B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2105 · 1 month ago

Segment Your Leads - Start Seeing Results

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk to Ryan Fyfe, acting CMO at Workpuls.

Yeah. Hey everyone welcome back to be, to begrowth. I'm Olivia Hurley with sweet fish media and today I'm joined by RyanFife of work pulse. Hey Ryan, how you doing? Doing well. Thanks for having meon the show. Olivia. Oh well, absolutely. I'm so glad we get to talktoday. Ryan before we hit record, we were talking about Ways that marketersmight be tripping up and you were saying that it's treating all leadsequally, that people get in trouble. You were saying we should startsegmenting the leads, focusing on lead scoring and understanding theprofitability of each channel. So I definitely want to unpack all of that.Let's start right at the top. Why do you think B2B marketers should stoptreating all leads equally? Yeah, I love this conversation. Um, no twoleads are created the same and I think the faster that any B2B company candevelop a sense of, you know, segmentation on on one axis and scoringon the other. They can more finely tuned both the capital spend thatthey're doing to acquire leads and also their internal, you know, like humancapital as well. And then optimize both of those accordingly. I've had thepleasure of seeing kind of the positives of, you know, implementingsegmentation on one side and being able to, you know, cut off losers doubledown on winners. And then I've also seen kind of the negatives that happenif you let these types of things go for too long without separating out orsegmenting leads. So an example of that is, you know, kind of washing all leadsinto one bucket and assuming they're profitable and then stepping on the gason some paid channels that were extreme losers and then not being able toreally understand or optimize the channels that really are working well.So, so curious what have you seen and why do you think that not everyoneoperates like that? Um, I think it depends on the scale of the company andthere's probably on this startup scale,...

...you might just not have enough data yet.And so you might be scared to start thinking about segmentation too early,which I agree is something to definitely be cautious of. And then onthe other end of the spectrum it might be, you know, you just don't haveaccess to enough of the data, maybe that data siloed in a largeorganization and you're not able to get kind of the bottoms up information bylooking backwards from where your customer base is now. So that's thingslike, um, you know, churn rates the lifetime value of your customers thathave been with you for a while and then you can work backwards from that tofigure out which channels and marketing initiatives led to those types ofhealthier customers, fascinating. So can you walk me through how somebodymight start segmenting their leads, how they might start focusing on leadscoring? Yeah, I think there's a number of things. So again, it comes back tosort of what the stage that you're at, the first part is data. And so you canthink about getting data from analytics at the very high level for things thatare happening on your website. But I think that data really needs to bemarried or paired with the data that comes kind of from your existingcustomer base to really understand how the marketing initiatives ultimatelyled to the healthiest types of revenues. Because ultimately all marketinginitiatives will lead to some sort of results just they won't, all theresults always won't be created equally. And then the other part is actuallythinking about what type of segmentation is relevant for your typeof business. Because we're speaking B two B. I think a lot of the same thingsapply to, you know, 90% of B to B companies. So these are things likewhich channel ultimately did the leads come from? Was a word of mouth paidorganic search. Was it retargeting? Was it based on a content campaign, thosetypes of things. Then you can think of segmentation, the kind of like customerfit. What is the size of the SMB mid market enterprise? Every I've neverseen two businesses that have the same...

...definition of those either. And I thinkthat's okay. I think the goal is to always try to group your customers intothe fewest amount of meaningful buckets that allows you to make actionabledecisions are actually treat them correctly without over optimizing forthat. Things like industry geography, that all falls more under segmentationand then we like to think about it kind of that on one access. So what is theideal customer fit and then kind of a scoring attribute on the other for howready are they? Have they touched our website once and seeing the brand havethey interacted maybe with a form attended a webinar, those types ofactivity metrics for we look at that and generating kind of like an SQL so amarketing qualified lead. And then again going further into the funnel tolike a product qualified or sales qualified lead because it's ultimatelyat each one of those conversion points, you're going to get a higher level ofconfidence that those leads are going to be the right types of leads thatturn it to the right types of customers. That's not an exhaustive list. Again,no two businesses are the same, but it's a good I think framework to startthinking about it. Hey, everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you've beenlistening to the show for a while, you know where big proponents of puttingout original organic content on linked in. But one thing that's always been astruggle for a team like ours is to easily track the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I was really excited when I heard about Shield theother day from a connection on, you guessed it linked in since our teamstarted using Shield. I've loved how it's led us easily track and analyzethe performance of Arlington content without having to manually log itourselves. It automatically creates reports and generate some dashboardsthat are incredibly useful to see things like what contents beenperforming the best and what days of the week are we getting the mostengagement and our average views proposed. I highly suggest you guyscheck out this tool if you're putting out content on linked in and if you'renot, you should be, it's been a game changer for us. If you go to Shield appdot Ai and check out the 10 day free...

...trial, you can even use our promo codeB two B growth to get a 25% discount. Again, that's shield app dot Ai. Andthat promo code is B the number to be growth. All one word. All right, let'sget back to the show. So what results have you seen? Wow everything andanything? So, you know, from shutting off campaign losers, just kind offiguring out that certain channels aren't effective for us. So example isSND or Micro s nds are always very hard to generate positive. Our Ally active.And so if you can figure out which channels, for example, are bringingbigger leads versus smaller leads, that's a huge like immediate our Ally.One of the things that we we recently run and this is something that I liketo kind of continually do is what I call a jennifer experiment, which is weturn one of our, we create basically a virtual ghost sales rep that iscompletely driven by marketing and marketing targets that at a specificsegment that is less profitable for us to work on on the sales side. And wesee how kind of the marketing bought ghost can compare against our livehuman reps. And over time you can sort of compare the differences, try tomimic the behaviors of your live reps. And so an example that we just ran iswe completely removed our human sales reps to replace kind of, by thisjennifer bought, which is getting very similar results while doing itcompletely On the marketing side. It's a way to kind of, you know, friendly,create competition, ensure that you're always focusing your highest valuesales resources on the best opportunities and then trying to moveto a no touch, low touch model that is more marketing and content driven. Sothat's another kind of fun example. So I'm fascinated by this. Can we take arabbit trail here and explore jennifer...

