The Next Wave Of Content Marketing for B2B w/Joe Pulizzi

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Joe Pulizzi is the founder of The Tilt, the Content Marketing Institute, and is the author of Content Inc. 

Joe discusses the current state of owned media and content marketing within B2B and dive into his next venture with the Tilt where he is experimenting with branded crypto currency as a means of creating engagement with his audience.

Contact Info:https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepulizzi/pam@thetilt.com

Mhm Welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm danSanchez with sweet fish media and today I'm talking to joe policy, who is thefounder of the tilt the content marketing institute and is the authorof content inc joe. Welcome to the show dan. Thanks for having me. I appreciateit. Today we're gonna be talking about the current state of owned earned andpaid media with B two B marketing and I wanted to kick it off with one question,especially since joe you've kind of been like the king of owned media forfor a while now. But I feel like as long as I've been in marketing, likeover 10 years now, I've been hearing people like champion the phrase like weneed to become like media companies, marketing needs to become like media.And it's been, they've been saying this for a long time. I remember firsthearing that was a social media manager and I was like, yeah, this is, this iswhat we need to do, this is the future. 10 years from now, everybody is goingto be doing this. But today, I can't say I see a lot of that happening rightnow. I see people, they post a social a little bit. They got a company blog. Ican't say that we've reached the media company Mark, what do you thinkstopping most businesses from getting there? Well, it's a good point. I think firstof all you have to realize that in most large enterprises they're prettysubstantial. Media companies already built. It's just nobody talks about him.It's funny because it's just on our podcast with robert rose, this oldmarketing. And we were talking about Walgreens, Walgreens. Well, has a brandnew content studio. Well, they've really had it for a while. Somebodyjust caught wind of it. Media company covered it. It's almost like back inthe day where if you had a custom magazine, nobody really knew about itbecause it wasn't on the newsstand, it was delivered to customers. So younever knew this stuff was going on. So I guess just to address the fact that alot of this stuff is going on. But Yeah, is it going on as seriously as I wouldlike to see it? Or to your 0.10 years ago, I've been in this industry now for21, almost 22 years, I've been in the content marketing industry and we'vebeen saying the same things in the same opportunity. It's still very tough whenyou're going one direction and you're focused on marketing a product orservice to turn a little bit, it's a brand new muscle that mostorganizations aren't used to using. So it's this is going to happen overdecades. So I would, I guess I would say companies don't have to do thisright. You know, that you've been around for a long time. Uh not everyonehas a content marketing strategy. Most companies are using dabbling in contentmarketing. They've got their blog, they've got their, you know, theirpodcast going on and they're hoping it's additive to their to their productsales or keeping customers longer, or whatever, the big opportunity, andthat's maybe we'll maybe we'll finally see in the next couple of years is thefact that If you really dedicate yourself to building an audience doestake time, maybe that's maybe that's the issue. It takes 9-12 to 18 months,it's outside the campaign cycle, you've got to invest in it, and you've got toexpect no return for the first year. So, you know, talk to a CMO about that andthey were probably like, oh, I gotta make those quarterly numbers. Maybe youdon't want to do that, maybe we don't want to expand on that. But now, Ithink you're, you're getting into Web three, you're getting into a lot ofexperimentation. You're seeing things like Facebook being, you know, shutdown for a day. You've got businesses that are tied to Facebook, they'recompletely helpless. You're thinking, uh maybe we should control our owndestiny a little bit more. Uh maybe we've given too much power to thelinkedin's the twitters and the Facebooks of the world, and they nowhave these massive audience because of what we've done. Um I don't know, kindof rambling on the whole thing, I guess. I would, I'd like to say that reallyinnovative companies over the next 12 to 24 months are going to take us allby surprise, and we're going to say,...

