How To Use Data to Predict Buyer Intent

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

 In this episode, Olivia Hurley talks to Kerry Cunningham, Senior Principal in Product Marketing at 6sense 

Hi everyone, welcome back to be, to begrowth. My name is Olivia Hurley and today I am joined by Carrie Cunninghamwhere you are the senior principal in product marketing at six cents. I'mthrilled to talk to you today because you shared with me the last time wetalked this really unique perspective in the way of A B. M. That I'm reallyexcited to impact because A B. M extremely popular. We hear a lot aboutthe front side of setting a strategy in motion, But I've heard hardly anythingabout this, not only 30,000 ft view, but but the start to finish, um, motion.And so I'm excited to unpack some of that with not only your experience as amarketing practitioner, but as a researcher coming from forster, couldyou share what you shared with me the last time we talked. Yeah, absolutely.I love too. And thanks for having me today. So one of the, there's kind of amisunderstanding in B2B today about uh, account-based marketing and and how itcame into being and what it's really supposed to be. And as you and I talkedabout before, what's really true is that back in the old days, back when Istarted in my career and B two B everything was account based becausenobody had any leads. And so if you were going to sell to a certain set ofaccounts as an organization, you have to understand what that set of accountswas. And then marketing's job was really just to create content andthings to enable sales teams to go penetrate those accounts. So back inthe old days, marketing and sales were pretty well aligned on what to do andit was account based because there wasn't really any other options, Sowe're not saying that's great. But then along in the late 1990s, early 2000scame digital marketing and particularly when marketing automation came along alittle bit later on, we started getting this influx of inbound leads peoplecoming to our websites and filling out forms or responding to emails and in asense, the B to B industry kind of got drunk on that. I mean it was prettycool after struggling to just do outbound prospecting forever from thebeginning of time. Now you have people coming and telling you who they wereand what they were interested in and give you their contact information.Pretty hard not to get drunk on that if you will and kind of over indulged. But what happened during the period oftime is that B two B organizations sort of forgot that the buyer would be to beis not an individual person. You may get somebody to come to your websitefrom a target account, fill out a form, but they're very, very unlikely to beacting alone. The research that we did at serious decisions in Forrester Showthere's something like between 85 and 95% of B2B purchases are made by groupsof people acting together and the number that varies, there is reallyjust because if you're selling an enterprise solution to a company, ifyou're selling something that's an important business system to anorganization of pretty much any size, it's going to be multiple peopleinvolved in that decision making process, just like the simplest thingthat everybody knows intuitively. But when you think about how that works,then when somebody comes to your website, if they're from a targetaccount, if they're actually going to buy something from your organization,they won't be alone. Right? That's the key thing to understand about this, isthat person that you see filling out the form. If they don't come withfriends, their organizations not buying anything if they're the only one onyour website. They're curious, uh they're interested in your solutionsfor professional reasons, maybe they're interested in the job or checking outthe competition to their own solutions or something, but they're not about tobuy anything. Now, it was very...

