B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1711 · 2 months ago

The New Rules of Marketing and PR, with David Meerman Scott

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to David Meerman Scott, marketing and business growth speaker, as well as the author of NEW RULES OF MARKETING & PR and WSJ bestseller FANOCRACY.

Our theme today is what has changed and what has stayed the same. The first edition was published back in 2007 so we have 15 years now to look back on, including the evolution of social media and the rise of A.I.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth, coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and with me today I have rex and emily. Rex are is our VP of revenue at sweet fish, emily our creative content lead. And you guys are like, where's Dan? Well, he actually just had a baby, so shout out to Dan and his family. Congratulations there and we are so glad that he gets to spend some time away and with the new the new baby and with his wife. So all right, here's what's up for today. In about ten minutes we will share a featured conversation, a chat that I had with David Merriman Scott. He's the author of the new rules of marketing and PR fascinating conversation. Just came out with his eighth addition, and so we have a lot to dive into there. But like we do Monday's, Wednesdays and Fridays, we're here for about a ten minute conversation, something that the three of us are seeing around marketing, something that kind of got our interest levels up. And today, Emily, it's your turn, so I turn it over to you. What are you paying attention to in marketing right now? Yeah, so today I'm bringing a blog from Seth Goden and I'll just read a short part of it. He says marketing is the work of helping people get what they've wanted all along. It's about establishing the conditions for a small group of people to eagerly spread the word and build connection. And then this line, I think is pretty key and what I want to talk about. He says taking attention versus storytelling and service. Sometimes it feels like the short cuts and deep personalization and scale are the only option. Then a great marketing project comes along and we're reminded that in fact we can do work we're proud of. So the main topic here is the Hustle of marketing if you're just trying to take attention or if you're being thoughtful with storytelling. And this is a conversation we have a lot at sweet fish and it reminded me of thinking through brand awareness or brand affinity, thinking through a lot of people ask how often they should be posting and there's a difference of opinion there whether it should be put out as much content as you can or hold the reins a little bit and be thoughtful about it. So we're on this journey to learn how to tell better stories, how to train our host and telling better stories instead of just putting out more content and trying to take attention. And this is something I see on is working on social every day is there's a lot of times where I have these ideas and like Oh, I should, I should put this out there, and then I have to think, but is it beneficial it? Does it actually help people? So, yeah, what do you guys think about this idea of putting out a ton of content just for the sake of attention versus storytelling that line. Sometimes it feels like the short cuts and deep personalization and scale are the only option and then a great marketing project comes along and we're reminded that in fact, we can do work we're proud of. I'm like, Oh, like, let's read that like five times for people. But you need that shot in the arm right because I don't think we live there, because it's our job. So you're never going to just only operate from that space. You're always going to have that push and pull. So I appreciate his sentiment and it's almost like you want a leader that's going to nudge you back in that direction, and we want to be those people as well that like as much as we can. We don't just put it out for the sake of like attention and like a flash in the PAN type marketing campaign or social push. So to me, I'm with you on this. It's just so hard, when you're like in the Daytoday, not to go to the route of just gotta meet this quota, got to do this thing, and so I feel I feel this a lot. Yeah, listen, I think you know marketings and art and a science. There's the two facets to marketing in every bit of marketing that we do. I think the hard thing is that some people lean in one direction and neither direction is wrong. You have to have both. So, you know, let's say we lean more towards the the science, or like the we just need a certain amount of work, because we know that the math plays out there, like if we just do a certain amount of work, you can convert this number of people and we start to like really focus on the tinkering part of it. But the problem is if you've you lean way too far towards the art side. We do really like creative work we're proud of, but it doesn't necessarily move the needle because we haven't thought about how it impacts people from a psychology standpoint or from a conversion standpoint. So, like, I think it's it's hard to strike a balance, and it starts with at the very highest levels, how do we talk about marketing and building awareness with executive team? Like we have to agree what we think marketing looks like for our company before we can say, okay, well then, what channels and what types of programs were going to build out, and then how are we going to tactically execute? We end up talking a lot about the tactical execution, but like we're not really deciding at the very highest levels and getting an alignment that okay, you know, we want to do great creative work and we're going to also work on conversions. Like we end...

