B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1710 · 8 months ago

Blending Sales Enablement with Demand Generation, with Tabitha Adams


In this replay episode, Lesley Crews talks with Tabitha Adams on precision demand marketing, blending sales enablement with demand generation, and developing a "people first, outcome second" mindset.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth, coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benj Block, and joining me from Nashville, Tennessee our director of growth here at sweetfish, Dan Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, our creative content lead, Emily Brady. So here in ten minutes or so we are going to share a throwback episode, a conversation on blending sales enablement with the man generation with Tabitha Adams. Before we get to that conversation, we are doing show and tell. It's a Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Dan, Emily and myself. We bring something that we are seeing, something that intrigues us, and today, Emily, it's your turn. Tell us what you're focused on and what you want to bring today. Yeah, so today I'm bringing kind of like a classic Linkedin influencer Post that you see multiple times of weeks. I thought of you worth talking about, and he's talking about how he generates leads on Linkedin and it's this breakdown of, like, you post so much on Linkedin, you engage with other people on Linkedin and then, like he sends so many like DM's every day and I was reading the comments. There were a lot of comments and a lot of people are saying like, well, how do you actually go about sending DM's? Because that feels uncomfortable, and I totally get it, because I spend a lot of time creating content on Linkedin and engaging with people in Linkedin, but I rarely ever send DM's because it feels like unnatural to me. But we're, I mean even at swe fish, we're trying to get better at engaging with our target accounts and having conversations with them. So I thought it could be interesting to talk about, like what is a good strategy for reaching out to someone on Linkedin, or is there? Is there a good strategy? Is there a better way? So I don't know, maybe I'll throw this one s a Dan, because I feel like you do this a lot more than I do. So tell us, tell us how you reach out to people in Linkedin' Dan, if you have an ask or something. Well, I mean there's a few different methods. The one I've used the most in the past is just making a list of people I'd like to get to know and then dming all of them to be on my podcast right, classic content based networking, and that's one of the best thing easiest ways to just like shoot up a DM and you can even copy and paste the DM big if, especially if they're all kind of like the same line of work, they're all directors of marketing for BEDB companies, and then you just send a three sentence message that says, Hey, I'm interviewing directors of marketing at be tob companies and I'd love to interview you on our on our show bedb growth. Interested. Like it's as simple as that. Copy paste, Bam, Bam, Bam, Bam Bam, right, and then it comes with an invite request D m. Some of them respond back, some of them don't respond. If they don't respond, I'll follow up and then if they don't follow up again, I might email them. Right. So it's classic content based networking cadence right there. But if you're not going to go that route, there's a few other ways. Recently I've become obsessed with linkedin sales navigator and I'd had a subscription before, but Dang like, I'm never going back. I'd almost going to be like anywhere I've ever work in the in the future or if it's for myself, I'm going to have a linkedin sales navigator subscription and it's kind of Pricey at seventy five, eighty bucks a month or something. But what it does is now, and I've only started this maybe, like we've done, started doing this as a team right, as a bunch of us doing this, where we've created a list of accounts we'd love to build relationships with. But instead of doing it all through content based networking through the podcast, what you do is you can define your accounts right, find all those people on, and sales navigator makes this easy. You can go on, just identify, okay, for this specific company, who's everyone that works in marketing? Okay, AD I'm for me, not everybody in our teams doing this, but I'm adding the whole marking department to a quote unquote lead list, and then you can take your lead list and see all the posts that have come through that...

