B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1686 · 2 months ago

Stop Losing MQLs, with Maia Morgan Wells

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to Maia Morgan Wells, Senior Content Marketing Manager at Act-On and host of The Marketing Hero Podcast.

Maia explains the power of having your team own a couple of key verticals and breaks down how you can use content clusters to force alignment around those verticals.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and today I am joined by a new friend, my Morgan Wells. She is the senior content marketing manager at act on. My were so happy to have you here. Thanks for having me, Benjie. So, before I take us to our our main conversation today, I have to start us here because it's not too often that on the podcast I actually interview a fellow podcast host, so I want to know my what's like your favorite part of getting to host a podcast and maybe, like what's been your biggest learning since you've been hosting? I love hosting podcast one because I just like to talk in general, so it's perfect for me to be hosting a show like the marketing hero podcast. been doing about eighteen months now, and I think the biggest thing I've learned, it's a small thing, I guess, but for me it's been big to not script out your podcast too much. I think at the beginning I was really concerned about making sure I asked all the questions I wanted to ask and prep my guests, you know, accordingly, and I feel like the first few guests I had really wrote out their answers and it seemed robotic when the recording came out. So that's been a little nugget that I've learned that's made my podcasting experience a lot better. I think the conversation stations come out better and honestly, the last few interviews I've done have gotten a lot deeper into, you know, issues of diversity and inclusion and how do you become a leader and going beyond the tactical stuff a little bit. So that's been really, really fun to learn. And Yeah, I just love doing it. I love meeting people that are way smarter than me and talking to them about marketing and specifically about SASS marketing, because that's what I do in my daytoday job, and so getting to talk to some of my heroes and nerd out with them a little bit has just been an awesome experience. Yeah, I always say with podcasting, to me, making sure you have the right questions to start and prompt the conversation is wonderful, but being willing to go down the rabbit trails with your guest is where the greatest parts of the episode come right. So like yes, you did your research, yes, you did your homework. You got some questions right now. But, like, I love what you said there. You don't want to be too scripted, and so really glad to be chatting with you today. And we're not talking about podcasting on this episode really at all, because you are in a newer role, lots of new faces and the organization at large, and there's a lot of that you're currently working on right now, really focused on brand messaging and positioning, right. So maybe give us a brief rundown on what you're working on? My sure. So, as you said in your brief introduction, I lead content marketing at act on and the foundation for what I do as a content marketer comes from the brand's position. HMM, if you don't have a specific brand positioning Guy Messaging Guide, you know, it comes...

...down to who are we as a company? Who are we as a brand? If you don't know the answer to that question, how can you possibly come up with an effective content strategy? Right? So, coming up with and defining really well who it is you are as a company and what it is that you're offering to whom is extremely important to provide the foundation for what we do as marketers every day. HMM. And a key piece of the strategy you guys are working on now that maybe it sound like, was maybe even a little new to you, but it's basing all of your content around a couple key verticals. Is that right? How does that work? Yes, a very new and exciting approach to what we're doing at act on is identifying and going after some really key verticals for our product. And where that came out of is partly from the exercise and brand positioning. Because to answer who are we? To whom? You know, it's that to whom part right. And so the exercise really started with looking at who are our most successful customers. Where do we really find success? What Industries gravitate towards act on as a marketing automation solution? And that comes from collaborating with the director of Product Marketing, with our new crro you know, and some of the other executives that have a really great handle on who do we serve best? And from that we identified three verticals that were now focusing in on, not that we're completely, you know, re charting everything that we're doing, and they're still going to be thought leadership you know, helpful content on how to those types of things always need to be there as a foundation for good marketing. But, you know, pivoting and talking more towards these specific industries is one way that we're going to try to reach the goal of being a big name, a big player in those specific verticals and and really going from that underdog sort of positioning that we currently sort of have as a brand into, you know, this is the best in class marketing automation solution for this particular industry. You know, one of them that we were heavily going after and that we're very successful in so far is financial services. So banks, credit unions, financial advisors, wealth management, those types of companies do really well with act on. So part of it is who does well with the solution? How does that solution provide value in that industry? And then, you know, conversely, who are we in that conversation as well? So focusing in on these verticals has really provided us sort of like a guard reels, you know, so that we can plan the right activities and marketing to really hit the right people. So you mentioned three there and then gave us a specific on one, which is the financial services what are the other two that you are are focusing on vertically? The other two right now are high tech manufacturing. We recently did a great case study with Hitachi, which is one of our customers in the EMEA region, and so really focusing in on high...