...wow, we had no idea, we had no ideathat intel or we had no idea that Cisco systems, we had no idea that some ofthese other large B two B companies had such grand plans for building audiencesin whatever way they're doing it, whether that's on twitch or whetherit's on Youtube or whether it's a podcast or whatever. So I think that wejust did, I think more than anything, we need to wake up and say that this isa lot of cases is happening. And then the ones that are listening to thiswhere you're just dabbling, well, I would just say either do it or don't doit. You don't have to do it, you could interrupt people forever. You can justdo paid media earned media great. Just keep doing that. But the, I don't thinkthey understand the big opportunities of own media. It sounds like whatyou're saying a bit is like companies are taking advantage on, it are doingthe media stuff. They're hiring media teams, they're building studios,they're hiring writers, Maybe even some journalists, right? But they're notnecessarily building audience unless you're counting their customer base asan audience. Um do you see that being kind of like the defining thing betweenthem and what a media company would do because if your immediate company andyou don't have an audience, Well, you're probably not going to be inbusiness that long. I think it's, well, you, you have customer audience efforts.I mean their loyalty programs, we've been doing them forever. I think what'smissing on the marketing side is that marketers, content marketers don'tunderstand that there are 10 different ways that you can drive revenue from anaudience. And generally if you're a B two B company, you're looking at one, Iwant more product sales, I want lead gen, you know, so I'm gonna build anaudience that we're gonna try to extract value from that audience oneway. Well if your immediate, so let's take the media example. I mean, I'vebeen immediate professional for 21 years. I build an audience initially.Right now. There could be more in the next year. Right now. There are 10different ways that I can drive revenue. I can, I can drive revenue six directrace. I can drive revenue through advertising sponsorship. I can driverevenue through events, sponsorships, event conferences. I could do itthrough premium content, like books or e books. I could do it throughdonations. I could do it through uh, subscriptions and I could do it throughaffiliate marketing. So great. Those are my six. And by the way, marketersdon't think about any of that except for companies like salesforce that havedream force or big conferences or whatever. And then you've got thelevers on the outside. So you've got, I want, then you've got, I want to driveproduct sales. I want to have services sales. I want more loyal customers or Iwant to create better customers or increased yield, that's your 10. So howmany content creators think about those opportunities in that way? Not many.And that's why I think the the CMO of the future in A B two B organizationhas half marketing expertise, have publishing expertise, becausepublishers innately already think about these things. We already know. We needto diversify our revenue streams immediately. Marketers think I have tohit X sales goals this quarter. So what do I have to do in a very short periodof time to interrupt people or get them to do what kind of behavior change? Iwant them to to do that thing in a short period of time, terrible,terrible. What do you think about the art of publishing? Because it's becausewe're trying to build a loyal relationship with an audience thatknows likes and trusts us. If we do that well, we'll see some kind ofbehavior change or maintenance of behavior. So I think that's where asmarketers, we need to expand our thinking and say, okay, well, let's saythat daniel premises is correct and we all should be media companies, which Ido. We already are media companies, then we have to become serious aboutthe revenue pass for media companies and just extend of just this is the KPIwhich might be an initial hypothesis. But what's next? It's interesting, Ifind that it's usually the revenue that gets people in trouble when especiallyin B two B. Right? Because they're trying to extract value so quickly thatit's practically an advertorial or it's...

...about their product or or it's justabout their expertise and the people they attract to their blog, theirpodcast is their competitors, let alone the person who is not already readingthat kind of stuff that needs their help the most. Right? But what you'resaying, or at least what I hear you saying, there's like the it's like notjust how a BBB company would think about adding more revenue streamsbecause they could think about like a tech company could add more softwareproducts or maybe unbundle their current software product to be multiplepieces. But you're talking about adding revenue streams. Like a publisher wouldadd revenue streams. I almost think about is not adding revenue streamsabout diversifying the audience more places where you can add value, moreplaces where you can build relationships and trust is that kind ofwhat you're saying? Or is the revenue piece really important. I think thatonce you, so take your customer out of it for a second and say, we're tryingto build a community if we're trying to build a community and you've done thatreally well. The opportunities for all sorts of different types of revenueopportunities and all sorts of learning opportunities and research anddevelopment, everything changes. So I almost would prefer if you're a B2Bcompany going into this, you almost take take your have your hypothesis ofrevenue, but but take it off the table for a second because the longer that wecan go without pushing some kind of a revenue product or sales or service orwhatever, the more focus we are we're we have on the audience, the more focuswe have in our other needs are pain points, their desires and their better.We will serve them. And that's that's the winners. And then then down theroad you can get to be Red Bull Media House, right? That's that's like we'llbe Red Bull or Air Electronics who is the largest Media Company in the B twoB Electronic Space. It's not immediate company, it's error electronics, brands,three million opt in subscribers. They each one of those brands are profitablein and of themselves. So think about that if you're a marketing personlistening to this, each one of that group of 53 publications that generate,I don't know how many millions of dollars they are profitable in and ofthemselves. Not an expense. Like we would think our marketing department isdon't expect. No, they're not. And they kick off more product and service sales.So they do the content marketing thing to get the goals. But also there isthis amazing, this is a it could be, we could spin it off as its own business.I'm friends with some of the people over Cleveland clinic. They finally gotto, they are cost neutral for the publication for the, for the hospital.So, wow, you never thought that that was a possibility. But you know, herewe are. It's it's funny like I'm trying to, to your question, you know, whatadvice would we want to give a B two B marketer? I'd almost say, please, firstfor a second, take off your marketing hat. And look at the bigger possibility.Don't just look at nine months. Look at five years. Look, I mean, we were luckybecause, you know, we had, I was we were patient and content marketinginstitute in 2007. We were, we were lucky to say, I know content marketingis going to be a thing, but it's not going to be a thing in nine months. Sowe had a road map it out and we said, if we build an audience, we know thatother thing. We know there could be a big event. We know there could betraining, we know that, you know, we could we could sign up the largestenterprises in the world, but not now. No. So we almost have to wait. And wewere in an advantage because of that. You wouldn't think so because we reallywanted to eat and I really wanted to pay the bills. But I knew that that wasthe right direction. So I think that give your team some leeway, focus onfocus on an audience goal instead of a revenue goal. So say, we call this aminimum viable audience, let's say you...

