So yeah. So I I do believe to come across come come across it with a slightly different angle or topic would be a better strategy then just if they said five tips you do you give 10 tips because you're right, it's not blog post that we're dealing with here. All right. What is your step by step process for doing this? This is kind of the meat of the episode that I think is the most exciting. I remember hearing it for the first time and they...

...can like, oh that's doable. It's hard, it's work but it's it's definitely doable. So can you break down your step by step process for finding shows uh and reaching out, getting on there, making sure you get the most out of the episodes that you do get. Sure. sure. So what you're asking, I spent the first few months when we set up the business, writing documents and processes. So this next few minutes is going to be a combination of around 300 pages of documentation and what I'll do is I'll try and give the shortcut version of it, which somebody who's listening today could could apply and put into practice straight away. So Um when you get to publish the book, 300 pages. Yeah, that's true, that's true. We we should do that, we should do its thing. So the first step ready to start with is really focusing on your message. You know, what stories do you want to tell, what angles are you going to talk about? And there's typically three ways that we encourage people to think about this and that's the solutions to common problems that your ideal customers have um insights that you have, especially if you're a software company, you've probably got a lot of data and insights of how people are using the product, the tools um and everything like that. And then also controversial opinions, one for me dan that I know you and I agree with is that you shouldn't really get content um that the majority of content should be undated and that's still quite a controversial opinion in in certain marketing circles. So having topics that are of interest and and would pique the interest of a podcast host is definitely the good place to start. So, you've got your message, your, your stories, and I definitely think about your customer stories and anecdotes that you could use to help back up your your messaging as well. I'll cover that slightly later than and then really, you need to ask yourself, it's time to do the research. So, who do I want to be speaking to? If I was on stage at a conference, I just paid An extortionate amount of money to get 15 minutes speakers who do I want to see in front of me before? Who do I want to see in front of me? So who are the customers that I want to be listening to my message and the way that we go about thinking about this for our customers were all about relevancy. We do not care about the numbers, it's about we we most we mostly focus on. Is this going to be a relevant podcast? And will there be a large percentage of our idol of our customers, ideal prospects listening to the show? So we ask the question what podcasts are your customers listening to? And if you've got customers ask them, you could also think about what podcasts are your competitors speaking on because if they if they're speaking on a podcast, you may take the hypotheses that they've done their due diligence and there's probably going to be a likelihood of of your target audience on there as well. And then also, this is one of my favorite ones down and it's around who are the influencers in your market or the software vendors with huge amounts of funding? Where are they speaking? Because if they're speaking and you served the same audience, then go and find the podcast that they're being, they're being interviewed on as well because again, there's more of a chance of that audience being your ideal customer profile. So we've we've covered the starting points of thinking about your messaging and your topics and then doing your research. Listen notes is a great database, which has pretty much 2.4 million podcasts, although I don't believe all 2.4 million active, but it's a great database and a place to start. If you're starting to look at the podcast that you want to speak on before I move on down. Any questions on these first two steps, Hey everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDP growth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show, but you may not know that. I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the past few months. And what used to take us four hours gathering contact data now takes us only one where 75% more efficient were able to move faster with outbound...

...prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them out at least I. Q dot com. That's L E A D I Q dot com. All right, let's get back to the show. No, actually I think it's remarkably clear. I think I like I have in my head exactly what I would do in order to get this done. I think the, probably the best step is just talking directly to customers and being like, by the way, who, who are you listening to? I mean, I could go to my linkedin page, you just ask them and I'll probably get a lot of answers. But specifically going to customers is probably going to be the better one. That's probably the first place to go. That's going to get you more like the people who are actually buying for me, rather than your social audience. Absolute. So once you've got your research, and of course, this is, this is going to going to take time. You're gonna need to find the email address of the linkedin, sorry, linked in profile, the email address of the podcast host. You want to make sure if that there's lots of podcasts out there down as you know, but not all of them are active or they haven't released a new episode in the last 30 days. So we kind of don't count those podcasts when we're working with our customers campaigns. We they're not qualified for us. We also look at the social media presence of each podcast host and the podcast itself as well as the amount of reviews, how frequently they produce new episodes as well. And this kind of allows us to give a little bit of a scoring because we give each of those parameters are waiting to give us a total school and that's how we kind of filter and sort all of our podcast that we reach out to to our customers. Uh, so once you've done done that and there is a lot of heavy lifting that needs to happen there. The next thing you need to do is is suggest yourself as a guest and you'll notice that I haven't used the word pitch, we've banned that word pitch internally and when I see it in slack, I'm like, no, it's not pitch, it's an introduction because what we're really focused on is thinking of the audience, the host, the majority of hosts really do care about their audience, that they spent the time building and the guests that they bring onto their show. Um and so ultimately the host cares about the value that you can bring to their audience, so make sure that you're looking for those key similarities between previous guests and topics and the ones that you can talk about as well and in your email. So we start most of our outreach via email. We like to highlight a few, either a recent guests or a few topics that they spoke about, but for example then I'm not gonna say, hey dan, I really enjoyed your interview with Mark about podcasting. We listen to podcast episodes. We were listening out for those nuggets of information that connects our customers to the podcast host. One of our customers is a huge Skydiving Fanny's done over 70 solo jumps, so if we hear that in the podcast from the host who's saying or maybe they previously had a guest on, we include that in our messaging. Writing PSS is probably the favorite thing that I like to get the team doing. Um there was one I wrote today actually because I still write a lot of these emails as well done One of them today is the host does craft McGarr. Uh and I used to do crack McGarr until I got to ribs cracked from a, from a roundhouse kick I wasn't expecting. So I put that in there because we're personalizing the experience that we are giving the podcast hosts. But yeah, highlight a few guests or topics and then make that connection between those topics to what you can talk about. Maybe you can add to, maybe you can disagree with, but really highlight why uh this would be valuable to the audience. And what we like to focus on as well is when we're working with our customers, we want to make sure that they're not coming and going on podcast just to pitch their product. They're actually going on podcast. Talk about solutions to challenges. So we always like to think about what actionable tips can you share with a podcast audience that somebody could listen to and implement straight away. And we do a very good job of highlighting that in our outreach And and mentioning that our customer is more than happy to share.

You know, the insights that he's experienced over 20 years of building HR functions in fast-growing startups. You know, that's a lot that that person can unpack and deliver. And then lastly, the call to action the sea to is we use a very soft call to action we never like to assume and again we're not pitching here. So we asked the question, would you be interested? And that could be done. Would your audience be interested in learning from dan on your podcast? Or would your audience be interested in learning about X. Y. Z. Topic on your on on the podcast or via an interview? And we also like to see like a lot of, we've met a lot of our customers and we know that they're good people and they're fun people as well. So if we feel that the host will enjoy the conversation because we've listened to a few of the recent episodes and see how they banter and build report with the guests will also allude to that as well. And we usually do that in the PS section and we might say um ask customer name about his 17 years experience of being a male stripper just to add a little bit of intrigue. And it's true as well for one of our customers. Absolutely. It's funny. So you're going right for right for the suggestion of the first email. You're not like warming it up with other communications, you're just going straight for it. But you're doing a lot of homework ahead of time. You're listening to actual episodes, you're actually, gosh, that's so much work to do. But it makes so much more sense that it would take time to do. This started to go back a little bit like when you find the list of episodes, so you've done your homework, you have it in excel sheet, You've given him a score. Do you like take on a group of them at a time to listen to for a while? To take notes while you're listening to him? To find those insights? Yeah we we on average we get a 75% response rate for all of the outreach that we do. Which means we don't have to send huge volumes. So and you know I used to work in marketing automation. I know I could automate a lot of this but I just know it won't work when I as you know then I I coach sales development reps as a project outside of speaking podcast. And the first thing I say to them is give first give value before asking for anything in return in the position that we're in as a guest booking agency. If that's the category that we fit into, we don't like to be put in a box, but for this purpose we will, the podcast host knows what our job is to do. And as long as we're clearly communicating the value that our customers can deliver, we feel confident that because we've done the research right? Because we've listened to several episodes at times and we've got a whole slack channel where one of our booking agents would say, hey, I can't find a relevant uh interview. So people jump in and say, well what about this one? Or what about that one? Because we all know all of our team knows our customers. Um Because we spent that time, it's not just like Hayden here's a guest, it's Haydn enjoyed your episode with Mark about X. Y. Z. Really found it interesting with when he mentioned abc um We have we're currently working with a customer who could expand on that topic. Would you do you feel your audience would also find it valuable for him to be on your show or her to be on your show? Um So we do lead with the suggestion, but like I said, we're not afraid of being proud that our job is to secure interviews for sure. Um And there's certainly been times where you you guys have brought guests to us and other people have broadcast to us. We're just, it just kind of makes sense. It almost feels like a it almost feels like a friend making a recommendation that it feels like a pitch, right? You're like, hey, like seems like so and so it would be a good fit. Are you interested? I mean we're kind of big into the call to action, like interested question mark. Um It's just casual, it's the way people actually talk. Um So 75%. A pretty good uh response rate. How many what's the rate of that you're actually getting people placed on the shows? So we we were depending on the part of the campaign that we're working with...