...up just we end up getting pushed around. I think that's ultimately what happens. We talked about a lot about having, you know, marketing, having a seat at the table, and if it doesn't, then marketing gets told what it's going to accomplish, and those are non marketers telling marketers want to accomplish. They have no idea what is even possible, because we're not pushing back. So let's say, if you have a set of table great, use that seat to set expectations correctly. If you don't have a seat of the table, push back. This is where, you know, Dave Gerhart says you shouldn't work for a Seeo who doesn't get marketing like it's some degree that's true, but to some degree it's not. Because you you have the right to say, actually, here's how it works, here's what's going to happen if we do that, if we just put out a bunch of commodity content, if we're just throwing stuff out there and hoping it sticks. Yeah, sometimes we're going to get a hit, but usually it's going to fall flat. And what does that do over time? It devalues our brand, it makes people less excited to hear from us. It just decreases our value in the market place over time. So start to the top doesn't mean we can always get there. So sometimes we have to push upward and kind of educate upward. It's interesting because I did an interview with Steve Harder, who's over at he's the CMO at jot form and he's talking about science, art and Voodoo of marketing, and I think what happens is you get like the scientific minded marketer who goes really into like if we just do this, then we'll get this type of you know, and it's all science to them, and you can hit Voodoo even if you just lean into science. And then on the art side you could create something so creative that you strike that magic moment right and then, because you've seen the magic work on either side, you start defending your side like all see, it's in the science, or Oh see, it's in the art, and it's like it's actually this interesting mix where I think it's multiple teammates that have a leaning, and then also your internal ability to go okay, where how do I make sure I continue to have output even when I don't have that level of inspiration? That's what makes US professionals, right, but also I'm actively seeking inspiration that leads to like a good content and better, more creative projects, not just well, I hit this mark or I do this because we've have this goal on a piece of paper or in a sauna or whatever. So I love the the science and art and Magic Talk of marketing. Because it's it's all three and maybe someone will add another one. Maybe there's something we're missing. Still, emily, any thoughts? I know we kind of like started just going because this is a great topic to bring but I'd love to hear anything you're thinking over there. Yeah, well, well, it seems like in this article he's pitting like storytelling and quality versus like scaling content, and I think that there's definitely a way that you can be strategic about both things. Like if you start off with a good piece of content, you can repurpose it and then that's how you scale it in so many different ways, so it doesn't have to be one or the other necessarily. And also, adding to that, like you said, you if you have a team where you have someone who's more of a analytical thinker, who's more into the data side of it, and then you have someone who's more to the creative side of it, that's like a that's a powerful match. So I think that's really important to have people checking each other on certain things and saying, well, maybe we should think about it this way. But I love that idea of like actually scaling quality, so it's like quantity and quality. You find what works and you put out more of that or you break it down into other pieces for social in particular. But I'm wondering, Benjie, since your role is as podcast hosts, like how does that look for you, trying to find the meat of an episode and the quality of it but having to produce so many episodes? Yeah, it's just a constant tension and a conversation that we're always having. Like I enjoy getting to talk to this many people, but I also realize in like with the amount of episodes we come out with, it's just it's just a constant tension. You know, I have to like some days I don't want to show up for this many conversations and other days it's like okay, like I'm in the flow and like like let's just do this thing. It'll be great. So to me, like the back end is where I'm just continuing to try to get better. I think that's where we're a lot of the conversation is is on how do we pull just the gold out of this conversation we had and really give that to our audience in the best way and to the person that took time out of their schedule to come on be to be growth, like how do we equip them with personal assets that they can use that like look good on them because they came and they shared their expertise and they said some great stuff. Like want to set them up to win, you know. So to me that's a big proponent of like great content is. You didn't just put it up somewhere and it exists online now, but like you were able to distribute it well and people are finding it and finding value from it after a week instead of it just dying in the Linkedin Algorithm. But that'll probably always be a battle. Right,...

