The Role of Website Personalization in ABM

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Guy Yalif about the role of website personalization in ABM. 

...welcome back to be to be a growth. I'm Dan Sanchez with sweet fish Media and I'm continuing the journey and a B M and I'm three weeks in So a b m starting to become a real reality to me to sinking, and I've read multiple books on the topic. I still have many to go and about a week's worth of interview. Still to do before this journey comes to a conclusion when, while I've learned a lot, I've still found I have unanswered questions. I have places in the A B M space that I have not on deep into yet. And so today I'm joined by a guy yell If who is the CEO of Intel? Um, eyes and we're gonna be talking about website personalization. This is kind of a category that I found out is in a B M, though I haven't covered in any of the episode yet, so I was excited to talk to guy about his company. What it does is well, is just the category of what we do with personalizing a website, which I think is any any digital marketing plan, any kind of marketing plan. And in 20 twenties, right is like the main hub of all marketing that we do. We're all trying to get traffic back to our website where we have more control over the experience. So it makes sense that we want to talk about a B M as it relates to your own website. So, guy, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. How you doing? I'm doing great. Dan. Honored to be here. I've been listening to the podcast throughout the month. Very excited to have this conversation. Fantastic. Ready? Dive in. So to get started, I want to talk about broadly. What is website personalization in case the audience doesn't know. And why is it important? Website personalization is giving different visitors different experiences as consumers. We've all been trained by Yahoo, Amazon, Netflix and a bunch of others to expect our digital experience. Our journey with the companies with whom we're interacting to be tailored to us website personalization is an approach where you can meet in a B two b context each of your prospects where they are in their funnel with you to recognize that a first time visitor is really...

...different than somebody has already asked for a demo is really different than somebody who's already existing customer. The goal of it is more revenue more leads to sales form or customers. Ultimately, it's about driving more money. And it's one of many techniques to go do that that, like the broader umbrella of A B. M or the broader umbrella of conversion rate optimization. Now I've seen website personalization out there for a while. I'd probably say the first experience I had with it was probably five years ago, and I had seen it. And what had happened is there, like, Well, which one? Which bucket do you fit in? We wanted Taylor, and it was literally like we wanted Taylor the website to you, and I was like, Okay, I'm like, I don't really fit in any of these buckets. But I'm curious to see how this works. Click. And then, of course, the home page changed and customized the website. I was the first time I realized that it was happening, though I'm sure it was happening long before that and generally you probably don't know. But a lot of websites are probably being customized. Do you? Right now as you're browsing around the Web or when you get back on the Web sometime today, the web, some websites probably been customized. Guy. What percentage of websites do you feel like? You're just being customized all the time now and people just aren't even aware of it. It's a great question. The last time I looked at data from either built with their data and eyes to the sources, we tend to look at the top 10,000 websites. It was something like a 3rd 30 to 40%. Top 100,000 was about half that. It seems like Look, we, as marketers have been a marketer for the last decade, spent $120 billion every year just in the US driving people, the websites. But we failed to turn them into customers 98% of the time. Like in what world is that? Okay. And so we see this as something that we all increasingly expect us consumers and in our business lives. It has a great positive impact, I was gonna say for a lot of websites, 2% would even be pretty dang good, right? I've heard anywhere from like if you're if you're in between the 2 to 5% conversion rate on your website, depending on what industry of course that you're in like...

...you're usually doing pretty good like even talk, Thio asked Chris Walker and lengthen recently. He's like we got to get beyond the 0.5% conversion rates. I'm like So what is good? He's like, Oh, you know, between two and 5%. I'm like, Okay, it's not like 10 or 15% though its's would be highly uncommon to see that on, I think, if you're not sure what website personalization as I love if you go toe intel, um eyes dot com they have this one button that I found was wonderful because it illustrates what they do and what it is. It's like a yellow button that kind of hovers over the website. If you click it, it says, see what is optimized here. You click the button and all of sudden it throws like these blue dotted boxes around every section of their website that has been customized for me, the website visitor. So it's very exciting to see all the things that you can customize, of course, is a marketer. I'm like Well, it's probably a lot of frickin work because now I have to figure out, Oh, what would I serve to everybody? And how would I think about it differently? But that will have to wait for that part of the conversation a little later in the interview. For now, I want to talk about, Like, what? How is this related to a B M like, How is this serve somebody who's walking through an A B M campaign to tailor their website to their audience? We think they are directly related. So a B M is saying, as you've covered previously on the podcast, sales and marketing are going to be coordinated. So the marketings focused their spears that they're sending outbound on the exact accounts and individuals that those accounts that matter to sales. Great. Let's say you hook one of them and managed to get them to your website. You want to speak to them differently than you would speak to others. We encourage all the folks with whom we work to treat every page, in particular their home page, like a landing page, or you think about all the landing pages we've all created over the years for our ads. What if your home page where that personalized? What if every page was 1 to 2? Then go meet them where they are in their journey with you, to recognize that you're speaking to different roles at different sized companies that air in different places...