...tech manufacturing and then also business services. So another area that does really well using a specialized marketing automation solution like act on are people that provide be to be consulting, you know, in other types of business services. So those are the three were focusing in on right now and having a really great time kind of figuring out the balance of the general thought leadership content, the how to, the inspirational content that we sort of always need to do, and then how do we then sprinkle in articles and and podcast episodes and other things, webinars and things like that for people in these specific industries? And it's interesting right now because I'm trying to figure out, as a content person, what's the right mix of that, because I don't think, honestly that if I'm, you know, let's say I'm a CMO or even a marketing manager at a bank, I don't need every single article that I read to be specifically about you know, marketing automation for bank marketers. I I don't think we need to get that keyword happy. You know, in the situation, what is the right mix of providing specific resources for those people that relate to, let's say, email regulations that all banks need to follow? There's a regulation called findra right that banks have to follow if they're doing email marketing. Has To do with consumer privacy protections. So it's a little bit of a niche kind of thing that we need to be aware of as marketers, but I don't think it's a hundred percent niche to down, if that makes sense. So I'm in the process right now planning out the content for q three, Q fur. What what's the right mix of that? So that's partly on the content side. So we are looking at those three industry verticals and planning out our next moves and industry partners that we might want to get involved with at this time too. So I want to ask a follow up question there, because it's I mean three verticals is probably close to the Max that someone would pick. Once you get beyond that, I imagine that starts to get immensely complicated. But even with three you're going to be dealing with some complexities. So within your content strategy, how are you thinking about kind of splitting your time or trying to become like a thought leader in each of those three spaces? How do you think about that? Man, that really is a great question and that's something I'm working on right now and our whole team is actually working on, and not only in the marketing site. We also are involving stakeholders, from sales stakeholders from product even you know, what are the features that are going to become important as we really pivot into these industries, not that we haven't worked in them before, but really honing in and going okay, we're not going to be everything to everyone, not right now. We really need to focus on doing a really great job in these three particular industries. So the way that we're starting is general. Part of that is driven by Seo Keyword Research as we start to update content on our website. Right. But it's very rare that somebody's going to type in according to seem rush right or some of our other tools like Mas. If you're doing that actual keyword research for SEO and you're typing that in, you're researching that it's very rare that somebody's going to be searching marketing automation software for credit unions.