Bundie, that's interesting. You're talking about something that like really hits on with me, emily, and I talk a lot about this, like how we can do great work, we can do work we're proud of, as Seth God and saying, but also it can be like a tree that falls in the forest and no one hears it right, like if it doesn't get picked up by the algorithm or if it doesn't if we don't distribute it proper like we can do all this great work and we can be really proud of something that just didn't perform, and ultimately that makes us on successful marketers. So, like when we talk about content marketing, we don't just mean content, we mean content marketing, like you actually have to market that asset. You have to get it into people's hands, like you were saying. People have to see it and find value in it. It's not about US patting ourselves in the back and saying, yeah, we did our best job. It's about other people finding value. I think that can be really hard because we we like we're sometimes stuck in this mode of like we're just creating stuff to create stuff and we forget it's all about the value that it creates, not having done it, not checking the box. HMM. Well, I'M gonna start to wrap this thing up, but I gotta say I think if I'm focused on anything right now, it's really deep, like I love when someone writes a book or like a very well detailed content piece and then all the stuff they can pull out of that like that, to me, is basically the best strategy, if I'm looking across like what I admire the most and what I feel like you can get the most out of. You went really deep on a topic, you went really far in so you have this wealth of knowledge and then you're able to pull out all these insights and you can share those on Linkedin and you're not like, Oh, here's this one post about this content piece I did, but it's like here's some of the content from this larger piece I did, and the more we can do that, I think you're valuing your audience because you're giving them some of your insights, and you have so many insights because you did deep research, and that's a really easy way to like carry your strategy for a long time because you can talk on that topic over and over again from different vantage points. So it's something I'm I'm paying attention to because I think there's a lot of people doing it well and it fits really well today because as we were talking to an author who has gone very deep on the topic of marketing and PR and David Meureman Scott, author of new rules of marketing and PR so let's dive into this featured conversation. No, you'll enjoy it and we'll see you again tomorrow. Welcome back to be to be growth. Today I am joined by David Meerman Scott. He is marketing and business growth speaker as well, as many of you will know, the author of new rules of marketing and PR as well as the Wall Street Journal best seller fanocracy. David, pleasure having you here on B tob growth with us. Hey, Benjie's super great to be here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. So the new eighth addition of the new rules of marketing in PR it has gone live and quite an achievement, and so congratulations there, sir. Thank you. I mean it's a remarkable that it's the eighth edition. I mean I when I was originally writing it, which was back in two thousand and five and two thousand and six, I thought I was hitting on some interesting ideas, but I never would have imagined that this book would become what it has become. So, yeah, it's super exciting. Maybe we talked about that here in a minute. Let me ask you this. What are some of the major updates that led to this eighth edition? Some of the things you're really focused on right now? I'm constantly doing a couple of things of my updates, and it's roughly every two years. The first thing I'm doing I read the entire book again each time and I'm looking at every story that I tell. The it's a very much a story driven book and I'm looking at every story that I tell to make sure that's the best story to illustrate that particular point and those that aren't go away, and then I'm looking for new stories that make a ton of sense. So in this addition I think I've got about twenty new stories. There's about fifty or sixty in total in the book. I'm also looking for new tools or new ways to communicate that have either begun or have taken off since the last edition. Example of this in the new edition are social audio apps like clubhouse if, for example, which basically didn't exist when I was writing the seventh edition a couple of years ago. So I'm constantly looking for those new examples and new tools that I can write about interesting. So you're collecting these stories and we'll talk about another couple maybe tools as well in this conversation. But maybe highlight a story for us, one that really steps out to you from this this addition, one of my favorite stories is around news jacking. So newsjacking is a concept I invented more than a decade ago and it's the idea that when you understand how a new story breaks and every new story always breaks in a typical bell shaped curve. The...

...news begins, it begins, it takes off in excitement among the media and people and then at some point it peaks and drops off. Doesn't matter what the new story is. That could be over the course of a few hours, a few days or a few weeks, and the media is looking for experts to be able to quote in the stories as they're breaking and if it's a new kind of story, they don't know who is going to be the right person to quote. So, for example, just two days ago, as we're recording this, it became known that Elon Musk was successful in his bid to acquire twitter. And I know a bit about twitter, I know a bit about Algorithm. So I pushed out a blog post at that moment and I end up getting an interview in tech crunch and I end I ended up being mentioned in Seth Goden's blog, seth being the most popular blogger in the world. Yep, just because I was timely in that content in the new rules of marketing and PR eighth addition, I have a great example of news jacking success from a lawyer named Russell Alexander. And what rust does is he focuses very much on family law, and so his expertise is he understands, in Toronto, in Canada, everything there is to know about law, and so what he did was he created the Covid nineteen and Family Law Information Center, and then that was a great way to push his business out into the market place. He was seen by hundreds and hundreds of people, some of the WHO's, some of whom became clients, and many members of the media. He had actually hire five new lawyers becoming because it became so popular. So that's a story that everyone can relate to around your area of expertise. Another quick story comes from my friend Shelly Palmer. Shelley is very much an expert in Bitcoin and other crypto currencies. So he wrote an instant book and put it out on kindle's direct publishing platform, KTP, which allows anybody to publish a book pretty much instantly. I mean two or three days your book can be out, and it was right when crypto was taking off, and that book ended up becoming super popular among all kinds of executives who needed to understand how crypto worked, and he ended up then getting a bunch of new clients and he charges five figures per month for his clients and generated a great, great deal of new revenue for his business, very much a be to be business, where he's targeting large organizations and educates them around crypto. And it was because He created a book at the exact moment it became, I think it still is, the most popular book on Amazon that explains Crypto. So these are the ideas of newsjacking, but those are a couple of cool examples that are in the new book. Okay, so let's talk about newsjacking for a second. Specifically as it pertains to be to be companies, there are some ways that we should be spotting trends, or you think that be to be companies, in specifically marketing teams, can take advantage of this idea of News Jack and if we just have the eyes to see it hundred percent, it's fabulous for be to be companies. So I always recommend people take a look using their mobile device or their computer at Google news or an equivalent kind of news source, as well as looking at twitter to find out what trending, what hashtags are trending, what stories are trending, and I recommend removing all personalization, because what you're looking for is stories that break that you never saw coming, because that's when a story will be like, oh my gosh, I never saw coming that you on musk was going to potentially buy twitter. Once he does, the media is looking for expertise. I became that expertise. So in a BETB company you've got expertise. You've got expertise around the technology that you provide, you've got expertise around the markets you serve, and if there's an acquisition in your industry, for example, or if there's a new regulatory change in your industry, for example, or if there's some kind of something happening around big picture news, for example, you then have an expertise that the market is looking for, and that is when you should create real time content. That can be a blog post. That's how I've done it. You could write a real quicki book. That's how Shelley Palmer dot did it. You could create a tweet or another social media post using an appropriate Hashtag, and that's actually how I ended up getting the...

