B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1675 · 3 months ago

The Vital Relationship Between Product and Growth Marketing with Arta Shita


In this episode, Benji talks to Arta Shita, Head of Growth Marketing at Testlio.

Often we discuss the importance of alignment between sales and marketing, but today Arta shines a spotlight on a relationship easily overlooked. The connection between Growth and Product marketing if done well may just unlock a new level of momentum for your organization.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. Welcome into be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and today I am joined by Arta Sheeta. She is the head of growth marketing at Teslio. Arta, thank you for joining us here. Thank you, Benji's so happy to be here. So here is what people should know. Maybe up top. You have been involved in three startups in six years, which gives you a really interesting vantage point that I think our audience is going to be able to learn from and Glean from today. Rattle off those companies for me real quick. So I started off my first startup job was at cognitive scale, and Ai Software Startup based out of Austin, Texas. So was there for a couple of years doing demanjon and mark cops, and then I moved on to quality. Up until recently they do devops farm situation, and then I'm now at Teslio. It's almost my two months here and I'm super excited to be here. Congrat thank you. That is wonderful. Okay, so in all three really of those experiences over the last six or so years, you've noticed a relationship that you would say is absolutely vital and should be strengthened if at all possible. Talk to me about what you've noticed there. Oh Yeah, now I'm actually seeing a lot more people talk about this, but one of the most crucial relationships, other than sales obviously for growth marketing, is that with product marketing. It's like literally Yin and Yang. So that for sure has been a relationship that I really love to foster. So let's go rewind real quick. Before this epiphany kind of hits you and you're like seeing it firsthand, you're going on product and growth. What were you seeing? I guess that cause the epiphany. What were you operating with? Like, what was the assumption there before this kind was like, oh, I need to strengthen this. Yeah, so you know, Hashtag start up life is a little bit tough because you have very limited resources a lot of the time. Sometimes start ups are really lucky, but you know, small teams you have to hit the ground running with a small budget, a small understanding of what's going on, because you don't have enough budget to really run sort of marketing experiments. So it was really a forcing function because I really needed to understand what's our ICP? What do they care about what's our bar's journey? HMM. We even have content that we can map and all of these things were like kind of the main kind of like the starting package that I needed in order to figure out what kind of activities I can, I can move forward with with my teeny tiny little budget, and that was crucial because you don't want to waste funny and grow good resources into the wrong audience. And who knows the right audience product marketing. So what's interesting there is in startup culture, I can see how it is a forcing function. You're just going to naturally almost take for granted that relationship because you have to have it right, like we have things that are but then as you scale people, I mean in the same way, you're really busy and start up, you're really busy as you scale to and then it's not that anyone's dropping the ball, but people just start to get more and more siloed by nature, I would say, and that's where you started to see this room for improvement or maybe optimization in the space right. Oh yeah, what were some of the maybe key benefits that you saw? When that relationship is super tight, the key benefits are having a partner that can help you and you're testing and validating. Obviously, you know, product marketing comes with the wealth of knowledge. They're the ones that are like really out there trying to figure out,...

