The Marketing Channel You Can’t Overlook | Original Research

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We spoke with 100 marketing leaders and asked "What is your most successful marketing channel?" In this roundtable discussion Benji , James , and Logan breakdown the findings.  

Discussed in this episode: 

  • Leveraging Organic Search to grow community across marketing channels
  • Optimizing organic search while emphasizing being human
  • Aligning searcher intent and your unique brand voice

Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth Welcoming Friends. Today is our third episode and UH series that we've been doing around original research from last year. So we sat down with a hundred marketing leaders. We asked fifteen original research questions to just get a sense of where B two B marketing teams are at. And today what we want to do is we want to tackle the findings from this question what is your most successful marketing channel? If you're interested in what we found that was most marketing team's biggest struggle or the metric that your CEO checks most often, you can actually find those previous episodes right here in our B two B Growth podcast feed and tell you man worth checking out some great conversations, great remedies for some of these things. And UH excited for this third installment today. And I do want to give a shout out to the hundred marketing leaders and just say thank you for sitting down with us, for giving us your time and your insights, and glad to jump into this now. When I think of this question, when I think of what's our most successful marketing channel, I think our marketing team here as far as time here at sweet Fish, we spend a lot of time on organic social efforts. It's on things like B two B growth like this podcast. However, I would not say that that is our most successful channel. And uh, I looked through our findings and actually what I think is I tend to agree with the majority on this one. But logan, I'll ask you first, what do you see as our most successful marketing channel, and then what leads you to the conclusion that you have. Yeah, I would say LinkedIn is definitely up there for us. You know, Emily Brady on our team has done a fantastic job overseeing multiple iterations of our evangelist program. So often people are aware of sweet Fish for a long time through LinkedIn before they engage with us. It's interesting sometimes, you know, we'll see someone new come into our pipeline. I'm like, oh, I recognize them because they've commented on on posts and I've connected with them and I've seen them, you know, engage with one of Dan's posts or one of the Emily's posts or something like that. So LinkedIn has been consistently a channel organic LinkedIn that is that has driven a lot of results for us as a team. M. James, What are your thoughts here? So as we we implemented self reported attribution probably about four or five months ago, and it's been really interesting for me to see because I would have said something very similar to what Logan just said. I would have thought that LinkedIn drives the bulk of our of our inbound but after implementing self reported attribution, we got it tied into Slack. So every time we get an inbound lead, it shows up in our wins channel on our company Slack, and over and over and over and over again. It seems like seven out of ten inbound requests that we get are coming from somebody saying some version of Google online search. I mean, people are finding us on Google. And so it feels weird to say that this seems a little bit like a contrarian take because Chris Walker has really been pounding home this point that people don't search, people don't use Google the way that all these brands think they use Google. And and I think, just based on my own experience and in owning a business that's seeing we're doing all this stuff Chris is saying to do, We're we've gotta Obviously, we're very passionate about podcasting and doing organic LinkedIn, but overwhelmingly the opportunities were getting coming to us are coming from Google. I think the work that Dan...