...our customers on average, we book for interviews booked per month for each customer, some of those working a shorter time frame, some of them a little bit longer. But we're as you can imagine from that sort of, you know that 75 responsible isn't all positive. Sometimes it's like, hey no not right now I'm fully booked or it's not quite the fit because we're gonna be focusing on this topic and that topic. Um But we're managing to secure customers relatively easily on four interviews per month. When I say easily the work has gone in to get to that point. But once we're ready to send the emails were not about the volume. And if I see that we're drafting too many emails, I'm like, no, there's a problem here. The message isn't right. Let's refocus on the message, reduce the volume and make sure that we've got the right message to the right audience to kind of circle back around. Like how many someone on your team is actually listening to the episodes of all these different podcasts. Like if you were an individual, like, let's say I wanted to go speak on your podcasts, Is it just about as much time as I can give to it? Like is there, do you try to listen to a few shows at a time? Um How do you how do you group the work on that? Yes. So that that you did ask about the grouping. So we we kind of Bachar outreach in tens. So we would send 10 emails out as part of a batch of of one campaign. And the reason why we don't do more is well that 10, we could get four yeses or we could get six yeses For the best campaign that we've done so far. We've got 100% success rate on 10 emails for a customer that we reached out to. Because we did our homework, we did our research. We made the relevant connections between The podcast host and the guest and the PSS were really personalized. Um and it just so happened that those 10 will open to taking on a guest. We just can't predict where the podcast host is in their schedule. If you're doing it yourself, I would 100% recommend spending the time doing the research and listening to a couple of episodes rather than trying to do all in a spreadsheet. An automated and Dana's alluded to. I used to work in marketing automation, setting up automation for companies. And the first thing I often say to my clients at the time would be let's not automate everything and let's not automate a process that doesn't work. Let's do this in bite sized chunks and work out which things we can automate. So just to give an idea of how we do it here, a speaking podcast is we have a team that just as research, we have a team that does the copyrighting. So we've actually started to batch process the way that we do work. So our copywriters just write the copy for the foot for the outreach. But all of our booking agents are also trained to do the copy as well. So if there's ever the volume is too high for the copywriters do booking agents can jump in and uh and and make any tweets or draft their own emails as well Man, there's so many little details um that I could dive into and I'm sure the 300 pages worth of documentation outlines all the steps and that outreach. Have you, have you published this information anywhere as far as like what your scripts look like and even what tools you use to find their email and all that kind of stuff. We've we've put together a guide. If you were an individual that you wanted to do this yourself, we've put together a step by step process for for that, which we I can share at the end of the podcast and maybe share the link with you down So you can include it in the, in the show notes as well. So yeah, so we got it. So somebody could read that, spend the time to read it, follow the instructions. There's a research template, there's an email script in there as well, so that they could use it slightly different to the one that we do because because I wrote it as if I'm reaching out myself, but one thing that we haven't covered just yet is the follow up process. So 40% of our bookings happen on the first email, The 60% of the bookings happen in the follow ups and we send around six follow ups for each, each customer. So that batch of 10 is really 60 emails that that we right. And what we send in those follow ups is additional examples of, of content, potentially a previous podcast interview that's already gone...

