B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2079 · 4 months ago

Where Thought Leaders Are Getting the Most Attention Today

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Mark Colgan about how speaking on podcast has become the new stage for thought leaders to share their message.

Mark elaborates on:

  • How to find the right podcasts
  • How to prep before you speak
  • The exact process to take to ask to be featured on a show

Yeah, welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm danSanchez with Sweet fish Media and I'm here with Mark Colgan, who is thefounder and C. R. O. Of speak on podcasts. Mark welcome to the show,cheers down. I've been looking forward to this all week. Fantastic. As youknow, if you've been listening to the show for any length of time during themonth of june, you know, we are diving deep into thought leadership marketing,breaking down what is thought leadership, how to become a thoughtleader, how to develop thought leadership content. And you might havenoticed that there is uh it's certainly a trend when it comes to thoughtleadership marketing with getting your message out there and it's speaking onpodcast, you guys all listen to podcast, you're listening to this one now andyou've certainly heard people speak on this podcast who are not part of theSweet fish Media team. We are usually interviewing lots of people, some ofwhich we have asked to be on the show like Mark today and some of which haveactually pitched us to be on the show. The funny thing is, most of the peoplethat pitch us to be on the show get turned down almost instantly. But a fewof them break through. A few of them actually do well. It's because they'vedone their homework, they've done their research, there's a way to do this well.And I've noticed there's a lot of people doing it well because as Ilisten to multiple other podcasts, I find that the people who are usuallyreally good at this are speaking on many podcasts and getting their messageout there um on a variety of shows and is highly, highly effective way ofdoing thought leadership content. So I have marked with me today to kind ofbreak down why this is a trend, how it's working and then practical stepsfor you to implement it with your own team. Because as I've seen otherpeople's process for this, I know that Mark and his team have the the bestprocess I've seen for how to get on shows probably with the mostauthenticity, with the most reliability. It's the long world, but it's in thehard road, but it's also like just the best road for doing this instead ofhiring like a PR agency just to spray and pray. So I'm specifically selfishlyhoping that you're gonna listen to this implemented even for pitching BTBgrowth because I'm tired of getting PR like spraying pray emails being like,hey can we be on your show? We're going to talk about veganism. I'm like, areyou freaking serious? We're talking about B two B marketing over here. Whatare you talking about? Their that off sometimes. So, Mark, before we diveinto the topic of even just speaking on podcast is a form of thought leadership.Marketing. I'd love to learn a little bit about how how did you even get intothe podcasting game? What's your background and how how how did youstart this, this company around speaking on podcasts? Sure cheers down.And also thank you for thank you for the compliment that's really wellreceived. Thanks. I guess I'll go back my my career history and maybe to bemarketer sales and marketing. I start off in recruitment doing a lot of coldcalling cold emails and then went into marketing and I worked in sales thatkind of combination that led me to run a business last two years ago calledTask Drive. And as their chief revenue officer and general manager, I had abit of free time and I started to pitch myself as a guest on other cellsrelated podcast And I saw that I was getting some pretty good results withthose around 70% yeses on the pictures that I sent out. And then I thought,well, maybe it's just because of my profile, I don't know, let me test itwith a couple of the other co founders. So I took their profile, created alittle bit of a media kit for them and started to pitch out different topicsto different audiences, um, and managed to land them on the podcast as well.And what I realized is that mixture of recruitment and matchmaking fromcandidates to roles and all my experience of outbound cells justreally, really nicely molded together to create what what now is today calledspeak on podcasts. So, uh, in three months I managed to secure around 35 to40 interviews for myself and the two other co founders at the time. And itjust got to the point where I thought I'm even really good at this, or I'vejust got a very good process that I think other people would benefit from.I met my co founder back in May, so...