...tech crunch in curry, because the reporter was following the Hashtags, and that is how, then you can end up number one, getting interest in the media around your expertise, but you also might end up making sales as a result, because you're seen as the expert, people seek you out and then they might be interested in doing business with you. Okay, so this is just an observation and you push back if I am observing incorrectly. But with the ideas that you just provided for newsjacking, it sounds like you would keep this in some sort of written form or very visual form, but maybe not something like a podcast, if it would have to be like that, alongside a blog post, that alongside something that's written, because there's something about, at least in my mind, the podcast medium, where it's too real time, where like I could just record on my phone and then push it and someone have to go listen to it to make me the expert, whereas they could review written form. Is that right? Am I on the right track there? I would look at it slightly differently. Okay, when there's something that breaks in the news that you never saw coming, you want to try to reach people for whom they don't know who you are yet, if they don't know you're the expert yet, and you need to reach them in a way that they're going to find you. So the nature of a podcast in particular, which was part of the question you asked, is that generally you have your followers, and you know you have. You have tons of people who follow this podcast, which is great, but unless one of them happens to be a reporter, they probably won't listen to this episode in a timely manner. So you can still get your ideas out into in the form of a podcast or the form of a youtube video or the form of another piece of non written content. That's totally fine. You just need to make sure that in some way you're showing that content to people in a way they can find it. So you could do your podcast, great, but then send through twitter or send through Linkedin or send through other ways, using appropriate hashtags, using appropriate keywords that you push out, Hey, I've just done this podcast. We just talked about, for example, Elon Musk buying twitter, we talked about the importance of the Algorithm or whatever it is that you've just done, and then make sure people can see it on twitter, bounce back to then us into your podcast. So the form of the content can be something other than written, but you do need to make sure it gets into the search engine so it's able to be found. Love it and it's so interesting to think from first addition to now. I mean that's what fifteen years when we fifteen here? Fifteen years since the first edition published, but nearly twenty since I started writing these ideas. Yeah, at that point twitter doesn't exist, so the he and facebook is definitely not widely accepted. Might just be for students. So it was only for students at that point when I was first writing. Exactly. Okay, so you're highlighting something that has is available now, this idea of news jacking. I wonder from that go all the way back with me, David. First addition, what has had staying power? Something that you wrote about then that you're going, okay, this is a not so new rule anymore and it's still extremely applicable today. So every edition from the very beginning, what has not changed is the strategy. It's good. The strategy is when you think about the new rules of marketing and PR well, what are the old rules? The old rules of marketing and PR prior to the Web, were there are three ways to get noticed. You could spend a lot of money on advertising, you could advertise and magazines, newspapers, television, radio for be to be. For example, you could advertised by booking space on the trade show for and I'm not saying that's wrong, but that's the only way you could get your word out there. or You could convince the media to write about you some way, and many be to be companies spend tens of thousands of dollars per month on a PR agency. or You could have a massive sales team to go and knock on doors to or pick up the phone and cold call to try to sell your be to be products. Those are still true and I would ask how is that working for you? If you're using those techniques right, if you're spending money to advertise in the trade publication for your your industry, be to be companies of traditionally done, or you're spending a whole lot of money to to have your company exhibit on Trade Show for if it's working, that's awesome, but for many companies it's not working so well. So those are the old rules. The new rules are that you can using the tools of the web, social media, your own website, email, newsletters, blogs,...

