B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2105 · 9 months ago

Segment Your Leads - Start Seeing Results

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk to Ryan Fyfe, acting CMO at Workpuls.

Yeah. Hey everyone welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm Olivia Hurley with sweet fish media and today I'm joined by Ryan Fife of work pulse. Hey Ryan, how you doing? Doing well. Thanks for having me on the show. Olivia. Oh well, absolutely. I'm so glad we get to talk today. Ryan before we hit record, we were talking about Ways that marketers might be tripping up and you were saying that it's treating all leads equally, that people get in trouble. You were saying we should start segmenting the leads, focusing on lead scoring and understanding the profitability of each channel. So I definitely want to unpack all of that. Let's start right at the top. Why do you think B2B marketers should stop treating all leads equally? Yeah, I love this conversation. Um, no two leads are created the same and I think the faster that any B2B company can develop a sense of, you know, segmentation on on one axis and scoring on the other. They can more finely...

...tuned both the capital spend that they're doing to acquire leads and also their internal, you know, like human capital as well. And then optimize both of those accordingly. I've had the pleasure of seeing kind of the positives of, you know, implementing segmentation on one side and being able to, you know, cut off losers double down on winners. And then I've also seen kind of the negatives that happen if you let these types of things go for too long without separating out or segmenting leads. So an example of that is, you know, kind of washing all leads into one bucket and assuming they're profitable and then stepping on the gas on some paid channels that were extreme losers and then not being able to really understand or optimize the channels that really are working well. So, so curious what have you seen and why do you think that not everyone operates like that? Um, I think it depends on the scale of the company and there's probably on this startup scale,...

...you might just not have enough data yet. And so you might be scared to start thinking about segmentation too early, which I agree is something to definitely be cautious of. And then on the other end of the spectrum it might be, you know, you just don't have access to enough of the data, maybe that data siloed in a large organization and you're not able to get kind of the bottoms up information by looking backwards from where your customer base is now. So that's things like, um, you know, churn rates the lifetime value of your customers that have been with you for a while and then you can work backwards from that to figure out which channels and marketing initiatives led to those types of healthier customers, fascinating. So can you walk me through how somebody might start segmenting their leads, how they might start focusing on lead scoring? Yeah, I think there's a number of things. So again, it comes back to sort of what the stage that you're at, the first part is data. And so you can think about getting data from analytics...

...at the very high level for things that are happening on your website. But I think that data really needs to be married or paired with the data that comes kind of from your existing customer base to really understand how the marketing initiatives ultimately led to the healthiest types of revenues. Because ultimately all marketing initiatives will lead to some sort of results just they won't, all the results always won't be created equally. And then the other part is actually thinking about what type of segmentation is relevant for your type of business. Because we're speaking B two B. I think a lot of the same things apply to, you know, 90% of B to B companies. So these are things like which channel ultimately did the leads come from? Was a word of mouth paid organic search. Was it retargeting? Was it based on a content campaign, those types of things. Then you can think of segmentation, the kind of like customer fit. What is the size of the SMB mid market enterprise? Every I've never seen two businesses that have the same...

...definition of those either. And I think that's okay. I think the goal is to always try to group your customers into the fewest amount of meaningful buckets that allows you to make actionable decisions are actually treat them correctly without over optimizing for that. Things like industry geography, that all falls more under segmentation and then we like to think about it kind of that on one access. So what is the ideal customer fit and then kind of a scoring attribute on the other for how ready are they? Have they touched our website once and seeing the brand have they interacted maybe with a form attended a webinar, those types of activity metrics for we look at that and generating kind of like an SQL so a marketing qualified lead. And then again going further into the funnel to like a product qualified or sales qualified lead because it's ultimately at each one of those conversion points, you're going to get a higher level of confidence that those leads are going to be the right types of leads that turn it to the right types of customers.

That's not an exhaustive list. Again, no two businesses are the same, but it's a good I think framework to start thinking about it. Hey, everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know where big proponents of putting out original organic content on linked in. But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to easily track the reach of that linked in content. That's why I was really excited when I heard about Shield the other day from a connection on, you guessed it linked in since our team started using Shield. I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyze the performance of Arlington content without having to manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see things like what contents been performing the best and what days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views proposed. I highly suggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting out content on linked in and if you're not, you should be, it's been a game changer for us. If you go to Shield app dot Ai and check out the 10 day free...

...trial, you can even use our promo code B two B growth to get a 25% discount. Again, that's shield app dot Ai. And that promo code is B the number to be growth. All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. So what results have you seen? Wow everything and anything? So, you know, from shutting off campaign losers, just kind of figuring out that certain channels aren't effective for us. So example is SND or Micro s nds are always very hard to generate positive. Our Ally active. And so if you can figure out which channels, for example, are bringing bigger leads versus smaller leads, that's a huge like immediate our Ally. One of the things that we we recently run and this is something that I like to kind of continually do is what I call a jennifer experiment, which is we turn one of our, we create basically a...