...from our team did about a year and a half ago really catapulted us from a search perspective, and I'm super grateful for that. Yeah, we're gonna talk more about this a little bit later, but overwhelmingly in our in our self reported attribution, people are finding us on Google. Yeah, it's interesting. I saw a post from Mashanella earlier today and it's like old media versus new media in marketing today and I'm like, yes, yes, yes, And he had se O under their as old media and I was like, well, you know, if you can do it right, and if you can do it where you move the lever enough, We're all about everything he categorized as new media, organic social, you know, taking advantage of new channels. We tried Clubhouse before it flamed out. Really for for B two B we've got people active on TikTok. Obviously we're big on podcasting. And I'm like, yes, everything about new media, but wait, there are some things in the unquote old media that can still be big levers. If you do them the right way, and I think that's something we're gonna touch on here. So it has been really enlightening for me as well. As James described our journey in looking at our self reported attribution and kind of looking at it through that lens of old media versus new media. Wish I would agree with matt On for the most part and what he posted this morning on LinkedIn you The question isn't what is the most successful marketing channel? It's what is your most successful marketing channel? And I think that is important to think about because you could double down on just about any channel, get really smart about how you do it, and you could start to see success there. But when we ask, the majority said organic search. So I'm looking at the numbers, and again granted there's been some time since this was done, but organic social was like five point six percent of our results compared to on organic search, and so that social is awesome, it's wonderful. But when you're thinking about your streng rategy and what you want to double down on, I still think there's a lot to be said about organic search. I would say the key results from our findings, organic search was overwhelmingly more popular than any other answer, and several of our respondents actually did list multiple channels because they're not just focusing on organic search like Logan, I'm glad you said that because you can see results in multiple places and it's not like old verse new. Don't pick anything in the old category only goes a new Like if you're seeing success somewhere, you should continue that while also venturing into those newer things, which we are are totally doing and we're we're evangelizing that right. Yeah, and it's also true which maths comment back to my comment was, yeah, but most teams have to pick a few otherwise they're not gonna be able to do multiple channels well if they have this mixture of old media and new media, which goes back to the previous episode we did in this series on focus being the biggest struggle for most marketing teams. Again, like you just said there, Benji, was one of the things we talked about in that episode is you've got to prioritize what's working and then stack those and then decide where you draw the line. Right, there are some new media things we're not going to get to. There are some things old media that are still driving results and maybe s e O and organic search is still above the line. Okay, we're gonna do that, and we're also going to have a phenomenal podcasting strategy at the same time. Yeah, when you bucket our strategy, I think you would go like where we are still prioritizing search organic search. We definitely prioritize organic social, and I would I would put podcasting in on that one. And then when I'm looking at the rest and going, we're testing paid search or paid like LinkedIn ads, so it's still paid social, I guess, but those would be like the three Is there anything I'm missing their James, anything you would add. Yeah, we also tested paid search, so we started running Google ads recently to really not great results. We're gonna turn down that spend and turn up our spend on paid social,...

...specifically paid LinkedIn, because we we are starting to see some some early indicators that we're having some success with paid social, but paid search for whatever reason, has not moved the needle for us. I think We've been running it for about three or four months, and so I think with a lot of people running to search when the stuff that's happening in the recession started happening. Chris Walker was saying this, I mean, he was like, everybody is going to go into captured demand channels, and and search is obviously a captured demand channel. Where you should be investing is creating that demand, and so that we're we're trying to create that demand with our paid social strategy on LinkedIn as well as our organic social strategy. It's interesting because I'm just reading through all the numbers here, so I'll just list it all off one more time. Organic search, paid search was thirteen, virtual events and webinars, direct email was nine percent, paid social five six, organic social five point six. And it jumped out at me being in this you know, B two B growth podcast space, how many of the things on this list could be driven If driven by the fact that you have a podcast, you could create virtual events because you have community there. Yeah, you classified podcasting as organic social, but I think podcasting is really more about your content strategy overall. It's how you create the content that actually fuels all of the distribution, and so you could think about it in a lot of different ways. I actually heard an episode this morning on Christopher Lockhead's podcast, Lockhead of Marketing, and he was talking about this idea of content free marketing. And I was actually telling Emily on our team about this this morning on our one oh one, But he said, so many, so many brands. It's over a billion dollar industry, the content marketing industry. Um, I want to say he said something like seventy one billion. It was like an insane number. I could be off on that, so don't quote me. But they talked about how big the industry is and how much of the industry are these tools that help you with distribution of content. But the problem is that these brands are putting out what he calls this content free marketing. What they're saying lacks substance. They're just they're dribbling on, cobbling together what everybody else is saying, and trying to make it sound like it's their own thought and it's and it's this unique take. And the reality is it's like they're just using buzzwords and jargon and and dribbling on nothing that's actually going to transform the way someone thinks it's it's definitely not going to give somebody an unfair advantage in the work that they do. And so I think the way you look at whether it's podcast or or YouTube or whatever content that you're creating that you're saying, this is gonna be our pillar content. You've you've got to put an enormous amount of thought into what what goes like, what's the hook, what's the angle? What are you trying to say because the distribution of that doesn't really matter if if there's no substance. And what you're saying, So I love that is flockhead is so like minded in the way we think about that as well. Yeah, that's a good distinction that you made there too, because it really isn't like podcasting isn't really organic social. It's about strategy of how like they could fit into so many of these Let's go to some key findings that we're drawing from these results, and I'll go first here. But I think the main one and this is like the no brainer that will kick us off with. But if you're a B two B marketing leader and you want to know what channel your peers and your competitors are focused on, it is still organic search, Like there are definitely a plenty of players there, and I we thought it was interesting because when we asked another question on this survey, we had asked if you could ask one question to a hundred of your peers and B two B marketing leadership, one question, what would you ask them? And the most popular answer was around organic search strategy. So people are still actively thinking on this and going, Okay, what's the best way to do...