...have an email newsletter that you'relaunching. Give your email newsletter team. Just say, I don't want to talkabout any revenue generation or KPI s on the sales side until youhit 10,000 opt in subscribers, like real subscribers that are reallyopening the email newsletter or if it's a podcast downloads whatever yourmetric is. And then when you get to that point, you can, you can look atand say, okay, well maybe now we can start to put on the monetization. Uh,it just works a heck of a lot better. And if you look at some of the greatestcontent marketing examples on the planet, they've all done that. They'veall said, look, we're just heads down, we're gonna build this audience. Andthen once we do, we'll see where we're at and we'll see what makes the mostsense from a revenue standpoint. It's interesting in some ways, Depending onthe types of content you're putting out, you might not ever have to throw aright hook. Like Gary V would say, you could probably just keep throwing outvalue and just build demand for whatever it is your expertise is in.And then people just reach out to you provided they know what company you'reworth and kind of what you do, like you don't tell you, I'll tell you what theywant to show up and be like, hey we know you do this stuff, help us. What'syour business are you be to be consulting business, throw out everypiece of I. P. And advice you possibly can. And if you do that in a really smartconsistent way, people will follow you and then some very small percentagemight say I'll do it myself, but you don't want that business, you want the99% the dote. We have to do it themselves and they want to hire youbecause they already know you've already sold them right? We talk and B.Two B. Marketing, we always talk about, we have a buyer's journey. Well thatjourney could be an hour or it could be three years. It depends on wherethey're at and what the what the biggest pain is. But if you put if youdeliver consistently over a long period of time, let them they'll find theirown journey. That's why um you know, we've been on a lot of consultingengagements, whether they wanted to map out the buyer's journey, which I don'thave a problem with, but I had one company would map that out 50 57different spots on the buyer's journey and they're like, we need a piece ofcontent for every one of those. I'm like well good luck with that becauseand then tomorrow it's gonna be, you're gonna have a whole new journey. I mean,it changes, it changes all the time. So just figure out the big ones, like, so,so figure out, okay, well, I'm gonna create this amazing awarenessexperience or this, and then this one amazing right before you buy experience,and then I'm gonna create this one amazing loyalty experience. If you dothose three things pretty well, you know, you've you've got it covered andyou can check the box and say we do a really good job at content marketing.Then you'd say, okay, What's that big that media thing that we're talkingabout? That's the thing where you set the mission, and you say I was talkingabout it with, with Robert and Walgreens today? Well, their goal isbasically to make their advertising better and have 87 people in theirgroup at Walgreens that are doing that. They're building all this contentaround ads. That's fine. I have no problem with that content. Marketingcan make advertising better. It can make pr better, can make everythingbetter. But it's small. To me, I I want to see them say we want to be theleading healthcare education provider in the world for this group of people,right? Why can't Walgreens be web MD? Right? That's right, better. Yeah.Right. Why is so small? What? Because we're not media companies generally,because there's no reason not to. I mean, literally Walgreens takes 5% oftheir worldwide ad budget and they move it over into content. They're spendingmore than almost every media company on the planet. You don't really realizethat there's totally different metrics.

