B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2044 · 6 months ago

The Downfall of Marketers' Obsession with New

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Timmy Bauer talks with Adam Wooley, Senior Director of Global Growth and Marketing Ops at Hublio. 

Yeah, welcome everybody back to anotherepisode of GDP Growth. I'm one of the hosts here, timmy Bauer, I'm thecontent strategist and today I'm talking with Adam Woolley, he's theSenior Director of Life Cycle and Marketing Operations at House Call Pro.Before that he worked at Crazy and we were just talking about this thing, sohe's saying what he's seen multiple times in multiple places is the brandteam product marketing, everyone is getting involved to craft the perfectvalue prop that's going to get plastered all over the homepage and thecampaign that's going to go with it. And Adam, let me let you take it fromthere. What was the point that you were saying? Yeah, what I was getting at isyou sort of will have this huge cross functional effort to put hours, days,weeks into crafting the perfect kind of top level value prop message to put infront of all of your marketing that trickles down into the sales scripts,the sales enablement materials sort of all over the place. And then what I'veseen multiple places is the next quarter or six months later, there willbe, well we need to have a new campaign and we're gonna wipe everything cleanand come up with a brand new idea and it starts all the way back at groundzero with brainstorming and feedback from the customer teams and sort ofeverybody wants a voice and you kind of just push all the old stuff that youspent weeks and weeks building to the side and start fresh and that willhappen over and over again as frequent s quarterly. In our last conversation,you said that you think there is this borderline psychotic obsession withnewness and freshness, what what do you mean by that? I think that's probablydriven just by how consumers consume media. So like everything is new andfresh continuously. Netflix is releasing a movie a week or whateverthis year, there's so much content...

...everywhere you can't possibly consumeat all. And I think from a content marketing perspective and certainlyfrom an entertainment perspective that makes a lot of sense, but when you'retalking about the branding of your business and sort of the key messagesthat are informing all of your other marketing and sales, communicationdecisions, I think it doesn't translate as well because what you end up doingis rather than sort of looking at the data and analyzing what's working andwhat's not and just sort of iterating on different variations of the coremessage, you kind of throw all that out and start from scratch and put a hugeamount of effort into totally new messaging because you think it's gottabe fresh and different and you're kind of reinventing the wheel over and overagain. How often does this happen? How many times has this happened in yourcareer? I would say at multiple companies, it would happen at a minimumevery six months and sometimes every quarter. Can you give me some specificexamples or as specifically as you can get? Sure. So when I when I was atCrazy relatively early on and part of this was because Presi talks to a tonof different audiences, but we cycled through a different key messagemultiple times. Presi started an education and the initial message wasall about sharing ideas more effectively because that's what theeducation vertical wanted. When did crazy start started when? What year?Mid to early 2000s? Yeah. And it started, it started in Hungary was hugein education when international. And then moved into kind of the businessspace, which is where it's bread and butter is now. But so initially it wasall about students and teachers sharing ideas, kind of what you saw in college.And then as we moved into into the business space, there was kind of amore global, be a better be a great presenter, be a better presenter, andit was all about the tool would empower...

...you to be a more effective presenter.And then people wanted to change that, we needed something more businesses. Soafter we pushed out all to be a great presenter messaging than it became,well, effectively share complex ideas and I was sort of all about helpingbusiness people share complex and boring ideas and and then that kind ofgot thrown out and it was all about being more engaging and getting youraudience to engage with your content. And this certainly isn't unique topresent at all. But all of it was sort of driven by that. Well, it's beenthree months and we're going to launch a big integrated campaign. We need atotally new set of language and sort of key messaging angles and how big of aproject is it to overhaul that. I mean if you're really doing it top to bottom,it's a pretty big project because all of a sudden kind of, all of theexecutives are involved because they all feel strongly about how the brandsbeing communicated. All of your brand marketers. Pr the copyrighting teamsinvolved, the sales team and sales enablement people if you have them areall involved because you want to update sales scripts to match what you'resaying in all of marketing, the lifecycle, marketing and the demand genteam are then need to update all the ad, copy the graphic design teams workingaround the clock to support that. So it's just sort of a huge sort of multiteam, cross functional effort kind of spanning tons of assets. And at the endyou get to show all these awesome new assets, but you also spent weeks andweeks and weeks doing this and then only after you launch it, maybe you getto see whether it has to be effective, the desired effect, it actually performbetter than the old messaging. Maybe, maybe not. What do you think should bedone instead? What should be the practice instead? I think it'simportant to do that kind to go through that kind of effort in that motion,particularly driven by things like product marketing and sort of nail yourmessaging. I think when you want to...