...this? And uh that to me when you think old way, new way, logan to just keep using that language. It's like you can call it old way, but clearly there's people thinking and dreaming up new ways to do it. I think Benji to one thing that I've I've heard, Oh bed On, I've not blanket on his last name right now, but he works at a marketing agency called client Boost, and he does all kinds of creative content on LinkedIn. And one of his points of view is that content marketing does not equal blogging, like content marketing is so much more than just writing blog posts. But even I've I've seen some of the Folks and Animals, which are like one of the most incredible like blog writing agencies in the world. They position themselves as a content marketing agency, but really what they're really good at is writing blog posts. So when you see folks from the Animals team talking about content marketing, what they're really talking about is organic search. They're talking about writing blog posts that end up ranking for these keywords. So it's so much in our in our language as marketers, because HubSpot did such a brilliant job of building the inbound the category of inbound marketing, we just we talk about it like they are one thing. We talk about content marketing and blogging as if they are the same thing. The reality is there that they're not. And I think you're seeing more modern marketers step into the game, like Chris Walker, like like Dave Gearhardt. You're seeing folks like Emily Brady on our team really start to stretch the boundaries of what modern content marketing looks, like Todd Klauss Refined Labs. You're seeing a lot more creativity and the content that's being created, and that's really exciting. But it also makes sense to me why so many of the marketers we talked to are curious about organic search, because I think it gets conflated with content marketing in general. There is that correlation to a similar one I I saw recently was I was like, Hey, everybody's talking about building a media company and not a marketing team. What you need is former journalists or at least people with journalistic skills. And a lot of people pushed back and they're like, oh, it's not just about writing. I was like, I didn't just say writing journalism. There's interviewing, their storytelling. There's research their story finding, right, maybe a cooler way to say research. And those are all the skills that make up, you know, the things that I was exposed to in in journalism school. But so often people think, oh, journalism, that means copyrighting, that means like a reporter, right, And some people are like, oh, no, we don't need CNN and Fox News. Hankerson B two B marketing. I'm like, that's not what I'm talking about. It was just interesting that that tying those two together when yes, they were talking about elements of journalism, but that wasn't the whole thing. Same thing with organic search not being the whole thing of content marketing. It is a it is a part of it. It's kind of like going back to asking people, are content marketing and inbound marketing synonymous or is one subset of the other. You get all sorts of different answers on that too. I would agree. We do not need Fox and CNN coming into B two B marketing. I'm cool with that, but that's not even what we're talking about. So just grasp that. I think there's such a need for like innovation in how we think. And because social was growing at the same time that blogging was growing, people thought about them like, oh, we have our content people over here in blog world, and we have people that are exploring Facebook and Instagram. But they were so young and they were babies that people didn't think about that as content. And now we're in the merger where it's like, well TikTok is where how people are searching, and it's like all this endless thinking and I'm grateful for all those the people that have put thought behind it, seeing the merging happening and doing shows like this where we're talking about it because there's categories that are being redefined and thought of, and like in real time, we're making those pivots happen. So it makes sense how we were separate and now we're coming together. Yeah, and one of those things that evolved, and I think this was a point in Matt's post I mentioned earlier,...

