Take A Fresh Look At What's Possible

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

 In this episode, Olivia Hurley talks to Kevin Tate, CMO at Clearbit.

Yeah. Hi everyone welcome back to be, to begrowth. My name is Olivia Hurley and today I am joined by kevin Tate, who isthe CMO at clear bit. Hi kevin, how you doing? Good, How are you? Thanks forhaving me. I'm doing well. I'm so excited to chat with you today. You aregoing to give me a crash course on supercharging. You're Martek stack,there's a lot there that we need to unpack. I've got a lot of questions andI'm super excited to break all that down. But before we dive into it, thereare a few things that I would expect influence the Martek stack and theutility of the said stack that I would love to get your thoughts on, does thatsound good? Yeah, that sounds great. Let's do it. Okay. So as you've said inthe last time we talked, the BdB landscape is changing. So the way thatyou described it to me is, you know, in the BBC world, um, people have certainexpectations when it comes to buying highly personalized, a lot of agencyability to do a lot of the research on your own. And they're bringing thatthose that set of expectations into the B two B space. And I'm curious how doesthat and how is that changing the buying process all together? Yeah, sure.It's a, it's a big and very, very timely topic and and I think theconsumer comparison is an apt one because we all know what it feels liketo be a consumer today, right? If I'm going to look for a new pair ofheadphones, which I have, I have a headphones thing. So I'm always likelooking at new headphones, but I would expect to be able to go and researchthat product and find that product available from lots of placespotentially and make that transaction without having to like fill out a formand and ask someone to talk to me more about the headphones if they have time.Right? I mean it sounds silly, but...

...there are things that we take forgranted in the immediacy and the way that the buying process comes to us asa consumer that have been really different in the B two B world. Andthat's not to say that that be to be buying is as simple as it can be on theconsumer side. But a lot of what is taking place in this current shifttoward more digital B to be buying looks a lot like consumer behavior.Right? So as a as a company that is trying to make products available orexplain the value of a solution and how it works, a lot more of that is nowtaking place on the website or in a chat window or in real time and less uhsort of offline and let me make an appointment with your salesperson untilI'm really, really serious about it. Right? So it changes the shape of that,of that buying. That's something that was already happening of course, as ashift. But the last year and a half of everyone being remote and and much lessopportunity to work together in person has has really accelerated it. That'sso interesting when we think of of those steps in the sales process and inthe research phase and B two B if if we were expected to do things like thatwith the headphones example, there's a couple of things that I thought of, onelike I don't want to sales pitch to, I just don't want to give my time likethat. And three, it's just extra steps and obviously those things were put inplace in the B two B space for a reason and they they're they're evolving andthat's a good thing. But it's just kind of funny to think like of course wedon't turn off our Btc expectations when we're in the it's not like we havea work for zona and then a a personal persona to that extent. So has thatknowledge impacted how you create content and how you market to yourbuyers or for your buyers. Yeah, Yeah. To a huge extent. So for clear butthere's sort of two pieces right?...

There's, you know, and for context,what clear bit provides is a is an intelligence platform that gives datato the company's marketing stack and lets it go to work and all thesedifferent customer touchpoints. So when I talk about what we're doing, I cantalk about what our customers are doing with clear bit and I can also talkabout what we're doing ourselves using clear bit. So in both cases, a lot ofit comes down to how do you use intelligence? Who is this customer?What are they looking for? What signals are they giving me? How do you use allthat to increase the speed and remove the friction from that interaction?Right. And and speed ends up being super important. Right? So, whensomebody is coming to figure out, all right, I've got a problem to solve. Whoare the companies who can solve that problem for me? And what's theirapproach and which one is right for me? I mean, think about the mindset you'rein when you're doing it just going site through site. Right? Trying to give you90 seconds tops what's going on here? And is this the right one and then onto the next one. And so for a company that's trying to understand when a goodfit customer is engaged in that kind of research and looking and and find thatopportunity to to talk with them or to give them what they want, figuring outhow to do that in seconds or even sub seconds is a part of the game now.Right. So take the filling out of a form. If someone gets to the pointwhere they go to your point, is that willing to give their time to say, Okay,I'm actually going to put time on my schedule to talk with someone you wantto make sure that that set a meeting form as as efficient and smart aspossible, right? You don't want to hit him with, oh 1st 17 questions. Who areyou again? And what's this about again? And what do you, you know? Andespecially if you're like, oh God, I read your e book and I watched yourwebinar and you don't even know who I am. Like, we're starting from scratch.Like that's a really tough feeling as a as a prospect. So you want to useeverything that you can to try to make...