You're like, wow, we yeah, could, coulduh I mean if you had these companies like amazon or put me a bad example,let's say the second tier of companies, you know, like an AMG or you know, like,like a Cisco systems, if they said they wanted to be the leading informationalexpert in whatever it is They have, they have so much, they have 10 timesthe amount of money than any media company would ever have because it'sdifferent metrics. So, uh, so it's, they don't even know the possibilities.That's why, you know, we can't even get into it. That's why I think in a lot ofcases it might just be easier for them to buy it, Just go out and buy themedia properties. People just like, well, hot spots like, well just by thehustle, right? Which is great for companies that have a big enough, Youknow, more enough cash flow to be able to afford that kind of stuff. It'scheap though. I mean 20, I I heard, I don't know what you heard, I heard $27million 5% of hubspot sales and marketing budget Come on for 1.5million opt in email subscribers and a great brand. Are you kidding me? Andthey're profitable. This is stuff that I don't know why more M&A is notAnthony. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it's just such a great, that was asteal. If I would've known it would be for sale for 27 million, I would putsome people together and buy it. It makes me think maybe we should just bebuying like even smaller businesses that aren't as big as hubspot need tobe buying independent creators channels because especially if they're runningads and have enough youtube income coming off of it to kind of pay foritself. Of course, it's usually more dependent on the creator, but you know,you could equal higher creators or do something like that and it's happening.Yeah, it's absolutely happening. It worked. What didn't work. We came outthis week, uh sort of an incubator for creators in being in the B two B space.That's, this is starting to happen. Any of these large. Yeah, it doesn't evenbe a large companies. Some of these deals are low five figures. I want tobuy that person's podcast. I want to buy that person's email newsletter. Iwould have a list if I'm any B two B. CMO executive director. I've got a listin front of me right now where my customers hanging out. What podcast,What youtube channels. What email newsletters? What twitch it, whateverit is. Right, put them all down there. I'd start building relationships withthose people and I'd say okay do we want to partner with that person?Wouldn't want to do? We want to buy them and boy what an opportunity andyou just don't realize that it just doesn't cost that much. But then againmost marketers don't understand the media and acquisition world and that'swhy it's helpful to come from publishing where half of what you do asan executive and B to be publishing is around them and a hey everybody Loganwith sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of B two B growth, youknow that I'm one of the co hosts of the show but you may not know that. Ialso head up the sales team here at sweet fish. So for those of you insales or sales ops I wanted to take a second to share something that's madeus insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For thepast few months and what used to take us four hours gathering contact datanow takes us only one where 75 percent more efficient. We're able to movefaster with outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so mucheasier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well.You can check them out at lead I. Q. Dot com. That's L. E A D I. Q dot com.Alright let's get back to the show amazing deal to be able to buy amarketing channel that pays for itself, it's immediately and if I know right,what are we doing wrong dad, Why are people doing this? I don't know. It'sprobably just takes a few people to get it going and then, you know, people,people look for safety and other people doing it and watch what theircompetitors are doing. So I'm sure now that more and more people are doing, itwill snowball and then create an...

...audience and influence it will probablybe the next big, big thing where I've heard some people say that like thecreative marketer, essentially the one who can grow the audience is going tobe the next uh web developer, right? So we'll see now my theory. I'm one of thereasons why companies don't do this is that they don't really think about itis trying to hit like a media market fit now. I just made that up a whileago. But essentially like when creators are trying to build audiences, theykeep testing stuff and it usually takes them a while to figure out whatresonates what works what and then they do a hit piece and they're like, oh,I'll do a little bit more of that and they do, they experiment a little bitmore and they find some hits and eventually they have a good thing going,they found out what their niche was, but it takes a long time to find it now.Companies just usually don't have the patience or have the even the thinkingto approach it with that kind of approach. Think about like what problemare we solving? What are we even talking to? They usually just have ahypothesis and go at it. Some of them get lucky with the hypothesis, but mostof them don't continually experiment like an entrepreneur would trying tofind a product market fit, but that's how creators approach it. At least thesuccessful ones that I've seen out there linkedin twitter wherever they'recreating content. And I'd say that's probably a big thinking peace beyondjust not investing enough into it. That slows most people down. Here's thething with B. Two B marketers and that everything that you're talking about, Ithink that we undervalue consistency and weundervalue focus in this whole thing that you and I are discussing becauseeveryone thing you think, oh content marketing, content creation, I gotta beon all the channels. You got to be doing all the things. But then to yourpoint, if you look at the ones that are really successful, They're focusing forthe most part on one channel, they've got their podcast, their emailnewsletter, their Youtube, they're testing out topics on that channel, butthey're doing it consistently over a long period of time. And if you'regoing to go do this in A B. Two B. Enterprise and I've been in a lot ofthem, you have to not only focus on, here's my thing that I'm doing on thisone or two channels. I'm staying really focused. I have to make sure that atthe same time I'm doing internal marketing, Especially in B two B. Youhave to make the case every week for why you're doing this. So you can keepdoing it because you get a new cmon, you get a new director in, you get anew ceo in everything changes all the time. So you have to sell. And I wouldsend it not only to your immediate bosses or the people that work aroundyou. I would send it to everyone who touches the financials and has has apart in your budget and send them a package that could be a regular podcastthat you do internally. It could be a regular email newsletter. It could be areport that you would actually send them in the mail or in her office orwhatever you use today. But put that together and make that case becausemost content, marketing programs get cut, not because they're not performing.It's because somebody in the organization does not understand. Andit would make sense because we're talking about publishing. We're nottalking about marketing and it's no, you know, we just happened to wake upthe in the last 10 years and realize that it's it's the same thing in a lotof cases, but marketers that have been taught this from school or whereverthey learned it, they never, they never said, okay, well, first I have to focuson building my base and okay, what channel is that going to be on? Andthen I've got to have what we call a content till you mentioned it. What'syour differentiation area? What's your hook, what makes you special? You gottawork those things out? Well, you know, I can't focus on three audiences at thesame time. I have to focus on one. Well, even though we have 6-9 buyer personas,I can't send them all the same thing...