...or maybe it was somewhere else. But as the rise of blogging and the rise of social happened, it was like, oh, well, social is your tool to drive people to your blog because your blog is where they convert. No, that is now no longer working right for a number of reasons user behavior. People don't want to be on a platform and be driven over here because they have other posts that they can consume that are entertaining them or educating them without having to follow the link to go to your blog or sign up for your webinar or attend your virtual event. And so that evolution, I think is really important. We used to see social as a way to promote people back to your blog to actually consume the content, because that was the way the original inbound funnel worked. No longer, you have to optimize for delivering content on each channel. It doesn't mean that it can't work with your blog strategy. We have some massive blog posts that perform really well on organic search. We can break those up in a hundred different ways. Emily can do a funny TikTok video breaking down how not to do podcast intros on this one blog post where we breakdown doing podcast intros well that performs really well on our gimmicks search but the purpose of that video isn't to drive people to that blog, right, but they are working together but in a different way than they did before. It's a great renegotiation in our minds because even allowing yourself to take a blog post repurpose it over on LinkedIn, not even linked to the blog post, but just have written content or create a video off of that. Like, we're ten steps ahead right now and what we're saying compared to where most B two B companies are are at. I literally was talking to waltz Are, one of our producers here at sweet Fish this morning on Mike Club, about this very thing logan that you're hitting on. It's just we have to realize it's not just about like redistributing content or saying the same thing over and over again. It's like this thing also in forms this thing that we're doing. We can talk about it again over here, we can try it in a different format, and like the more creative you get there around some key core messages than you're informing your ideal clients in a number of ways. I love that we pulled out a few more key findings Logan, what was what was something that stood out to you from this research. I thought it was interesting that the prioritization on organic search. I think one of the things behind that is that it can be a short term investment that has compounding ur o I. So that sounds very jargony and buzzworthy, but like to break that down into an actual application. James mentioned that earlier, about a year year and a half ago, we identified some keywords we wanted to rank four. We used methodology called Google Alphabet soup, where we actually try to write better than what is currently on page one, not looking necessarily at all the tactical elements that most people prioritize in their SEO and organic search strategies, but looking at how do we write something that is better for a human that would click on this, What would make them click on this? Did they not provide enough examples? Did they not expand enough? Was there something that's outdated that we can update right? And I don't know how many, but it was. It was a handful of keywords that we targeted. We spent some time writing those blog posts. Eventually they ranked after a few weeks, a few months, and they're still driving organic search in the way that people are finding us today, and I would say that even though, as James said earlier, organic searches driving a lot of inbound there's not a lot that we're doing day to day right now to maintain and grow that organic search. Now, will those of those blog posts that are ranking stay there forever? No, we know that, but it can be kind of this, all right, let's put some effort here for a quarter and then we'll reap the rewards for a while while we prioritize some other things, some of those new media things that were doing podcasting and TikTok and and other things. So that that's something that I think other marketing teams are seeing and why...

...probably organic search is still in the mix because you can have this all right, let's put some time here and then we'll see some long tail kind of slow burn results over time. Yeah, that's that's a big one. I like that, Logan and James, any thoughts. There are other key findings that stick out to you? Yeah. The thing that stick out to me, I mean it just just how much these marketers are investing in organic search. There is several respondents in this research that we did that said that they devoted over half of their resources to organic search, which is really really interesting. I think it doubles down on what Logan was saying that it's an evergreen channel you can write. You know, we focused a lot of effort for about six months to a year on ranking for some very specific keywords related to be to be podcasting, and here we are, you know, several months a year plus later on some of these articles. They're still driving highly qualified traffic to our site to find us. And so I think when you look at organic traffic, not just from a I think a lot of people crap on it because, oh, it's transactional. People are only using Google to find these transactional things. But you can. People are using Google to find transactional answers to questions that they have. But you can, and we're gonna touch on a little bit this of this later in the episode, but you can use that transactional need that someone has whenever they go to Google searching for something, and if you can deliver a page to them that answers that transactional question but also treats them like a human and inject your brand, your voice into that search result, it's gonna be a lot stickier we're gonna get into some I think some more specific things that you can do to humanize these articles that you're writing specifically to rank on search. But yeah, that was that was my key finding is is just marketers are spending a lot of money and a lot of resources in this strategy, and they wouldn't be doing that if it weren't working. I don't think, Man, it's interesting. I want to get to two remedies in a second, but I want to have a quick discussion before we just jump into Okay, what do we do as a results of this, and just we can split ball some ideas. But when you think of organic search, James, informing the content that you create, what are some of the first things that come to mind? Like, oh, this is because we were talking about podcasting earlier. We'll probably talk about that and in the remedy section as well, But like, there's a million different ways people can think of organic search informing content. What are the ways that that immediately jump out to that you see as as interesting right now? Yeah, So, I mean Logan mentioned Google off for that super earlier. Essentially, what that is is you go to Google and you use Google Auto suggest to tell you what people are actually searching for. So if we were to put in, you know, B two B podcasting and then we you know, hit the space bar and then hit the letter A, it would be like B two B podcasting agencies, B two B podcasting assessment, B two B podcasting analytics. And so that's telling us. Google is literally telling us what people are searching for. And there's this big movement right now, at least on LinkedIn of people you know, talking about talk to your customers. Talk to your customers, talk to your customers. It's one of those things that we we as marketers, we know we should be doing that, but for whatever reason, we don't want to. It's hard, like it's not necessarily something that comes naturally to a lot of people. But this strategy of using Google alphabet soup, using Google's auto suggest you're effectively doing that. Google is telling you what your prospective customers are searching for, what questions do they want you to answer? And from a content marketing perspective, if your goal is not to be the most helpful resource on the Internet for solving the problems that your customers are trying to solve, as it relates to what you do then something about your kind of marketing strategy is probably broken. And so I think leveraging Google auto suggests specifically to tell you what pains are people feeling and are they trying to solve with a transactional Google Search result that I think...