...it easy for them to to quickly engage.And then once, once you are engaged with a customer, just try to remove anyobstacles, right? Help them friction in the funnel becomes a real, a realchallenge if it's hard for them to get the information they're looking for. Ifit's hard for them to navigate your product, it's hard for them to get asense of what your product does. So a lot of it is just making it easy forthe buyer. So I'm curious with knowing that there's a lot of people in thisresearch phase, especially in the way that we we assess potential purchasesin the B2B space. You've got probably a lot of traffic from people who are justresearching and don't have an intent to buy at this point. You are doingsomething really cool that I would love for you to unpack the mels. Yeah, themarketing engaged leads. Yeah, this is a this is our our acronym for forpeople who are in that stage, right? They've expressed interest. Maybe theyread one of our e books. Maybe they are using one of our free tools like theweekly visitor report. Maybe they've attended one of our webinars. Thatdoesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to spend time with us or or godeep on the product. It also doesn't necessarily mean that we are a companythat clear, but would be right for right? Where, you know, they may not beat that stage or may they may not may not be ready to take that step. So wewant to understand as much as we can about what they're doing and whatsignals are giving us so that we can help them find that path. But also keepthem on the radar, right? You might have, I don't know, a few 1000companies in your active pipeline, but you might have tens or hundreds ofthousands there in this sort of engaged uh stage. Right. And you're sort of,you know, still becoming friends. So how do you, how do you treat them asfriends and invite them to learn more...

...when it's time, but also when they doraise their hand and say, you know, I'd love to get a demo that you're rightthere. Right? So you're you're both, you're both kind of hanging back andletting them find their own path but instantly ready if they say, you know Ido, I would like to make time for this, this is a priority. And that's whatthat's tricky to do when you're talking about hundreds of thousands of people,even millions. Has that clarified having that category just for thosemarketing engaged leads? Has that clarified the rest of the plethora ofacronyms we have in the marketing re uh everybody I think has some some versionand probably some acronym of how do you look at at the top of the funnel or thehigh part of the funnel? And I think it just depends on, it depends on how yourarchitect in your motion. One of the really fun things about working atclear bit is you know, we end up being a part of our customers marketing stackand that's a part of how they are thinking about architect ng that funnel.Right. And so understanding from, from our customers, what's your version of amarketing engaged lead? And how do you put your BDR outbound motion next to it?And are you more like a a P. L. G. Company that's using product led growthto try to, to expand the footprint or do you have something more like a anaccount based motion like an A. B. M motion where you're trying to reach outand do more of an enterprise approach. Like we really want to understand allthat and the and the approach they take in the way they use data to improveacquisition and conversion and so on will come down to things like how doyou think about the top of the funnel and you probably don't call them mills?So what do you call them? And and how are you trying to speed them along ontheir journey? Oh, that's fascinating to me and I knew this because you toldme, but it's so obvious that how you think about the buying processinfluences the Martek stack and...

...influences how you grease the funneland how you are going to interact with the data that you have. Um so if whatwe've just kind of laid out above is the guiding principle, I'm curious howhow does the way that you look at the marketing funnel influence your Martekstack? Well, a lot of it I think comes down to focus. So one of the, we'refortunate to work with a lot of companies that are growing very, veryquickly and and they tend to either go into like a product led growth kind ofmotion or something more like an account based motion. But either waythey've got hundreds of thousands of people engaged, you know every week orevery day with their product and the challenge for a lot of these companiesjust to figure out, how do I understand what's going on in that engagement andwho to focus on right? Because they are on they might have 100,000 peoplecoming to their to their website asking about the product. They don't have100,000 sales reps. So they can't, they can't go 1 to 1. So how do you figureout who's, who's ready for what, what type of interaction And it's typicallya combination of all the data and context and intelligence that you canhave about what type of company that is, what they appear to want, what signalsthey've given you and then also what you know, tends to work. Right? So youcan say, all right, well this is a pattern recognition around people whoare at this stage from this type of company. This type of case study mightbe really useful for them to see how someone like them took the sort of nextbest step and figuring out what that next best step is and how to serve itup for people in all kinds of different segments and stages and buyer personas.That becomes a kind of problem that, you know, data plus intelligence isreally good at solving at scale. So a lot of figure out how to architect thatstack comes down to how do you put...