...like, what is my target audience? What do they care about? What are their pain points? What kinds of things are they like reading up on? What kind of analysts are they going to and things like this. And if you take that information and you apply it, you also have to test it over time, and that's where product marketing needs to continue to stay a sort of like a gut check and you just continue like testing and validating and optimizing based on what you both are contributing to these campaigns. Hmm, any examples that you can give us, like to just make it drive this home and make it real practical. Yeah, so I'm actually doing this right now at test. So we are really trying to figure out our ICP and we're really trying to figure out like their real pain points, what do they really care about? And we have a brand new marketing team. It's had a very big growth in the last few months. It was like a super small shop and they were doing incredible things like getting as much content out there, but it was not exactly the right content for the audience. That okay, we are looking out for. So, instead of, you know, to keep it sort of like general, instead of creating content for the decision maker, we were creating content for the practitioner, and that's just a waste of time and resources right, kind of like what I mentioned earlier. So right now the growth team is collaborating with a product marketing team and we're trying to figure out, okay, who are what's our ICP? I keep saying that, but it's like that's the most important like what do they care about? What are the pain points? How do we provide the solution? What is the value we provide? And then you also take that one step further and you try to figure out, like, okay, what language do they speak in? If you have two campaigns and one is for, let's say, a VP of and naring and the other is for head of QA, they could go toward totally different vibes. Maybe they're they have different pain points they like. Maybe one of them doesn't care if they keep an eye on cost. Maybe one of them only cares how efficient their team is. So you have to make sure that you're addressing them correctly, and that's again we're product marketing comes in. They're like the constant gut check along the way. So a really like practical example. Right now we are totally restructing our ads. We're trying to figure out, you know, what kind of copies should go to, what kind of persona, what kind of then asset should be aligned to which campaign and which persona, and we do that alongside product marketing. They are the ones that are creating these assets. They're the ones who best know who the audience is for these assets and who will really get something out of it. And if it wasn't for that, we would just be doing ads blindly and very likely bringing the wrong asset to the wrong audience. Yeah, never good to go like fingers crossed. I hope this works, and that's why product marketing is so valuable. And Yeah, okay, you are a good example of this, not just because, I mean, you present fifty percent of this equation right. The other fifty percent is Jeff, someone else on your team who has really helped highlight the importance of this relationship, and you guys being on the same page has again brought this to light in a fresh way for you which is what got us talking about in the first place. Talk to me a bit about how that relationship works and I think we'll be able to glean some things from that specifically. Yeah, totally so. Jeff is my right hand man. He's the director of product marketing here at Teslio and we actually work together at quality and internally we were known as jarktuck because we were just, like I'm telling you, constantly unlock step.

So when it comes to working with Jeff, that's where I really learned what we can learn from each other. So I mentioned a lot of things that I got from him. He has, so would gain from our relationship to I mean, how terrible would it be if I was like the only one profiting from this partner's a taker, just a taker, but from us and from our experimenting on what's working and what's not working? He also gets to understand, like what message is resonating well, what channels are getting the highest conversions? Are the audiences actually going to these channels? Like, what does this persona care about versus this persona? Product Marketing isn't as data driven as growth, right, so he like leans on me to make those analytical decisions. To get to the right audiences and also to like back him up whenever we spend too much energy on the wrong platforms. I think that's like huge, because he can say something based on, you know, his own research and stuff, but if I come in with the data to back that up, that's like, oh, okay, yeah, you guys are right, we are spending is in the wrong channel or whatever. And then of course that testing invalidation. Not only do I gain from that, but he gains from it because he gets to see data driven sort of like analytics on what's working, what's not working, what keywords are great, what's resonating, and that's really important for his team, if I say so myself. If I say so myself, quoting Jeff, kind of okay, talk me through. You've had two projects that you've worked on together that I think highlight this well, in e Book and a Web series. Let spend some time on each. Will start with the the ebook first. Yeah, so that both were actually nominated for awards, which was like super exciting. But the Ebox, I mean that's yeah, that's mainly that's like literally ninety nine point nine Percent Jeff. He wrote it all. He sort of had like this technical understanding that I don't have. But how it came to fruition was he and I were looking over our campaigns together and one one exercise that I love to do alongside with product marketing, is mapping out of buyers journey and then also doing content mapping and doing like a content journey and figuring out where our current existing content pieces lie within that journey. Me that funnel. But it also helps you figure out what's missing. So within our debops campaign at quality, this beautiful ebook was missing and we were like if only we had this Ebook, and Jeff wrote it for us and it was great and it was like the highest highest converting asset ever literally the history of quality, and it was a really, really great effort. And then I ended up getting now made for a word. So it was really cool. That was a great thing and Jeff wouldn't have created that if it wasn't for us very consciously and thoughtfully mapping out our needs to support growth. Talk to me a little bit about that. The meeting the the meeting of the mind where you are mapping out what's needed and coming to that thought of like that's the ebook. You have the expertise like what's all involved? People are going to understand content mapping or a buyer's journey, but it's a little bit different or unique depending on the company you're in. So talk to me a little bit about that, that meeting and what's involved in that mapping. Yeah, so it's really important to go into that meeting prepared on both ends. If you go into that meeting like not having an understanding of what assets already exists, then you're failing because that is a huge part. And so, you know, put together a repository of what assets are there, figure out what assets are good to go...