...has a massive impact in informing the content that you that you actually create. It might start with a blog post, but you can create a wide variety of of new media based on the fact that you have this insight now that hey, there's a lot of people searching for you know this this particular thing. Logan any thoughts on things you want to see people try, Like does your curiosity get peaked at all when you go all right, like, what would be the kind of content we could create to help our organic search? What type of content we could create? I mean, it's been interesting the types of things that you see come up in those Google auto suggests. And I've seen people say like, oh, that doesn't seem all that scientific. I use this tool on that tool, and like why wouldn't you go straight to the source? Right, Like Google's job, their entire mission is to make the Internet more searchable. They want to connect be like that's how they make their money, right, it it's on advertising, but the way they deliver on that is getting people from what they want to something that answers the question right. And so to me it's been interesting. I think there's an opportunity for a lot of teams to use that Google alphabet suit methodology to make their their organic search drive better content because it's not Hey, this report of of these keywords that some tool has spent out and says right, because I've seen that. Who was I think it was rand Fishkin a spark Toro was saying, like, uh, these numbers from Google Analytics, I'm not real sure these you know, numbers about what traffic is coming here. I take those with a grain of salt and right. And he's saying, takes something from Google with a grain assault, And I'm saying, take this from Google, not with as big a grain assault. So maybe there's a problem with that, But I'm not saying from their from their data set. I'm saying, just go there as a user right where they're trying to off for things up based on what other people are searching. And so to me, I think there's an opportunity for people to create more of the right content for their audience using this methodology with Google alphabet soup and looking at Google Auto suggest and you know, we're not crazy. I've seen other marketers I really respect, like Gitano dinnerdy uh say. You know, scroll to the bottom and look at the section on Google that says people also searched for right and create content around those suggested additional questions. Because Google is doing that for a reason, because there's volume there with the rise of short form video to I know, Google is getting on board with like putting some videos at the top of your search and like so you could see also how people have created content in different mediums around these topics, which I think is super helpful. Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because that's probably a better answer to your first question of what new types of content could people create. YouTube is pushing shorts right now because they are trying to keep up with with TikTok and Instagram reels, and you know, there may be arguably a little bit late to that short form video game. But if you're going to search and Google wants to give you stuff on their platform with YouTube shorts, then maybe you should think about some of those questions that you've been answering in your blog posts that are aimed at organic search. Create short form videos, put those on your YouTube channel, and see if those drive some As Google starts to put the YouTube shorts higher up in search trick on the first page of the search results, it might be a conversation for a different day. But you've got to think about the fact that YouTube is owned by Google and they are easily the biggest competitor to TikTok at this point, and they're figuring out ways to pull shorts out a long form video that are already on their platform, so they are by far the biggest competitor to TikTok, Like forget about Instagram. YouTube shorts is has so much potential because of how much video YouTube already has. And if...