...almost we're almost a year old. Uh andsince then we've been working together and speak on podcasts and we're growingthe team to almost 20 people as of today. Fantastic man. I love that itcame out of a need that you had and then that you built upon it and thatit's actually process driven um rather than personality driven rather thanbuilding even a social clout that it's a tried and true process. And afterI've heard your process on a webinar, we we kind of co lead together withsweet fish media kind of discovered why this works so well, but before we breakdown your your secret sauce and just give it away for the audience. Why isspeaking on podcast become such a popular strategy, especially forthought leadership in particular? Yeah, I think we can talk about this withoutmentioning the elephant in the room of Covid and you know, a lot of peoplewere leveraging conferences and offline events to uh to go to conferences andspeak and develop their thought leadership and get that message outthere. Um and you know, as you know, they were all cancelled. So withoffline events canceled podcasting certainly saw an uptick and I know thatyou guys over a sweet fish, I have had a very busy 2020 because of this aswell. So that's the first reason I think that more and more people areturning to podcasting to to share their thought leadership message because it'sone of the best channels that they can, and it's accessible for anybody in theworld as long as they've got a good wifi connection or internet connection.But more so than that, even in the world that we live in today, Peoplestill buy from people that they know like and trust and that's been said foryears, but it's still so true. Even in 2021, um, speaking on podcasts, itallows you to really speed up the process of building that brand trust asyou, you're able to leverage an audience that the podcast host isalready built. And it, for me, it acts as a third party endorsement. And it'svery much like having reviews and testimonials on your own website, whichyour marketer has just gone in and type those in, versus having reviews on capterra or G to crowd or for the service based businesses. There's clutch andlots of other kind of websites which serve up these third party reviews andI think that's just become more and more powerful because Only 8% of buyersactually trust the promises that businesses make them. That's from aForrester report in 2019. But by speaking on a podcast, it really helpsyou start to win the trust and build credibility amongst your potentialcustomers and you do that by leading with facts with stories, you know, allthe struggles that you've had, the challenges that you faced. Um, itcreates a very intimate touch point with you and your potential customer.So that's just a couple of the reasons why I think podcasting has been used asa channel to increase that thought leadership. Can I throw in a few more?I think one thing that I've noticed is that, I mean selfishly this is why welove podcasting so much. It's just easier, right? Like if you want tosubmit an article to Forbes or the entrepreneur or to techcrunch, likeit's just gonna be, it's just gonna take longer because it's harder towrite a really good article and you're gonna go through their vetting processand it has to be like, like bulletproof has to be a great, but showing up onpodcast, it's just easier. Yes, you have to craft like your generalmessages, but usually you've already had those ahead of time, right? And ittook like you probably spent a little bit of time preparing for the show, butprobably a lot less than it would have taken you to write an article forForbes, right? So it's just an easier way. And honestly, like even writingfor a bigger publication, people will read your content, but they're hardlyever going to glance at the byline. But here, like we've said your namemultiple times, your voice, you're actually speaking, we know your uniqueperson. And if people are like, man that was really good, they're probablygonna look you up afterwards. Unlike if your contribution to whatever magazine,like they may or may not click your byline and look at where you come fromunless you strategically haven't done of back links in that article orsomething. I just feel like there's even even more so than traditional prand getting mentioned in media...

...podcasting is going to be able toconnect just a little bit stronger. Probably not as much as speaking onstage, but it's also a lot easier to get on the podcast and it has to get onstage definitely. And I think to 100% agree with you as well and you know,people are listening to podcasts when they're running, when they're washingthe dishes when they're walking their dogs, so people are consuming thecontent and you know, for thousands of years, stories have been how we'vecommunicated as human beings and it's just another format of storytelling andit's powerful because you read a Forbes article and even as a marketer as apotential customer reading this article, I know that maybe it's not the voice ofthe actual person who has written the article, it's gone through an editingprocess. You could ask me anything here dan and I could answer with anythingthat I want to and I often find by speaking on podcast, I get ideas fornew content all the time because I get asked a question that I've never beenasked before. I was on a podcast just the other week and somebody asked whydo we add in delightful moments for customers? And I was like, it justfeels right, that's that's why we do it. And that then kind of got the gears inmy brain spinning about me thinking about that and actually formulatingmore of a process around delighting our customers and what that means to us asa business. Um so it's also a way to create brand new content completely offthe cuff. Absolutely. I probably my favorite thing is jumpinginto these conversations, even interacting with you hearing your ideasprocessing and then spinning it back, going back and forth. The amount ofinsight that I get from learning even as just the host is great for me. Buteven being a guest on other people, other people shows I've been on a fewuh when people ask me questions, it just gets me thinking and even I'm likeexplaining things that I'm learning. I'm learning by their own words comingout of my mouth sometimes, right? Um sometimes you're like, oh, the reasonwhy we do that is like I've never, you explain it and then you're like, I'venever even externalized that before, thank you for asking. You just pulledsomething out of me. It's almost sometimes it's like having theseinterviews come at you. It's like almost having like a coach, it likesolidifies your own thinking sometimes that's just kind of a plus right tokind of move on. What are we actually influencing here? Like this is oftenlike it's happening enough that sometimes I feel like it would almostwould like just not work as well anymore because people are so used tohearing interview based podcast, people are so used to even hearing some personon like everybody show like Matthew McConaughey right over the last coupleof months has been everywhere. I don't, he's just been blitzing all the podcastand he's been everywhere. Hence he's like even thinking about running forgovernor potentially here because he's been on so many podcasts and raked upso much influence what's actually going on. How does that create influence?Yeah, I think that to take a step back, we've got to remember that as marketersand salespeople, we design a funnel or a sales process for individuals to gothrough, but it's just one process or one funnel that we want all of thesedifferent people to come into and, and and navigate through and really whenyou think about it and the reason why speaking on multiple podcasts makessense is that there's different buyers from different places all over theworld, listening to different things, and also at different levels of thebuyer's journey. A lot of people listen to podcasts to learn or to overcome achallenge that are actually experiencing at the moment. Like I, Iget asked what's my favorite marketing book? And I was like, well, I haven'treally learned anything new about marketing in books recently, becausebooks that were published a year ago weren't talking about Tiktok forexample, but I'll go to podcasts to listen to interviews with people whoare doing well on Tiktok. So this goes really back to the buyer's journey andthe buyer's journey actually starts a really long time before they reach outto a sales person. I think it's around 80% is the latest stat. And when Ithink about the last two software purchases I made from thinkingspecifically for the B two B um it was through word of mouth, office vibe is ateam manager, team uh, engagement platform so I can get feedback from myteam. I asked what are people using and...