...intelligence and action together sothat you can do that, Put that next best step for each buyer into intoeffect across hundreds or thousands or millions of them. This is fascinating.So here comes the crash course, I want to know, how do you do that? How do yousupercharge your Martek stack? And I'm sure you, you've gotten dad did alittle bit so far. Yeah, yeah. So you know, there's a lot of pieces to thisand so we want things that is a little different about clear bit versus Iguess other other types of solutions maybe is, um, we're often an end tosomebody's Martek stack. Right? So we're not coming in and saying, um, hey,you've got these seven things, you need to blow them all away and use our onething we're saying you've got these seven things and they could all bebetter if they had more better data. So here's here recipes, we talked of themas recipes. Here's some recipes you might use to make your forms converthigher or make your ad campaigns better and more efficient at bringing peopleinto your funnel. And so those recipes are really dependent on what peoplehave in their stack and what goals are trying to achieve. But broadly we tryto break it into three different areas of supercharging if you will, there'sthings related to acquisition. So how do we bring more great people into thefunnel, There's things related to conversion, you know, once somebody isengaged, how do we help more people sort of raise their hand and engage oneon one with your sales process and then there's a whole host of things relatedto operations and and broadly the complexity of these stacks makes itthat more and a rich, real time consistent data you can have across allyour marketing systems or revenue systems has a huge impact. So those arekind of the three areas that we dive...

...into and ask customers. Okay, where doyou want to, where do you want to apply data? Okay. So acquisition top of thefunnel conversion, bottom of the funnel and then operations, can you, can youbreak that down even further with maybe an example of how those three players?Yeah, sure. Like what does that, what does that really mean? Acquisition isoften the role of the role of intelligence in an improvingacquisition is often about targeting and tailoring. So on the targeting side,whether you're trying to bring new people into your funnel throughadvertising or through email campaigns or through outreach on social channels,the more you can refine who you're trying to get the attention of based onrich ideal customer profiles, you know, like this is exactly the type of personat the type of company and the type of industry that I'm trying to start aconversation with that almost always improves your, your campaign success orlowers your cost per lead. So it's the, it's the targeting side to really getprecise and again, a lot of the things that were kind of paved through the Btwo C. Advertising and the way it can target are now available from a B two Bside. So really understanding rich company profiles and then on thetailoring side it really comes down to personalization and so how do you, howdo you show something based on what you know, how do you show something to aprospect that they're more likely to connect with? And so really, reallybasic example would be um, a lot of our customers sell to both big companiesand small companies, right? And, and they would like to show the logos orthe case studies to a given company based on whether they're a big companyor small company. Right? If you're a 50...

...person company and coming to check outa solution and all the logos are of, you know, Fortune 100 companies you goout maybe, but like, I don't know, that's not, that's not really me,whereas if you see, oh look, there's 10 logos in a case study of othercompanies who are about my size and are in my industry and that I've heard ofand even know people at, wow, okay, wow, this feels like my place. Right? Soeven something simple like that, what industry and what size company can besuper powerful and figuring out what do I present on my website and how do Imake it look like it's the, you know, it's the most relevant to you and whatyou're trying to do. So targeting and tailoring are are a big part ofacquisition. Does that make sense? Yes. And I want to get into conversion butbefore we do that I have a question that I'm sure most people know theanswers to. But your persona ends up on the website and this person is from asmaller company. How is it possible that that you're able to switch out theinformation on the website that they're being shown based on based on who theyare? So in broad strokes there's sort of two parts, there's the data and thenthere's the application of the data to the experience. So on the data sidepart of what clear bit brings the table is we are we are aggregating publiclyavailable information about basically every company with a website. So44-plus million companies. And so and we can also tell a lot about whosomebody is based on their IP address and how that links to those companies.Right? So not every time. But odds are very good that when you land on thewebsite we can tell what company you're at and where you're coming from. And soin in clear bits world we have over 100 attributes about every single one ofthose companies. Right? So you go from being an anonymous visitor to. Oh. Ohgot it. So you're a dental practice in...