...as is, then figure out which assets need like a very light refreshing, then figure out which assets need a full refresh or get rid of them all together. So that's step one. Step two is figuring out, okay, what are our campaigns, what are our personas within these campaigns, and how do we address these personas right what do they care about? So then that's you know, it's a lot of mapping involved, a lot of Whiteboarding, and then you go into okay, this is our persona, what does their journey look like? How do they hear from us? Are they actively researching or are they sort of waiting for something to fall on their lamb, beautifully packaged, and then we sort of you, we map out what content pieces already exist to support the content within that campaign, and that's where you see like, okay, we have a whole lot of top of the funnel stuff and we have, weirdly, a lot of bottom of the funnel stuff. We need something good midfunnel, you know, something that like somebody like of director would really enjoy reading. And then that's where this book came in. It was like the missing slot. And so it this was going back to the first step that you were discussing, like you aren't taking okay, we have all this stuff and we're going to repackage it into an ebook. We're instead, it's like we of a missing piece and we need something for that. Yeah, in that case it was definitely a missing piece, and other cases it was like, okay, we have this really beautiful white paper. How do we repurpose it? How do we chunk it up? Are there some blogs we can write about it? Can we make a short little explain or video about it? Can we do a video series episode I'm going to talk about later about it? All of these things that so many people do very well. Now, I think repurposing content is like a big duh nowadays, where it really wasn't a few years ago, it's. I'm glad it is now, right. I've had a couple episodes recently. It does make sense and I think, yeah, we went down a road where people kind of straight away from it, and especially right now and how fast things are moving, it's nice to reinforce the message, reinforce the time that you spent on that content, but like reinforce it in the minds of those that are consuming your content go back to it constantly. So I think that's great and re in in this case, what I'm even taking away from what you're saying is not on the that side, but instead, okay, you saw missing piece and when you're going back through old content you have, you're doing this together cross functionally. You're able to go, okay, where does this fit in our strategy? And even if you just did this like once a quarter or a couple times a year, you would start to see like, okay, here's these missing spaces, we should make more content for that part of the fun Ye, or that part of our strategy. Yep, one hundred percent. Okay. So we have talked about the Ebook side, which really was jeff and you informing some of that, but then when we go to the web series side, are to that was more you and then jeff bringing in some some things that would help it. So tell me about the web series and some of the origins there. Yeah, so this web series, I'm so passionate about it. So at cognitive scale, there was a way back in the day, way back a whole sax years ago, there was, I heard, dire need for video content, and that's where that's really about, the time that people were starting to get into things like that. And one day our like the VP of marketing was on a trip and it was like the perfect time for me to actually like get time to do something...

...that I want to do, that it meaning to do, and so my graphic designer and I we got like a twenty dollar tripod from best buy down the street and we set up my iphone and we started recording an interview with a really a genius product manager. Her name is Amanda Delamotte. I think she's at indeed now, but we thought to have the sort of like talk show where it's kind of like thought leadership be just an opportunity for us to learn more about the subject and have our audience sort of like tie us in with being the thought leaders in the space, and we thought that that was the best way to do it. And so Amanda and I had this interview and it turned out great and we put it up on Youtube and we put it out on social and everyone loved it and then we started interviewing more and more people and then we started interviewing customers and partners and really big, like super heavy hitters. I'm talking the CEO of Barclay's wealth UK, the CIO of Jackson national, like literally crazy people on this show and it really helped in and it's not something that demand Jen would normally do. It's something that again, it was like this missing piece of content and it was like the perfect opportunity for us to be the thought leaders in the space and to have cognitive skills logo alongside the logo of these giants around the world. Right HMM. Was Great and I've sort of copy pasted that into my roles. So at quality, at cognit of scale, was called the AI grind and actually we made it into a podcast back then and that was like super new. Yeah, podcast, we're odd thing back then, and that's honestly, that's I think a big part as to why it was industry recognized is because it was like what is this podcast, like, what the hell, and super cool. Then we brought it into or I brought it into quality and we called it qualify, like Quality Fyi, and that's where I again worked with Jeff on this, because a lot devops is hard, man. It's like really difficult to understand. You know what it even is like, what the solutions are, what the pain points are? It's a really hard concept and I needed Jeff to help me figure out what I need to be asking my guests. Right. So we were having guests on the show and they were like very technical people and a lot of the times I would be like, I'm no clue what to talk to these people about and I don't know how to make file in a node like those really great point. Yeah, sure, Dude, but definitely helped me. I mean we like prepped a lot of the Times beforehand and if you watch an episode, maybe you'd know that I had no idea what I was talking about, but you probably didn't because it was it was a collaboration and it was a great, great asset. I mean it's like one of these things. I encourage everyone to do it. It's one of these things that's like super easy. It's literally free, aside from like your time and internal resources, to like video edit, and it's great because you are establishing yourself as a thought leader in the space, not you personally, not Artashita, but the company that I'm representing right and so I'm doing it again at Teslio and we're going to potentially, oh my gosh, it's not even public yet, you're going to get a sneak peak everybody. How exciting is that? And Nice thinking of calling it the the Qa qn day. So since we do vally are at Teslio, what we it'll be really exciting and I'm super thrilled to work with Jeff again on that. So what would you say, having these two different projects you've worked on...