...somebody told me office fire, it's gota really nice sign up process, check it out. The other piece of software was a,it's called Home Run, it's an applicant tracking system. Um, somebody referredit to me because they heard the founder on a podcast speak about it. So they'dnever actually used the software, but they'd heard the founder, I went andlisten to that podcast and I was like, okay, I like where this Ceo is comingfrom, I like the direction he, his vision of the business. So I signed upwith Home Run, you know, the pricing was right and everything like that aswell. There are other things that contributed to it, but those twopurchases were both word of mouth and and referral and the more podcasts youspeak on, the more chance you have of increasing the likelihood of that wordof mouth. And as I mentioned, when people are actually, they're searchingfor a solution to the problem that they're facing and maybe your productor service can help them overcome that challenge. Can you really afford not toshow up when people are searching? It's funny, I consider podcasting to be likea middle of the funnel type of activity only because the discover abilityaround finding new podcast is not that great, which is why I usually need like,you know, usually combined podcasting with like some kind of short formchannel like linkedin, twitter, facebook, something like that. Andwhile people are like hunting and searching on a Ceo and blogs and onsocial media, find on podcasting, they're usually they're usuallylearning, they're usually going a little bit deeper. Um So when they'rehearing your voice either as a, as a host or your guests voice, they'reactually like listening. They're not just scanning like in a blog post andpicking up bits and pieces are actually probably listening to the whole thing.They probably scan to list the titles that were Interesting and picked out.One that was the most intriguing to them probably because it's the biggestproblem they have or the thing that they have been thinking about lately,maybe an opportunity they've been considering. And so when you come on asthe expert guest and they've been listening to you for a solid, 40, 50min. like the chances of them look at least looking you up are probablypretty high because they just spent, I mean the amount of time you just hadwith them on a more intimate channel is up. So it's almost like you're, you'reskipping the top of the funnel and just going straight to the middle of thefunnel because the amount, it's not like just reading a tweet, that wouldbe very top of the top of the funnel activity, podcasting. You'reessentially inserting yourself into the middle of the funnel where they can do.And I guess it's top of the funnel, you for you, They're still discovering you.But that's like, it's a heavy hit for top of the funnel for you, right?Because it's somebody else's potential funnel. I'm just kind of thinking, Ifigured that's probably what's happening. Yeah. We've worked withcustomers before who said that they didn't want to go and speak on apodcast that their competitors were really speaking on. And I was like, no,that's the best podcast to go on because you do a better interview anddeliver more value than your competitor did. Then people are going to have more,they may have more of an affinity to working with you. If you share somereal raw insights and some knowledge that perhaps the competitive didn'tshare, then you just walk up to them. Um, and the likelihood is that theysubscribe to that podcast, so they're going to listen to future episodes thatcome out as well. So it's the perfect one to go forward. So we managed totalk them around on on that particular scenario. That's interesting. If you'respeaking on podcasts, your competitors are onto usually try to one up them bygiving a totally different viewpoint or advantage point from them. Or do youjust try to, I imagine you're not just gonna do what they do and blogging andjust add more content. No. How do you you probably want to do that? Yeah. Youprobably want to have a slightly different angle. You can agree withthem, you can disagree with them. There's no right or wrong answer butjust be prepared that if you're gonna disagree you do it tastefully andrespectfully and you've got the facts to back it up. So yeah. So I I dobelieve to come across come come across it with a slightly different angle ortopic would be a better strategy then just if they said five tips you do yougive 10 tips because you're right, it's not blog post that we're dealing withhere. All right. What is your step by step process for doing this? This iskind of the meat of the episode that I think is the most exciting. I rememberhearing it for the first time and they...