...in their journey, and that you can create a mawr bespoke, more relevant experience that will move them through the funnel more quickly. So Website personalization helps bring a whole bunch of that toe life, often to your earlier point about content reusing content you already have. You've already created the personas you've already created. The case studies. If you can show that visitor the one that's relevant to them, they're more likely to engage with you more. Makes a lot of sense, but my question is like, Let's say I've been interacting with people on Lincoln. I share a link to my maybe a block post, a case study at published recently, and they're visiting to it from Lincoln. How does it know that they're in my target account? Because there's probably a lot of traffic coming from LinkedIn, but some of them are outside my I C p. Some of them aren't my target accounts, but could be, you know, and some are specifically the exact people I want to build a relationship with. How does it know? Great question. We typically seen a three ways this will happen. Uh, one. Often you've already put you tm parameters or other euro parameters in the link for your own analytics. You can use those to better personalize the experience. We automatically parse all of them. Andi, use that in machine, learning to find correlations. Or you can set up rules, right? If if they're in the target account list, I want to show them this different experience. 12 You can be anonymous. The traffic. All right. Maybe that maybe you didn't tag the link. Or maybe they came from somewhere else. You might use one of the D anonymous ation vendors out there that say, Oh, you know what? Dan showed up from the sweet Fish media office and we know who he is. We can personalize that way. And three, if they visited the site before. And maybe they felt that a form you can go match the, you know, market a munchkin or some other way toe reconnect back to that profile to that, know who it is. So you can personalize by industry by role, by size of company by stage and funnel or whatever other lens you would like to...

...use on that personalization. Does that resonate then? So I think so. I think so is three different ways. One. I give something like and televised the information through the link You, Earl, the Perma link that comes to the with EU tm programs and all that kind of stuff. Eso I can essentially say Hey, I'm going to send people to my home page But I know in this particular setting where I'm sharing the link there would be in this particular industry. So while I'm sending to my home page, it's gonna customize it for the industry because I have a little bit more control over that. Maybe I know where I'm sharing the link. Maybe I'm shooting the link than email out to a group, and I haven't targeted already. So there's that. I think the second one I heard was just through cookies because they visited. Maybe they visited particular block post in the past, and because of that, I can tag them now in the system to know, like, okay, this person's in this camp. So next time they come back to the home page, maybe through a retargeting ad, I can customize it, knowing what I know about them because they visited this one block post. Maybe they found it to search or something. And then the last one is through the CRM because they fill out a form. At some point, we can customize it based on what we have in the crm about them, which could start to customize it based on where they're at in their journey. Is that right? Hey, almost exactly. I'm totally with you on the first one. And in fact, you can use those. You tm parameters. Chances are you've done it for yourself. It's not for in televised. You've already done it for your own analytics will reuse them. And to your point, Dan, you could do it by industry. You could do it down to the account. You could say it is JetBlue showing up. And so I want to personalize this specific. I want to show JetBlue their account rep on the page. I want to say, Hey, Joe, or Jane is ready to talk to you. The third one totally with you. The CRM system? Absolutely the second one. That's a great idea. We've seen that dunmore and B to C, where you'll pay blue kind experience. They've got, you know, huge cookie pools out there. They're looking across sites to go identify, you know, demographics or behavior about somebody.