YouTube as a platform figures out how to repurpose it and then make it searchable on Google. I mean, that's a that's a completely different shift and in mindset that we should be thinking about. As I know people listening are going we gotta make video content. We're thinking about podcasting, We're thinking about all these new things, these creative things. That's a really one that I would advocate for it to be thinking on all right, let's go to two remedies here, recommendations based on the results we've seen here talking about organic search, and James all throw it over to you first. What's what's a remedy? What's a recommendation based on the results. Yeah, So, seeing these results and seeing how many marketers are investing in organic search, it just makes me think that you should be using the traffic that is coming to your site for these pages that you've written content to rank for specific keywords on and obviously deliver what they deliver, that answer, deliver what it is that the searcher is is looking for. But I also think you should be thinking creatively about how instead of just capitalizing that attention in that one moment, be thinking about how you can drive that that user, that searcher to other channels where you're creating maybe longer form content, you're creating video content, Maybe you're really push You know, your your CEO puts out really incredible content on LinkedIn, you might be doing some stuff on TikTok. Think about how you can drive people to other channels where they can subscribe, follow what you're doing that isn't reliant on them needing to find you from a search result. So if you're you know, you've got your list of keywords, be thinking about, like how can I get somebody to subscribe to our YouTube channel on this post and figure out how to integrate that. The blog post itself doesn't need to be about a specific you know, video that you put on YouTube or a specific episode that you published for your podcast, but you can, I think, in an organic way, reference these other media channels that you're building. And if folks get value from the content that you've created on that blog post, they are likely gonna want to consume your content on other channels. And so I think that's a smart way to leverage the attention that you can get through organic search and disseminate that attention, get that attention onto other platforms where you're also investing resources to create content, and it took to help you build community across multiple channels. Yeah, there's so much there. I wonder like how you would want to set that up, Like James, in a perfect world, Let's say someone clicks on one of our what we've been using blog posts as are example, Right, we did the alphabet soup, we created this blog, it hits home, it gives some answers to the searcher. You're let's say you're the searcher James, and you're going down and you're looking at this blog. What what would you think you could put in there? It's just like subscribe to our YouTube channels are a unique way you would do it. Like what what would you advocate for? Yeah, there's if there's a specific thing that I talked about and one of the points that was related to a particular episode on the show or a video that we did for YouTube, that's obviously like a natural way to to connect to it. But then I also think you could just like, like I've seen some really well designed almost like banner ads. I know people are are desensitized to that a little bit. But because you're not selling a product, you're selling like you're selling content. I mean, you're you're trying to get awareness to other content assets. I think you could you could do some inlaid banner ads within or a banner ad singular. You probably don't want to put too many in there that would point people to another resource, So I think something visually that pops and that stands out could be really effective there as well as uh, natural kind of links throughout the content. You've got to be aware though that people when they're reading your that blog post, especially if they came there because they're trying to fulfill a transactional need that they have their skimming and so you've got to be really thoughtful about That's why I say something visual that pops out and that really stands out,...

...because if someone's just scrolling, they're they're probably scrolling through a lot of your back links to other things. Also like embedding YouTube video I mean that's nothing nothing new. Like obviously embedding YouTube videos into your blog posts when they're relevant and helpful, are going to help. But maybe visually calling something out either above a bellow the video to get people to subscribe to your YouTube channel as opposed to just embedding the videos. So those are a couple of ideas there, Loogan, what would you say around remedies recommendations based on these findings, Yeah, I would say, you know, if you are going to try and see results with organic search, you cannot optimize for the algorithm over being human and trying to create content that resonates. You know, as I mentioned previously with our blonging strategy, when we think about how are we going to create something that outranks what's currently on the first page Google for the keywords that we're targeting. We are looking at how well does the do the results that are currently on the first page of Google answer the question and provide value to the human who typed in that keyword. And if that is driving your strategy with organic search, you're going to see better results. Obviously, there are SEO best practices, and there are things that you need to to keep in mind and super technical stuff like page load speed and those sorts of things. And I'm not saying throw that all out, but if if that's all your team or your SEO agency is thinking about, and then you read it and you're like, well, I would not want to read this, then in my opinion, there's a huge miss there, because if you think about reverse engineering, how can I answer this question better while covering the basis of technically what you need to do to have that piece of content rank in search, that is a much better way to approach it. And so you've got to prioritize being human and the content resonating and answering the question possibly entertaining. However, you know, you think about that for your niche and then the technical aspects of of s c O. I think that structure of priorities is going to lead to much greater results, much better content, and much greater results and your organic search efforts. Yeah, I think on that one, like the prioritization of content that resonates, it just has to be infused back in in some way, like, yes, you're still looking to rank, Yes you want to be high in search. But we use the example on a episode. I can't even tell you how long ago it was, but I ran a marathon in December, and we talked about how, like if I search for tips for running a marathon, the entire first page of Google Organic search is the exact same blog article on ten different websites. Now, their goal might be slightly different because they probably have ads that they're running, and so it kind of was like a win for them just to be on the first page whatever. But like, if you think about how much commodity content is in that page, it's it's literally it's the same same bullet points, so same ten steps, drink water, stretch right exactly, yes, and it's all white noise. I couldn't tell you any of those brands, and then there's probably gonna be a company that's great at marketing, like a Nike, who could say almost the same thing, but give you an entertainer doing it, put it in video form, and it looks like they could do it right and they could add just enough of their point of view to where it it wins. And I remember their brand because they actually figured out a way to resonate and they figured out a way to be slightly different while giving the answer that people want and the answer that people need. So that's a that's a big one, James, anything you want to throw in on this point, because I feel like this is is one we definitely harp on a lot because it's it's necessary to Yeah, it's in the other parts of the research that we did we actually found I think it was the question that...