...can like, oh that's doable. It's hard,it's work but it's it's definitely doable. So can you break down your stepby step process for finding shows uh and reaching out, getting on there,making sure you get the most out of the episodes that you do get. Sure. sure.So what you're asking, I spent the first few months when we set up thebusiness, writing documents and processes. So this next few minutes isgoing to be a combination of around 300 pages of documentation and what I'll dois I'll try and give the shortcut version of it, which somebody who'slistening today could could apply and put into practice straight away. So Umwhen you get to publish the book, 300 pages. Yeah, that's true, that's true.We we should do that, we should do its thing. So the first step ready to startwith is really focusing on your message. You know, what stories do you want totell, what angles are you going to talk about? And there's typically three waysthat we encourage people to think about this and that's the solutions to commonproblems that your ideal customers have um insights that you have, especiallyif you're a software company, you've probably got a lot of data and insightsof how people are using the product, the tools um and everything like that.And then also controversial opinions, one for me dan that I know you and Iagree with is that you shouldn't really get content um that the majority ofcontent should be undated and that's still quite a controversial opinion inin certain marketing circles. So having topics that are of interest and andwould pique the interest of a podcast host is definitely the good place tostart. So, you've got your message, your, your stories, and I definitelythink about your customer stories and anecdotes that you could use to helpback up your your messaging as well. I'll cover that slightly later than andthen really, you need to ask yourself, it's time to do the research. So, whodo I want to be speaking to? If I was on stage at a conference, I just paidAn extortionate amount of money to get 15 minutes speakers who do I want tosee in front of me before? Who do I want to see in front of me? So who arethe customers that I want to be listening to my message and the waythat we go about thinking about this for our customers were all aboutrelevancy. We do not care about the numbers, it's about we we most wemostly focus on. Is this going to be a relevant podcast? And will there be alarge percentage of our idol of our customers, ideal prospects listening tothe show? So we ask the question what podcasts are your customers listeningto? And if you've got customers ask them, you could also think about whatpodcasts are your competitors speaking on because if they if they're speakingon a podcast, you may take the hypotheses that they've done their duediligence and there's probably going to be a likelihood of of your targetaudience on there as well. And then also, this is one of my favorite onesdown and it's around who are the influencers in your market or thesoftware vendors with huge amounts of funding? Where are they speaking?Because if they're speaking and you served the same audience, then go andfind the podcast that they're being, they're being interviewed on as wellbecause again, there's more of a chance of that audience being your idealcustomer profile. So we've we've covered the starting points of thinkingabout your messaging and your topics and then doing your research. Listennotes is a great database, which has pretty much 2.4 million podcasts,although I don't believe all 2.4 million active, but it's a greatdatabase and a place to start. If you're starting to look at the podcastthat you want to speak on before I move on down. Any questions on these firsttwo steps, Hey everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you're a regularlistener of GDP growth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show,but you may not know that. I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish.So for those of you in sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to sharesomething that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has beenusing lead I. Q. For the past few months. And what used to take us fourhours gathering contact data now takes us only one where 75% more efficientwere able to move faster with outbound...