...difficult in existing systems though tosee whether that's happening. So if you're relying on marketing automation,typical marketing automation systems that most organizations use, you can'tsee that there are multiple people from the same organization demonstratinginterest at the same time, leads come in, somebody fills out a form and youmay do some lead scoring if they consume a bunch of content, uh and thenyou pass that along to an SDR B or somebody like that. And and and theseleads, these individuals just come in one at a time. And the thing that youmiss in that picture is, well, maybe you've gotten three or four leads fromthe same organization just in the last couple of weeks and you'd like to think that somebodyalong the way would notice that that was happening and we think tothemselves, wait a minute. You know, there's something happening in thisorganization. We've got three or four leads. Unfortunately, just the oppositehappens. What happens most of the time in that circumstance is that the secondlead goes to the same PDR process, the first one. And let's say that the BDRproduced an opportunity for sales from the first lead that came in, they getthe second one, they look at it and they go, well, I can't get anotheropportunity here because I just passed one along and sales is working on thatas a BDR s, I can't get paid now for working on that because I get paid forproducing opportunities. So to me, that's a duplicate lead, we alreadyhave an opportunity for that. Uh, and then the third one comes along and thefourth one comes along and the market all duplicates and off they go into theether, when rationally, if you step back and look at what's happening, yoube like your hair would be on fire to be like, oh my God, these people arereally interested, we need to make sure that sales knows about that, thateverybody takes appropriate action. It just isn't the way it works. And B twoB. Today. So you know, when you think about, you know, part of what the A B.M. Movement and B two B was trying to do is correct for that. Just like, okay,that's, you know, all of these leads are nice, but if they're not in theright account, if we don't have multiple of them. But the problem thenis that the systems that are in place operate the same way that they do. So ABM. You try your A B. M. Program, but if they're operating on top of the oldsystems that you have just marketing automation, in sales force automation,uh you're still not going to see that you have these multiple leads andyou're still relying on some human being to notice and then do somethingdifferent than what they would normally do sometimes happens, but most of usdon't want to run a company on that sometimes happens, right? Not reallywhat we want to have the organization based on. So that's what we're tryingto do is make it possible to see those find teams, those multiple individualsand all of the various kinds of signals that they give off on the way to makinga purchase decision for their organizations. That's fascinating to me.I'm super excited to talk about this. So, so right off the bat my questionsare around this lead scoring process. So In the 90s, I think you said leadscoring is new. We all got drunk off of it. Um, well I was four maybe, so Idon't think I was people drug. Yes, I would have been. We've been soexcited. So can you share a little bit about what, why lead scoring wasinaccurate and some of those assumptions that it was based on? Yes,sure. So you know, one of the things that, it makes total sense that whenyou have people coming to your website, they start consuming content. You wantto see which ones are really interested in which ones are not. And that's,that's why we have the scoring scoring is there to say, you know, it's justthe right kind of person that's part of the score and then are theydemonstrating a lot of interest or maybe they just came by our website byaccident. Now if you're a B2B organization, it's very unlikely thatpeople come to your website by accident.

You know, your graphics aren't so greatthat people are coming to come and look at what you're doing in that respect.So it sort of made sense to say, well we want to ferret out the reallyinterested ones and make sure that we can see those and the way that we'regoing to do that is, we're going to look at how much content a personconsumes on our website and if they consume a lot will score that and thenwe'll send the ones that consumed a lot more content on to the rest of theorganization. Uh, that seemed like it made sense at the time. There is a kindof logic to it. The problem is, I've never seen any evidence nor has anybodyelse. I think That there's a relationship between how much contentone individual person consumes and whether their company is about to buysomething. So lots of people go to websites and look at content for lotsof different reasons. And some of those reasons have to do with being part of abuying team. Many don't, most don't. And so most people are, they're justlooking at your content out of maybe some future interest. So past interest,but they're not part of an act of buying team. How do you tell if they'repart of an act of buying team? Well, like we just said a minute ago, theycame with friends, right? So now if you had two people from the sameorganization and they're both consuming a lot of content, that's a much muchstronger indication of their organization's interest than it is justone person. And if you add a third person, you think, wow, okay,something's really happening here, Right? So you can take that old leadscore that by itself doesn't actually mean much. And this is why marketingand sales have been divided on this issue for so long. Marketing's beensaying, hey, here's this guy is consumed. A lot of content has a nicetitle and sales has to follow up with that person when they do what they findout is that person was just consuming a lot of content, not part of the buyingteam. And so that's what we have to figure out. We have to figure out whichones are actually part of a buying process and that's the one that salesneeds to focus on. Okay, so the buyer is not a person, an individual personand and I love what you said to me last time you said the buyer is not anaccount and I love that you said that's not as wrong, but it's well wrong. Sothe buyer is now a group of people within an organization. So is the buyera department? Yes, that's a really good question and distinction to make. So ifyour organization sells more than one thing, that means that the account isnot the thing that you actually should be counting, right? So if you sellthree different solutions and account represents three differentopportunities for you to sell something, three different revenue opportunities.So if you're really trying to count what's going on in your data and howyou're doing in terms of converting prospects, what you really need to belooking at is how many potential opportunities are there and how many ofthose are converting now for most organizations? You might say well if wehave a solution for the HR department, we have a solution for the financedepartment then you have two different buying centers is the term that we useto different parts of the organization that that make their own decisionsabout what to buy for their organizations, how to solve theirproblems. And so really need to start counting is all right. How many howmany buying centers are out there? Um How many buying centres does eachorganization represent? And then each buying center is going to have its ownbuying team, its own team of people who are going to go out and solve problemsfor that buying center. And you know it can be confusing sometimes because ifyou're buying, if the HR department is buying a new solution, they're going tohave people from it on that buying team. All right. They're going to have peoplefrom outside of that department. Um And so that guy's the head of I. T. Here isgoing to look at solutions that the HRT advice that person might actually be aprospect and on another buying team that you're interested in as well. Allright. So it gets complicated but...