...overhaul it all or change it, there aremuch faster ways to sort of smoke, test it kind of more like a product teamwould, where don't build an entirely new product to see if you have productmarket fit, Like what's the minimum viable way that you can quickly testsomething on the marketing side. Like You can throw up 50 different versionsof a digital ECM ad and see which ones performed the best really quickly justto test, like does this language work better than that language. And evenwith sales, if you have a couple of really talented sdrs or accountexecutives, you can pluck a couple of them and give them four differentvariations of a script to try out and get qualitative feedback from the salesreps what seems to be resonating best on the phone? Same thing with email.Like it's another tool where if you have a sizable email database, you cankind of very quickly with minimal effort, test multiple versions of thecopy in an email or subject lines and see what's resonating best with youraudience before you go through the effort of completely overhauling thekey messaging source of truth and trickling it down through the entirerest of the company. That seems to just make a lot of sense. Why do you thinkmost companies don't think this way? I think most companies do think this way,and it's just sort of, they get a little bit blind because there's also alot of pressure on marketing teams to like make a big splash and havesomething big and shiny that they can show off whether it's at board meetingsor executive team meetings or on podcast interviews or with in customermarketing. So I think there's a lot of pressure on a marketing team to be like,okay, well here's what you did last quarter. How much, how much does thatkind of stuff tend to matter because I know I never get excited by that kindof stuff when I see a company overhaul their key messaging, I think it doesn'tmatter anywhere near as much as people...

...think. Like, it's almost like they'rejust making a big to do about nothing, not nothing, because, like, changingyour message, I'm not trying to say that changing your messaging is notimportant. I believe that wholeheartedly, but for example, Idon't invite people on this podcast to talk about their company's messaging,nobody cares about that. You're not on this podcast to talk about yourcompany's messaging, you're on this podcast because as a marketer you'vegot expertise to share. Totally. Exactly. And I'm not sure who, who issuper interested. I mean, again, I think a lot of it comes down topressure to feel like you have something to show and sort of did a biga big department wide cross functional effort. I think certainly any timethere's new leadership, there's pressure to come in and like show theimpact you're having quickly. I think it's also, to be honest, for a lot ofmarketers, it's fun right? Like if you're going to reinvent the messagingfrom the top to the bottom and involve everybody, the brainstorming fund thecoming up with all of the different design boxes, fun sort of designconcepts. Like it's kind of a fun project to work on. It's just if you'redoing it all the time, it's probably not going to return the R. O. I. Thatyou're hoping for. But there are some big fun project. As a marketer, you'reprobably brainstorming outside the box ideas to engage your prospects andcustomers working remotely. And you've probably thought about sending themdirect mail to break through the zoom fatigue. But how do you shippersonalized gifts to remote decision makers? When you have no idea wherethey're sitting at BBB growth. We use the craft and platform to send hyperpersonalized gifts to anyone working from anywhere. Crafting makes it easyfor your prospects and customers to pick and personalize their own gift inreal time and offers highly secured data capture. So decision makers feelcomfortable submitting their home...

...addresses for shipping purposes to getyour own personalized craft and gift. Go to craft um dot io slash growth toschedule a demo and receive a complimentary personalized gift fromcraft. Um to claim your personalized gift, go to craft um dot io slashgrowth. I want to understand why it's not just a bunch of ego stroking. Whatare the benefits of doing it? I know that you have to change your messagingto fit whatever it is you're now focusing on. Yeah, I think certainlyYou need to find messaging that resonates with your audience mosteffectively and I think that's the part that I 100 and that's what I thinkthat's what's driving these efforts, but just the, the execution kind ofgets muddied because it seems like, well if we're going to change ourmessaging, it should be, we got to change it across the board. Otherwisewe have inconsistent messaging and inconsistencies. How do you convinceyour leaders? Let's say I'm in that place right where it's like, all right,we're going to change our messaging and now I'm trying to say like, hey,instead of us just making a big splash and doing our absolute total overhaulabout this new messaging, let's instead test this out and iterative lee worktowards whatever the true best messaging is, it seems like I'm notgoing to be in a great position in that conversation. Like that seems like itwould be. You tell me, how does somebody have that conversation? Yeah,I mean, I think the way the way that I've had that conversation previouslyand what seems to be the most effective is sort of coming with one coming withdata, which is almost cliche in our industry at this point, but also comingwith proposed solutions. So rather than saying, I don't think we should do amajor effort, you can say, well let's test it lightweight with minimal effortfirst and then what are some of your favorite go? Two ways of testing this.I mean, I think the easiest our digital...

