B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1681 · 5 months ago

Never Grow Your Show Alone, with Dan Sanchez

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji interviews Dan Sanchez, Director of Audience Growth here at Sweet Fish Media.

Are you a B2B Podcaster interested in joining Mic Club? Learn more and sign up here.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and today we are joined by obviously a very dear friend of feed of be growth, a former host, someone that you guys are all probably well aware of, Mr Dan Sanchez Dan Chez. As many of you would know, I'm director of audience growth here at sweet fish. Dan, we're glad to have you here with us today. It's fun to be back on the other side because as a past host, I've interviewed other pass hosts and have made the same introduction on my huh. We welcome back. It's kind of weird to be the show so so many hosts, so many episodes. Oh Man, yeah, it is so funny, like interviewing rex, who was on way back in the day, and we've had some of those, like previous hosts that are back and but it's always fun to get to chat with you and glad you're here. So here's the deal. The last year you have had quite that evolution. You've been focused in on a number of things, so just catch us up to speed real quick. What have you been working on and what's your what's your attention been on lately here Nice? I like that late in man. Working at a startup is not for the faint of heart and honestly, I don't think I could have it any other way. I'm pretty much addicted to two types of organizations, startups and nonfits, because there's no red tape around things. If you have an idea in a vision to see things through, it's like, as long as it doesn't cost a lot of money and you can pretty much handle it yourself. Not Profits and startups will just let you go at it, which is kind of what I love. You can just go in totally different directions and try new things and fail and try and win. You know, big visions, small budgets, and then you're trying to do the crazy stuff, which is the end at fast. Usually I love the atmosphere of these types of workizations, and sweetish is no exception. I'd say. We're just beyond the startup phase. We know who we are, we know who we serve, we know we have good stuff. What we have a product, good product, market fit, as they say. But still we're scaling up and it leads to all kinds of interesting hurdles but oftentimes opportunities. So even just a few months ago I was presented with an opportunity to actually not just be the director of marketing but butcher's suit pursue audience growth as a full time thing, even though that was already in my title, is already the director of audience growth, that was already consulting customers on Audience Growth Multiple Times a week as well as running marketing. I left my marketing responsibilities behind and then just started pursuing building a product around audience growth and we're slowly rolling that out still. In addition, we're still trying to grow the audience for sweetish. We have this awesome podcast BB growth, but I launched a whole new podcast just around audience growth called attention. So that's kind of what I've been working on like feverishly over the last...

...few months. It's a pretty big shift to my daily Ray responsibilities, not being over sweet fishes general marketing, but I'm still consulting customers on audience growth, I'm still building podcasts. Is just not betb growth, whole new podcast. You can find it their attentioncom but that it's going to continue growing. But now we've shifted again and we're starting on a new endeavor. Yep, yeah, and so I guess that the words become audience, which is something you've been thinking about a lot over the last few months, and then community, right, and so you're thinking a lot about both, and I want to jump in here today with kind of pondering both of those. Like how do you see, with the work you've done around audience and now thinking about community, how you see those things really differing? And kind of a second question here. What do you think is more difficult to foster and why? Man, they are different and it's hard because a lot of people are throwing these terms around all the time and they kind of mean one or the other or kind of goes back and forth. They say one but they mean the other. To meet it was really clear from the beginning Seth Goden, who's like like a saint of of marketing thinking, right. He's are Yoda influenced many marketers like, well, a lot of millennial marketers and probably jen x marketers specifically. He wrote a fantastic book that was pivotal, called tribes, where he really spells out audience growth and community, and audience grew growth. He defines as like the one to many connection. It's mainly mainly one person or one company with the attention and communication to many individuals that are giving them their attention right and it might be a die and engaged audience where that person or company is engaging in dialoging with all these separate people. But all those people aren't talking to each other. But that's an audience. You have a bunch of people listening to you, but those people aren't necessarily talking to each other. Now, if all those people are talking to each other and they all have similar things in common, whether it's the types of companies they work for, the types of work they do, or similar interest similar backgrounds, geographic locations, whatever it is, there's something that ties them together. If they're all talking together and there's not a clear hierarchy, they're just all gathering together on one topic, that's a community. If you have both together, where there's an audience and a community, that's what Seth God and calls a tribe. The funny thing is they can be separate. A community doesn't necessarily have to have a leader. There is all kinds of groups out there that are genuine communities. All the communities really serving each other, helping each other, talking and having a lot of getting a lot of value out of that community. But they don't necessarily have a leader. And there's lots of audiences, of course, that aren't communities, but both can go handinhand as well. You can use community to build an audience, you can use an audience to build a community. They can go either way. When I think of audience, like just to because I'm very visual person. So when I when...