...that's the way it actually works. AndB2B and so the more that you can address that complexity, the moreaccurate your go to market plans can be your measurement of what's going on andall that can be. That's so Funny that that and notsurprising when you, when you explain it like that, that of course the buyingprocess in B to B2B space is as complicated and nuanced as like humanbuying decision anywhere else. But so Clarification again, is it that the inthe B2B space, the buyer is no longer an individual person or is it that theynever were just an individual person? Great. I love that question becausepeople are very, People are very fond of saying now, Oh, the virus changedand B2B I don't know that we know that, youknow, we didn't nobody kept track of how many people were involved even upuntil very recently. But it's really unlikely that in the 1970s, if you'regoing to buy an IBM mainframe, that there was one person making thatdecision, I'm pretty sure there were dozens of people involved in thatdecision for your company and the same thing all the way up through all theway through the history of the baby. So I don't think in terms of whether it'sa team, a group of people working together. I don't think that's everchanged. What has changed and changed for the really great for me to besolution providers is that now we can see it. So now you have because so muchof the buying process happens digitally and when it happens digitally it leavesa record. So now we have this kind of vapor trail of all of the activity b tobe buying teams, whether it's anonymous activity or they filled out forms orsomething like that. Um and you can see it also now you can understand whatthat actually looks like. What does it look like when one of our customers isgoing out in the market to look around for stuff and what does it look like inthe middle? What does it look like at the end? How much content are theyconsuming? Where are they going? That stuff was all invisible just a coupleof years ago, you preempted my next question and I think they're, I thinkyou'll probably reiterate some of what you just said. But I'm curious ifthere's more mentioning that now you can just see that there are more peopleinvolved in the buying process because of the information and the technologybut but was their research that you saw or were part of that proved that thebuyers no longer just one person. Was there ever like a watershed moment foryou in your career? Sure, Absolutely. So back in my days at serious decisionsin Forrester which were only two months ago, we did a lot of research aroundthe nature of the fire and what the buying process was like. And so we'vehad research for years that have said that the majority of B2B purchases aremade by teams or groups of people, not individuals. And the most recentversions of those research of that research would suggest that thatnumbers, It's more than three people 85 90% of the time. If you ask the buyer,If you ask the seller, they'll say that there are probably more than five or 10people involved 90-plus% of the time. Um and they, you know, you getdifferent answers from the too, so buyers will say who is on my team andthey say a slightly smaller number when you ask the seller, who did I have toinvolve and who was involved in that purchase, they say a little biggernumber because they're thinking everybody probably, But whatever numberyou look at, it's a pretty big number for purchases for an organization thatare more than about 250,000 annually, that number's certainly in doublefigures and it may be closer to 20 people involved. So you have your a B.M. Strategy in motion now assuming, you know, you know, as just the like thehypothetical marketer here and this just discussion, you know that youryour lead scoring, you've, you've kind...

