B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1990 · 8 months ago

The Role of Website Personalization in ABM

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Guy Yalif about the role of website personalization in ABM. 

...welcome back to be to be a growth. I'mDan Sanchez with sweet fish Media and I'm continuing the journey and a B Mand I'm three weeks in So a b m starting to become a real reality to meto sinking, and I've read multiple books on the topic. I still have manyto go and about a week's worth of interview. Still to do before thisjourney comes to a conclusion when, while I've learned a lot, I've stillfound I have unanswered questions. I have places in the A B M space that Ihave not on deep into yet. And so today I'm joined by a guy yell If who is theCEO of Intel? Um, eyes and we're gonna be talking about websitepersonalization. This is kind of a category that I found out is in a B M,though I haven't covered in any of the episode yet, so I was excited to talkto guy about his company. What it does is well, is just the category of whatwe do with personalizing a website, which I think is any any digitalmarketing plan, any kind of marketing plan. And in 20 twenties, right is likethe main hub of all marketing that we do. We're all trying to get trafficback to our website where we have more control over the experience. So itmakes sense that we want to talk about a B M as it relates to your own website.So, guy, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. How you doing? I'mdoing great. Dan. Honored to be here. I've been listening to the podcastthroughout the month. Very excited to have this conversation. Fantastic.Ready? Dive in. So to get started, I want to talk about broadly. What iswebsite personalization in case the audience doesn't know. And why is itimportant? Website personalization is giving different visitors differentexperiences as consumers. We've all been trained by Yahoo, Amazon, Netflixand a bunch of others to expect our digital experience. Our journey withthe companies with whom we're interacting to be tailored to uswebsite personalization is an approach where you can meet in a B two b contexteach of your prospects where they are in their funnel with you to recognizethat a first time visitor is really...

...different than somebody has alreadyasked for a demo is really different than somebody who's already existingcustomer. The goal of it is more revenue more leads to sales form orcustomers. Ultimately, it's about driving more money. And it's one ofmany techniques to go do that that, like the broader umbrella of A B. M orthe broader umbrella of conversion rate optimization. Now I've seen websitepersonalization out there for a while. I'd probably say the first experience Ihad with it was probably five years ago, and I had seen it. And what hadhappened is there, like, Well, which one? Which bucket do you fit in? Wewanted Taylor, and it was literally like we wanted Taylor the website toyou, and I was like, Okay, I'm like, I don't really fit in any of thesebuckets. But I'm curious to see how this works. Click. And then, of course,the home page changed and customized the website. I was the first time Irealized that it was happening, though I'm sure it was happening long beforethat and generally you probably don't know. But a lot of websites areprobably being customized. Do you? Right now as you're browsing around theWeb or when you get back on the Web sometime today, the web, some websitesprobably been customized. Guy. What percentage of websites do you feel like?You're just being customized all the time now and people just aren't evenaware of it. It's a great question. The last time I looked at data from eitherbuilt with their data and eyes to the sources, we tend to look at the top10,000 websites. It was something like a 3rd 30 to 40%. Top 100,000 was abouthalf that. It seems like Look, we, as marketers have been a marketer for thelast decade, spent $120 billion every year just in the US driving people, thewebsites. But we failed to turn them into customers 98% of the time. Like inwhat world is that? Okay. And so we see this as something that we allincreasingly expect us consumers and in our business lives. It has a greatpositive impact, I was gonna say for a lot of websites, 2% would even bepretty dang good, right? I've heard anywhere from like if you're if you'rein between the 2 to 5% conversion rate on your website, depending on whatindustry of course that you're in like...