...like we're doing right now, a podcast. You can do these things and reach your buyers directly and for free. Yes, it takes time, but it doesn't cost anything, and that's the new rules, and that has not changed in any way over the past nearly twenty years, fifteen years since the first edition was published. It's so interesting because that hasn't changed yet in some ways it's been so sped up and it's gotten more and more noisy. There's a lot of content pollution. There's a lot of voices now, even in a BETB space that can tend to be behind be TOC marketers. We're seeing this trend of content and just for the sake of content, just for the sake of rinking, just for the sake of being and having a presence on social how does that change your mindset as how we have to come to the table with the type of content we're creating and maybe that shifts our mindset slightly differently in the as we produce the work we do. I think were the most important thing around mindsetence. I love the way you frame the question. Is that the vast majority of be to be companies, and I've worked in be tob M. I spent fifteen years doing be to be marketing and sales. I worked for financial information technology businesses like Thompson Reuters and Dowd Jones, and we sold to banks and securities companies and government agencies. So I get it. I've been there myself fifteen years, and what be to be companies have traditionally done and what they still do, and I see it every single day, is they focus on their products and services. And Yeah, they're creating content, but it's all about their products and services. I think what we need to do is completely shift our mindset and think about it instead of what are the problems that are buyers face? How can we understand them? Them in the form of what I call buy our personas, and there's ALD chapter on buy our personas, the idea that if you understand very deeply the problems and the challenges that every buyer has, you can then create the kind of content that will help them to solve their problems, to educate and inform them, and then from there, as they become educated, they become your fan. And then once they become your fan, when they need a practice service like that, they know who to contact. I'll give you an example of a company I've worked with since the very beginning of this book. In two thousand and seven I joined the hub spot advisory board and I've been on the hub spot advisory board since the very beginning, advising. Initially, it would there are eight people in the company when I joined, advising the CO founders, Brian Halligaan Dur mess shot directly, and now they're I don't know, four thousand employees, something like that still working with them. And we focused on just that. We focused on understanding our buyers. We did buy our persona research developed content for buy our personas going back fifteen years ago. Yeah, created a great website, created a blog, created a youtube channel, podcast and now they've got multiples of these channels. They have millions and millions of fans at hub spot and many of them don't buy anything. The vast majority of them actually don't buy anything, but they become fans of the content that hub spot delivers, which is all free. And then from there some of them say, Oh, I need a crm system, I need a marketing automation software system, I need a platform like hub spot delivers. I trust them. They have helped me over the years. That's the company I want to do business with. And they've been doing great. They're growing every single quarter and they went public in two thousand and fourteen and it's been fabulous to see. Yeah, no arguing there. They have done fantastic for themselves and it's fun to watch as they've branched out into podcasting specifically and having a hub spot network of shows. It's an interesting play that I've been paying attention to it it is and there they're, my poster child over the entire length of the book of a company that's adopted these I and I'm not taking the credit they did the work, but that have adopted all of the ideas in the new rules of marketing p are to become a fabulous example of a tremendous success in the B Tob World. One thing we should mention is since the seventh addition, something that's major that's transpired has been this covid pandemic, and yes, that has brought on a lot of transitions or sped up some things. Right. What do you think, because of Covid specifically, have been those largest effects in the things that were now seeing, as specifically as it pertains to marketing and PR so the main thing I've seen, and it's...

...so interesting to me and so important, I think, is that virtual events and the use of video, like we're doing right now. Yep, has sped up during covid because we couldn't meet people facetoface, we couldn't have the trade show, we couldn't have the meetings with clients. So video has become super important. I mean just me and this. I'm doing this presentation from my home studio where I've got a bunch of different cameras that I was going to show you and I didn't turn it on. I've got a bunch of different cameras set up and it's great. It's a great way to communicate and so, interestingly, I did a bunch of research about the neuroscience about why this is true, the neuroscience behind video as a way of communicating. So there's actually two forms of neuroscience. The first form of neuroscience is the idea of proximity. It turns out when we humans get to know other human beings, that's how we become fans, because all humans want to be part of a tribe of likeminded people. So, going back to hub spot, they've built a tribe of likeminded people and they can get twenty four pre pandemic twenty fivezero people in person to their inbound event every year in Boston, and I've presented at that conference every single year since it started. And people are like minded. They're there because they want to be together with people who are just like them, the same reason that I'm a huge fan of the grateful dead and go I've been to eighty five grateful dead concerts. I go to grateful dead concerts. I I'm with my friends. When I'm Surfing, I'm surfing with my friends, my tribe of like minded people. And so it turns out one neuroscientist named Edward t hall identified the different levels of proximity. Further than twelve feet is called public space. We know people in our public space. We don't actively track them, we know they're there. You know, if you're walking down the street you see with someone approaching, you know they're there. Once they get inside of twelve feet, between twelve feet and four feet, that's called social space and we begin to track those people. If you walk into a room, let's say you walk into a cocktail