...of worked it so that you have what youneed in place for a really strong A B. M. Motion. Um One thing you said to methe last time we talked was that a lot of people have a B emotions that areset in place and they work really, really well. They start they attractand go after target accounts. They bring multiple stakeholders to thewebsite to start consuming content. Um But that the reason their A. B. M.Motion might break down later is because it worked initially. Can youunpack with that what you meant by that? So there are a couple of differentthings in there. So part of the reason that a B. M. Program would work andreally what it's designed to do is attract and engage multiple members ofthat buying team. But also to if you've got the reason that somebody a companywould be in the Arabian program is likely that you can sell them more thanone thing and you want to cultivate that whole account and have multiplecross sell up sell opportunities and that kind of thing. So a lot oforganizations went out and did a good job of selecting the accounts withsales and marketing together and then going to attract and engage multiplebuyer personas. But then they built those programs right on top of thatmarketing automation and sales force automation process that was therebefore. And so even while they're attracting and engaging multiple buyerpersonas, they don't really have the ability to see and report and act onthat. So that was still stuck there. So when you when you launch that programyou still may get a lip like you're focusing more marketing and salesattention on a smaller more highly vetted set of accounts and that's goingto produce a better result than whatever you were doing before. Sothat's great. But the problem is you're not going to optimize what you could bedoing unless you can see all of the results that are coming from thoseaccounts. So if you're if you're not taking advantage of all of the buyingsignals, if you're not using all of the traffic on your website and the thirdparty intent plus the leads to focus your attention and make sure you'reworking those highest propensity opportunities. You're still not goingto be really focused on that. We saw some research recently back andforth or which showed that for the first year two of an A. B. M. Program,marketing sales both agree that it's working and you see them theirsatisfaction with the program going up. But after a couple of years, what yousee is sales belief that it's working start to go down while marketing'scontinues to go up. And so you see this divergence in sales and marketing aftera little while and well, I don't know, we haven't been able to do the researchto understand precisely why that's happening. You can imagine that after alittle bit of time sales is still out there trying to figure out how topenetrate accounts and all that marketing is now producing more andmore leads from the account, but without having the right machinery inplace, the right infrastructure in place to to see all of the signals andto put them together in the right way and package those insights for sales.Still not helping nearly as much as it could be. Hey everybody Logan withSweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDP growth, you know thatI'm one of the co hosts of the show, but you may not know that I also headup the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in sales or salesops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made us insanely moreefficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the past fewmonths. And what used to take us four hours gathering contact data now takesus only one where 75% more efficient were able to move faster with outboundprospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before.I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check themout at lead I Q dot com. That's L E A D I Q dot com. All right, let's get backto the show. Okay, so my question then,...

...of course is how do you then proposethat the marketing and sales work together so that instead of thatsatisfaction going down, it continues to rise and they're they're able to usetheir technology and uh strategy to have a consistent A B. M. Motion. Firstof all you've got to have a really solid system in place for identifyingthat set of accounts that you really should be focused on. You know I. C. P.Or ideal customer profile has to be agreed on. That doesn't mean that youhave to have a predictive analytics and Ai to figure out what that is. If youknow that you sell to 50 companies across the world you don't need a I totell you that. But what you do need is a really comprehensive way of seeingall of the signals from those buyers that help you understand where toprioritize your time. And that means one you need to be monitoring theinternet generally for digital signals about where those prospects you careabout our in market. So that means third party intent in the way mostpeople use that term. You've got to see that buyer behavior that's outside ofyour digital walls. If you're a small brand you need that so that you don'tmiss deals. If you're if you're a small brand in your space, it's very likelythat there are sales that are going on that you never even find out aboutuntil it's over, right? And you've lost. And then if you're a big brand and youknow that everybody is coming to your website who might be interested. Nowyou have to distinguish the ones who were there just out of curiosity fromthe ones who are really in a buying process, and the way to do that is togo look and see if they're looking at somebody else. Right? So, if you're abig brand in the space, you want to see that this is a buyer that's looking atyour competitors and they're engaging with third party content on this topicthat can help you validate, yep, that activity I see on my website now is areal buying process. So two different use cases, kind of depending upon whatyour, what your market situation is. And then the biggest thing is you haveto be able to bring all of those signals together in one place. So, ifthere's third party intent out there, There's anonymous website traffic, Ihaven't really talked about that yet, but 95% of the traffic on your BDBwebsite is anonymous at least. Uh, and so you've got to understand what's inthere and then you've got those people who have filled out forms for eventsfor looking at content and all of that, all of those things, all of thosesignals are flawed signals, if you take them one at a time, but if you put themall together, you can get a really robust picture of which prospects areactually in market what they're interested in and how to best engagewith them and then you've got to be able to use all that to present to thefolks internal, you're going to use it, one to focus your marketing attentionin dollars, let's put it where the most likely outcome is going to be good. Andthen to enable the Sdrs and the sales people going forward so that they cansee what that prospect is interested in, can see what they've consumed,understand which of the buyer personas are involved in those kinds of things.So that's really what it is. Is being able to bring all of those signalstogether in one place and make it consumable and usable for the revenueteams as they, as they try to generate that revenue. So one thing you saidthat I am fascinated by so mentioning the your prospect, first of allanonymous website traffic, you need to be able to crack in and and get farmore insight from that. Um, so I want to unpack that a little bit more. Butbefore I, before I do that you, you mentioned that you want to know thatyour prospect is, is potentially looking at competitors and that's areally strong buying signal for you. I'm sure this is a question that mostmarketing practices know the answer to. But how do you do that? There are anumber of providers of 3rd party intensive. So intense signals arereally just the record of which...