...because it's not relevant enough. So Ireally have to do what audience at the time. So these are like, Okay, yeah,it's sort of like marketing, but no, not really. Okay, well then maybe Ishouldn't be on the 17 different channels and creating content all those.Maybe I should just focus on one. Like every great media company has since thedawn of time. We think that just because we have all the channels, weneed to do all the things and that's the worst thing. That would be a bigcompany can do. The best thing you can do is just focus on doing one or twothings not. You could be in social media, that's fine. I'm like, wheredoes the story happen? What it needs to be one place and do that and then onceyou build that audience, you want to have an own audience opt in subscribers.That means emails probably king. So you're going back to email even ifyou're gonna build on rented land, you want to have some strategy to ownproperty. And then when you do all those things then you can think aboutrevenue and diversification. It's good. I usually think about it in twoplatform strategy where I usually have a short form and long form it could betwitter and youtube or linkedin and podcasting usually. Yeah, I think thatwould work well. I think that's great. I mean we I see a 12 combination in alot of cases if they've got an email newsletter then maybe they'releveraging twitter linked in or it could be podcast email newsletter thatwork in combo. I've seen that work really well in the B two B side wheresomebody has a podcast but you know we don't love podcast necessarily becauseI don't control the distribution there that Apple and Spotify control though.So what do I do? Well I want to make sure I've got really good offers for anincredibly valuable email newsletter so they can subscribe to that that I getthat opted information that first party data that I can't get anywhere elseanymore because all these privacy things. So that's probably we didn'teven mention it but that's probably one of the one of the biggest movers orwill be of this move to media or move to content marketing is the fact thatyou've got these other platforms that won't give you the data anymore andthey can't because of all the privacy stuff and whatever. So who wins? Wellthose that those companies with first party data who has first party data,those companies that have built audiences hang out. I know it's evengetting harder even with email, you know, apple swapping out there orswapping out their fake email addresses and just forwarding it to you so youdon't even really know who they are. So usually contract some kind ofconsistency per user. So it's getting getting harder there too. Yeah. Andthat's where Well this is a whole, probably a whole another show we cantalk about some time but I think we're in peak web two mode right now. I thinkyou know, these big platforms google and facebook and youtube, they're goingto be profitable for a long, long time. But we're gonna start, we're seeing themove from centralization and decentralization. You, you have to beblind not to see it. So what does that mean? That that means that we shouldstart thinking about off platform activities if you're a B two B thecompany you can't just think about linked in and Youtube and I can usethose two as part of my sales strategy. Yeah, you can Absolutely. But I thinkwe should start thinking off platform as well and that means you have to havesome kind of owned property that you control. That makes a lot of sensewhere I saw a crypto ticker at the top of your website till coin. Uh Yeah Imean we I mean thinking plan that way we've been. Yeah we launched that inMarch. And my my belief is I mean we're a little early to the game but my mybelief is the internet of today and the future runs on a token. You can callwhatever you want. But so are you look at your customer, look at from a B twoB company standpoint. Not, I mean I look at it from a creative standpoint,but if you're looking at from a B to B. Marketers standpoint, you're all aboutthe customer experience. Well how can you create amazing differentiatedcustomer experience? You can do that with content. Absolutely. We justtalked about that. You can also do it...