...you're usually doing pretty good likeeven talk, Thio asked Chris Walker and lengthen recently. He's like we got toget beyond the 0.5% conversion rates. I'm like So what is good? He's like, Oh,you know, between two and 5%. I'm like, Okay, it's not like 10 or 15% thoughits's would be highly uncommon to see that on, I think, if you're not surewhat website personalization as I love if you go toe intel, um eyes dot comthey have this one button that I found was wonderful because it illustrateswhat they do and what it is. It's like a yellow button that kind of hoversover the website. If you click it, it says, see what is optimized here. Youclick the button and all of sudden it throws like these blue dotted boxesaround every section of their website that has been customized for me, thewebsite visitor. So it's very exciting to see all the things that you cancustomize, of course, is a marketer. I'm like Well, it's probably a lot offrickin work because now I have to figure out, Oh, what would I serve toeverybody? And how would I think about it differently? But that will have towait for that part of the conversation a little later in the interview. Fornow, I want to talk about, Like, what? How is this related to a B M like, Howis this serve somebody who's walking through an A B M campaign to tailortheir website to their audience? We think they are directly related. So a BM is saying, as you've covered previously on the podcast, sales andmarketing are going to be coordinated. So the marketings focused their spearsthat they're sending outbound on the exact accounts and individuals thatthose accounts that matter to sales. Great. Let's say you hook one of themand managed to get them to your website. You want to speak to them differentlythan you would speak to others. We encourage all the folks with whom wework to treat every page, in particular their home page, like a landing page,or you think about all the landing pages we've all created over the yearsfor our ads. What if your home page where that personalized? What if everypage was 1 to 2? Then go meet them where they are in their journey withyou, to recognize that you're speaking to different roles at different sizedcompanies that air in different places...

...in their journey, and that you cancreate a mawr bespoke, more relevant experience that will move them throughthe funnel more quickly. So Website personalization helps bring a wholebunch of that toe life, often to your earlier point about content reusingcontent you already have. You've already created the personas you'vealready created. The case studies. If you can show that visitor the onethat's relevant to them, they're more likely to engage with you more. Makes alot of sense, but my question is like, Let's say I've been interacting withpeople on Lincoln. I share a link to my maybe a block post, a case study atpublished recently, and they're visiting to it from Lincoln. How doesit know that they're in my target account? Because there's probably a lotof traffic coming from LinkedIn, but some of them are outside my I C p. Someof them aren't my target accounts, but could be, you know, and some arespecifically the exact people I want to build a relationship with. How does itknow? Great question. We typically seen a three ways this will happen. Uh, one.Often you've already put you tm parameters or other euro parameters inthe link for your own analytics. You can use those to better personalize theexperience. We automatically parse all of them. Andi, use that in machine,learning to find correlations. Or you can set up rules, right? If if they'rein the target account list, I want to show them this different experience. 12You can be anonymous. The traffic. All right. Maybe that maybe you didn't tagthe link. Or maybe they came from somewhere else. You might use one ofthe D anonymous ation vendors out there that say, Oh, you know what? Dan showedup from the sweet Fish media office and we know who he is. We can personalizethat way. And three, if they visited the site before. And maybe they feltthat a form you can go match the, you know, market a munchkin or some otherway toe reconnect back to that profile to that, know who it is. So you canpersonalize by industry by role, by size of company by stage and funnel orwhatever other lens you would like to...

...use on that personalization. Does thatresonate then? So I think so. I think so is three different ways. One. I givesomething like and televised the information through the link You, Earl,the Perma link that comes to the with EU tm programs and all that kind ofstuff. Eso I can essentially say Hey, I'm going to send people to my homepage But I know in this particular setting where I'm sharing the linkthere would be in this particular industry. So while I'm sending to myhome page, it's gonna customize it for the industry because I have a littlebit more control over that. Maybe I know where I'm sharing the link. MaybeI'm shooting the link than email out to a group, and I haven't targeted already.So there's that. I think the second one I heard was just through cookiesbecause they visited. Maybe they visited particular block post in thepast, and because of that, I can tag them now in the system to know, like,okay, this person's in this camp. So next time they come back to the homepage, maybe through a retargeting ad, I can customize it, knowing what I knowabout them because they visited this one block post. Maybe they found it tosearch or something. And then the last one is through the CRM because theyfill out a form. At some point, we can customize it based on what we have inthe crm about them, which could start to customize it based on where they'reat in their journey. Is that right? Hey, almost exactly. I'm totally with you onthe first one. And in fact, you can use those. You tm parameters. Chances areyou've done it for yourself. It's not for in televised. You've already doneit for your own analytics will reuse them. And to your point, Dan, you coulddo it by industry. You could do it down to the account. You could say it isJetBlue showing up. And so I want to personalize this specific. I want toshow JetBlue their account rep on the page. I want to say, Hey, Joe, or Janeis ready to talk to you. The third one totally with you. The CRM system?Absolutely the second one. That's a great idea. We've seen that dunmore andB to C, where you'll pay blue kind experience. They've got, you know, hugecookie pools out there. They're looking across sites to go identify, you know,demographics or behavior about somebody.