...companies are visiting, which websites,which publications, which social media influencers and all of those. Soorganizations can tell from pixels on their website and other things whichcompanies are coming to visit them. There's a lot of technology involved intrying to figure out where that anonymous traffic is coming from. Andthat's something that some organizations do particularly well. Wethink our organization does that really, really well and others don't. But youknow, when you think about the fact that 95 or so percent of the traffic onyour own website, if you're a B two B solution provider, almost all of thetraffic on your website is anonymous. And if you're like most babies solutionproviders, you're not a household name for the general public. Uh, nobodyknows that you exist except organizations and people in thoseorganizations who have some professional interest in what you do.Now, that doesn't mean that every one of those people come to your website isa potential buyer, but it doesn't mean probably a substantial portion of themare and it doesn't take many of those anonymous visitors to outweigh the onesthat you know about. Since you only know a couple of percent of those virus.So we think it's just extremely important to do everything possible,understand what's in that anonymous traffic. If I'm talking to a VP ofdemand or CMO or somebody in that position, what I would say is you havealready paid for that anonymous traffic. You know, your, it's very difficult toget people to come to your website and to look at your content. You spend aton of money on it. You've already gotten these folks who are theiranonymous there? They're already showing interest. You can't, and it'snot legal to track them by individual as an individual person and try tofigure out who they are, but you can certainly know what companies arecoming from. And when you think about it, if I've got just one lead from anaccount that's not particularly interesting, that's what I'm saying.But if you, if you know, in addition to that one lead that there's a bunch ofanonymous traffic this month from that same account and we don't usually gettraffic from that account, but now that account is on our website and honestly,and we have a lead now, that's very interesting. And that's what'simportant about seeing these signals together. None of the signals bythemselves are particularly good leads. Not particularly good anonymous trafficby itself. Not particularly interesting. Even 3rd party intent by itself. Notparticularly interesting, but when you put them together, you can makesomething very powerful to identify where you should be spending your time. That really brought together a lot ofthings that I've heard, as I've talked to many marketing practices whilesitting in this seat that I'm in. And this is really like just solidifying,you know, pillar that runs through so much marketing. That's really startedto make sense. Really thrilled about that. My, my curiosity is clearly a BMis incredibly important going to be this thick vein through anyone'smarketing strategy. Are there scenarios where an account based marketingapproach isn't valuable? Yes. So if you sell to Companies of 1, 2, 3, 4 people,something like that, Okay. If you've got a lead from one of thoseorganizations that plenty, you're going to look for three or four or five leadsin a bunch of anonymous traffic, that's fine. So if you're selling to verysmall organizations than maybe I'm gonna lead based approach, we'll getyou the same thing essentially. That's really it for circumstances in whichthe account-based approach isn't the right one wherever your buyerrepresents is multiple people. That's...