Right. There's a very low search volume for that. You would you guys can look it up. If you got a subscription to sem rush aw you might you go it. Just looked that up for fun. The search volumes low and if the search volume is so low that you're really not going to draw in a lot of organic traffic, then you start to question what's the point of focusing there, right. And so, you know, one of the things that we've done is realized very early on in this process that we do need to start a little bit broad. So instead of focusing in on, let's say, making a pillar page or a website page for marketing automation SOFTWARE FOR BANK MARKETERS, we're just doing bank marketing as our main, you know industry page, because people actually search for that and it is a place that we can provide valuable content for people in that industry. People might be looking for advice and expertise on marketing in general for banks or for high tech manufacturing and the different you know industry verticals we just talked about. So we're starting general and it's not only because of the Seo Keyword, research, Bingee, it's also because we need to start somewhere. We don't just want to wait and have like analysis paralysis. Right. That's kind of difficult in marketing because we always want to have data informed strategies, but we also want to do along the way. So what we're doing is we're starting with the general and then moving into more specific topics as we start gathering data. People that come in through that page, people that might come in through PPC campaigns around those keywords, for example. Where do they go? What happens with them and what type of content helps them on their customer journey to really make that decision. And you know what, at the end of the day we might find out that, you know, the General Marketing Automation Quick Start Guide, you know, is one of our most popular ebooks, for example. We may find out that that is the resource that Credit Union marketers love to read and we don't need necessarily a resource specific to the nuances of Credit Union marketing. Maybe that's better done with a Webinar that invites people from that industry to see some speakers that they look up to in their industry. So that's a long answer to your question, but we're starting general and then we're going to get more specific as we get more data and as we really reveal what kind of topics are valuable for the specific people were going after. Yeah, let me ask you one more question on the vertical. So do you see the play towards these three as a way to kind of stop losing mqls or to maybe generate more ideal leads? What was that kind of May behind the scenes conversation or what pushed you in this direction? Well, I think part of the motivation is that little phrase I said before, which is it's hard to be all things to all people, and so if you really decide who you are and decide who you're helping, it really helps to put those guard reels up for planning on all levels, from top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, all the way through the pipeline. You know who are we and how do we talk to these specific people? And so that goes for somebody like me WHO's, you know, running content marketing. It goes...

...for people like some of my colleagues who are doing social media or webinars. Where are they really interacting online and what watering holes. I don't really love that term, but watering holes, where are these people hanging out? It helps us to really focus our energy a little bit more into these different verticals and, like you said, so that we are drawing in the right type of leads, as I think sometimes a problem in marketing is we love to see those metrics, right. We love to see thousands of leads coming into our you know, sales force or wherever we're collecting leads, something like act on. We love to see those numbers in the thousands every month, right. It's kind of gratifying. It's like, look how many people filled out my form. But if those are not the right people that are a fit for your solution, you're going to be wasting Your Business Development Reps time, you know, your SDR's time, being on the phone call seeing if that's a well qualified person. And this is mostly for the B Tob side, right where we're really qualifying leads. It's a longer sales process if you're sending mqls through that are really not mqls. You know, maybe it's just you know, we've we had one really surprising issue come up when we were talking to our sdrs well, how come these mqols aren't moving on to become sqls? What are you rejecting them? What's the problem? And in a couple of cases the the lead didn't understand that we were not a crm. That act on is specifically a marketing automation platform, and that's a failure on marketings part, right, because we should have very clear messaging that of who we are what we are. So I'd know if that's necessarily only related to honing in on some industries. You know, that's a messaging thing overall and we're working on all of these things at the same time. But I thought that was a really interesting problem of wow, like it's a lack of understanding of the product at all, right, and so that's definitely not a call that you want to spend time on. Then you know at that point in the sales side. So it is helping us to first identify that ICP in the first place, like who is our ideal customer? And then what I always like to ask myself on the marketing side is what does that particular person need to know in order to move to the next stage and be confident with our company? So do they need to know how the product works? Do they need to know the features? Do they need to be inspired with what other people have done? Do they need to know that we've got great reviews on Gtwo like, what is it that that person needs to know at that moment in the customer journey in order to move them forward? And I think if we can answer that as content marketers, as product marketers, whatever part of the marketing equation you're in, as long as you're thinking about that, I think it really helps you to better qualified leads and give better leads to the sales team. Hey, everybody, Olivia here. As a member of the sweet fish sales team. I wanted to take a second and share something that makes us insanely more efficient. Our team uses lead Iq. So, for those of you who are in sales or sales ups, let me give you some context. You know how long gathering contact data can take so long and...