The thing I was mentioning that I didn't do a good job describing Waas to pay someone like some of the folks we think about her clear bit or six cents or demand base, where they've got a big database of this I p address is this company's office. So it's not about the cookies. It's actually about the I P address. And so, you know, they showed up from JetBlue's office in wherever their headquarters is. Let's pretend it's New York, right, that that that's their office. I know that somebody from JetBlue and I can personalize the site accordingly, so it's like a reverse I p look up. Actually, it's exactly that. Does that resonate? Yep, absolutely. And it makes sense in a lot of a B M. Tech companies are certainly using the I P address. Quite often, I mentioned that's gotten hard in a remote work environment where people are working from home a lot. That tactic quite working as well as these two. But I sure as we go back, there's many people go back to work that'll that'll probably work a lot better. The cookie one's interesting. Those I found that that was probably, at least for me. What I've done with websites before is based on the cookies. I think one of my favorite plug ins that I've used just for WordPress and this is like a kind of like $100 or $3200 kind of month thing called Opted Monster can. Actually, you can customize the CTS, the pop ups or the Sita forms. Which ones are showing based on previous pages hit or loaded to it? I'm assuming they're doing it with cookies. That's probably the only logical explanation I could get Thio because they wouldn't have access to my CRM. But that's probably the only reason why would think that's possible is I've seen a few other people like that do it interesting, and it does seem like there are folks who make a whole business out of it. You know, looking across sites, we purposely don't. I spent the last 15 years and ad tech, and we aren't doing that cross site but the matching in any way but within a site. Dan Dear Point, you can infer an awful lot based on some of these behavior, right? If they go toe a page with a particular case study, you can infer size of company and industry. If they go to a particular product, you...

...can infer what product they're interested in. Often you'll have personas on your site. You can, you know, infer from their behavior which persona they are. And remember that and speak to them differently across the site, using content you already have. But if they went to that case study, show them another one from the same industry on their home page. The next time they show up, you don't have to create a whole new one. You can tailor the experience to create a more personalized account base approach, so you're using cookies to some degree and changing the site live absolutely within the site. When I heard Cookie, I was thinking back to add tech days cross. No, no, no. It's like I've heard some people call on site retargeting. It's like ads, but they're all on your site, like you have full control over it, right? And maybe some people caught. Gosh, I've run into a few small startups that do this now they've tried to position it is on, like on site retargeting, But really, it's just changing things off based on what pages people visited before. Okay, that's kind of cool that it's like the site suggesting to you, even if it knows nothing about you. As soon as you start clicking on links, it starts suggesting the experience for you. And that's a different depth that I have not heard or thought about before you spot on. And if it was nothing about you, it can still do a better than I know nothing about your job of deciding what to show you. Why? Because even if you show up and we know nothing about you through reverse, I p look upto location. We know city, state, country we know mobile desktop tablet. We know. Is that your first visit? A repeat visit. We know if you came from another site, what site where you want just through the refer. If you were clicked on an ad or an email to your point about the U. T. M's earlier, we know what messaging you saw. We know what targeting was used. You can use all of those. Even if we've never seen anybody who looks exactly like you, we can use machine learning to infer. Well, okay, I've seen people who share some of the attributes with Dan. Let me go show Dan something that's more...

...likely to get him to fill out the form we want him to fill out, to talk to sales or to do the, you know, free product trial signing. Is that resident Absolutely. So I'm thinking through it's almost like putting something like this on your website makes sense in any case. But it certainly makes sense for your A B M campaigns, mainly because of the the I P. Look up or because you can tap into other data sources that can then change the site for what you know is your target account. But even if you don't know it's your target account, it could still start affecting and changing the conversion rate on your site quite drastically. By customizing the whole experience, I couldn't agree with you more and often will find, you know, 98% of the traffic to the site is not the target account list. And so to be able tohave that spectrum from you know what I'm doing 1 to 1. Marketing. I know this is Joe or Jane at Agnico, and I'm gonna go name Acme Co on the site. I'm gonna go show them their competitors logos in the logo farm. I'm going to show them in industry specific case study all the way through to I have no idea who this is and being ableto do that one. The 11 too few, one too many, all in the same experience on the same website we find that helps maximize revenue for B two B marketers. Hey, everybody, Logan with sweet fish here, if you've been listening to the show for a while, you know, we're big proponents of putting out original organic content on LinkedIn. But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is too easily track the reach of that Lincoln content. That's why I was really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from a connection on you guessed it linked in. Since our team started using shield, I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance of Arlington content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see things like...