...really you should be taking what wethink of as this account based approach. So what results can people expect? AndI guess my my general question is what results have you seen with this? Likestart to finish a B. M. Approach? If we can get to reduce it down to just thatterminology for a second, what results will be seen? Well, you know, theactual number is very of course a lot. But virtually every organization thatimplements an approach that takes account of the fact that their buyers,a team of people who allow, who enables themselves to see more of those signalssee substantial improvements and you don't actually have to do everything toget improvements. And I think that's one of the things that's maybe the oneof the most important messages that the audience could here is that there aresmall changes that you can make to, how your revenue teams operate today, thatwill produce a big change in the outcome that they produce. And youdon't have to do everything now. But some of the things that are reallyimportant to do, like seeing multiple signals together and seeing that buyingteam signal are a big change to a company's process. So for instance,what we'd really like to see is if SDR teams are trying to penetrate targetaccounts, they absolutely should be going after multiple individuals. Ifyour outbound prospecting into an account, they will always be trying totarget multiple individuals. But often today, when we get a lead from one ofthose accounts, the SDR will just call that one person, send them some emailsand if they don't respond, they say they're done with it, it doesn't makeany sense. Right? So, uh, here, here you have a target account where youactually have a signal of interest already. So why would you not do yourbest to penetrate that account? Now that you've already got that signal? Sojust getting organizations to think differently even about that, if I getan inbound lead from an organization that's a target organization, I got totake an outbound prospecting approach to finding out what's going on there.And so even that approach will produce substantially better results than theones that they're getting with the current process today. So, you know, wesee results in terms of pipeline generation that, you know, we're nottalking about small incremental improvements. It's not a 234%improvement in many situations will see 25 30 40% improvement. We've seen thatin clients going back to the Forester days just by implementing a small setof the improvements, especially seeing additional signals and then operatingon them together. I love that if you, there's, you don'thave to do everything, but there are a couple of things that you should do andand that's that's probably most practically how it's going to startanyway. Right. These small process improvements, these small adaptationsinstead of turning over the whole apple cart. I'm curious too about just havingseen so much in the way of A B. M. If there's ways that you've seen peopleattempt or plan for a B. M. That's maybe incorrect. Or like a red flag,maybe I can guess a couple of them already. Right? Not not noticing all ofthe buyers signs or styling the intent signals, but but some may be thinkingsome a little bit more about this processes and the domino effect ofArabia. Sure. So first of all, if you're in marketing and you can't getyour sales colleagues to engage with you and agree on the set of accountsand the segments that you're interested in then don't bother. So you've got tostop and reset and figure out how to make that happen? Because that's theessence of it is making sure that wherever you're generating demand, it'sinside a set of accounts that sales can and will go sell two, there's reallynothing more important than that. And...