party, your immediately looking around for people who are within twelve feet of you, who you might know, or you're also looking for enemies. That goes back tens of thousands of years. It's it's in our brain. It's hardwired. We want to know. Is Our tribe here, because that's when we're safe and comfortable, or are these people, people we don't know and there's potentially danger? We can't help but feel that way. Inside of four feet is where the most powerful human connections happen, positive or negative, and that's called personal space. So the second idea around neurosciences the idea of mirror neurons. Mirror neurons are the part of our brains that fire when we see somebody doing something as if we're doing it our self, which I'll demonstrate for you now. I brought a leman and I have a slice of lemon here, and so if I were to take a bite of this lemon, my brain will fire. But what's interesting is, because of mirror neurons, your brain will fire two so, even if you're listening and not watching this, you can imagine what I'm doing now. I'm holding a lemon in one my left hand. I'm only a slice of lemon in my right hand. I'm now going to take a bite of the slice of lemon and it's wow, it's super powerful. It makes my eyes close. My eyes are actually watering a little bit. My mouth puckers up. I can feel it on my tongue and on my lips. My brain is firing like crazy because I taken a bite of this lemon. Bengie, your brain is firing. Tell me right, that's exactly right. I feel it in the back of my jaw. You're tasting that lemon. How interesting is that? That's mirror neurons. Yeah, holding those two concepts together, the power of being physically close to somebody, together with the power of mirror neurons, means that when you see somebody on video and you have a conversation, your brain and my brain are firing as if we're in the same room having this conversation, perhaps over a glass of wine or perhaps over a coffee. And that's a very, very powerful thing and it is exactly the reason why why you feel you know a movie or a television star, even though intellectually you know you've never met them. You and I right now intellectually know we're not in the same room. I'm in outside of Boston, and and so you know you could be watching this, you could be in Australia, you know, miles and miles and miles away, but you can still feel your brain as if we're in the same room together,...

...which is exactly why virtual events have become so interesting to me and it's also exactly why video has taken off during the pandemic. You asked me a really simple question about what the covid pandemic has done for the new rules of marketing in PR and I had to jump into the narrow science behind this because to me it's fascinating. It's all around the power of video, which is not going away. Yes, we're going to begin doing in person conferences. I'm booked for one and next week, I think. And yes, in person sales meetings from be tob companies, in person customer meetings with be to be companies are definitely going to begin taking off the ladder half of twenty two and into two thousand and twenty three. But video is here to stay. Hey, be to be growth listeners, we want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to B TOB growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus the first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two letter be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to enter and look forward to hearing from you. Yes, we're going to begin doing in person conferences. I'm booked for one and next week, I think. And yes, in person sales meetings from be tob companies, in person customer meetings with be to be companies are definitely going to begin taking off the ladder half of twenty two and into two thousand and twenty three. But video is here to stay. I think this fascinating road that you just took us down. Let me play student for a second here and ask, because where I go is this space of while I feel connected to you right now, David, and you can use the lemon example and we can go okay, you sense this. There's the the marketing side or the public side. That's great. You can connect people all over the world, but I think this at the same time we're navigating a conversation right now internally, within work and within job jobs, where we're going. Okay, we all feel somewhat disconnected, even though we're on these video calls, even though we've figure it out ways to use zoom more efficiently or try to have a culture for our institutions. You know, while we're all working from home and can hear our dogs and babies in the background, we can we close our laptops. That sense of disconnection is also something many are navigating. How do you see those two both Yay, we can be connected from anywhere and Nay, we can be connected from anywhere but not so connected. How do you see those playing together or where do you see that going as you think of how we navigate that? Well, I think that it's not necessarily an either or kind of thing and I think that getting back to the things that we all loved to do pre pandemic, going to the conference, meeting with customers over dinner or any of those sorts of activities, or having a meeting in your office with your colleagues in the company that you work for. I don't believe that those should go away because we can use video for some of those activities. I think the hybrid world, or a world where both of them coexist is the best way for a be to be company to be thinking about this. You know what that means for work. Might be in the office, three days off, two days or something like that. Or in the case of people who live remotely, you got to you got to come to headquarters a couple weeks out of the year. What it means for selling is sure, you can do some selling over zoom, but getting to meet that customer, just like the old days, facetoface over a meal, absolutely important. Getting your customers together for a customer conference once a year critically important. Physically together critically important. Going to the conference and being seen and interacting with existing and potential customers. That's not going away. That's also going to be very important. So I think it's a matter of using video effectively at the same time that we get back to the things that have worked traditionally for for dozens and dozens of years with be to be companies. Yep, and along those lines. Then for you you're going with virtual events and I would agree. I don't see that going away at all. You're going to have physical events come back, but almost all those events are going to have some sort of online video format that goes right alongside where people are joining from everywhere and anywhere. I...