...what contents been performing the best and what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views proposed? I highly suggest you guys check out this tool. If you're putting out content on LinkedIn, and if you're not, you should be. It's been a game changer for us. If you go to shield app dot ai and check out the 10 day free trial. You can even use our promo code B two B growth to get a 25% discount. Again. That's shield app dot ai And that promo code is be the number to be growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. Tell me a little bit more about the 1 to 1 experience because most of what I'm thinking about when it comes to work website Personalization is like a one too few type of approach. How does it become 1 to 1? So if you knew, for example, in that email or add somebody clicked on that that was targeted specifically to dance Sanchez. And then I wanted to name your company. I wanted to put your rep on the site. I want to do push you away. I'll make it up your large enterprise. I don't want you to go to sell, sir. I want to talk to a human that works for my company. Right? I can go change each of those experiences now. I can. Most of us. I think we're used to thinking. Okay, well, that's a B m. I'm gonna do that with rules I'm gonna do. If this then that statements. We agree completely And think you could do even better. For example, what's the right way to say Agnico in the headline of the page. Hi, Agnico. Welcome back. Acne Co. We think you're great company Agnico. Here's your competitors. Technical, right? I'm making this up. You can use machine learning to say this is a B M, but I don't know exactly the right way to do it right and you actually get to not have this sort of religious debates internally. Like, what's the right way? Thio say Agnico in the headline You can use ML cared with the rule, right? If they're on my target list, I want to name them in the headline. But then,...

...which version of the headline use them all to do that? Use use machine learning to do a better job of figuring out what version to show each visitor. You can apply that principle throughout the whole experience. For the elements, there are a BME and for the elements that aren't like What do you want to call action to be or what? What what sequence of things do I want on the page? You know, do I wanna talk about the product first, or about the customers first? Or about the industry? First, you can then use ML to personalize those other elements in parallel to the A bme sort of wonder One elements. Does that reasoning? Gosh, it's like you put two things together that I normally don't put together in personalization and almost like this multi variant testing that the machine learning is doing, I always kind of figured that those was kind of like you're either doing one or the other because they're really difficult to do together. Unless I guess you have machine learning driving the whole experience and could do more than just plug in insert name and can actually fiddle with the actual copy around the personalization. So had opens up a whole world and must be interesting to see how many different variations of what Beijing can load if you have that kind of thing going on almost like your websites of leaving living, breathing thing. Um, but still, you have to put parameters on it, right? You have to give it like a character limit what it could do for a headline before it starts to throw off the site design. Right then what you said resonates so strongly. And we so often hear these air two strategies to budgets two teams and ultimately they're both in service of making more money. And so I'm totally with you on sort of the mindset shift and on the variations you can load, I'm with you fact. Our average customer over the last two years tried 177 different ideas had they done that with traditional split testing that would have taken him a quarter century. But using ML, they didn't do 177. They optimized across the 78 million possible combinations out of those 177 which us mere mortal humans can't do...

...what it would take too long and the things themselves to your point about character limits totally with you. We ultimately these air humans coming up with ideas. Humans getting mawr time Thio do the stuff we're uniquely good at doing were uniquely great and empathizing with our perspective. Customers were uniquely great at creatively, coming up with ideas to cajole them further through the funnel to get them to become customers machines. They're particularly good acting at 1 to 1 level of precision listening and responding 24 7. Effectively auto. Updating these rules all the time every few minutes. And so yes, the human puts the character limit by saying, this is a brand safe thing. I want to put on my site machine, learning to do a better job than we can of figuring out what do I show to whom and then to your last point. You can overlay rules with the machine learning right, you can say these five headlines. I show them in my best customers these five headlines, I show them to the folks. I really don't want to talk to my sales team. I want them to go to Self, sir and then let the machine learning pick within those man. Now it's a part of the conversation that was really looking forward to Let's dive into machine learning. And just because I've always had a hesitancy with machine learning, knowing that like, oh, machine, I would always think that like machine learning was for the big guys the Amazons, the Expedia's that people with millions, hundreds of millions of page views that can split test. I mean, the machine could take over because it has so much data to play with. And maybe that's something I've been told, maybe incorrectly, that it takes a lot of data for machines to learn. But you were telling me just on this pre call that might not be the case. So tell me why Why doesn't it takes so much data? Or is that is that total misconception? Where does that misconception come out of And how much data does it actually take for a machine toe? Learn Uh, even in a split test combination where you have 150 headlines to test Dan I I think the question is spot on. I think we've all been trained on that. You read about deep learning in the press that particular approach to machine learning...