...with lead Iq, what once took us four hours to do now it takes us just one. That is seventy five percent more efficient. We are so much quicker with outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns so much easier than before. I suggest you guys check it out as well, you can find them at lead iqcom. That's La d iqcom already. Let's jump back into the show. What is it that that person needs to know at that moment in the customer journey in order to move them forward? And I think if we can answer that as content marketers, as product marketers, whatever part of the marketing equation you're in, as long as you're thinking about that, I think it really helps you to better qualified leads and give better leads to the sales team. HMM, and that's where I want to go now because I love that question. What do they need to know? And so you have these verticals to find and then it goes obviously that's going to begin to really inform your content strategy. You're saying you're going to start a little bit more general. You found in previous jobs that you've been in this idea of content clusters to be particularly helpful. So I wonder if we could kind of push these two things together in a sense, right and take this vertical, informed content strategy and then these content clusters and spend the rest of our time together giving that away to our audience to go hey, here's a different way of maybe thinking about it. You know where our ICEPS, you know who they are, and now we're going to create this kind of content cluster around that. So let's let's start here. My would you walk us through what a content cluster is? Sure, and this is going to be the play along portion of the podcast episode today, because you can grab your Google Dog, get your notebook out, your Google dog, whatever you want to take notes on, because we're going to do this together and if you want to pause to come back, you should do that. But an all in all seriousness, a content cluster is just what it sounds like. It's a cluster of content. And if you don't like the word cluster, you can say, you know, hub and spoke. There's different ways that people say it. Our pillar, content, hubben spokes is another way. So really what we're starting with is the center of that. So what is the pillar? What is the center of the the hub? Right, so, in most cases that's going to be a big long web page, website page that is, this is very important, linked in your main navigation on your website. It cannot be an orphan page that lives on your website. It can be in a dropdown, it can be in a sub menu, but it needs to be in the main navigation of your website and it's important for reasons I will talk about later as we get into the master of all Seo and all organic traffic, which is Google. Like this is all to please google. So at the middle of that is going to be your pillar page, and we can think about this together right now. So in the case that we've been talking about today, we're focusing on industry verticals, and so the way that I've planned the content clusters for right now, for my current position, is based around the verticals. So at the center that is going to be the industry vertical...

...website page. So for us is going to be, you know, your ultimate guide to bank marketing, you know, A to Z guide to X Y Z. So it can either be industry or, if you're playing along right now, it can be a type of service that you offer, it can be a category of product that you offer. And so I've done this before and a previous job I worked at an agency called clear pivot, and clear pivot wanted to get more clients in the SASS industry. They had a lot of success of medical device marketing and other industries and had started to kind of trickle in with a few clients from the SASS industry and really wanted to make a concerted effort to pull in more leads for SASS. So we created, just like I was saying, the ultimate guide to SASS marketing, and it's a website page that's linked in the main navigation and then when you navigate to that page, it is literally everything you need to know. If you were trying to, you know, get a degree in SASS marketing by reading one website page, that should be your goal. It's like a five thousand to seven thousand word massive website page on gated and you go through everything you need to know, so whether that's a certain type of product that you offer, a certain service that you offer, a different audience that you're trying to hit. So you pick one. For us right now we're picking three to focus on, and the main part of that is the middle, the pillar page. So that's that long everything you need to know page. The key to this, then, is building out the cluster around that. You're going to plan out the topics that are going to be important for your audience to know. So going back to that question for yourself, what does this person need? To know at this time in order to move forward in the process? Do they need to know specifically about social media marketing in order to feel comfortable? Do they need to know use cases that other people have, you know, experience? Do they need to know about how your solution helps them stay compliant with industry regulations? You know in the case that we're doing right now. So if you can imagine the s folks going out, that's going to be a bunch of different blog posts, it's going to be podcast episodes, webinars, anything like that, videos, any of the content that's around that, you'll start to plan out and and create a list of content that that person needs to know in order to become a sales qualified lead, pretty much. So that's the goal in that content cluster. This is also hugely important. Each of those assets need to be linked to from the pillar page and needs to link from itself back to the pillar page. So if you're imagine you're writing a blog about some specific topic, make sure that you're specifically linking back to that pillar page and that every asset in that circle links back to the pillar page. That's where you're actually creating, cody. Yeah, that's where you're creating the cluster. It's not a cluster if there's no links people. So you have to create the actual cluster and that's where you start to develop that authority for the page, for the main pillar page that Google is going to start to send traffic to. And now I mentioned the example...