...lead list. Right. So it could be from multiple accounts, everyone who works in marketing, or from certain titles within marketing, rights only directors and VP's within marketing, whatever, whatever you're targeting, right, and then I get to see every single post and then I try to comment on every single I can comment on all the post coming from my lead list right. Some of those, a lot of those people, you know, they see it. I'm often the only comment on their post and if I'm leaving a substantial comment, chances are they're like, Oh, who is this guy? You know? So they click through and they check up my profile. Of course they probably take a look at what I do. But if they reply back and or if they like spend a few seconds looking at the comment and interacting with it, maybe liking it, chances are they're probably going to see my next post, right because they probably only have a few hundred connections, like most people on Linkedin, and I'm probably going to be one of the few people like posting the most of all the people they're engaging with. So they're probably going to see me out out there and on their feed. So you start doing this a mass and all of a sudden you're interacting with lots of people from one company and that you start to almost like activate a company, like a company that wasn't seeing your content before is now seeing your content. So that's kind of been the new approach I've had to engaging with linkedin. No DMS, though that's a thing I haven't done as much of. That's exactly where I wanted to go because I love that approach. I think there's so much value there. Clearly I have the benefit of like reaching out to someone with be tob growth as like a pitch. So I've thought about like what outside of that, because I'll say when I reach out, I reach out as be to be growth. I don't reach out as sweet fish, and sometimes you end up in conversations where they're very aware that you have a podcast and they're not so aware of that. We are to use internal language. We we want to be the dentist, right, we want to be the person that knows how to do the thing and does the thing and if you have questions, you ask us, right. So if you have questions on podcasting, Hey, come to me, come to Dan and come to someone on our team that's thinking and doing podcasting day and day out. One of the highest compliments that I feel like I can be paid is, after I do an interview, someone saying like, Dang, I'm taking notes on for our podcast or this thing that you guys did that we really want to do right. So I love and I'll read his comment because he says first I engage on their content, then I send a personalized connection request. When they accept, it turns into a DM and then I send a message. That is basically, and so I'll read this. He says thanks for accepting, looking forward to connecting more. One sentence about what I do and if you have if you ever have questions, reach out. I can say I had that happen this week. Someone who's a video editor reached out to me and said I make micro clips. I actually I liked the message. He didn't try to over personalize and act like he knew me. He was a saying hey, thanks for accepting my connector quest if you ever need a video, let me know and if you would want or be interested in pricing, like reach out. And he said that from the from the get cause, like I'll connect with you, and I actually told him I was like, we're not looking for videos right now, but it is something I'm very aware of. So like, send me your pricing so at least have it on file for later and that's fair game. On linkedin to me. So here's here's the shift in my brain is we've talked about personalized video if you feel like you're at that point with someone and you could shoot them a video down the road. I think that's great. But as a first time connect to just go hey, if you ever have questions on podcasting, you're probably going to see me posting a lot about it. I'm here to answer any questions you have. So like so grateful that we're now connected. I kind of want to add that, so I'm not just reaching out from be tob growth, but I'm also saying beyond just the show, this is the area of expertise that I want to talk to you about, and I really liked how he brought that up from a DM side of things. Yeah, that's really good. I totally agree with those are the messages that I'll respond to more if they're just like hey, here's what I'm offering you. What do you think, because then it's like it doesn't feel as shady, I guess, just to be up front about those things. But I'm wondering, like what...

...do you if you don't have a podcast? Like, what would your DM look? You know, well, what do you? I like, let's just brainstorm for you real quick. I'm only like, what's the thing that you because I would say if I'm connected with you, I probably want to know about how you're doing stuff on ticktock and I want to know about the evangelist program and just even honestly, something I super admire about you is just how much freaking content you can create. Like I cannot the amount of content you can write is like mind blowing to me. So I'm like, if I'm connecting with Emily, I want to learn how to do that. So if you were to DM me and go hey, if you ever have questions on creating content on anything like that side of things, I'm here to help answer those questions. It's not quite a sales pitch, but he's different. The Post were reading is different because we're not truly trying to like close a sale necessarily. We're trying to build awareness and we're just trying to have ongoing call versation. So to me that's your kind of value prop it's like I add, yeah, I don't know. Now that's very cool thinking in terms of, like we say, everything on Linkedin is to build a relationship, right, so you're commenting on their stuff to build relationship. You're posting valuable content to start conversations build relationships. So then, why do we think that that ends with the DM? Like all right, now I can send a message. That is the sales pitch. Know, that can still be the relationship, that can be exactly what you just said, Benjie, which I love, and we'll probably start trying now. Like, thanks for connecting. Here are some things I know about. Let me know if you have any questions about it. I'd love to know about this thing that you know about. Like that's genuine. That's, you know, perpetuating that mission of building relationships and then obviously, like hopefully you you land a sale that way in the end, but like that's not the goal, right, that's just like the perk of it. So I, like you literally just blew my mind because I was like, man, I always think of DM's as like pitches, but they don't have to be. They're just continued conversation. Yep, and if it's so interesting, because we all like being able to say what you do to someone can feel scary at first, but with repetition, just going, I know this is how I can add value, even just in like a conversation and not a way like are you going to hire me, but just like this is what I've learned in the process. I really admire those people. I've ended up on a number of zoom calls since I came to sweet fish, where there's no yil involved. It was just like US throwing questions back and forth at each other. That helps shape the way that I do the thing that I do, and I'm sure it helped them as well, and I do think. I mean we talked about the amount of numbers from our Linkedin evangelist program that we saw in sales that we can attribute to Linkedin. We know that that is possible. This is just another phase of that. In my mind, like let's just let people know what we are good at. This conversation so good. It's brought an idea to me, because I'm like, one what the poster worked, referencing that will freaking work for sure. And on my yes, in my mind I'm like that it's just it's just going to work. You just send up enough DM's. It's not cringey and it's straightforward. You will get business from it, for sure. One other tweak that you can make to it if you're not desperate for money now, but you can hold back a little bit and you'll get more money later. I think from doing this is, instead of offering a paid service, offer a free service. I mean something really simple that's easy for you to execute, or content or a subscrict newsletter. But essentially you can use the same tactic to grow an audience. Like I can see myself sending people like personalized videos or even just the same video and like hey, thanks for accepting my connection request. I love helping people start podcast, personal or business ones, and I if you. If you're not starting one, no problem, but if any time you are, I want to be there to help. Ask Me Anything, and then they know I'm the podcast guy.