Wisconsin and today. Okay, got it. So now so nowtrying to build the second part, how do you apply that data to a personalizedexperience? A lot of it comes down to segmentation, right? It wouldn't bepractical to say, oh, I've got a rule just for dentists from Wisconsinbecause I would have an awful lot of rules at that point. But I can havehigh level rules like small company versus big company technology companyversus not technology company. Right? And so if I'm in the business ofselling practice management software, I might have it split into, you know,dentists versus medical practitioners. Right. So those are, those are thetypes of rules that people can easily create. And then on the front end canuse a tool like google optimize or a tool like mutiny or even optimized leeto govern that personalization. And so what those systems do is say, all right,we're gonna show the big logos or the small logos and someone comes into thewebsite and that system goes and ask clear bit, hey, which one, which onehave I got here. Oh sure the small logo's so that's and that happens subsecond before before we even know the pages loaded. So that's that'sbrilliant. I think that's absolutely fascinating. Can you believe thatpeople have come up with all of these fascinating ideas. It's funny. It's alot of this stuff has been around for a long time in different forms. But whatI think has really changed is the availability of the data to power thatkind of stuff in real time. Um and I'll get, it's funny, it's an analogy that Ithinking about is not too long ago. If you think about music, right? And Ilove music, I've always been a big music fan, but collecting and havingmusic was this very arduous craft process. You don't have to go buy CDSand LPS and you'd end up with stuff on all kinds of different formats and okay,this is my music collection and that...

...sounds silly now. Right? I mean withSpotify and with what happened was like I guess, but all the music is availableeverywhere and I just use it. Right? And so we're going through the similartransition around this type of intelligence, like a lot ofintelligence for a long time has been locked away and this one is in the datawarehouse and this was back in the Crm somewhere and I think this one'sprobably in our in our email management system. Okay, But soon it's going to belike Spotify. No, it's all right there. You can have whatever information isuseful on tap real time to to personalize that website or to informthat chat window. And and that change is not just what you can do, it changeshow you think about the role of data. That makes sense. Changes the entireindustry. That's that's that's awesome. I love that analogy, that's superhelpful, especially it's something I'm just super familiar with. Um okay sothe way that you unpacked acquisition with. Talking about targeting andtailoring and breaking down what that really means in terms of superchargingthe Martek stack, can you do the same thing for conversions and that thatpart of final. Yeah the conversion is often where the reduced friction partcomes in. So really really common thing that people use that on tap data for isto take out all the unnecessary questions from a form. Right? So let'sgo back to our dentist from Wisconsin example. We may not know who thatperson is but if they're asking to learn more about our practicemanagement software then we don't need to show them all 12 fields on the formthat include, what company are you at? What industry are you in? And are youin the U. S. Or in another country? Like we know all that. So let's let'stake away all the stuff we already know And let's get that form down to threefields right, what's your email address and what are you really trying toaccomplish maybe? And then the fill rate goes up dramatically. And so andthat's a huge part of this. I mean, you...

...know, if we look at something you canyou can see these examples on our website but you know, live storm is acustomer. They talked about a 50% increase in sign up form completion,right? 50% is a big number. You know, we're not, we're not talking about twoor 3% on the margin here. So things that allow just again, remove thatfriction, use all the information available to make it as easy aspossible for that customer to engage with you is often what we're doing atthe conversion stage. There's another interesting version of that that playsout with conversational selling tools. So things like, like chat chat windowsand, and real time real time engagement again, if you can, If you can do thingslike alert a salesperson that somebody from one of their top, you know, 10most important target accounts has been on the site, go into these pages for 30seconds then that salesperson can literally pop that chat window and youknow, and instead of just saying, hey how can I help? And he's like, hey, itlooks like you're interested and so and so and you know, have you seen this?Right? I mean really start a conversation knowing who they are andwhat they appear to be looking for and that's a huge, huge advantage versussort of hoping they fill out the form. So that's kind of where conversioncomes in. Oh my gosh, that's fascinating. That's so cool that it's,there's no delay there either with the sales Process and with interacting withthe salesperson that that's something they can do immediately while theperson is still on the page because so much of communication and the B2B space,but probably just the entire world is like following up. Yeah. And that's it.It's really funny because in some ways following up becomes not a bad thing,but maybe not the first choice, right? Because if you, if you can just do itright away, that's better than having...