...of that ultimate guide, disass marketing, for the agency I worked with and in six months of one putting up the pillar page and then building a content cluster around it, I think we ended up with like twenty five different blogs. You know, it is like how to choose the best agency. You know how to choose the best SASS marketing agency. What are the best Sass marketing metrics to pay attention to right so you can hear those keywords SASS marketing metrics, Ass Marketing Agency and so on. Right SASS marketing examples, those start to become your, you know, your leafs on the edge of your flower for loop, using the act on example, and linking to each other. And that started to create so much organic traffic for that main page that we tripled, and I'm saying tripled, our organic leads on that topic in six months from building that out. It really really worked and I know that it's hard to judge exactly what the Google Algorithm is going to do, but I'm telling you, planning and executing your content with this content cluster idea one really helps you to provide value to that ICP. It answers all the questions they have and provides them all the social proof that they need and really starts guiding them through that customer journey to hit that get a demo or schedule my consultation, you know, whatever that called. Action is to hit that. And one small little thing that I'll just add to the end of that is on your pillar page, you want to have all the content totally on gated on there, but you also want to have a small form, floating form if you want, that scrolls down the page with you, where you can get a download of that same information as a PDF. And you would be surprised, even though you can read all that right there on the page without given up any info, so many people fill out that form and that's where you start to get all those leads coming in because people are downloading that ultimate guide to x, Y Z. and then just another I know I'm saying I said, one more small point, but another small point on that is make yourself a landing page as well. That's specifically for PPC. For that, because this is not only about organic traffic, right. It's not only about SEO value, it's also about providing yourself a ton of content that you can then use for other stuff. Social Media topics that you know, giveaways after your Webinar, follow up by email, put it in your automated email programs, all that great stuff. So another tip for you is use this for PPC, use this for paid social programs. Say, Hey, get the ultimate guide disass marketing, get the ultimate guide to bedb grows, you know, whatever it is, and have a separate landing page that doesn't give up all the information that is just hey, get our ultimate guide, typical landing page. So that would be my kind of detailed explanation of a content cluster and I think you know, if you were writing some stuff down, you probably already have half your cluster planned out for right now that you can do so. I hope that helps. No, I think it helps a lot of some some follow up questions that I want to ask. Their one would be, as you're thinking of again, this Combo of verticals meeting the content clusters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could see one of...

...the issues being in my immediate way that my content strategy goes. It could get a little to marketing heavy if you're not careful. or it's like I know the exact verticals. So now, instead of giving away just helpful content, I'm giving away like use our service, use our service, use our service. How is that something that you've run into where you're like, okay, I need to make sure that we're giving away helpful content and then also that we're meeting the expectation and then we're actually getting M quels from this. How do you think about that? That is a really good question and I think about that a lot because the main point of what I do is to be helpful and to provide value, and I think that one of the ways that we achieve that is to never say and we offer that with our service here at Blah Blah Blah company. Do not write that in your blog, but it's hard not to you. You have to stop yourself from that. The calls to action will come in the calls to action, the calls to action you are following you down the sidebar. You want to have an inline CTA inside that content every few you know, if you're writing seven thousand words, every couple thousand words thrown inline CTA in there. How you know the context of your website is going to provide the opportunity to convert? You don't have to say and by the way, we provide that service here at Blah Blah company. That is I think most people know that. That's super cheesy. I feel like I don't want to throw sales people under the bus, but I think when sales team get into the content conversation too much, that's when you end up with that type of language. Or, let's say, bless their hearts, a salesperson wants to contribute to content, or even if it's like a solopreneur and they're doing everything themselves, it's like a compulsion to say that you know, and and you should demo our software because it does this for you. You know, save it for the CETA, save it for your PPC advertising. You know, rarely posted on social. It should be like maybe every couple months you say, Oh, and by the way, we are actually a service that does some stuff. You know, it should not be coming into the content conversation. Really at all. It really should not be in the text of what you're offering, even like an ebook or anything. It should, you know, have an ending page, you know, like your back cover of your Ebook, so to speak, is going to be that called action. It is not going to be within the text of the Ebook if somebody wanted to just take the front cover and the back cover off. That information should be solution agnostic, is what we call it. Be Solution Agnostic, be helpful right about topics that you don't even serve with your service or you know, like we write about, for example, SMS marketing regulations. We are not a legal service whatsoever, but hey, if you're doing SMS marketing, which is a tool that act on offers, you might be wanting to be aware of that and here's some helpful content about that. And, by the way, we have any book on Best Practices for SMS which is in the CETA, not in the text of the blog. HMM. Yeah, it's, thinks, a crucial point. The...