...live, maybe social proof. One of our customers has a an email list, which is happy to promote the podcast too. After he's appeared on a on a show, another customer of ours, she has a huge following on instagram and she's always happy to give a plug to a podcast host if if they interview her. So we use that as part of our follow up and we have like a break up email, which I'm sure you're familiar with. We don't go too cheesy with it at all, but it's effective and we get a lot of people coming back to us saying, I'm so sorry, I just might, I'm completely overwhelmed, but you're the only company that has consistently followed up in a very polite and good wayne. In fact, if you look at our website than there's more testimonials from podcast host, then there is of the customers that we've worked with because the host just loved the outreach and the approach that we take. I can see why it would be interesting to see. Do you change the email entirely with every single response? You're just changing the subject line? I know they're completely completely fresh emails every every time. So in a sequence those six emails would be completely different. We do reply to one of the initial emails that we send, but the majority of the other emails are completely different because, you know, from my experience and sells a lot of companies or a lot of sales people in the emails, they pitch their product or they talk about all of the benefits or all of the features of the tool that they're trying to sell in one email. Whereas really if you're putting four bullet points in, that's four different messages may be the first problem that you solve didn't resonate with that person who sent it to. So try the second one, try the third and not to go too off topic. There was a very successful campaign. I ran for a software company and after running some of the outreach, we found out that the messaging and the content in the third email was what got most of the replies. So we put the third email to the first email for the future out which we were doing. And we managed to get even more replies to those first emails without having to go through the effort of the follow up. And again, that's why we take that approach to matching the process because if we send 10 emails and it's just not landing and we're not getting our hitting our KPI is that we normally do, will revise and revisit and see what we can do to get better results in the future. It's amazing that you're not automating this. Like the whole cadence of these things is going out manually, even though you, I mean 10 at a time isn't too bad, But still 10 times six is 60 different emails, all of them unique, all of them customized, which is why this is, you know, is a hard process, a lot of work. And again, like I know what can be automated because I used to automate these things before, but wherever there's human error and an automation could go AWOL we kind of don't want to automate. And what often happens as you all know down from all the shows that you guys produces, you have producers and you have other people replying on behalf of the host that you've reached out to. And unless you've got a very, very tight um exclusion kind of formula in there, you're going to end up sending the follow up email are not canceling it once you've had a reply from a different email. And when I think of all the moving parts and the businesses and all the all the things that I could automate, there are other things which have less chance of going wrong that I automate the things where I need a human pair of eyes. I try not to automate we automate a lot of the reporting. So we obviously right, we send out these emails and we have all the follow ups that go out as well. So the team when we first started were put in ones and zeros in spreadsheets so that we could count how many emails we sent out. So we've automated a lot of that of that process. The other things that we also make is our own outreach for our own prospecting as well. That's all automated. But the main bulk of our booking agents time is reporting and just keeping on top of the admin. So we're looking at ways to further improve the admin. You know, we shortlist podcast, they have to go through an approval level, the the emails that are drafted, They go through an approval level. So a lot of the back end stuff we we automate. But if you're doing this as an individual, you're lucky. You don't have to worry about all this stuff. We we have to...