...virtual ghost sales rep that is completely driven by marketing and marketing targets that at a specific segment that is less profitable for us to work on on the sales side. And we see how kind of the marketing bought ghost can compare against our live human reps. And over time you can sort of compare the differences, try to mimic the behaviors of your live reps. And so an example that we just ran is we completely removed our human sales reps to replace kind of, by this jennifer bought, which is getting very similar results while doing it completely On the marketing side. It's a way to kind of, you know, friendly, create competition, ensure that you're always focusing your highest value sales resources on the best opportunities and then trying to move to a no touch, low touch model that is more marketing and content driven. So that's another kind of fun example. So I'm fascinated by this. Can we take a rabbit trail here and explore jennifer...

...a little bit more? Absolutely, yeah. So curious what was the impetus for creating the ghost sales rep? It's a combination of things. So that jennifer actually comes from something I picked up from one of the early founders from Zendesk. They ran a jennifer experiment there and I was fascinated by how they did that and just kind of the thought process of always challenging the status quo. And so I think the tool stack that we have as marketers available today, it's pretty incredible what we can do. And that's not even getting into like the true a I bought type stuff on that side, but just from a marketing automation perspective, the amount of data and how integrated that can all be across devices, across channels. So our ability, I think to do a lot more and replace a lot of what was taking our live reps in the past, it's just so much better. And so we should always be challenging ourselves to, you know, see how much further in the funnel that we can get them as marketers or if we can get them through the funnel exclusively before we hand...

...off to our counterpart in sales. And so when we see it are, I've seen this both my previous startup as well as this one is especially on the lower end of the spectrum, you can almost exclusively get them through with marketing with with a good collaboration between marketing and product. And then naturally we can't as marketers respond to things like RFP security questionnaires and a lot of the stuff that comes in more on the enterprise side. And so I've been able to focus the kind of two buckets differently. You can optimize and the resources that you're putting on both sides. Wow, wow, that is so cool. I have, I am not familiar with that, so I'm fascinated with that to get back on track here. Um for somebody wanting to start segmenting their leads, Understanding the profitability of each channel. Where do you suggest they start? What's step 1? So step one would be like we talked about really about getting data and ensuring that you have...

...the right kind of data. And then the second part of it would be developing a combined and shared understanding about that. So I'll assume, for example, that maybe a listener has already some customers in revenue. And so the first thing they can do is make sure that they have visibility into what has happened throughout the entire funnel. So not just looking at it from the google analytics and maybe like cost per lead, but looking further down, um which leads led to the type of, you know, product engagement that the sales team is looking for or ultimately led to like sales qualified or closed one. So those for the further you can get data back up the funnel to work from the better. And then I think the second part of that is really thinking through how you can add if you don't have that, I guess it's how you can pull that data together in a small team. You might be lucky as you can kind of pull a lot of those things together, um, yourself or have access to them already, like the revenue metrics and things. If you're in a larger team, you might have, you...

...know, your marketing, um, that's responsible for generating a certain type of lead and then after that point it's really only sales that's responsible for what happens afterwards, etcetera. So I think that's really when it becomes a cross functional effort to, you know, pull all of those things together. Look at the funnel is juan and see and have a shared understanding again of what are the different types of conversion points that you're ultimately trying to optimize for or increase with each campaign. Can you speak to any roadblocks somebody might encounter or any red flags they should be aware of on this journey? Yeah, I think the two things, one is just like a mental roadblocks. It can be hard to pull back on things that you're you kind of want to assume are true. And so you might have a lot of infrastructure. It could even be a team, for example, that's built around servicing a type of lead that is just unprofitable for the company. And so making those decisions can be hard. The other one, which I mentioned briefly earlier is it, you know, B two B Oftentimes has pretty low volume across a wide variety of...

...channels. You might be getting 10 leads per channel of a certain type. And so the difference between closing one out of those 10 deals might make or break your entire marketing campaign, and so it's, you have to be careful not to shut that, shut off longer term periods to really get a good picture. And so you do have to be willing to invest in advance to be sure you're getting to that kind of data confidence threshold. If somebody were to take one thing away from this episode, what would you want it to be? Yeah, just no two leads are the same. The faster that you can develop that sense of segmentation. That's right for your business, the better you'll be able to streamline and optimize your marketing activities and your team. And so I think that the goal should be defined not to over optimize in this process. Either you could segment your customer to potentially thousands of different ways, but maybe think through like 3-4 max so that you're getting the largest possible relevant segments for your business. I'm thinking about the entire lifecycle...

...is one so that you can then work backwards to optimize in those groups in the best way possible. Well this is absolute gold dust Ryan. Thank you so much for joining me today. Where can people go to learn more about you and work Pulse? Yeah, a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Lynton is always the best way to reach out. I love chatting about this stuff. So feel free to reach out if you're interested to connect and you can learn more about work pulse at work pulse dot com, pulse without the awesome. Well, thank you again for joining me on the tv growth. Are you on linkedin? That's a stupid question. Of course, you're on linkedin here. So the fish, we've gone all in on the platform, multiple people from our team are creating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me. Other times it's a micro video or a slide deck and sometimes it's just a regular old status update that shares their unique point of view on BB marketing leadership or their job function. We're...

...posting this content through their personal profile, not our company page and it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with each of our evangelists, we'll be adding more down the road. But for now you should connect with Bill Read, our ceo Kelcy Montgomery, our creative director Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth Logan, Lyles, our director of partnerships and me, James Carberry. We're having a whole lot of fun on linkedin pretty much every single day and we'd love for you to be a part of it.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1704)