I think of an audience, I think of people sitting like in an amphitheater watching a show. You're watching what's happening on a stage, right. And when you think of community, I think of like an AA meeting. We're like they're sitting in a circle, you're looking at each other. It's just probably a smaller group where more people have an opportunity. You, you say your peace and people chime in and there's a back and a forth. When you think of how they can feed each other, I didn't know we were follow up question here, like how do you see them feeding each other, and which one do you think if you were like just starting and you can create whatever you want. Dan, which one would you build first right now? I would start with audience growth because that's kind of what I have my experience in and it's easier for me. I know more about audience growth, and idea community communities kind of a new topic for me. Well, I've been in communities and I've done I've done I've done some community related things. I've been a social media manager before. I've developed small intimate groups and have led many small intimate groups before, even that of my own making, where I go and find a bunch of people I like and we get together in a group, we talk and we we help each other, we learn from each other. Like I've done a lot of the activities, but never have been charged or cast with creating a community that wasn't already meeting right. MMM. So, just because I've more familiar with one, I'd probably start with audience growth and then you who's a build up of an audience in order to then start connecting the audience members to each other. But honestly, you could go the total opposite way. If you have more of a knack for bringing people together, then you can actually start to build an audience out of all those community members. There's even a fantastic book for startups of people who want to go into pre existing communities in order to build audiences from them to then launch a product to there's a great book. It's called the embedded entrepreneur. I'm looking at my bookshof on my God, it's color coded, so I'm like, where is the light? There is the embedded entrepreneur. It's a fantastic book about how to essentially go into existing communities that are out there, becoming part of the group, serving, helping, becoming known and an authority figure in the growing an audience from it so that you can build a business with authority already built and you don't have to do the marketing so much because you've already built the relationships. So I think both methods are viable. It just depends on I don't know which one's your forte exactly. I love how you can kind of come at this from either angle and lean into something we talked about here. We've talked about it recently, but like your personality, your unique point of view, that you're definitely going to have a leaning wet in this conversation. Okay, so you're thinking about community. Let's go down this road a little bit more, because maybe audience is something that comes a little more naturally to you. You're having to put in the work to really learn on the community side of things. What makes you really passionate about the community side? What do you start to realize this could be a pretty incredible...

...lane to run in and and what gets you excited about it? I get excited because I love learning and I find the best learning happens with other people. I'm really good at learning by myself. I mean I'm an avid reader. I'll go on along run and listen to like five bucks over a couple of weeks on one topic and then blog about it and talk about it and play with it and do it like I love. I love just storing myself in. But honestly, some of the best learnings that you can never get from books is from genuine conversations with other people who are doing the same thing you are, and I missed that. I think I took for granted how much that kind of happened naturally when I was in a work environment post pandemic, when a lot of people are working for mote and I've been working remote since the pandemic. That hasn't been nearly as much as it should be. Praise God, I got on Linkedin right away and Linkedin has been that community for me. So I have fantastic conversationss in the comments all the time where I throw out ideas, people challenge them and we go back and forth and sometimes I back down from things, sometimes I only become more resolved in my points of view. But that's where a lot of the learning comes from me and honestly it's more rewarding just because these aren't just people that I'm learning from, like I'm building genuine relationships with right, all the sudden work is more entrenched in real meaning, right, because relationships give meaning to things. That makes things more valuable and more fun and more interesting and worthwhile. So it's not just me working here for a paycheck. I'm living life. I mean, we're going to spend ninetyzero hours in our job, it better it should be meaningful in some way and relationships is a big part of that. Yeah, so that's what I like about community. I've done it in some avenues, but I also just wanted to start being more intentional about it in cultivating it stronger just beyond me, because I might have a lot of relationships on Linkedin, but I want to start pulling in other people to make it beneficial for other people to get the same amount of, I don't know, relationships that I have through something like Linkedin, though it doesn't necessarily have to be through linkedin. I think one thing that you said that's interesting that I'm definitely watching in this post pandemic timeframe is like I don't think it's we're in this interesting space where communities being talked about, like I mean, if you scroll Linkedin, it's like one in every five post is guy. I mean it is everywhere right and a lot of it is brought on because I think we're feeling and sensing something under the surface of like a need to connect with other people in the post pandemic timeframe in a way, and obviously we're trying to drive business. There's like all these other things too that people are doing with community when they're bringing it up on Linkedin. But at its core I do think there's this we're all wrestling with. So much changed by going remote. How do we genuinely connect with others that are interested in similar things to us now that we're all spread out here. We're all you know, but how can we gather around a common interest? And I'm very interested to see how...