...together, like how has the special projects really then reinforced your relationship with Jeff and the synergy that you need between departments? They reinforced them because we were continuously collaborating and we were continuously like leaning on each other and and helping each other and that's really how you strengthen the relationship. What I'm about to say is like maybe sort of controversial, but I feel like commiseration is great. It leads to like joint problem solving and that's really how, like Jeff and I became bffs, as we were just commiserating on, you know, what things were going wrong or, you know, how we don't have enough XYZ or whatever, and that really led us to sort of like wait, why are we just commiserating? Let's like actually solve these problems together and fill any sort of gaps together. So I think that's great. And then also one thing that we both do very well is give each other a credit. My biggest pet peeve is when people do not publicly appreciate the people that help them in whatever project they're working on. I think that that's like, honestly, so underrated and a lot of times people don't realize that they're not doing it because I don't think it's purposeful a lot of the Times. But it really goes a long way because if you give, you know, public credit to somebody of on a great project, they're going to want to continue working with you because now they're motivated they're seeing like, oh, I was a direct contributor in the success of this project, I should continue working with this person, and it's like Duh, make people feel good. Hello. So yeah, that's what I would say. So, with all this kind of in mind, what you've learned over the last six years, what would you say to our audience as to maybe how to go about actually strengthening this relationship? I think you've talked about these working on these projects together. It's great. Maybe is there some recurring one on ones that the two of you who have set up or scheduled or anything they're like? What does it look like to strengthen that relationship? We do have recurring one on once and we call them Jarta thinks, and everyone will call them that now, like we do, and we I mean keep it friendly, like just have real conversations, care about the person. I think a lot of the Times people forget that, like we're working with fellow humans man, and right now, working from home especially, is like kind of hard to connect with people. So if you make an effort to connect with those that you work with more often, you're going to build that relationship naturally, and I think that's that's really important and then just, you know, reinforcing what I said a little bit earlier, is like lean on each other, but make sure to give each other credit, and that's that's the key I've I love. There's a Henry Ford quote says coming together is a beginning, keeping together is progress, working together is success, and having you and jeff work together at multiple companies, obviously that's a competitive advantage to you guys because you already have that established relationship, but to our audience I would just encourage. Yeah, I mean most of us are working remote. It can feel a little odd at first or mechanical to get the the momentum moving, but to have some of those recurring meetings with people cross functionally it adds so much to the organization overall and you never know what types of projects come out of it, what type of content comes out of it and even just the ideas that are generated in that space. So I love just man working together is is where so much of the success is going to come in our organizations and in our marketing teams are to thank you...

...so much for spending time with us. Thank you anything you want to say as we start to wrap this thing up, I just want to say have fun. You guys like be authentic, have fun and continue to be nice. I think that's the most important thing tbh. This good any ways that we can connect with you further. So for our audience, if they're is it linkedin or how can we do that, and then obviously plug the company as well and what you guys are doing. Yeah, so you can totally find me on Linkedin. I'm not the most active anymore. I think I'm gonna probably read that up again. So it's our Tahta a RTA, Sah I ta, and I'm working at Teslio. We do test management services it. I've only been here for a little less than two months and I'm already so thrilled. There's so much promise in this space and we're doing things that no one else is doing when it comes to software testing. So I'm super stoked to be here. Fantastic. It's been a pleasure to have you here with us, Arta, and feel free to stop by any time. Thank you so much, Bengee. Talk soon. Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish, we produce podcast for some of the most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts to Microvideos linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweetfish Mediacom.

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