...prospecting and organizing ourcampaigns is so much easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check outlead I. Q. As well. You can check them out at least I. Q dot com. That's L E AD I Q dot com. All right, let's get back to the show. No, actually I thinkit's remarkably clear. I think I like I have in my head exactly what I would doin order to get this done. I think the, probably the best step is just talkingdirectly to customers and being like, by the way, who, who are you listeningto? I mean, I could go to my linkedin page, you just ask them and I'llprobably get a lot of answers. But specifically going to customers isprobably going to be the better one. That's probably the first place to go.That's going to get you more like the people who are actually buying for me,rather than your social audience. Absolute. So once you've got yourresearch, and of course, this is, this is going to going to take time. You'regonna need to find the email address of the linkedin, sorry, linked in profile,the email address of the podcast host. You want to make sure if that there'slots of podcasts out there down as you know, but not all of them are active orthey haven't released a new episode in the last 30 days. So we kind of don'tcount those podcasts when we're working with our customers campaigns. Wethey're not qualified for us. We also look at the social media presence ofeach podcast host and the podcast itself as well as the amount of reviews,how frequently they produce new episodes as well. And this kind ofallows us to give a little bit of a scoring because we give each of thoseparameters are waiting to give us a total school and that's how we kind offilter and sort all of our podcast that we reach out to to our customers. Uh,so once you've done done that and there is a lot of heavy lifting that needs tohappen there. The next thing you need to do is is suggest yourself as a guestand you'll notice that I haven't used the word pitch, we've banned that wordpitch internally and when I see it in slack, I'm like, no, it's not pitch,it's an introduction because what we're really focused on is thinking of theaudience, the host, the majority of hosts really do care about theiraudience, that they spent the time building and the guests that they bringonto their show. Um and so ultimately the host cares about the value that youcan bring to their audience, so make sure that you're looking for those keysimilarities between previous guests and topics and the ones that you cantalk about as well and in your email. So we start most of our outreach viaemail. We like to highlight a few, either a recent guests or a few topicsthat they spoke about, but for example then I'm not gonna say, hey dan, Ireally enjoyed your interview with Mark about podcasting. We listen to podcastepisodes. We were listening out for those nuggets of information thatconnects our customers to the podcast host. One of our customers is a hugeSkydiving Fanny's done over 70 solo jumps, so if we hear that in thepodcast from the host who's saying or maybe they previously had a guest on,we include that in our messaging. Writing PSS is probably the favoritething that I like to get the team doing. Um there was one I wrote today actuallybecause I still write a lot of these emails as well done One of them todayis the host does craft McGarr. Uh and I used to do crack McGarr until I got toribs cracked from a, from a roundhouse kick I wasn't expecting. So I put thatin there because we're personalizing the experience that we are giving thepodcast hosts. But yeah, highlight a few guests or topics and then make thatconnection between those topics to what you can talk about. Maybe you can addto, maybe you can disagree with, but really highlight why uh this would bevaluable to the audience. And what we like to focus on as well is when we'reworking with our customers, we want to make sure that they're not coming andgoing on podcast just to pitch their product. They're actually going onpodcast. Talk about solutions to challenges. So we always like to thinkabout what actionable tips can you share with a podcast audience thatsomebody could listen to and implement straight away. And we do a very goodjob of highlighting that in our outreach And and mentioning that ourcustomer is more than happy to share.

You know, the insights that he'sexperienced over 20 years of building HR functions in fast-growing startups.You know, that's a lot that that person can unpack and deliver. And then lastly,the call to action the sea to is we use a very soft call to action we neverlike to assume and again we're not pitching here. So we asked the question,would you be interested? And that could be done. Would your audience beinterested in learning from dan on your podcast? Or would your audience beinterested in learning about X. Y. Z. Topic on your on on the podcast or viaan interview? And we also like to see like a lot of, we've met a lot of ourcustomers and we know that they're good people and they're fun people as well.So if we feel that the host will enjoy the conversation because we've listenedto a few of the recent episodes and see how they banter and build report withthe guests will also allude to that as well. And we usually do that in the PSsection and we might say um ask customer name about his 17 yearsexperience of being a male stripper just to add a little bit of intrigue.And it's true as well for one of our customers. Absolutely. It's funny. Soyou're going right for right for the suggestion of the first email. You'renot like warming it up with other communications, you're just goingstraight for it. But you're doing a lot of homework ahead of time. You'relistening to actual episodes, you're actually, gosh, that's so much work todo. But it makes so much more sense that it would take time to do. Thisstarted to go back a little bit like when you find the list of episodes, soyou've done your homework, you have it in excel sheet, You've given him ascore. Do you like take on a group of them at a time to listen to for a while?To take notes while you're listening to him? To find those insights? Yeah we weon average we get a 75% response rate for all of the outreach that we do.Which means we don't have to send huge volumes. So and you know I used to workin marketing automation. I know I could automate a lot of this but I just knowit won't work when I as you know then I I coach sales development reps as aproject outside of speaking podcast. And the first thing I say to them isgive first give value before asking for anything in return in the position thatwe're in as a guest booking agency. If that's the category that we fit into,we don't like to be put in a box, but for this purpose we will, the podcasthost knows what our job is to do. And as long as we're clearly communicatingthe value that our customers can deliver, we feel confident that becausewe've done the research right? Because we've listened to several episodes attimes and we've got a whole slack channel where one of our booking agentswould say, hey, I can't find a relevant uh interview. So people jump in and say,well what about this one? Or what about that one? Because we all know all ofour team knows our customers. Um Because we spent that time, it's notjust like Hayden here's a guest, it's Haydn enjoyed your episode with Markabout X. Y. Z. Really found it interesting with when he mentioned abcum We have we're currently working with a customer who could expand on thattopic. Would you do you feel your audience would also find it valuablefor him to be on your show or her to be on your show? Um So we do lead with thesuggestion, but like I said, we're not afraid of being proud that our job isto secure interviews for sure. Um And there's certainly been times where youyou guys have brought guests to us and other people have broadcast to us.We're just, it just kind of makes sense. It almost feels like a it almost feelslike a friend making a recommendation that it feels like a pitch, right?You're like, hey, like seems like so and so it would be a good fit. Are youinterested? I mean we're kind of big into the call to action, likeinterested question mark. Um It's just casual, it's the way people actuallytalk. Um So 75%. A pretty good uh response rate. How many what's the rateof that you're actually getting people placed on the shows? So we we were depending on the part ofthe campaign that we're working with...