...a little bit more? Absolutely, yeah. Socurious what was the impetus for creating the ghost sales rep? It's acombination of things. So that jennifer actually comes from something I pickedup from one of the early founders from Zendesk. They ran a jennifer experimentthere and I was fascinated by how they did that and just kind of the thoughtprocess of always challenging the status quo. And so I think the toolstack that we have as marketers available today, it's pretty incrediblewhat we can do. And that's not even getting into like the true a I boughttype stuff on that side, but just from a marketing automation perspective, theamount of data and how integrated that can all be across devices, acrosschannels. So our ability, I think to do a lot more and replace a lot of whatwas taking our live reps in the past, it's just so much better. And so weshould always be challenging ourselves to, you know, see how much further inthe funnel that we can get them as marketers or if we can get them throughthe funnel exclusively before we hand off to our counterpart in sales. And sowhen we see it are, I've seen this both my previous startup as well as this oneis especially on the lower end of the spectrum, you can almost exclusivelyget them through with marketing with with a good collaboration betweenmarketing and product. And then naturally we can't asmarketers respond to things like RFP security questionnaires and a lot ofthe stuff that comes in more on the enterprise side. And so I've been ableto focus the kind of two buckets differently. You can optimize and theresources that you're putting on both sides. Wow, wow, that is so cool. Ihave, I am not familiar with that, so I'm fascinated with that to get back ontrack here. Um for somebody wanting to start segmenting their leads,Understanding the profitability of each channel. Where do you suggest theystart? What's step 1? So step one would be like we talked about really aboutgetting data and ensuring that you have...

...the right kind of data. And then thesecond part of it would be developing a combined and shared understanding aboutthat. So I'll assume, for example, that maybe a listener has already somecustomers in revenue. And so the first thing they can do is make sure thatthey have visibility into what has happened throughout the entire funnel.So not just looking at it from the google analytics and maybe like costper lead, but looking further down, um which leads led to the type of, youknow, product engagement that the sales team is looking for or ultimately ledto like sales qualified or closed one. So those for the further you can getdata back up the funnel to work from the better. And then I think the secondpart of that is really thinking through how you can add if you don't have that,I guess it's how you can pull that data together in a small team. You might belucky as you can kind of pull a lot of those things together, um, yourself orhave access to them already, like the revenue metrics and things. If you'rein a larger team, you might have, you know, your marketing, um, that'sresponsible for generating a certain type of lead and then after that pointit's really only sales that's responsible for what happens afterwards,etcetera. So I think that's really when it becomes a cross functional effort to,you know, pull all of those things together. Look at the funnel is juanand see and have a shared understanding again of what are the different typesof conversion points that you're ultimately trying to optimize for orincrease with each campaign. Can you speak to any roadblocks somebody mightencounter or any red flags they should be aware of on this journey? Yeah, Ithink the two things, one is just like a mental roadblocks. It can be hard topull back on things that you're you kind of want to assume are true. And soyou might have a lot of infrastructure. It could even be a team, for example,that's built around servicing a type of lead that is just unprofitable for thecompany. And so making those decisions can be hard. The other one, which Imentioned briefly earlier is it, you know, B two B Oftentimes has pretty lowvolume across a wide variety of...

...channels. You might be getting 10 leadsper channel of a certain type. And so the difference between closing one outof those 10 deals might make or break your entire marketing campaign, and soit's, you have to be careful not to shut that, shut off longer term periodsto really get a good picture. And so you do have to be willing to invest inadvance to be sure you're getting to that kind of data confidence threshold.If somebody were to take one thing away from this episode, what would you wantit to be? Yeah, just no two leads are the same. The faster that you candevelop that sense of segmentation. That's right for your business, thebetter you'll be able to streamline and optimize your marketing activities andyour team. And so I think that the goal should be defined not to over optimizein this process. Either you could segment your customer to potentiallythousands of different ways, but maybe think through like 3-4 max so thatyou're getting the largest possible relevant segments for your business.I'm thinking about the entire lifecycle is one so that you can then workbackwards to optimize in those groups in the best way possible. Well this isabsolute gold dust Ryan. Thank you so much for joining me today. Where canpeople go to learn more about you and work Pulse? Yeah, a pleasure. Thanksfor having me. Lynton is always the best way to reach out. I love chattingabout this stuff. So feel free to reach out if you're interested to connect andyou can learn more about work pulse at work pulse dot com, pulse without theawesome. Well, thank you again for joining me on the tv growth. Are you onlinkedin? That's a stupid question. Of course, you're on linkedin here. So thefish, we've gone all in on the platform, multiple people from our team arecreating content there. Sometimes it's a funny gift for me. Other times it's amicro video or a slide deck and sometimes it's just a regular oldstatus update that shares their unique point of view on BB marketingleadership or their job function. We're...

...posting this content through theirpersonal profile, not our company page and it would warm my heart and soul ifyou connected with each of our evangelists, we'll be adding more downthe road. But for now you should connect with Bill Read, our ceo KelcyMontgomery, our creative director Dan Sanchez, our director of audiencegrowth Logan, Lyles, our director of partnerships and me, James Carberry.We're having a whole lot of fun on linkedin pretty much every single dayand we'd love for you to be a part of it.

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