The thing I was mentioning that Ididn't do a good job describing Waas to pay someone like some of the folks wethink about her clear bit or six cents or demand base, where they've got a bigdatabase of this I p address is this company's office. So it's not about thecookies. It's actually about the I P address. And so, you know, they showedup from JetBlue's office in wherever their headquarters is. Let's pretendit's New York, right, that that that's their office. I know that somebody fromJetBlue and I can personalize the site accordingly, so it's like a reverse I plook up. Actually, it's exactly that. Does that resonate? Yep, absolutely. And it makes sense ina lot of a B M. Tech companies are certainly using the I P address. Quiteoften, I mentioned that's gotten hard in a remote work environment wherepeople are working from home a lot. That tactic quite working as well asthese two. But I sure as we go back, there's many people go back to workthat'll that'll probably work a lot better. The cookie one's interesting.Those I found that that was probably, at least for me. What I've done withwebsites before is based on the cookies. I think one of my favorite plug insthat I've used just for WordPress and this is like a kind of like $100 or$3200 kind of month thing called Opted Monster can. Actually, you cancustomize the CTS, the pop ups or the Sita forms. Which ones are showingbased on previous pages hit or loaded to it? I'm assuming they're doing itwith cookies. That's probably the only logical explanation I could get Thiobecause they wouldn't have access to my CRM. But that's probably the onlyreason why would think that's possible is I've seen a few other people likethat do it interesting, and it does seem like there are folks who make awhole business out of it. You know, looking across sites, we purposelydon't. I spent the last 15 years and ad tech, and we aren't doing that crosssite but the matching in any way but within a site. Dan Dear Point, you caninfer an awful lot based on some of these behavior, right? If they go toe apage with a particular case study, you can infer size of company and industry.If they go to a particular product, you...

...can infer what product they'reinterested in. Often you'll have personas on your site. You can, youknow, infer from their behavior which persona they are. And remember that andspeak to them differently across the site, using content you already have.But if they went to that case study, show them another one from the sameindustry on their home page. The next time they show up, you don't have tocreate a whole new one. You can tailor the experience to create a morepersonalized account base approach, so you're using cookies to some degree andchanging the site live absolutely within the site. When I heard Cookie, Iwas thinking back to add tech days cross. No, no, no. It's like I've heardsome people call on site retargeting. It's like ads, but they're all on yoursite, like you have full control over it, right? And maybe some people caught.Gosh, I've run into a few small startups that do this now they've triedto position it is on, like on site retargeting, But really, it's justchanging things off based on what pages people visited before. Okay, that'skind of cool that it's like the site suggesting to you, even if it knowsnothing about you. As soon as you start clicking on links, it starts suggestingthe experience for you. And that's a different depth that I have not heardor thought about before you spot on. And if it was nothing about you, it canstill do a better than I know nothing about your job of deciding what to showyou. Why? Because even if you show up and we know nothing about you through reverse, I p look upto location.We know city, state, country we know mobile desktop tablet. We know. Is thatyour first visit? A repeat visit. We know if you came from another site,what site where you want just through the refer. If you were clicked on an ador an email to your point about the U. T. M's earlier, we know what messagingyou saw. We know what targeting was used. You can use all of those. Even ifwe've never seen anybody who looks exactly like you, we can use machine learning to infer.Well, okay, I've seen people who share some of the attributes with Dan. Let mego show Dan something that's more...