...was built for Google level data to go figure out. How do you understand? You know things like what's in an image? And to take that approach you need that Amazon Expedia level of data. You can take a bunch of very experienced machine learning folks and create a different approach. I'm very fortunate to work with two co founders who were the two most senior engineers that lead a several 100 person team that used ML to personalize the Yahoo home page for more than half a decade when it was the most popular page on the Internet. That led to some insights on how to do this with very little data. So those 78 million possible combinations versions of the page. We tell our customers hey, in every scenario using MLB faster than split testing, but a good rule of thumb 1000 a day if you're getting 1000 a day, that's a good balance between trying all of your ideas at the same time and getting answers quickly. And that's limitations for us, mere mortal marketers, not the limitations of the M L. It will be faster. And how do you do that? It truly is a different approach. Like there, you know, 30 or 40 people in the world that are really good at this kind of ml. We feel very fortunate to work with a bunch of them and it, Yeah, I'm with you. That is a hard science problem to solve. It is counterintuitive, um, part of being able to solve that is actually choosing to solve a different problem recognizing ultimately this about money, right? We're trying to make more money. We're trying to drive more leads to sales to get more customers. We're used to split testing where you say I need a big pile of data. I'm gonna try to things, and I'm gonna wait until there's a statistically significant difference between the two of them. So you know more data I get to learn faster. I gotta wait if instead you say that's the wrong problem to solve, to make more money. I'm gonna instead, every few minutes trying to get better at predicting human behavior every few minutes, I'm gonna try to be better than I was a few minutes ago at predicting human behavior. If you framed the problem that way, you actually take a totally different approach and drive a whole lot of lift...

...a whole bunch sooner because you're not making a decision forever. If you're making a decision forever, like with split testing, you got to get really good at making sure it's not the wrong answer, right you need. You use statistical significance for that. If instead you're saying, I just need to be better than it was a few minutes ago. It's a very different problem to solve, and that allows you to learn every step of the way. It allows you to learn off a whole lot less traffic because your goal again is not to be perfect to be better than we were a few minutes ago. The net result. You actually get results sooner. You make more money along the way and you personalize for each visitor. That's interesting. So essentially it's it's just making choices faster. You're lowering the threshold from 95 96% or whatever accuracy to a lower threshold in order for it to start making decisions sooner. So it's taking groups, maybe a little cohorts of 20 or 30 watching it being like, Okay, Based on just this small test, we're thinking it's gonna be more like this, which means it can start test ruling in different factors a lot sooner. Is that about right? It is very much the right mentality. It is taking small groups every few minutes. It's updating itself. The counter intuitive thing. Static is actually not the goal. It's not that it raised or lowered stat C, it said. I need to do I need to refine my prediction every few minutes. Static is important for us. To marketers. It's an important mile marker along the way to be able to say, Do I wanna bank this? Do I want to use this in my email because I learned something new? Do I want to use this in my ads? You want to use this in direct mail? Do I want to use this in redesigning my website. But for the machine learning it actually doesn't care. Its goal is not to reach that, say its goal is to continuously improve. And it turns out that if you do that, you actually reach that six sooner. So it's not that it lowered the bar. It solve the different problem. It's interesting. I don't quite understand the math behind it, but that's why I'm not a computer scientists dealing with these kinds of things. So I'd like to take more into...

...and understand the, uh, kind of the math behind what it's doing because I'm still it's still using some kind of calculations in order to get the learning right has to use has toe. It's a computer. So it has to use some kind of statistical variance to know you are totally right and the differences it's incrementally getting better rather than like. Here's our final answer. Um, happily that's produced on average across all of our customers, 46% lift across everybody over the last two years, Looker used us to drive 44% more downstream. Stage two qualified leads drift 300% 322% more, sq Els tableau, 40% more digital transactions using this approach, these air well known brands not only get a huge amount of traffic to be able to do that is enabled, in part by framing the problem differently this way. Wow. So if you're a small player and not one of these huge brands, how do you get started? What do you even know? Do you just have to wait until you're a huge brand to be able to test this out? It's a great question. Two parts of the answer. One. If you have the resources to devote to it, I humbly submit. Go do this right away because you get to skip learning a whole bunch about stacks, checking this thing every day, bugging engineering Every time you find a winner, right? All the things you have to do with split testing, you get to focus more time on empathizing with your customers and coming up with creative ideas to turn prospects into customers. That's great if you don't have the resources to go after it, then humbly submitted the way we normally think about a B M with rules. Great. Go give that a shot. Go try them out right if you're getting, if you don't have, the resource is internally or if you're getting on it all, making a 10 a day, right? If you're getting 10 visitors a day, data driven marketing will be hard. You should use your intuition. Absolutely. So you're recommending just sticking with rules for now and doing the split...