...to follow up. And so a good examplewould be back to the forms thing. We have a number of customers who useagain that that that intelligence to once you start filling out the form andsomeone, you know, you give give, put your email address in and now andyou've shared that. So now we know we can tell a lot more about who you areand where you're coming from if you are a great match for the ideal customer.Like, okay, you know, we, we got, we got a live one then popping up the setof meeting calendar, right then is a great way to just, hey, let's just,yeah, let's just skip right to what, what time works for you instead of well,at the farm and we'll get back to you and then I'll email you. Then we'll goback and forth on dates and then I'll send you that. I mean let's just rightto it. And I mean that's almost common practice for companies who are reallytrying to make sure that they are ready to engage when customers are ready toengage. And I think it also puts it puts the control in the hands of the,of the buyer, of the customer, right? So salespeople aren't chasing them anemail and interrupting the day this right now you said you want to meet,let's do it. I mean, which is great. I love that somebody you said to me lasttime we chatted was they deserve that the buyers deserve that kind of, thatkind of treatment. And and it goes back exactly what you're saying earlier ofhanging in the wind, the wings being very laid back. And then as soon assomebody puts up their hands, you are there to serve and man, I probablysaved so much time, so much energy and so much, so many things fallen throughto people than just getting distracted and and other priorities coming up theworld is noisy. Yeah. And it's interesting as you, as you, you know,play it back. I think part of the shift is to the extent that the quote old b tobe buying process was, hey, how do we,...

...how do we drive this customer down thepath? You know, how do we control the buying process and that there'scertainly a place for strategy and for architecture and buying process. But Ithink sort of recognizing that the buyer is going to choose their own path,really takes it from the, how do I, how do I lead them to more, how do I letthem choose their path? And then as soon as they're ready, make sure I'mready with them. And those are really, it's almost like, you know, the frontend and the back end and realizing they're going to find their own journeyto get there. So I'm curious if there's one that's obviously each version comeswith its unique set of challenges. But do you think this, this new wave ofbuying with the buyer being in the driver's seat? Um, do you think in someways like that is an easier process on both the buyer and the seller? I thinkit's inevitable, you know, and I, and I think, and that's part of why to yourpoint, I think it's it's sort of where where that process want, how it wantsto happen. I think the part that's not necessarily easier for a company isthat you you have to re think how you understand those signals and understandthose buyers in a way that you, in some ways that kind of relinquished controlof that process, right? And, and instead of saying, well, there aregoing to be seven steps to how somebody, you know, buys our service. There maynot be seven steps, There may be two steps and there may be 14 steps. Andthat's okay. And but you've got to be able to see those and recognize thoseand also see the patterns in those. Um, and so that you sort of embrace thecomplexity in a way that you can you can manage an influence. Um It'soverall a little bit less uh deterministic of a process, right? Andit's more one that's a bit more sort of emergent, but that's a uh I thinkthat's a big shift and there's a lot of...

...systems and processes that shift as aresult. And uh you know, that's that's a lot of where companies like ours whocan offer intelligence and consistency across those processes can help. Andthat's actually kind of to the third piece, that's where the operationsbenefit often comes in, right? So you're trying to shift your systems Tobe this more B2B by or driven digital process, the information that you'recollecting and the information that you're trying to put to work reallyneeds to be consistent across all the acronyms, your crm, and your M A P andyour C. D. P. And your and so how do you how do you really do that? You needa data layer of like, like what clear bit provides and there's a lot ofdifferent approaches to that. So I ask a lot of people this question and Iwould love to get your thoughts on this, but with a twist. So I ask a lot ofpeople, you know, if if somebody a marketing practitioner wants to applywhat you're suggesting and go go get the most out of their data, which is avery reduction is summary of what you just shared. You know what step one.But the twist I have here because I'm really curious about what you'd sayabout this is is what if you're the marketer and you want to apply thesestrategies and tactics, but you're not the decision maker at your company ornot the one who's going to be saying like I need a clear bit or I need thesetypes of marketing tools and technology. Mm hmm. Good question. Good question.So, to the first piece, I think starting with a very specific part ofthe funnel or customer touchpoints in mind is really helpful, right? So tothe examples earlier, you might choose form completion rates or you mightchoose social advertising, campaign engagement rates. Like let's picksomething that we know how to measure and we know has a meaningful impact onthis by your journey. And let's learn...