...other question I have is around if you have a, let's say, an industry vertical page, so it's your pillar content there, when you're linking to all of these blogs, might, as you're creating this content. Like, does that vertical page, as that pillar content, inform all the blogs you then create for the next quarter or so, or like Howard, how do you think about the timing of all of that and how much that one sort of pillar page informs the rest of your content? It is an iterative process, to be sure of binge, because you want to, Yep, start somewhere. You want to write about the basics. What are the benefits of this? What are the potential problems? How can marketing automation help? Those types of things you know you're going to write about and then link to what you have so far. So if we already have a few blogs, you know, a few Webinars, some case studies in these different industries, we're not coming out a completely cold we do have, you know, some stuff. To start with, we did a content audit of these different industries. You know, have ten blogs or so for each one of these industries already. That's very specific. And then I have some thought leadership content that applies that people in these industries gravitate towards right. So what I'm going to do is, number one, start with. What is everything you need to know about XYZ topic. So again that ultimate guide to, the ADZ guide to. I know these titles seem a little bit overused. See if you can get more creative with that, but it does help you to just say what it is. It is the ultimate guide to whatever that pillar page is on. So start with that. And what are the questions that people would be asking? Again we're coming back to that same question. What do I need to know? So I need to know like, what is it, who is it for? Why is it beneficial? How do I choose a partner? Maybe something like that, but not again, not. Here's how you choose me. Here's how you choose a partner. And then you talk about the things that actually make you become the choice, but you don't actually say and I'm the choice. Right. You might subtly link to your product page in that paragraph or linked to your pricing page, but you know those types of things. So those are going to be the general questions that are going to rule your outline. And then in that you're probably going to have some content that already applies that you're going to just literally hyperlink to those assets. And then yes, and then the second layer of that is, all right, where's our holes. You know. Okay, we had you know, we didn't talk about linking to your arp in the manufacturing context. People have ARP systems and they want to know if that links in with how does that relate to marketing automation, like, for example, in this in this example. So, oh, we don't have a blog about that. Well, there we go. There's some topics that we need to write about. We start filling in the holes and then actually, that may even inform more of what you need to add to the pillar page. So you're going to be kind of going back and forth between your supporting assets. Yeah, so you're just looping it and you just were. The cool thing is that loop provides you with a road map for it could ride you with a road map for like years. You know, as I mentioned the product, the project that I set as an example, that was really successful. We worked on that and started to series olts after six months, but the company still, I...