...likely to get him to fill out the formwe want him to fill out, to talk to sales or to do the, you know, freeproduct trial signing. Is that resident Absolutely. So I'mthinking through it's almost like putting something like this on yourwebsite makes sense in any case. But it certainly makes sense for your A B Mcampaigns, mainly because of the the I P. Look up or because you can tap intoother data sources that can then change the site for what you know is yourtarget account. But even if you don't know it's your target account, it couldstill start affecting and changing the conversion rate on your site quitedrastically. By customizing the whole experience, I couldn't agree with youmore and often will find, you know, 98% of the traffic to the site is not thetarget account list. And so to be able tohave that spectrum from you know whatI'm doing 1 to 1. Marketing. I know this is Joe or Jane at Agnico, and I'mgonna go name Acme Co on the site. I'm gonna go show them their competitorslogos in the logo farm. I'm going to show them in industry specific casestudy all the way through to I have no idea who this is and being ableto dothat one. The 11 too few, one too many, all in the same experience on the samewebsite we find that helps maximize revenue for B two B marketers. Hey,everybody, Logan with sweet fish here, if you've been listening to the showfor a while, you know, we're big proponents of putting out originalorganic content on LinkedIn. But one thing that's always been a struggle fora team like ours is too easily track the reach of that Lincoln content.That's why I was really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from aconnection on you guessed it linked in. Since our team started using shield,I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance ofArlington content without having to manually log it ourselves. Itautomatically creates reports and generate some dashboards that areincredibly useful to see things like...

...what contents been performing the bestand what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and ouraverage views proposed? I highly suggest you guys check out this tool.If you're putting out content on LinkedIn, and if you're not, you shouldbe. It's been a game changer for us. If you go to shield app dot ai and checkout the 10 day free trial. You can even use our promo code B two B growth toget a 25% discount. Again. That's shield app dot ai And that promo codeis be the number to be growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to theshow. Tell me a little bit more about the 1 to 1 experience because most ofwhat I'm thinking about when it comes to work website Personalization is likea one too few type of approach. How does it become 1 to 1? So if you knew,for example, in that email or add somebody clicked on that that wastargeted specifically to dance Sanchez. And then I wanted to name your company.I wanted to put your rep on the site. I want to do push you away. I'll make itup your large enterprise. I don't want you to go to sell, sir. I want to talkto a human that works for my company. Right? I can go change each of thoseexperiences now. I can. Most of us. I think we're used to thinking. Okay,well, that's a B m. I'm gonna do that with rules I'm gonna do. If this thenthat statements. We agree completely And think you could do even better. Forexample, what's the right way to say Agnico in the headline of the page. Hi,Agnico. Welcome back. Acne Co. We think you're great company Agnico. Here'syour competitors. Technical, right? I'm making this up. You can use machinelearning to say this is a B M, but I don't know exactly the right wayto do it right and you actually get to not have this sort of religious debatesinternally. Like, what's the right way? Thio say Agnico in the headline You canuse ML cared with the rule, right? If they're on my target list, I want toname them in the headline. But then,...