...think that's probably true and I think that's what's important to be consider if that's a thing that you're you're going to be doing with your be to be company for everyone who's listening in is don't just have video cameras record the inperson component of the speech, of the presentations. Make it a true hybrid. A true hybrid take the best of of the virtual environment together with the best of the in person and arm and I'll give you an example of what I mean by that. You can have a keynote speech, for example, where there somebody delivering a keynote that can be filmed and broadcast, and then you could have the inperson audience do a q and a with the speaker while the virtual audience takes a break. Then the speaker runs to a room when the inperson audience takes their coffee break and then the speaker does a virtual Qa with on video with the virtual audience where the virtual audience can ask questions. That's a true hybrid experience and that's where I think we need to go, and not very many companies or testing that yet, but that's the direction I think we need to go to leverage the best of both worlds. Simply recording your in person stuff and broadcasting it is not going to work so well, in my opinion. Well, I want to discuss one other thing that I know you and I are both particularly interested in and we're monitoring, and it's a piece of this book that's new that you really spend some time on, which is around ai and how AI is influencing marketing. So let's dive in there. How have you seen ai tools really take a leap and start helping marketers and coming alongside us? Huge Ai over the last two editions of the new rules and marketing and PR so roughly the last five years, has really really taken off. So there's some ai tools that happen kind of behind the scenes that we don't even know about, like if you're using any of the social networking companies, advertising platforms Linkedin, facebook and so on, there's AI components in there to understand who to show the ads too and you don't even see that. You don't push any buttons to make that happen. If you're using, for example, tools like hub spot. There's tools within those kinds of systems that help you to create the best headline for a blog post, for example, things like that. You don't even know that's going on behind the scenes when you're using those tools sometimes. And then there's the tools that you can actually buy, like, for example, I'm a fan of a transcription service called Otter Ai, and so I take the recordings of speeches, I take the recordings of interviews I've done, drop them in and their ai engine then creates a transcript. Many podcasters use that. That those tools as well. That helps me a ton when I'm doing an interview and then creating a blog post or a story in the book around that, because I don't have to transcribe by hand. And I'm a huge fan of a company called lately, and lately is an AI engine for creating short form content from long form content. So, for example, what you can do is you can drop in an entire blog post or a chapter of a book, and that's a text based piece of content or a video or a podcast, and then when the lately ai engine does is it then puts it into social media ready chunks. So that, for example, one blog post that I write a blog on at least once a week. A blog post will then be generating fifteen or even twenty tweets and it takes just seconds to do that. Now I'll go in and I'll edit the make sure they're okay. So roughly ten minutes total to generate fifteen or twenty amazing tweets. Then I can schedule them one per day or two per week or when every two weeks, or whatever schedule I want. And this is transformed the way I use twitter because it's allowed me to create really easily a whole bunch of short form, in this case tweets, or they could also be linked in posts or instagram posts from one blog post, where I used to just take the headline of the blog post, put in the URL, push that out and that was the extent of me showing my twitter followers that I've got a new blog post. Now I'm putting out tweets and other customers of lately are putting out tweets on a regular basis. or I'll take a onehour video, drop it in and I'll get ten or fifteen or twenty, thirty or forty five se in clips that I can...