...our customers on average, we book forinterviews booked per month for each customer, some of those working ashorter time frame, some of them a little bit longer. But we're as you canimagine from that sort of, you know that 75 responsible isn't all positive.Sometimes it's like, hey no not right now I'm fully booked or it's not quitethe fit because we're gonna be focusing on this topic and that topic. Um Butwe're managing to secure customers relatively easily on four interviewsper month. When I say easily the work has gone in to get to that point. Butonce we're ready to send the emails were not about the volume. And if I seethat we're drafting too many emails, I'm like, no, there's a problem here.The message isn't right. Let's refocus on the message, reduce the volume andmake sure that we've got the right message to the right audience to kind of circle back around. Like howmany someone on your team is actually listening to the episodes of all thesedifferent podcasts. Like if you were an individual, like, let's say I wanted togo speak on your podcasts, Is it just about as much time as I can give to it?Like is there, do you try to listen to a few shows at a time? Um How do youhow do you group the work on that? Yes. So that that you did ask about thegrouping. So we we kind of Bachar outreach in tens. So we would send 10emails out as part of a batch of of one campaign. And the reason why we don'tdo more is well that 10, we could get four yeses or we could get six yesesFor the best campaign that we've done so far. We've got 100% success rate on10 emails for a customer that we reached out to. Because we did ourhomework, we did our research. We made the relevant connections between Thepodcast host and the guest and the PSS were really personalized. Um and itjust so happened that those 10 will open to taking on a guest. We justcan't predict where the podcast host is in their schedule. If you're doing ityourself, I would 100% recommend spending the time doing the researchand listening to a couple of episodes rather than trying to do all in aspreadsheet. An automated and Dana's alluded to. I used to work in marketingautomation, setting up automation for companies. And the first thing I oftensay to my clients at the time would be let's not automate everything and let'snot automate a process that doesn't work. Let's do this in bite sizedchunks and work out which things we can automate. So just to give an idea ofhow we do it here, a speaking podcast is we have a team that just as research,we have a team that does the copyrighting. So we've actually startedto batch process the way that we do work. So our copywriters just write thecopy for the foot for the outreach. But all of our booking agents are alsotrained to do the copy as well. So if there's ever the volume is too high forthe copywriters do booking agents can jump in and uh and and make any tweetsor draft their own emails as well Man, there's so many little details umthat I could dive into and I'm sure the 300 pages worth of documentationoutlines all the steps and that outreach. Have you, have you publishedthis information anywhere as far as like what your scripts look like andeven what tools you use to find their email and all that kind of stuff. We'vewe've put together a guide. If you were an individual that you wanted to dothis yourself, we've put together a step by step process for for that,which we I can share at the end of the podcast and maybe share the link withyou down So you can include it in the, in the show notes as well. So yeah, sowe got it. So somebody could read that, spend the time to read it, follow theinstructions. There's a research template, there's an email script inthere as well, so that they could use it slightly different to the one thatwe do because because I wrote it as if I'm reaching out myself, but one thingthat we haven't covered just yet is the follow up process. So 40% of ourbookings happen on the first email, The 60% of the bookings happen in thefollow ups and we send around six follow ups for each, each customer. Sothat batch of 10 is really 60 emails that that we right. And what we send inthose follow ups is additional examples of, of content, potentially a previouspodcast interview that's already gone...