...which version of the headline use themall to do that? Use use machine learning to do a better job of figuringout what version to show each visitor. You can apply that principle throughoutthe whole experience. For the elements, there are a BME and for the elementsthat aren't like What do you want to call action to be or what? What whatsequence of things do I want on the page? You know, do I wanna talk aboutthe product first, or about the customers first? Or about the industry?First, you can then use ML to personalize those other elements inparallel to the A bme sort of wonder One elements. Does that reasoning? Gosh,it's like you put two things together that I normally don't put together inpersonalization and almost like this multi variant testing that the machinelearning is doing, I always kind of figured that those was kind of likeyou're either doing one or the other because they're really difficult to dotogether. Unless I guess you have machine learning driving the wholeexperience and could do more than just plug in insert name and can actuallyfiddle with the actual copy around the personalization. So had opens up awhole world and must be interesting to see how many different variations ofwhat Beijing can load if you have that kind of thing going on almost like yourwebsites of leaving living, breathing thing. Um, but still, you have to putparameters on it, right? You have to give it like a character limit what itcould do for a headline before it starts to throw off the site design.Right then what you said resonates so strongly. And we so often hear theseair two strategies to budgets two teams and ultimately they're both in serviceof making more money. And so I'm totally with you on sort of the mindsetshift and on the variations you can load, I'm with you fact. Our averagecustomer over the last two years tried 177 different ideas had they done thatwith traditional split testing that would have taken him a quarter century. But using ML, they didn't do 177. Theyoptimized across the 78 million possible combinations out of those 177which us mere mortal humans can't do...

...what it would take too long and thethings themselves to your point about character limits totally with you. Weultimately these air humans coming up with ideas. Humans getting mawr timeThio do the stuff we're uniquely good at doing were uniquely great andempathizing with our perspective. Customers were uniquely great atcreatively, coming up with ideas to cajole them further through the funnelto get them to become customers machines. They're particularly goodacting at 1 to 1 level of precision listening and responding 24 7.Effectively auto. Updating these rules all the time every few minutes. And soyes, the human puts the character limit by saying, this is a brand safe thing.I want to put on my site machine, learning to do a better job than we canof figuring out what do I show to whom and then to your last point. You canoverlay rules with the machine learning right, you can say these five headlines.I show them in my best customers these five headlines, I show them to thefolks. I really don't want to talk to my sales team. I want them to go toSelf, sir and then let the machine learning pick within those man. Nowit's a part of the conversation that was really looking forward to Let'sdive into machine learning. And just because I've always had a hesitancywith machine learning, knowing that like, oh, machine, I would always thinkthat like machine learning was for the big guys the Amazons, the Expedia'sthat people with millions, hundreds of millions of page views that can splittest. I mean, the machine could take over because it has so much data toplay with. And maybe that's something I've been told, maybe incorrectly, thatit takes a lot of data for machines to learn. But you were telling me just onthis pre call that might not be the case. So tell me why Why doesn't ittakes so much data? Or is that is that total misconception? Where does thatmisconception come out of And how much data does it actually take for amachine toe? Learn Uh, even in a split test combination where you have 150headlines to test Dan I I think the question is spot on. I think we've allbeen trained on that. You read about deep learning in the press thatparticular approach to machine learning...

...was built for Google level data to gofigure out. How do you understand? You know things like what's in an image?And to take that approach you need that Amazon Expedia level of data. You cantake a bunch of very experienced machine learning folks and create adifferent approach. I'm very fortunate to work with two co founders who werethe two most senior engineers that lead a several 100 person team that used MLto personalize the Yahoo home page for more than half a decade when it was themost popular page on the Internet. That led to some insights on how to do thiswith very little data. So those 78 million possible combinations versionsof the page. We tell our customers hey, in every scenario using MLB faster thansplit testing, but a good rule of thumb 1000 a day if you're getting 1000 a day,that's a good balance between trying all of your ideas at the same time andgetting answers quickly. And that's limitations for us, mere mortalmarketers, not the limitations of the M L. It will be faster. And how do you dothat? It truly is a different approach. Like there, you know, 30 or 40 peoplein the world that are really good at this kind of ml. We feel very fortunateto work with a bunch of them and it, Yeah, I'm with you. That is a hardscience problem to solve. It is counterintuitive, um, part of beingable to solve that is actually choosing to solve a different problemrecognizing ultimately this about money, right? We're trying to make more money.We're trying to drive more leads to sales to get more customers. We're usedto split testing where you say I need a big pile of data. I'm gonna try tothings, and I'm gonna wait until there's a statistically significantdifference between the two of them. So you know more data I get to learnfaster. I gotta wait if instead you say that's the wrong problem to solve, tomake more money. I'm gonna instead, every few minutes trying to get betterat predicting human behavior every few minutes, I'm gonna try to be betterthan I was a few minutes ago at predicting human behavior. If youframed the problem that way, you actually take a totally differentapproach and drive a whole lot of lift...