...if you can't do that, you can't movefurther along. It's not really going to help very much. The next I would say isensuring that you do see multiple signals and that what you're doing isyou're focusing the human beings in your organization str salespeople onthat set of opportunities that is really going to be their best potentialset of opportunities to win. Not the ones that just show up or they lookbest there. They have the best title of a lead that came in, but really where'sthe opportunity that we have the best chance of winning and making a goodcustomer? And then the next is use everything that you learn in the topend of the final to enable the SDRs and the sales reps lower down. So they needto know for sales are up for SDR, their investment in an account that they'regoing to go, try to penetrate. You know, it's, it's substantial. Takes a lot oftime. Takes a lot of energy. Uh, and so they need to understand when marketingpasses off an opportunity, Why is this a good one? You know, why? Why is this11 I should go pay attention to and not another one. Why should I spend so muchtime and energy and this potential opportunity as opposed to whatever elseI was going to do and marketing often thanks. Well we got our scoring down orsomething like that. So sales should love it. Now. You've really got to go find outfrom sales what's important to them to understand about an account and that'swhat you ideally will give them Now. If that doesn't make sense of what theysay, it doesn't make sense. Then again, you have to go back to the drawingboard figure out why aren't you on the same page about what a really goodprospect looks like. I'm curious about many things as I said, but I'm with this philosophy and this oversightof an Evan a BM strategy. Do you think that there's maybe a lack of knowledgeor true definition around a B. M. That that maybe causes less of this fullyfleshed strategy to be in place or is it is it that there is like oppositionfrom a different camp? Why do you think this maybe isn't a commonly heldpractice? Well, I think there are a few one is just history. So you know, wecame through this period of time where everything was lead based and people'sunderstanding our understanding of what's good and what works is evolvingand so it's not a static thing and you can't just flip a switch and say, okay,well we were doing that yesterday, but this is the right way today. Thisdoesn't work that way. Doesn't have a whole generation really of marketerswho were kind of brought into business and learn how to do things in this leadcentric world. And it's not an easy thing to say. But now we're going tothink about the world differently, right? You know, some people will getthat, but other people have to come along a little more slowly. Plus ifyou're a big organization and your whole operation is set up one way, justsay, okay, but well now we're going to do it differently. I mean, you know,people's livelihoods, their paychecks are at stake, there's a lot involved.So that can be a big transformation. It's part of the reason we say, youknow, let's start with a piece of it. Let's make sure that we enable yourSdrs to be super effective. Give them all the signals and the insights thatthey need to be effective. We can go from there right now, if you're asmaller organization rip and replace, change everything all at once, that'sfine. The bigger ones, you have to start a little more slowly. So I thinkthat's really where we are, is that we're in a period of time when we'reevolving that what is the best practice is changing as technology allows us todo more things and we can't really underplay that because the technologysay five years ago, didn't allow you to do the thing. A lot of the things thatI've been talking about today, it does today. Big part of the reason I came tosix senses because they've got the tech that lets you do it. And so that's abig part of it as well. I really...

...appreciate how measured your approachesto A B. M. And I appreciate that marketing allows for these incrementalchanges and that there's there's so many ways to approach marketing and A B.M. As it becomes increasingly popular at there's research and data to back upthat it really is one of the most effective approaches. I'm I'm I reallyappreciate that your temperament on this is start small and grow and expandand see those results that are that are so compelling for and that come from areally strong maybe in motion. Yeah, I want to clarify one thing that you cantake an incremental approach to what you change, but when you change theright incremental things, you can see next level performance and what we'retalking about is not Is not incremental improvement because that's that'sreally, you know, what organizations have had over the last 10 years or so.It's just an incremental improvement where 1% better this year than lastyear, 2% better this year than last year, that's fine. But one or 2% betterthan what you were five years ago if you're doing lead management, B two Bis not good. It's just really not good at all. And so the changes that we'vebeen talking about, seeing these buying signals, seeing the buying team movingthose things forward, you can make incremental changes saying how yoursdrs see and work with those, but that will produce beyond incrementalimprovements in your performance. That is an excellent clarification. I'm soglad you said that. I'm super excited for anybody who then try, goes andimplement some of what you're suggesting. If there was one thing thatyou wanted marketing practitioners to take away from this episode and justreally kind of drive home, what would it be? Mm that was really hard. I guess.What I would say is that there are lots and lots of different signals availableto help you understand which potential buyers and opportunities you should befocused on and you cannot rely on just leads anymore. And but moreover, youcan't rely on just any one of those signals. You have to be able to seethem together and act on them together because any one of them is going tolead you astray? Well, there you have it carry. Thank you so much for joiningme on B two B growth. How can listeners connect with you and learn more? Aboutsix cents? Sure. Well, we're at the six ounce dot com. Pretty easy to findtheir um, you can find me personally on linkedin, uh, and I'm relatively activeon linkedin, so very happy to have anybody uh connect there and comment onwhat I've said. Tell me they think I'm full of it or have some idea to kickaround. We're always happy for that. Oh, man, that's great. Thank you so muchagain for joining me on B two B growth. Yeah, Thank you Olivia and great, thankyou. All right, and sweet fish. We're on a mission tocreate the most helpful content on the internet for every job function andindustry on the planet for the B two B marketing industry. This show is howwe're executing on that mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would bean awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call mebecause I don't answer unknown numbers, but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8.Just shoot me their name may be a link to their linkedin profile and I'd loveto check them out to see if we can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.

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