...live, maybe social proof. One of ourcustomers has a an email list, which is happy to promote the podcast too. Afterhe's appeared on a on a show, another customer of ours, she has a hugefollowing on instagram and she's always happy to give a plug to a podcast hostif if they interview her. So we use that as part of our follow up and wehave like a break up email, which I'm sure you're familiar with. We don't gotoo cheesy with it at all, but it's effective and we get a lot of peoplecoming back to us saying, I'm so sorry, I just might, I'm completelyoverwhelmed, but you're the only company that has consistently followedup in a very polite and good wayne. In fact, if you look at our website thanthere's more testimonials from podcast host, then there is of the customersthat we've worked with because the host just loved the outreach and theapproach that we take. I can see why it would be interesting to see. Do youchange the email entirely with every single response? You're just changingthe subject line? I know they're completely completely fresh emailsevery every time. So in a sequence those six emails would be completelydifferent. We do reply to one of the initial emails that we send, but themajority of the other emails are completely different because, you know,from my experience and sells a lot of companies or a lot of sales people inthe emails, they pitch their product or they talk about all of the benefits orall of the features of the tool that they're trying to sell in one email.Whereas really if you're putting four bullet points in, that's four differentmessages may be the first problem that you solve didn't resonate with thatperson who sent it to. So try the second one, try the third and not to gotoo off topic. There was a very successful campaign. I ran for asoftware company and after running some of the outreach, we found out that themessaging and the content in the third email was what got most of the replies.So we put the third email to the first email for the future out which we weredoing. And we managed to get even more replies to those first emails withouthaving to go through the effort of the follow up. And again, that's why wetake that approach to matching the process because if we send 10 emailsand it's just not landing and we're not getting our hitting our KPI is that wenormally do, will revise and revisit and see what we can do to get betterresults in the future. It's amazing that you're not automating this. Likethe whole cadence of these things is going out manually, even though you, Imean 10 at a time isn't too bad, But still 10 times six is 60 differentemails, all of them unique, all of them customized, which is why this is, youknow, is a hard process, a lot of work. And again, like I know what can beautomated because I used to automate these things before, but whereverthere's human error and an automation could go AWOL we kind of don't want toautomate. And what often happens as you all know down from all the shows thatyou guys produces, you have producers and you have other people replying onbehalf of the host that you've reached out to. And unless you've got a very,very tight um exclusion kind of formula in there, you're going to end upsending the follow up email are not canceling it once you've had a replyfrom a different email. And when I think of all the moving parts and thebusinesses and all the all the things that I could automate, there are otherthings which have less chance of going wrong that I automate the things whereI need a human pair of eyes. I try not to automate we automate a lot of the reporting. Sowe obviously right, we send out these emails and we have all the follow upsthat go out as well. So the team when we first started were put in ones andzeros in spreadsheets so that we could count how many emails we sent out. Sowe've automated a lot of that of that process. The other things that we alsomake is our own outreach for our own prospecting as well. That's allautomated. But the main bulk of our booking agents time is reporting andjust keeping on top of the admin. So we're looking at ways to furtherimprove the admin. You know, we shortlist podcast, they have to gothrough an approval level, the the emails that are drafted, They gothrough an approval level. So a lot of the back end stuff we we automate. Butif you're doing this as an individual, you're lucky. You don't have to worryabout all this stuff. We we have to...