Now, if they are in the market for a podcast, then then they're probably going to call me anyway right or ask me some questions. But at the same time I'm cementing my position in their minds and they're probably a little bit more interested in checking out content right and subscribing to what I have gone on, especially if I have a call to action, being like hey, check out this guy that I made. I think it might be helpful if you're looking for it right, and if they go and read the guy now they're consuming your content. Become taking first steps to becoming an audience member and that's that's scalable, at least on Linkedin. Well, you can only do so much on send so many DM's on linkedin before they ban you. So you're going to say if you have a paid account on Linkedin, I don't know what the number is, but you get way more. It's interesting because when we talk about we've obviously we talked about podcasting a lot, but I was thinking about how I reach out for be to be growth. There is an element of like it's pretty cool that you get to come on this awesome marketing podcast, and so I'm adding value to you by creating content with you. But you're also asking of them like their time and your you are like, from the very first connection, request you are you're asking them something, versus in this approach, you I can't do this every time, right, because I still am like looking at people and wanting them to be guess on the show, but if I was using this, it's almost just like hey, I'm so glad we're connected and like, if you ever need this type of value add, here I'm in. I'm the one waiting to like add value to you, and so I can see how this is really it's just an attitude of being helpful. It comes across a lot different than other approaches. So Emily, final thoughts here before we wrap this this fascinating conversation up. I mean, I think we've covered everything and even gone a little over time, but this is really valuable and I feel like for me, you guys have inspired me to send more messages. That's what I'm going to end. It's hard to send more messages. That's about it, all right? Well, on that note, let's jump into today's throwback episode, how to blend sales enablement with demand generation, with Tabitha Adams. Enjoyed this conversation and have a great weekend everybody. Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Leslie Cruz with Sweet Fish Media, and today we will be continuing our deep dive into demand generation. Joining me today is tabit the Adams, the senior demand marketing manager over at in a great Tabitha, thank you so much for joining me day. Yeah, thank you for having me. Absolutely and, for those listening, in a grate is the leader in precision demand marketing, which is a new emerging category to help be tob marketers develop and deliver an Omni Channel Demand Strategy, convert leads to revenue and drive marketing Roi Tabitha, do you mind sharing just a little bit about your role at in a grate and kind of what your daytoday looks like, and also how your role has evolved over time? Him Yeah, sure, I'll start more with the history, I think, especially with the more demand context. What is happening in demand generation? It's an interesting seeing how my role is kind of evolved over time. When I first started coming out of college, it was more focused on demand generation. In terms of lead generation, what are you doing to bring in more volume? How are you increasing your companies awareness as a marketer? Then how are you finding more leads, leads being the keyword there for your sales team today, in agree, I think it's really evolved more into how do we connect with their buyers. So, as a senior manager for demand, it's more focused on how do I create new conversations with the prospects for targeting and how do I make sure that our marketing efforts are across the channels that matter most to buyers, which has been really interesting, especially with our precision demand marketing launched, because we're thinking more about how do we aligned that buyers process. I'm sure you've seen a lot of other articles are research, but I think there's there's this bigger idea that buyers are more and...