...worry about it when we're working with dozens and dozens of customers and campaigns at the time. What do you suggest for your customers who have landed on a show successfully? Given a good talk podcast podcast gets published? Is there any follow up recommendations you make for them to follow up with hosts? Yeah, absolutely. We we always recommend that you follow up with the host. You know, I'm so amazed that even myself when I speak on podcast, I don't get an email to say that the podcast has even gone live. So there's so much opportunity here. So follow up with the podcast host as soon as you finish the interview, say thank you. Um, and then when that interview goes live, you know, it doesn't take you much to repurpose that content, whether that's just sharing a link on social media and tagging the, the podcast hosting it, working with a company like us, which we repurpose the content as well. So that's another service that we offer. And then you're basically helping the podcast host get their name out there even more because it's a mutual benefit to do So. And then also, you know, if you've got, if you've got piers that would make a great interview guests, just suggest them to the podcast host as well. You've just spent 45 minutes, maybe even an hour and a half. If you've done a pre interview call with the host, you've got an idea of who they like to speak to them, what they're like as a person. I'm sure you can think of two or three people that you could recommend. Um, so we try and encourage that, but people are busy. Not everybody does it, but we do try and encourage that. Gosh, that makes a lot of sense. It almost makes me wonder if like this, this whole process for a better, if you're like, have a friend, have a coworker, have somebody else doing it with you so that you can always be recommending that person afterwards and you might be able to get more. I mean, maybe not a coworker because they just had you as a representative. But if you have a like minded company that you do a lot of work with, it could be an easy win win for both of you if you're both going at it at the same time. Certainly, certainly. And what else you can do? Like I said, repurpose that that interview into multiple pieces of content. And I think a lot of people just think, okay, well we'll share that on social media, but we're we say, well, no, there's so many more places you can share it. I've worked with companies before who said, Mark, we don't know what's put in the newsletter, but in the podcast interview, you've got prospects that are sitting in your pipeline that have gone cold. Send them a podcast interview where you're talking about overcoming a challenge that you know, that they have use it in your customer marketing as well. There are so many ways and so many avenues to reuse each interview. And that's why I believe it's just so powerful and going back full circle to the top. That's why it's become even more popular of in the last year or so. Oh, we're big believers and splintering out content and getting it out there all over the place. And I could probably do a whole another episode and just all the places where upon an old podcast episode could live and be useful. But is there kind of tight things up? Is there anything else a question I didn't ask? Or something else that you think would be really useful for the audience if they before they go on themselves and start walking through this process Yeah. The one step that we support our customers with, but as much as we can is that preparation for the interview I think if you if you don't prepare and you're you're not practice yeah, you're not prepared for the interview, it's not going to go as well as you think it should. So we always recommend that you have a pre interview conversation to discuss the topics with the podcast host before the interview. That gives you a bit of time to prepare your answers and also it removes any anxiety of being asked to, you know, answer some left field questions. Listen to a couple of episodes, at least two episodes before I've been caught out before Down with a quick fire round at the end and it was like what was my childhood superhero, and if I didn't do this job, what would I be doing? And it just completely threw me off because I didn't realize that those questions were coming up, although the, you know the content and the interview was fine, it was just that that at the end and it yeah, just complete three months. So hopefully you're not gonna do that to me today. Practice your intro, how you introduce yourself and how you set the scene, the topics that you want to talk about. Practice the stories and the...

...anecdotes and the results that you can you can share as you talk about the topics and then practice your call to action as well. So what are you going to say at the end of the podcast? Where are you going to direct audience listeners to? And we've actually speaking podcast, we've partnered with this amazing presentation coach and every customer that we work with gets a session with Susie that we pay for because it's in our interest for our customers to feel confident, go and deliver a great interview because they'll have a better experience and they'll want to come back for more. So yeah, if you need to, if you need a recommendation for a coach, I'd be more than happy to, to to make those recommendations to. Awesome. Yeah. Just for fun. And I'll ask you for her her website or her details. We could throw a link to her, her stuff in the show notes to. Of course, yeah. Suzy Ashfield that speak to impact. She's fantastic. Really is good. I can share the link with you after as well. Down Mark, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Where can people go to learn more about this from you? Brilliant. So, the best place to find me is speak on podcast dot com. And if you go to speak on podcast dot com forward slash B two B. There'll be a special page just to the audience listeners of this, this interview where I'll put the whole guide of how you can do this yourself as well as a couple of email templates, the reporting sheet and dan. What we're going to do just for the listeners is if you send us your website and your target market, we'll go and do a bit of research and send you to our free podcast that we think would make a great fit for you and we'll give you that for free. Thank you. That is generous, Mark. It has been a fantastic episode. Thank you so much for putting together those resources for our audience and talking about this with me today. Thanks for joining me on GDP growth, cheers down. It's been a pleasure to be an awesome thank you. Mhm Gary V says it all the time and we agree every company should think of themselves as a media company first, then whatever it is they actually do if you know this is true, but your team is already maxed out and you can't produce any more content in house. We can help, we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative BB brands in the world and we also help them turn the content from the podcast and blog posts, micro videos and slide decks that work really well on linked in. If you want to learn more, go to sweet fish Media dot com slash launch or email Logan at sweet fish media dot com.

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