...a whole bunch sooner because you're notmaking a decision forever. If you're making a decision forever, like withsplit testing, you got to get really good at making sure it's not the wronganswer, right you need. You use statistical significance for that. Ifinstead you're saying, I just need to be better than it was a few minutes ago.It's a very different problem to solve, and that allows you to learn every stepof the way. It allows you to learn off a whole lot less traffic because yourgoal again is not to be perfect to be better than we were a few minutes ago.The net result. You actually get results sooner. You make more moneyalong the way and you personalize for each visitor. That's interesting. So essentially it'sit's just making choices faster. You're lowering the threshold from 95 96% orwhatever accuracy to a lower threshold in order for it to start makingdecisions sooner. So it's taking groups, maybe a little cohorts of 20 or 30watching it being like, Okay, Based on just this small test, we're thinkingit's gonna be more like this, which means it can start test ruling indifferent factors a lot sooner. Is that about right? It is very much the rightmentality. It is taking small groups every few minutes. It's updating itself.The counter intuitive thing. Static is actually not the goal. It's not that itraised or lowered stat C, it said. I need to do I need to refine myprediction every few minutes. Static is important for us. To marketers. It's animportant mile marker along the way to be able to say, Do I wanna bank this?Do I want to use this in my email because I learned something new? Do Iwant to use this in my ads? You want to use this in direct mail? Do I want touse this in redesigning my website. But for the machine learning it actuallydoesn't care. Its goal is not to reach that, say its goal is to continuouslyimprove. And it turns out that if you do that, you actually reach that sixsooner. So it's not that it lowered the bar. It solve the different problem.It's interesting. I don't quite understand the math behind it, butthat's why I'm not a computer scientists dealing with these kinds ofthings. So I'd like to take more into...

...and understand the, uh, kind of themath behind what it's doing because I'm still it's still using some kind ofcalculations in order to get the learning right has to use has toe. It'sa computer. So it has to use some kind of statistical variance to know you aretotally right and the differences it's incrementally getting better ratherthan like. Here's our final answer. Um, happily that's produced on averageacross all of our customers, 46% lift across everybody over the last twoyears, Looker used us to drive 44% more downstream. Stage two qualified leadsdrift 300% 322% more, sq Els tableau, 40% more digital transactions usingthis approach, these air well known brands not only get a huge amount oftraffic to be able to do that is enabled, in part by framing the problemdifferently this way. Wow. So if you're a small player and not one of thesehuge brands, how do you get started? What do you even know? Do you just haveto wait until you're a huge brand to be able to test this out? It's a greatquestion. Two parts of the answer. One. If you have the resources to devote toit, I humbly submit. Go do this right away because you get to skip learning awhole bunch about stacks, checking this thing every day, bugging engineeringEvery time you find a winner, right? All the things you have to do withsplit testing, you get to focus more time on empathizing with your customersand coming up with creative ideas to turn prospects into customers. That'sgreat if you don't have the resources to go after it, then humbly submittedthe way we normally think about a B M with rules. Great. Go give that a shot.Go try them out right if you're getting, if you don't have, the resource isinternally or if you're getting on it all, making a 10 a day, right? Ifyou're getting 10 visitors a day, data driven marketing will be hard. Youshould use your intuition. Absolutely. So you're recommending just stickingwith rules for now and doing the split...