...more digitally focused. So making sure that our efforts are around the channels they want to engage with us in and we're giving them the right content has really been key to how my role is evolved here at integrate. To how does demand generation change with your view of precision demand marketing? Are they one in the same? Do you feel like Demandin as a subset of that? I think demand generation is more of our internal kind of engine to support precision demand marketing. So one thing I'm thinking about more is my role evolves and I support this messaging. For our company it's more about how do I engage with not only individual buyers or again that volume piece of demand generation, but also attract the right accounts and meet with the right demand units within each account. A lot of this has been driven by our marketing leadership. I love the idea. We talk a lot about the buyers journey and it's not just this methodical framework or a theory, but it's more put into our practice with our demand team as we think about what are we doing from awareness all the way through to deal acceleration, and how do we use that buyers drain to make sure we're staying focused on the buyer again and not thinking about demand in terms of volume or just a number of leads or engagement we're having at the top of the funnel. That's really interesting and that kind of brings me to my next question actually, because a few years ago you presented something called marketing beyond marketers, blending sales enablement with demand generation. To anyone listening, this is a really insightful presentation. You can find over on Tabith is Linkedin, but I would love for you to share more about this presentation and more specifically where you talked about that. People First, outcome second, and also solution based marketings. Do you mind diving into that? Yeah, let me start with more where that presentation came from. I think that really come out of the fact that I was starting with more of a startup organization within D length, the company I worked with at the time, and one thing we are trying to figure out is how do we ramp up our marketing efforts with a really small team, so I was one of two or three people on the marketing side. We add myself, leading demand content marketer, and partner marketing, and then we had about four or five SDRs. So it was really more to how do we equip the sales team to help us with our marketing efforts and this realization that it's not really about our marketing goals or sales full but really we're trying to reach the same people and gage more interest from the same buyers. So how do we work together and kind of equip each other for that conversation? So one thing that really came out of that was more thinking beyond marketing goals, marketing objectives and putting the buyer first, which is where more of that people first, outcome second came from. So starting more internally, how do I equip the sales team with the right tools and processes to generate interests with their buyers and making sure they can see what topics are most interesting to their buyers, what channels they need to kind of focus on to engage with them, and then how do they measure that based off the people they're talking to, not just number of activities or number of form fills? We were seeing on the back end. Yeah, switching gears a little bit here. Why do you think that demand generation is so widely criticized? You know, I see a lot of people who are talking about, Oh, demand Jen is just just marketing, it's not anything, and I think that's you know, it's always criticized by people who follow the ABM approach specifically. So I do you think that is? Yeah, I think there's two things happening here. First is that demand has become synonymous with lead generation instead of thinking of demand generation more holistically. I think the second part is because of the account based marketing approach. We see that there are marketers that think of ABM is the way to connect more with their sales team and generate more of those conversion programs, versus demand being more of this top level acquisition focus, when really demand should include both awareness, conversion and even the expansion pieces. And that's where I feel like you see more of EBM becoming a tactic within your demand tool belt instead of them being contrasted or, like you're saying,...

...these debates that are happening where ABM is kind of put head to head with demand and they're being separated. Really they should be both used together to create more of that personalized experience and again focusing more on the buyer. Instead of US an account based marketing approach, or is us a demand approach? Hey be to be gross listeners. We want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to BDB growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus. The first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. That's BB growth podcom, letter B number two, letter be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to enter. I look forward to hearing from you. So do you think that the reason it is so widely criticized is because it's kind of tied to how demand and ABM are presented in the overall funnel? Yeah, I think, going back to what kind of what I was saying before, sometimes demand gets equated with just that top level awareness when you're thinking of your funnel, it's that first entry point of are we targeting our ideal customer profile and are we getting enough volume in terms of engagement versus ABM has often been equated to how are we further supporting sales or that more conversion part of the funnel, when really what I think is happening now is that the two things shouldn't be silo. Both of them are used to create more of that personalized experience and demand now is more about solving that pain point of reaching buyers based off their role or based off the channels they're engaging across. It's not that volume play. So I think if we can kind of move past demand being synonymous with awareness, we'd see more of the similarities between account based marketing and demand and it being more one focused on the buyer versus ones focused on your accounts or your demand unit. What do you see changing in how people are modernizing their demand approach? I think the big one. I think we've seen this a few different ways, but it's been more about that funnel. I feel like we're seeing less of the standard, Oh Gosh, I wish we had like a slide for this, but you're wider at the top narrow at the bottom funnel. And then with ABM we had reverse sing it being more focus on a very small amount of target accounts, while now I feel like we're moving more to what I was saying about integrate this journey framework or being less about volume, converting to your ideal prospects at the bottom to hey, let's think about what we're doing across the journey. Volume aside, are we seeing engagements from the people that we want to talk to, from those that are interested in our product, and are we surrounding our complete addressful market by using things like intent or having more of that multi channel to the Golden Buzz Word Omnichannel experience for our buyers? Yeah, and going off of that, do you have any best or maybe favorite demandion practices that you want to share and you know, feel free to share some examples that you've worked on in the past as well. I think one of them has been this idea, again, of blending account based marketing with demand so when you're building out your program instead of thinking about segmentation first, think more about the goal of the outcome you want your buyer to take. This has been more, I guess, a mindset change versus a programmatic change, but it has allowed myself, and I know some of my teammates to also think through what are we doing? That's very focus on our ICP and our key personas, and then how does that lead to an ABM strategy or a strategy by channel? That way you make sure you don't have siloed efforts, for email versus social or even versus some of your content pieces like Webinars, but instead each of those are holistically at about based off...