...we we asked around, like what's an underrated B two B marketing tactic? And something that people said pretty overwhelming. I don't know if it was the number one answer for this, but it was alarming to see how many people said it. They said, it's underrated to be more human and so you know, it's things like writing like you talk and not taking yourself too, seriously, not feeling like you've got to be buttoned up informal in the way that you communicate externally. And so I think that matters here. I mean it with with organic search, Um, you have this massive opportunity if you can rank for a particular keyword to get ongoing traffic coming to your site. But if they're coming to your site and there's nothing memorable there, even if it did answer the question, I think Google's obviously gotten pretty good about you know, They're not gonna let you get to page one if you're not if you're not delivering the goods right like, if you're not actually answering the question, Google is not gonna put you there. So you've gotta be doing something right to get there. But I think can we take it to the next level creatively and go, Okay, once we have this attention on our site, what can we do that is next level to to humanize our brand, to to make people have affinity for our brand? How can we get people to really like us and not just get what they came to get and bounce off. Yeah. Ultimately, what we're saying like this is a good reminder that you look for search or intent, you try to align to that, and then you bring We talked about this in the last time we got together, guys, but like having a brand voice doc that shows like this is what makes us unique, this is our outlook on the world. You bring that brand voice to the table as well, and search or intent plus that, like, that's that's the sweet spot, the one I wanted to highlight two from these findings, I just was reminded over and over again, probably because I live in B two B growth world and in podcast world, like podcasting is a fantastic organic search driver. And there's some ways that we've apped into this, and there's some ways even as a podcast agency, that we could be better at this. And you think of link building, I think of guest appearances where we're giving the embed code for that episode to our guests and they're putting it on their website. That's fantastic sharing your unique p o V in a video, but then having that as an audio format, having that is written copy that then people can search for and they'll find not just the long form article blog you wrote, but they now have a link where they can hear your voice, they can see your face increased impressions. You're using podcast content in other formats. So we have this conversation and then it becomes a linked in text post or it becomes what There's a million different ways that podcasting can be an organic search driver, and that excites me that like to just think through how people can use this as a as a strategy to aligned to search intent. Know, the type of content that your your ideal customer, your ideal client wants. They're searching for their pain, and then you're creating it. You're making it highly personal like Logan was talking about, and you're infusing your brand voice like this is the medium to do it. That's that's my takeaway. I mean, for a bit there, Benji, we even used Google off of that soup to actually drive what podcast topics should be. So going going to Google, putting in particular keywords related to, you know, some of what our clients did, and then going okay, that's clearly something people are interested in. And then that informed that was the editorial stret I mean that that informed the content calendar and like what episodes we actually created for their show. And so while you're also creating an article that you know is going to rank you're simultaneously creating rich media. Can I just say this as we wind down the conversation, I have slack open and I just saw a new inbound booking with one of our sales folks, And how did you hear about us online search? Very timely and very fitting. We...

...almost don't need an outro. We should just end it right there. I love it. Thanks for sharing that, Logan. Well. We hope that this has been an insightful conversation. I know I continue to learn a lot from this. I love seeing the results from this research and getting to break it down here on B two B Growth. If you ever have a question, if you want to reach out talk to us, you can search for James Logan myself over on LinkedIn and we would appreciate a conversation with you. And uh we'll be back next week with another one of these original research episodes. Thanks for listening, everybody, and keep doing work that matters. We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need to have on the show, reach out email me Benji dot Block at sweet fish media dot com. I look forward to hearing from you.

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