...use on social media. That's all AI driven. Super, super powerful example of how ai can be used for be to be companies, because these tools make our jobs easier and it's not going to take away the jobs of marketers. It's going to make us more efficient. It's going to allow us to do a heck of a lot more than we're able to do today if we're doing all those things manually. I like that optimism. And we know we're not in just a content creation space anymore. We're in a need for distribution space, and so it will, like lately, is helpful and coming alongside there. We're okay, I've created this piece of content, I've poured my effort in my work into it. Let's make sure this is properly distributed and put before people. So as a great example. Are there any negatives, as you see what's happening with algorithms and AI, that really stand out to you, David? Unfortunately, yes, I I'm a very, very pessimistic about the polarizing nature of social media algorithms, especially facebook. There's dangers with all the algorithms, but facebook, I believe, is by far the most dangerous, because facebook is tuned to get you to stay as long as possible on the facebook network and they've figured out that anger gets you to stay on the network longer and therefore it's tuned to show you things that are likely to make you angry and it drives polarization here in this country. It's the red team against the blue team. It creates things like people fighting over whether back scenes are safe and effective or not. It drives things like the events of January sixth, and these things are really, really dangerous. And so I believe actually the facebook algorithm is one of the most destructive technologies ever invented. I really do. I think it's that bad. There's two billion people on facebook around the world using it on a very regular basis, and that many of those people become susceptible to conspiracy theories and they don't even know it because of the way the algorithm works. If all of the people you interact with on facebook are talking about a particular conspiracy theory, you naturally think that everyone believe, everyone knows this is true. I've seen it on facebook Wateryson. So yeah, and and I believe this is a very, very, very destructive for all of humanity. And you know, I don't know what we can do about it. FACEBOOK is a private company. They can essentially do what they want. All of the social networks have been. When they're brought in front of Congress here in this country or or when they're talking about how their systems work, they all go back to the idea of free speech and the ability to say whatever people want and the fact that they have ways to remove content. That's not true. Okay, that's fine, but that's not the problem. They're focusing everyone's attention to on to something that's not the problem. The fundamental problem isn't that a few people are talking about conspiracy theories. The fundamental problem is that the social media technology is spreading that like wildfire. And but they don't want that to be the debate. They want the debate to be we're dealing with the problem of conspiracy theories, even though they're not really doing a great job at that either. They want that to be the debate. They don't want the debate to be around the algorithm and the technology. So I think that's a challenge and don't know how we can solve it. But I believe that's a huge challenge. The pace at which misinformation spreads to is so much faster, and so it's this thing that, while there's so much great connection that can happen online, the the speed at which we can spread misinformation without knowing it is we have to get that under control and it'll be interesting to see how we go about that. I find it interesting, and we mentioned this right off the top, so maybe this is coming full circle, but with Elon Musk has purchase of twitter, one of the things he has been talking about is this idea of being able to really tell what's a human what's about, and I think that's going to be a fascinating conversation moving forward as well. As Ai is more involved in our lives, how we interact on in line can be dictated without knowing it. We're interacting with bots and we're interacting with all sorts of misinformation. So if we can get that under control, not saying musk will do it, but I think that's a question that we're all asking. I'm very optimistic that if he can solve that problem on twitter that that would be a big step. I mean there's a moody stand millions of fake, fake accounts on twitter. There's millions of millions of robot based accounts on twitter and one of the things he's been talking about is that every twitter account's going to be need to be verified as...

...being a human. Yeah, if he can pull it off, I'm all for it. I think that would be go a long, long long way to solving the problem of some of the negative aspects of twitter. So I'm rooting for him to be successful around that. You and me both well, David. It has been such an honor to have you here on Bob Growth with us, and congratulations again on this eighth addition. For people that want to stay connected to you, tell us what's the best way to do that. We've mentioned twitter a number of times, but where sh your people connect? So I'm DM Scott, DMSCOTT on twitter, same hand, on instagram. You can easily find me on the other social networks and you can usually easily find me on google. One of this the chapters in the new roles of marketing mprs about search engine optimization and I always tell people when you're thinking of a new company name, product name, book name, always, always, always, check the search engines to make sure if you can own that book title, which I've written twelve books. In every case we've done that and my name is David Merman Scott. Merriman is my middle name. More than twenty years ago I started to use my middle name professionally because I'm the only David Merman Scott and in the entire world nice, that's good boat load of David Scott. So there's a David Scott who walked on the moon and with a Paula fifteen. There's a David Scott who's an iron man triathlon champion, there's a David Scott who's a member of Congress from the state of Georgia. I couldn't compete as David Scott, but as David Merman Scott I'm the only one on the planet. So you have the simple question how can people reach me? But it's actually a new rule. that new rule is always make sure you test any name that you're going to use. In fact, a little personal note here, Ben g, if I may. My daughter and her husband had my first grandchild four days ago and I'm so wonderful. Thank you. Her name is Sarah Moon Gooley Scott and in any way that you look at it, just take her first name, Sora. Sora in her last name, Gooley Scott, which is the last name, my last name, Scott, my son in law's last name Goolay. They put it together when they got married. She's the only Sarah Gooley Scott in the entire world. So I don't know that she did it because of me. I don't think she did, but hey, brand new child born in the world, unique on the web. Go by the URL now already done well. It's been great to have you here with us today, David. Thank you so much for spending time and stop and buy and now we know this conversation is going to help fuel growth and innovation for so many of our B to be marketers that are listening. My pleasure, Benji. Really appreciate you having me on for our listeners. If you have yet to follow the show, we would encourage you to do that on whatever podcast platform you listen to this on. Connect with me on Linkedin. Just search Benji block over there. Would love to chat with you about marketing, about business, about life. Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish we produce podcast for some of the most innovative brands in the world, and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet PHISH MEDIACOM.

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