...how using data, using intelligence orapplying personalization can change that, that figure. That sounds obvious.But without that framing you're kind of just trying stuff and it's very hard toknow what's working or why it's working because again, it's a less sort ofdeterministic system, right? You know, you're trying to trying to create thisoutcome of more customers and bigger funnel. So you've got to be able to tolook at it on a sort of stage by stage basis. So, so all that is to say pick aspot and then form a hypothesis and then apply data to, to see if you can,you can affect the outcome now in terms of doing that at the highest levelversus doing that, you know, somewhere more in the mid level of theorganization. I actually think these types of changes often come from notthe top level, like, okay, we need got five systems today and we're going torip them out and replace them with these four systems that I think thatthat can happen, but more often what people are doing with with solutionslike ours is saying, how can I apply this to a very specific part and thenbring that to the rest of the stack as it as it shown to work. And that is amore evolutionary and more, you know, department driven initiative a lot oftimes. And so we find that a lot of our conversations are actually, you know,with the demand managers or growth managers or go to market leads, who aresaying I've got a couple of points in my funnel, but I really want tomeasurably improve. But then I want to do so in a way that I can start tobring to the rest of the funnel, you know, without having to reinventanything. And so they look at again that an intelligence platform like oursis meant to do that. So you can start small, but you're gonna have everything,you need some Oh, good advice. What results could they expect to see? Iknow you mentioned one of your...

...customers 50% increase in form rate Iwould look at. So yeah, it depends on where you're targeting, right? So ifyou look at the forms, look at the complete rate. A lot of it comes alsodown to quality and so which is which is which depends on your manager. So alot of our companies, a lot of our customers work off some version of anICP an ideal customer profile. And when you're trying to figure out, not justdid you get more people engaged or did you create more leads from a givencampaign? Being able to measure the quality or the match against your ICPis often a really useful way to tell whether or not the targeting andtailoring is working because it's not just about can I get more people? But Iget more of the kind of people I think are really going to value and what I'mdoing and how to get more of those types of people engaged. So looking atall the acquisition and engagement and conversion metrics against your idealcustomer profile is a really nice way to try to get a sense for quality. Andthen later on we see that manifest in an increasing close rates for sales. Anincrease in average deal size. Right? Again, more of the types of customersthat ain't get more value. And so you're sort of feeding this system withbetter quality fuel if you will. And then you start to see the results ofthat with the systems already have, oh gosh, this seriously has been a crashcourse. You have given me so much to think about and I've learned so much.I'm curious if there was one thing that you'd want me or any of our listenersto walk away from this episode knowing what would it be. You know, I just, Iwould invite them to take a fresh look at what's possible. I mean, this a lothas changed even in the last couple of years around, you know, kind of back tothe Spotify analogy like the...

...availability of intelligence right atthe, at these customer touchpoints and it really changes the way the immediacywith which you can engage customers in an intelligence with which you canengage them. So I would say take a look around and see see what companies aredoing and experimenting with in this intelligence space. And I think the,you know, in some ways the biggest mistake would be not to try stuff. So,you know, I, I can't say for sure what will, what will work for you or whatthe best solution would be, but get out there and try stuff because it's, it'sa really fun time to take a fresh look at the buyer journey that is so hopeful.Take a fresh look at what's possible and try stuff stuff. So if peoplewanted to connect with you, kevin and learn more about you or learn moreabout clear bit, how could they do that? Clear bit. Dot com is probably the bestplace to start. I'm kevin dot Tate at clear bit dot com. So bring me uh andthen Lincoln. Beautiful. Oh man! Well, it has been such a pleasure to have youon the tv growth. Thank you for joining me. Thanks for having me have a greatday. You too, is the decision maker for your productor service Abebe marketer. Are you looking to reach those buyers throughthe medium of podcasting? Considered becoming a co host of GDP Growth. Thisshow is consistently ranked as a top 100 podcast in the marketing categoryof apple podcasts and the show gets more than 130,000 downloads each month.We've already done the work of building the audience so you can focus ondelivering incredible content to our listeners if you're interested, emailLogan at sweet fish Media dot com. Mhm.

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