...with a token. So all these rewardsprograms, these loyalty programs are all going to go token based where theythe token has a value in and of itself and then they get access to certainthings that you offer as a company through the tokens and that's what wedo with the tilt. So you get so many till you get access to a piece ofcontent. You get some more tilt, you get access to V. I. P. You can talk tothe team, you can talk to me, you know all kinds of different things and it'sworked really well and I could see B. Two B. Companies using this just likethey do everything else. So I mean every in 10 years every company willhave a token of some kind doing something. It doesn't mean thateveryone has a Cryptocurrency like we think we're all in a Bitcoin andethereum. No I'm talking about more utility tokens and we've got to we'vegot to get prepared for that right now. So anyone listening to this, you gotyou should be experimenting listening to podcasts, figuring out what you knowwhat our social tokens or community token some people call them or creatorcoins. You know what why is the token so important now? You should start yougo buy an N. F. T. Even if it's five bucks just go buy it. Go figure out theprocess, get yourself a digital wallet, we're gonna be we're gonna be therereally really quickly and B. Two B. And I don't think a lot of marketers areanticipating that. That's interesting. I mean I wasn't planning on talkingabout the whole decentralization platform but remember Gary V. Did a bigpush for a back in March. So I did the deal, I got the crypto wallet. I didn'tbuy into his N. F. T. Thing. But I bought some N. F. T. S. Got myexperience learned. Uh It was good and I certainly saw enough to be like okaythis is definitely the future. I just don't know when it's gonna happenthat's right now, the gas prices were just so high that you were just kind oflike man to move money around or to buy anything just really expensive. Soclearly it's not right now but this is going to be a thing. Um So I'm trackingwith you there. Um There is one question I want to I don't want to gooff on a tangent there, but I don't almost that's almost the whole anotherpodcast and that's gonna be, you know, we can talk about B. Two B. Andtokenization, that's the next. I haven't seen any B. Two B. Marketerstalk about it at all. I've only heard it on the B. Two C. Side. So that mightbe an interesting thing. Um But I did notice that with the tilt you haveessentially flipped the game, it seems like you were talking to businessesabout how to be content creators and now you're talking to content creatorsabout how to build businesses. Is that right? That's yeah that's pretty muchit. I mean I spent the 1st 20 years of my career uh teaching marketers how tobe publishers in essence and and working around this whole thing calledcontent marketing. And uh and I enjoyed it and I love it. The biggest challengefor me was the fact that if we went in and we would teach an enterprisemarketing team all about what they need to do or should do or change theprocess of whatever most of the times that nothing happened and that's that'sthat's how it is that it's all marketing works in big enterprisecompanies, it just moves really slow. So now I'm you know working with thecreator who can make decisions immediately because it's it's an owner,it's one owner you convinced that owner there's no red tape, there's nopolitics they can go through and so you're seeing a lot of innovationhappen on the token side, on the content side on everything. And that'swhat I did. My I spoke a content marketing world last month and that wasmy presentation. Like here's what content marketers can learn fromcontent entrepreneurs. And so yeah, we're all in this launched the tiltbusiness in in april we launched it as an email newsletter twice a week. Again,owned media. We're eating our own dog food here. We focus on twitter andlinkedin sort of as our primary social channels. But the token or tilt coin isat the center of everything. So basically how do we do it? I mean sopeople can use it If you would if you sign up for our email newsletter youget $5 until coin. If you refer someone else to it, you get five more dollars.So it's all referral program. All of our subscriptions are driven throughreferrals, most of them are. And so we've got people who started early withus in March. Uh you know they have...