...mean it's been almost a year since we really started that, maybe a year and a half since we started that, and they're still adding blog topics and adding to that page and then going back and adding images and going back and saying, Hey, here's how three different companies did this kind of approached to Sass marketing, and here's a screenshot of the email that we got, you know, and and adding to that so that page can get really, really big and it can really become the ultimate guide to whatever you're trying to talk about. All Right, here's how we're going to wrap up. I want to act like I'm dropping you into a new job. Okay, my so it's down the road. It's a new company. They have an established really like this structure yet. So what are you doing when you're coming in to get started, whether it's knowing what you know now with the verticals and the clusters, like, what's that first action item on your list? Okay, the very first thing that you have to do is look at the existing data. What is there, what has been working and what is not been working so far? That's a number one thing. And if we don't have a Google Pixel going on, if we don't have tracking going on in your company currently, you got to start that like yesterday. You should not be doing any marketing without tracking it. I think the audience for be to be growth already knows that. I think people are tracking their data right. So you know, the first thing I would do is show me the data. You know what is performing, what's not performing, and I would really like to see multitouch attribution on some of your best customers. What content did they find helpful? Did they download an Ebook? Did they not? Did they go straight to the pricing page and then sql and they were a customer the next day? Great. You know, that really helps to inform where the holes are, where people are falling off. You know, do they visit your pricing page and then unsubscribed from your list immediately? You know what what is actually going on, because I think if you don't have a place to start, you have tould be able to go anywhere, right. So data is the very first place I would start. If there are not any pillar pages happening, I would maybe start to identify what are some of the most important categories of content that we might want to start to focus on. So, again, that could be a product category, it could be a services category, it could be an industry, for example, and oftentimes companies that I work with already have this like fifty percent the way they're this is not something that you have to start from scratch, and that's the really cool thing, because it could seem overwhelming, like, oh my gosh, this whole pillar page thing like that is crazy. Now you probably already have the page on your website. It's just not big enough, it's just not rich enough yet, it just doesn't have enough links from into it yet. So you probably already have that page. If it's a new company I'm coming into, they probably already have some industries pages or some solutions pages or some product pages. Right. So let's analyze those. Let's look at some heat maps, let's look at some converts and data. Again, we're back to the data.

How are those pages performing right now and what can we do to start improving them incrementally without completely overturning the whole ship? So it's something you can do incrementally. I mean even just last week I went on to our industries pages and just edited the language a little bit, you know, and then next week I'm going to start to do some more on that. And so it can be just as a small step out of time. Add a blog post, link it back to the pillar page, link it from the pillar pach right, share that on social get some momentum going. Okay, now what's the next question people are asking and I think I'll end that with one of the most important things to do in that process is talk to your partners in sales. They're going to be able to inform the questions that they get asked over and over. They're going to be able to tell you what content is going to seem valuable to the people that they're talking to. Do not do marketing of any kind in a vacuum. You have to involve your partners and sales and really create this revenue engine where marketing and sales are pushing everything forward together, not separately, and you're going to get a lot farther. I love this conversation. I love the idea of combining these verticals with our content clusters so much here. Probably have a page full of notes. Maybe you were cooking dinner and taking notes at the same time, or running and just getting I always listen to podcasts while I'm running and I think about him like I need a jot that down, so I'm sure there's some that pulled up. That's when you stop the treadmill. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, US stop the TREADMILL, jump up with your feet on the sides and write on your notes, thaying real quick and then try to jump back on. Yeah, that's hopefully you don't fall down in the gym, guys. Well, thank you so much, my for being here with us on B tob growth today. Tell us a little bit about where people can stay connected to you and the work that act on is doing. Oh my goodness. Well, first you guys can go to act oncom and see what we're doing with those industry pages and how that develops. Sign up to get some of our e books if you want to. If I'm doing my job right, you should be very, you know, pleased and have things that are easy to find that are interesting to you. And then me personally, I'm on Linkedin. I'm Maya Morgan Wells, so search me up and if you want another podcast to listen to, go look for the marketing hero podcast over on Apple Podcast, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, again, Maya, thank you for being here for our listeners. If you have yet to subscribe to be to be growth, be sure to do that or whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on. And we're so glad to have had my here with us today. Thanks for being here. You're welcome. Is My pleasure we're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need to have on the show, reach out email me, Beng dot block at...

Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to hearing from you.

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