...test, doing those kinds of things andworking your way up to the point where you can afford some machine learningtools. But do you have any, like machine learning tools specificallythat are maybe basic but can still show you the power of what machine learningto do in website personalization? I wish I had a better answer to that. Tome, it's It is primarily around. The resource is you have the attention. Youcould give this. And if you don't have those or you have, like 10 a day ontraffic, then I would suggest using if this, then that or straight splittesting straight a B testing. I transparently don't don't have a greatanswer on, like what's an inexpensive way or T do ml. Happily, ML, whencorrectly applied, is a big force multiplier for us, right? Like none ofthe marketers with whom we work would have time to create 78 milliondifferent ideas. No, no human would. And most of them did not create 177different pieces in new content. They were used a bunch of content theyalready had on their site. They tweaked headlines. They changed calls to action.But like a whole new case study, they didn't go right. They used the stuffthey already had and were able to get Mawr bang for the buck off theinvestments they've already made using ml. And again, if you don't have theresources to go do that, you know, do straight split tester. Try, try ruleswould be my humble suggestion. Fantastic. And I think as you weretalking to Mike, I think this is This is kind of a hack and maybe a shortcutway of using machine learning or using someone else's machine learning tooland then in a kind of applying it to a different setting. But I do find thatit works a little bit. One thing I've done is take advantage of Facebook'salgorithm because Facebook's really good at figuring out which added imagecombination Which text is gonna work now? Use not personalized. But youcould still find a test. 150 literally 150 different headlines with a bunch ofdifferent images. Go run and spend a couple 100 bucks on Facebook, and it'lltell you which one works better. And then you just go and put that on yourhomepage or your landing page because...

...it's probably gonna be better than theones before, even though it's in a different context. So it's not a truefit, but it's probably gonna be better than the bottom 50% of what you put outthere to test Dan I that that is a great idea. I'm gonna share that withothers. If if that's okay with you, it resonates a lot. It's not an accidentthat the thing we're talking about doing on websites feels a lot like whatyou just described in ads. Because I spent the last 15 years and Antec right,we it made no sense to us at all. Did Facebook or Google will say, Hey, giveme five search Creative. I'll figure out the right ones to show to whom I'llshow the better ones Mawr. I'll show the worst ones less. Nobody done thaton websites. The bottom of the funnel where this money is actually made. Okay,so we did. And what you're talking about is a proxy for Hey, how do I getthat research? In the end, I'm not gonna personalize on my site using thatapproach, right? I'm gonna do winner take all of the show, everybody thesame experience. But I will learn, right. It's I I can to your point.You're effectively running a multi variant test on more traffic than youget to your website because you're paying for the impressions. That's it.If you're gonna run a multi variant test to go find a winner take allwinter to put on your site, that's a thoughtful way to do it. At leastthat's what I usually tell customers who wanna run Facebook ads. And I'mlike, Hey, don't expect a lot of conversions on the front and think ofit as like market research, right? And then maybe we go get some great zerolater. Great lead A great amount of leads later. It has been a fascinatingconversation guy. If people wanna learn mawr about this topic of websitepersonalization, machine learning and how you can apply to a B M work andthey find you online and your your company in order to learn more yougenerously shared earlier in televised dot com. It will have a bunch ofcontent around this. We've done a bunch of webinars taught. A couple, of course,is really tried. Thio talk to us as fellow marketers about how to get themost out of ml uh, in your marketing...

...efforts and for me, I'm g y a l i f onTwitter. That's my handle. First initial last night, G a leaf. Lookforward to continue the conversation there. And Dan, thank you so very, verymuch for having me dio Fantastic. Thanks again for joining me on GDPgrowth. I want Yeah. Are you on Lincoln? That's a stupid question. Of courseyou're on LinkedIn here. Sweet fish. We've gone all in on the platform.Multiple people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it'sa funny gift for me. Other times it's a micro video or a slide deck, andsometimes it's just a regular all status update that shares their uniquepoint of view on B two b marketing leadership or their job function wereposting this content through their personal profile, not our company page.And it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with each of ourevangelists, will be adding Mawr down the road. But for now, you shouldconnect with Bill Reed, R C O O Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director. DanSanchez, our director of audience growth. Logan Lyles, our director ofpartnerships, and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot of fun onlinked in pretty much every single day on. We'd love for you to be a part ofit.

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