...thousands of dollars worth of of tillcoin by the way, real money, You know where it's not a pump and dump scheme.But if you wanted to, you know if you had 20 until Dan and you could sellthat for a year, you know in the rally into the theory. I mean you've gotyourself some some real paper dollars if you if you want. But we really focuson the access. So it's really a content play it really because if you get fivetill coin you get an exclusive content drop every month if you're V. I. P.Program in the V. I. P. Program which is 20 you get access to our trainingprogram for free just as part of it because you're our V. I. P. S. So wecan do some really cool things and I guess I don't want to go too far intothe token thing but I've never seen a loyalty program like this and I've beenaround for a while. I had a full head of hair when we I started in thisbusiness. And it's crazy that people that's new, they're like oh my god thisis real stuff and they get into it and they mark it for you and it's just anew kind of experience. So if you're a B. Two B. Marketing and you're thinkingfor wow. Yeah I mean we want to create amazing positive experiences for ourcustomers and audience, there's something there and yeah, so anywaysour whole goal, teach content creators how to be content entrepreneurs andbuild sustainable uh you know financially secure lives and um it'sfun. I love seeing independent People, one or two people grow a team of 20multimillionaires, successful exit or not. And that's what we're trying toteach him a business model. That's really interesting. So let me see if I can interpret whatyou're doing with the tilt and the the tokenization here essentially you'rekind of gamifying consumption and it's different than other game, like likefor example a game that I just recently download is my nine year old daughterlike loves it. It's called Cross the Road, right? You tap the screen, thechicken goes over the road trying to get hit by a car, right? She loves it.Yeah, you earn points and those turn into coins and you can use the coins tobuy different in game things. New people, you can replace the chicken. Ithink I have a Scottish bagpiper like walking across the road now, I don'tknow why, but now is that one? The problem with that is you can't takethose coins anywhere outside across the road, but if you're using tokens youcan, which is why the tilt coin is more interesting because yes, you couldprobably use it to buy stuff with the tilt, there might be things that yousell products, events courses, more premium, buy this t shirt that I've goton right now if you want to you can cost you like five till coin orsomething. You can buy this. Do not build your house on rented land T shirtif you want to. Yeah, you're right your stuff but you can cash out and switchit into different cryptocurrencies, ethereum Bitcoin, whatever it needs tobe and Georgia strait to cash, so it's more flexible it becomes, it createskind of like there's a lot of conversation about the metaversebecause of facebook but ultimately it's creating a interchangeable system thatactually works well this is what you've hit upon is this is the big thing thatI'm trying to figure out. I've been writing a lot about it, I'm going downthe rabbit hole and this idea of digital property. So we're getting likeyou mentioned that game, it's the same thing, right? My my son plays Valerie,he's one of the top players in the world on Valerie. He's it's a firstperson shooter game. So he let's say he gets a sword and he's spent a lot ofmoney by that sword. Well today, right? Just like your cross the road thing,you can only use it in that game well and pretty soon you'll be able to takethat too, whatever other game you want to and you'll be able to take that andsell that on the open market for somebody else, something else. Andthat's what we're seeing with N. F. T. S. Right? That's and that's how it'sit's working. Um So that's the power of the token where if you think, okay wellI've got all I've got all these things...

...around me, Everything is a non fungibletoken around me, right? This have this drink. This drink here is my that's nonfungible that my computer is non fungible. It's all unique. Well you'regonna have digital property as well as the same thing. Uh That all right nowwe just look at them as jpeg but they all have usage, they all have utilityand I think that's what's really getting exciting for for me to beevents since getting back to be to be here. Um And that's where N. F. T. S.Are going to be strong in the next year. I would imagine that most by the end ofnext year, most big business to business trade shows will have some nonfungible token component where you can buy a never what I call a never endingticket and you can buy a ticket to this event. You'll have it on your digitalwallet at all times. And here's the difference between uh the ticket thatyou always bought in the past. It gets you into the event all the maybe V. I.P. Party all this stuff the difference is I own this ticket forever. And I cansell this to you dan if I don't want to go anywhere let's say change theindustry. Well this this ticket is worth $5000 because I bought a neverending ticket. I'm gonna now I'm going to pass it over to you, take thatexample and think of it with everything online that we want to do and I don'tneed you don't even have to put on your meta verse Oculus helmet to go downthat rabbit hole. All you have to know is that Yeah I'm going to have thingsthat I'm gonna want digitally that our subscriptions, all those things aregoing to have a token behind it. And we do a really bad marketing job ofcalling them an N. F. T. Or hft when we really just have to say yeah it'sproperty, it's digital property and every one of those everything that hasuh some kind of digital property component has a contract underneath it.A smart contract that says how it works and you know where the trust is and allthat stuff and here we are. And B. Two B. Is going to be transformed by it.And uh most of the time when I talk to marketers about it's like deer inheadlights but in the year won't be a year will be like oh man we're stillbehind the curve. Like remember like market marketing automation came outwas like oh my God all we got is email and now we got in the marketingautomation and you saw this rush, all these marketing automation platforms.Well this is going to be like that on steroids, so people are going, oh myGod, how are we going to connect with our customers? We can do it this way.The good news is we've got time because there's only what, 10 million meta maskwallets out there right now, growing exponentially, so don't worry if you'relistening to this, we're still very, very early. Just just start just startlearning about it. So my last question, I wanted to wrap up on the tilt theflip from business to creator from creator to business. Do you find thatit's easier to teach creators how to start businesses and businesses havebeen to become creators. Is it any more? It's not, I don't thinkit's any more difficult. It's just different, it's just it's justdifferent. I mean there's uh give an example, my friends daughter runs abrewery, they're really good, they understand the beer making processreally, really well, but they didn't understand all the things aboutmarketing and supply chain and all those things that go with it. It's soit's the same thing with the creator, right? So a content creator mightunderstand, oh well I I know how to create this podcast and distribute itwith lipson and to get people to listen to it, but I don't know how to do brandpartnerships, I don't know how to set up subscription programs. I don't knowhow to hire freelancers. I don't know how to do contracts for thosefreelancers. I don't know how to do Proforma scheduling. I don't know howto do. You know, I don't know how to launch a product or a service oranything like that and build the business. So yeah, you have that then.Uh, the business side of teaching them how to be creators. The it's the it'sthe we talked about it, it's the impatience, it's very hard to trainpatients in a big company that...