...worry about it when we're working withdozens and dozens of customers and campaigns at the time. What do yousuggest for your customers who have landed on a show successfully? Given agood talk podcast podcast gets published? Is there any follow uprecommendations you make for them to follow up with hosts? Yeah, absolutely. We we alwaysrecommend that you follow up with the host. You know, I'm so amazed that evenmyself when I speak on podcast, I don't get an email to say that the podcasthas even gone live. So there's so much opportunity here. So follow up with thepodcast host as soon as you finish the interview, say thank you. Um, and thenwhen that interview goes live, you know, it doesn't take you much to repurposethat content, whether that's just sharing a link on social media andtagging the, the podcast hosting it, working with a company like us, whichwe repurpose the content as well. So that's another service that we offer.And then you're basically helping the podcast host get their name out thereeven more because it's a mutual benefit to do So. And then also, you know, ifyou've got, if you've got piers that would make a great interview guests,just suggest them to the podcast host as well. You've just spent 45 minutes,maybe even an hour and a half. If you've done a pre interview call withthe host, you've got an idea of who they like to speak to them, whatthey're like as a person. I'm sure you can think of two or three people thatyou could recommend. Um, so we try and encourage that, but people are busy.Not everybody does it, but we do try and encourage that. Gosh, that makes alot of sense. It almost makes me wonder if like this, this whole process for abetter, if you're like, have a friend, have a coworker, have somebody elsedoing it with you so that you can always be recommending that personafterwards and you might be able to get more. I mean, maybe not a coworkerbecause they just had you as a representative. But if you have a likeminded company that you do a lot of work with, it could be an easy win winfor both of you if you're both going at it at the same time. Certainly,certainly. And what else you can do? Like I said, repurpose that thatinterview into multiple pieces of content. And I think a lot of peoplejust think, okay, well we'll share that on social media, but we're we say, well,no, there's so many more places you can share it. I've worked with companiesbefore who said, Mark, we don't know what's put in the newsletter, but inthe podcast interview, you've got prospects that are sitting in yourpipeline that have gone cold. Send them a podcast interview where you'retalking about overcoming a challenge that you know, that they have use it inyour customer marketing as well. There are so many ways and so many avenues toreuse each interview. And that's why I believe it's just so powerful and goingback full circle to the top. That's why it's become even more popular of in thelast year or so. Oh, we're big believers and splintering out contentand getting it out there all over the place. And I could probably do a wholeanother episode and just all the places where upon an old podcast episode couldlive and be useful. But is there kind of tight things up? Is there anythingelse a question I didn't ask? Or something else that you think would bereally useful for the audience if they before they go on themselves and startwalking through this process Yeah. The one step that we support our customerswith, but as much as we can is that preparation for the interview I thinkif you if you don't prepare and you're you're not practice yeah, you're notprepared for the interview, it's not going to go as well as you think itshould. So we always recommend that you have a pre interview conversation todiscuss the topics with the podcast host before the interview. That givesyou a bit of time to prepare your answers and also it removes any anxietyof being asked to, you know, answer some left field questions. Listen to acouple of episodes, at least two episodes before I've been caught outbefore Down with a quick fire round at the end and it was like what was mychildhood superhero, and if I didn't do this job, what would I be doing? And itjust completely threw me off because I didn't realize that those questionswere coming up, although the, you know the content and the interview was fine,it was just that that at the end and it yeah, just complete three months. Sohopefully you're not gonna do that to me today. Practice your intro, how youintroduce yourself and how you set the scene, the topics that you want to talkabout. Practice the stories and the...

...anecdotes and the results that you canyou can share as you talk about the topics and then practice your call toaction as well. So what are you going to say at the end of the podcast? Whereare you going to direct audience listeners to? And we've actuallyspeaking podcast, we've partnered with this amazing presentation coach andevery customer that we work with gets a session with Susie that we pay forbecause it's in our interest for our customers to feel confident, go anddeliver a great interview because they'll have a better experience andthey'll want to come back for more. So yeah, if you need to, if you need arecommendation for a coach, I'd be more than happy to, to to make thoserecommendations to. Awesome. Yeah. Just for fun. And I'll ask you for her herwebsite or her details. We could throw a link to her, her stuff in the shownotes to. Of course, yeah. Suzy Ashfield that speak to impact. She'sfantastic. Really is good. I can share the link with you after as well. DownMark, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Where can people goto learn more about this from you? Brilliant. So, the best place to findme is speak on podcast dot com. And if you go to speak on podcast dot comforward slash B two B. There'll be a special page just to the audiencelisteners of this, this interview where I'll put the whole guide of how you cando this yourself as well as a couple of email templates, the reporting sheetand dan. What we're going to do just for the listeners is if you send usyour website and your target market, we'll go and do a bit of research andsend you to our free podcast that we think would make a great fit for youand we'll give you that for free. Thank you. That is generous, Mark. It hasbeen a fantastic episode. Thank you so much for putting together thoseresources for our audience and talking about this with me today. Thanks forjoining me on GDP growth, cheers down. It's been a pleasure to be an awesomethank you. Mhm Gary V says it all the time and weagree every company should think of themselves as a media company first,then whatever it is they actually do if you know this is true, but your team isalready maxed out and you can't produce any more content in house. We can help,we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative BB brands in the worldand we also help them turn the content from the podcast and blog posts, microvideos and slide decks that work really well on linked in. If you want to learnmore, go to sweet fish Media dot com slash launch or email Logan at sweetfish media dot com.

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