...advertising and email and they'recertainly dependent on if you're going to test it with digital advertising,you need to have an ad budget. But if you have a relatively sizable ad budgetand that's a channel that works for you. It's really, really low effort to testdifferent messaging, even different visual concepts very quickly in adsbefore you change anything else. And then the same thing with email. If youhave a sizable email list, it's really easy to mock up four different versionsof email and sort of on one of them, change the copy on the other one,changed the look and feel and just see which of those is producing betterresults. You certainly have to be a little bit careful with what metricsyou're looking at. So if you're only changing the email and not the pagesthat get clicked through to. And same with ads, If you're only changing thedisplay ads or the ECM copy, you need to make sure you're not going tomeasure something all the way down at the bottom of the funnel. You're kindof measuring the top of funnel differences, sort of the leadindicators. Yeah, because that's what you're really impacting. Well, this isgood adam, so, just piggybacking off of what you're saying, my question is, howdoes somebody do what you're suggesting? Like how does somebody who islegitimately trying to do what you're suggesting? Screw it up? I think takingtoo long, like all of its around speed to execute for that kind of testing. Ifyou if you're trying to make the argument to your Ceo or your CMO thatyou should test out this new messaging quickly, they're going to say yes,because you're offering to do it quickly and get them a result, whichcan inform them the large project they want to they want to kick off if youthen been three weeks iterating on copy and and designs before launchinganything all of a sudden they might as well have kicked off their majorproject and they're not, they're not going to trust you the next time thatyou're kind of like, oh, just let me test it first. I think the other pieceis, if you want to use data as your...

...argument, you legitimately need to makesure that you can come up with a sample size and KPI that will actually giveyou a statistically significant result. So I can't say, well, let me test thenew value props in digital advertising but then go out and spend a couple $100and Have 30 clicks on my ads. I won't have anything to show for it. What doyou think you need? At least it depends a lot on kind of, the size of theeffect. But you, you want to be looking at kind of, the size of your list andthe size of your audience. If you're testing something an email and yourengagement rates are relatively low, you're probably, you need tens ofthousands of recipients, that kind of thing. Certainly on advertising, youcan sort of just spent until you get the result that you get some kind ofresult in either direction. Yeah, this is going to really reveal my ignorancehere. But every time I've seen messaging, like big sweeping messagingchanging, it always seems to be a top down thing, not a bottom up thing wherewhat you're proposing feels a little more bottom up, it feels more like, hey,let's try this out on these channels and see if it's better and then we'llapply it like you're sort of on the ground doing work to discover what thebest messaging is so that it can change everything. Whereas every time I'veseen messaging changing, it's like person at the top has a new vision andit's like, okay, we're changing everything. Yeah, I mean, I think, Ithink you're right. I think often, probably more often than not when it'sa top to bottom change in the brand look and all of a sudden the logo looksdifferent sort of everything changed. I think more of them than not. It is atop down thing. I think at the in the trenches, kind of front line level,there's way more of that quick iteration happening and it's much moredifficult to push it up because everybody sort of sees it as justperformance metrics, not as brand...

...changes. Is there a solution to that oris that just? That's just the way it is? I mean I think that kind of falls onmanagement and leadership like the solution there is for management andleadership to sort of be relentlessly interested in. Yeah. What is drivingimproved performance. So rather than just talking to the digital marketersand being like, oh it's great. This creative set is doing 20 better thanthe old creative set. Keep up the good work, recognizing that something isgoing on there and digging into it and then figuring out, okay, is this just atiny change that we don't really need to do anything with or is theresomething more here that's more actionable. And I think the same oncertainly on the sales side, I think that marketing management andleadership should be continuously interested in what is happening onsales phone calls and that's historically not something thatmarketing is deep in after maybe on boarding is spending a lot of time kindof listening in on sales calls and talking to front line sales reps andsort of hearing what, what is happening with those conversations. Yeah, adam,this has been a super interesting conversation. I really appreciate youdoing this with me. Where can listeners go to connect with you more? They canfind me on linkedin. That's probably the best, the best spot. That's where Ispend most of my time. I'm on twitter but I'm not doing much on there. So I'dsay track me down on linkedin. Are you posting a lot on linkedin? Not a lot,but a little bit because this is where my head's at now. Sorry, just be alittle aside as content strategist, I don't know if this needs to get cut outof the episode, but we always end every episode the same way we say, you know,how can listeners connect with you more and the answer is always the sameanswer. It's linked in. I'm starting to think like, hey listeners of a podcastknow that where you go to connect next is linked in. So I've been thinkinglike, should I end the episode instead with like, hey, this has been a greatconversation. How can listeners get more of this conversation from you? Andthen I don't know if that's like, adam,...

...you need to get posting or if you're onother podcasts or what I do think that's a better way to end the podcast.I'm not on other podcasts. But then in that case, you gotta post some contenton linkedin. I gotta put some content. I mean, the other thing is you can askthe question and I'll just say, well, get to me to have me back on aconversation. That's what you should do. Excellent. Excellent. Alright, thanksfor being on the podcast adam. It's been an awesome conversation. All right,Thanks man. Glad to be here. One of the things we've learned aboutpodcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, reallywell actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if you texted afriend to tell them about it. And if you send me a text with a screenshot ofthe text you sent to your friend meta. I know I'll send you a copy of my book,content based networking, How to instantly connect with anyone you wantto know. My cell phone number is 40749033-8. Happy texting mm.

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