...especially a public company that hasquarterly numbers. They have to hit. It's almost impossible. You almost haveto run it like a stealth project. Get it off the books somewhere. Run it as apilot program and say, we're going to do this. Nobody pay attention, We justthrow a million dollars over here, please. Nobody to ignore these people.They're going to create this thing and we're going to test it out. It's gonnabe it's almost like what is it? The google? 20% where google employees cando Anything they want with 20% of the time. We need to think the same thingabout our marketing. So I think a lot of the things we talked about today, itwould be like, look, we know these things are really important but wedon't have a good handle on them. So let's take this 20%, some of that mightbe organic, some of that might be purchased. Well we're gonna, we'regonna be an incubator for all the little creators in our industry. Well,what a great idea that would be. And just say, hey, just keep, we're gonnafund, you keep doing your thing and building audience and then as you seeit come together and you listen to to the audience and figure out what theirneeds are and figure out where that database overlaps with your databaseshould be like, oh, now I'm starting to think I could see the business, I cansee the different revenue lines, what an opportunity that would be. Well, that's good to know. I alwayswondered, I'm like, I'm like, I'm more on the business side trying to learnhow to become a creator more and more. And I work for a content marketingagency as sweet fish media. We, we do podcasting. So I get content, but atthe same time it's the growing an audience is difficult. It's not easy.And starting a company, a profitable company isn't easy either. Almostwondered if it was easier to, or harder to grow an audience as it was to starta company. I've certainly seen creators with millions of YouTube subscribersstruggle to get more than $100,000 a year in profit, right? And you're like,Huh? Because I've seen some business savvy creators with 100,000, you know,uh, subscribers tens of thousands of views of video making millions ofdollars. Right? So there's definitely, I mean, they're both extremelydifficult. If I have my choice, I I would like to walk in with the audiencein hand, I can monetize that audience all that. I mean, I can do a lot ofdifferent things so big. So creating the business from that audience is itwould be easier for me to do it. Sometimes it's not for a business withthe wrong mission statement. But that's if I had my choice, that's what I wouldtake because if you have the audience, you're already a few steps ahead onWhat you would need for the business. You already know what your target demosare. You already have some, a lot of information to work with. And you coulddo a lot of product market research to find out what they want and you jump tothe front, you can test it, jump to the front of the line, right? You've jumped,you just skipped probably 18-24 months of time. That's the and that's thatmakes the business case for buying and outside properties. So you don't haveto take all that time. Although I would, I would say that there is a lot ofbenefits to going through the learning pains and the struggles ofunderstanding that audience, but you can't skip and and just buy your waythere. Yeah, the audience might outlive the business, right? That's another fun thing. Butman, I would almost, I think maybe we'll talk afterwards about doinganother episode about your your token journey there, but for now joe this hasbeen fantastic. Where can people go to learn more about what you're currentlydoing with the tilt and anything else you have going on? That's that's worthmentioning now. Sure, thank you. Yeah, so the tilt dot com, if you like whatwe talked about, that's what we talk about all the time. You know how to bea better content creator. I'm at joe palette. CPU L I Z Z I uh just aboutevery social channel you can dM me, my latest book is content inc came out inMay and it talks about the seven step process for building an audience withlimited resources. So if that's something that you're looking forwardto in your department, you can take...

...this seven step model and plug it inbasically to any B two B organization and as long as your patient, as long asyou've got the Taib, you can make it work absolutely fantastic. Again,thanks for joining me on GDP growth. Thanks dan, is your buyer at B two B marketer. Ifso you should think about sponsoring this podcast. BtB Growth getsdownloaded over 130,000 times each month. And our listeners are marketingdecision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Logan and email Loganat sweet fish media dot com. Mm hmm.

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