...test, doing those kinds of things and working your way up to the point where you can afford some machine learning tools. But do you have any, like machine learning tools specifically that are maybe basic but can still show you the power of what machine learning to do in website personalization? I wish I had a better answer to that. To me, it's It is primarily around. The resource is you have the attention. You could give this. And if you don't have those or you have, like 10 a day on traffic, then I would suggest using if this, then that or straight split testing straight a B testing. I transparently don't don't have a great answer on, like what's an inexpensive way or T do ml. Happily, ML, when correctly applied, is a big force multiplier for us, right? Like none of the marketers with whom we work would have time to create 78 million different ideas. No, no human would. And most of them did not create 177 different pieces in new content. They were used a bunch of content they already had on their site. They tweaked headlines. They changed calls to action. But like a whole new case study, they didn't go right. They used the stuff they already had and were able to get Mawr bang for the buck off the investments they've already made using ml. And again, if you don't have the resources to go do that, you know, do straight split tester. Try, try rules would be my humble suggestion. Fantastic. And I think as you were talking to Mike, I think this is This is kind of a hack and maybe a shortcut way of using machine learning or using someone else's machine learning tool and then in a kind of applying it to a different setting. But I do find that it works a little bit. One thing I've done is take advantage of Facebook's algorithm because Facebook's really good at figuring out which added image combination Which text is gonna work now? Use not personalized. But you could still find a test. 150 literally 150 different headlines with a bunch of different images. Go run and spend a couple 100 bucks on Facebook, and it'll tell you which one works better. And then you just go and put that on your homepage or your landing page because...

...it's probably gonna be better than the ones before, even though it's in a different context. So it's not a true fit, but it's probably gonna be better than the bottom 50% of what you put out there to test Dan I that that is a great idea. I'm gonna share that with others. If if that's okay with you, it resonates a lot. It's not an accident that the thing we're talking about doing on websites feels a lot like what you just described in ads. Because I spent the last 15 years and Antec right, we it made no sense to us at all. Did Facebook or Google will say, Hey, give me five search Creative. I'll figure out the right ones to show to whom I'll show the better ones Mawr. I'll show the worst ones less. Nobody done that on websites. The bottom of the funnel where this money is actually made. Okay, so we did. And what you're talking about is a proxy for Hey, how do I get that research? In the end, I'm not gonna personalize on my site using that approach, right? I'm gonna do winner take all of the show, everybody the same experience. But I will learn, right. It's I I can to your point. You're effectively running a multi variant test on more traffic than you get to your website because you're paying for the impressions. That's it. If you're gonna run a multi variant test to go find a winner take all winter to put on your site, that's a thoughtful way to do it. At least that's what I usually tell customers who wanna run Facebook ads. And I'm like, Hey, don't expect a lot of conversions on the front and think of it as like market research, right? And then maybe we go get some great zero later. Great lead A great amount of leads later. It has been a fascinating conversation guy. If people wanna learn mawr about this topic of website personalization, machine learning and how you can apply to a B M work and they find you online and your your company in order to learn more you generously shared earlier in televised dot com. It will have a bunch of content around this. We've done a bunch of webinars taught. A couple, of course, is really tried. Thio talk to us as fellow marketers about how to get the most out of ml uh, in your marketing...

...efforts and for me, I'm g y a l i f on Twitter. That's my handle. First initial last night, G a leaf. Look forward to continue the conversation there. And Dan, thank you so very, very much for having me dio Fantastic. Thanks again for joining me on GDP growth. I want Yeah. Are you on Lincoln? That's a stupid question. Of course you're on LinkedIn here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in on the platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me. Other times it's a micro video or a slide deck, and sometimes it's just a regular all status update that shares their unique point of view on B two b marketing leadership or their job function were posting this content through their personal profile, not our company page. And it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with each of our evangelists, will be adding Mawr down the road. But for now, you should connect with Bill Reed, R C O O Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director. Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth. Logan Lyles, our director of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot of fun on linked in pretty much every single day on. We'd love for you to be a part of it.

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