...one goal or outcome for your buyers. How do you measure that success? How do you know if those campaigns are actually successful? So I know I mentioned at the beginning that leads shouldn't matter as much and demand is less about volume, but leads are still a great indicator for your program success. I just wouldn't say that should be your ultimate goal or KPI when you're thinking about this birecentric program what I have found, especially when as you're leaning into a new role or a new company as a demand marketer, make sure you emphasize that you want to be aligned with business outcomes. So how are you driving pipeline or how are you driving revenue through your programs? This does involve some kind of partnership or work with like your marketing offs team or salesops team. To understand how are you attributing that information from marketing, but aligning there also allows you to have a better partnership with sales, which I think is really the key indicator for success for demand marketers. If you can go to your sales team and they can tell you what programs are working well for them to connect with their prospects or to expand with their customers, and you know the partnerships there so you can take that information use it for new programs, then you know that you're driving more success because sales sees the benefit of it, not only from a volume perspective, but they see the kind of activity you're driving for the accounts or contacts they care about. Yeah, one thing that I love about, you know, this conversation I've been having with several people, is the sales and marketing connection and you know, I think that a lot of times it's there to completely separate areas. It's like sales is way over here and left field and then marketing is way over here and they kind of but heads a little bit. But I think what's really interesting about demand generation is that it involves that collaboration across both teams. Yeah, definitely I think that's where a lot of this ABM versus demand debate has come from. To is account based marketing has always been synonymous with a conversion based program where you're supporting sales and you're really prioritizing their sales target list. But that doesn't have to be isolated to account based marketing efforts. You can take the sales target list and incorporated into your general programs that you have that kind of surrounding the buyer experience in terms of what is sales care about? What accounts do we know are engaging based off in tent or even your internal reporting? And then who do we know? We need a target based off our personas or ICP. So then I think there's a lot marketers can do on that front. With that immediately thinking I need to integrate a new strategy like ABM or slowly focus my dollars or my effort on an account based marketing strategy. Yeah, I completely agree. And would you do you have any examples of those? Like what could marketers be doing there? You know, Leslie, think that's a good question. I think one thing marketers can do to start that is really understanding. Do we have enough program support across the buyers journey. I think when you look at your programs and you see that your emails are generating a lot of engagement or MQLS, or you had a Webinar and it generated five hundred new registrants but none of them are converting, then you can start to map out maybe I'm focusing too much on awareness or I have a lot up there in the front of the buyers journey, but that thing is converting to pipeline or two conversations down funnel. So if you can start to map your programs across those Bire journey stages and understand do I have enough here to surround the buyer, then you might have a better idea of how your partnering with sales and what efforts can sales use beyond that initial engagement as new leads or new respondence come in from your campaigns? This has been so insightful. Tabitha, thank you so much for joining me. And where can people find you online if they're interested in learning more? Yeah, definitely, Leslie. I love talking about this conversation de beating more about accountbase marketing versus demand. I'd love to connect with any of you via Linkedin. I'm also somewhat active on my twitter profile, but if you want to have this conversation further, reach out on linkedin first and they can always connect. Great, fantastic. Well again, thank you so much for joining me here on BB growth.

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