...community continues to grow, as were, getting more and more used to remote work, but also needing to connect with other people that are interested in similar things. So I love the potential for for where community can go. Let's talk specifically about the type of community that you're now focused on building. Dan Be to be podcasting right. Walk us through what this is going to look like in a little bit of of what Mc Club is exactly. You know, it's funny. Essentially, a couple of weeks ago, James Carberry, the founder of sweet fish, pulled me aside. He's like, Hey, I really want you to focus on my club, which is the community, and we've had some soft launches of this thing. We put out some content and our might club the podcast before and I was like Huh, okay, and I just kind of like, I didn't say, I didn't I didn't hit an enthusiastically at first, but I didn't say I didn't downplay it. few days and then I heard a podcast with Mr Beast yeah and Joe Rogan, fantastic freaking podcast. You have to go listen to it if you're in content creation at all, and there was something he said in there. As I was thinking about this mic club thing, this community thing, I'm like, Huh, how can I take this on? How can I actually do something with this? I'm more of an audience growth guy than a community builder, but I'm intrigued about this and there was something that Mr be said that he did early on in his youtube career that clicked with me and I'm like, that's what my club could be. HMM. He talked about when he first went hard Coren to Youtube, be pretty much isolated. This is an extreme example, but he isolated himself, did nothing but youtube, thought, Youtube, dreamed, Youtube, accept obsessed over Youtube, read everything, talked to everyone who knew anything, which in those days was very little, and found a few other people. That's the key idea. Found a few other people that were doing the same thing. He was trying to go after the same thing, and they talked together, they work together. They essentially formed their own little private community to accelerate their growth together and to get essentially to get some kind of meaning, you like, some sense of belonging to something right, because nobody else understood him. To everybody else they were freaks, they were weird, like nobody was into Youtube back then, but these few people did. And because of that, because of the sharpening, not only were they sharpening themselves by learning and growing and try and experimenting, but doing it with other people means you could just go so much farther faster, you know. And there's that I think it's an African quote, like if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together. Yep, can tell you. And Swahili they say pull a, pull a mean Yep, and that's what he did. And I'm like, I remember listening to that and I was like, yes, that's what I want, and I'm not going after Youtube. I'm a BB podcaster and I want that kind of community. I want some some other BB podcast just to rub shoulders with and go in it together. Maybe not with the same level of and die hard intensity that miss your beast did, but not...

...too far off either. I would love to be going at it with a group of people, maybe with that intimate group and then a broad our community, all trying to go together, because even though I talked a lots of people about podcasting on Linkedin, MMM, still not quite the same. It's not the same as going at it with a group the people that are all dedicated to this idea of how to make awesome content with the PODCAST, how to improve their hosting, the technical side, the microphones, the scripting, how to do better pre interviews, like all the little tiny details that it takes to be great, how to do them better, and then go and seek expert help, you know, and go pursue it, have accountability together. Yeah, okay. So let's go practical here. On my club. You mentioned some soft launches, you mentioned some stuff that we've done in the past. Let's compare contrast. What was it before and maybe like what people have seen versus where you see this thing going and what's going to be different now? Moving ahead down so before my club was a podcast, we essentially had always set a goal of launching with members, but we had a hard time figuring out like, what is membership look like? How and how do we do we gate all the content for the members? We put it out there. So we were just publishing episodes we were essentially dumping our best ideas on podcasting into a podcast, you know, little Meta, but it worked. People would ask questions and instead of just sending the individual the response, we would record it and drop it into an episode and call it. My Club did that for a few months and then, and other things happen, that kind of went to the wayside for a while. So that's what it was. Now my club is a community. It's still going to have a podcast in the middle, feeding out some content every week with a couple of us from sweet fish talking about things that are going on that are relevant to bb podcaster is talking about industry, podcasting news that's relevant for be tob highlighting members and what they're doing well and answering frequently ask questions that we're seeing from from members. But it's going to be more than that podcast. It's going to be a daily channel where we can actually talk about what we're doing on a daily basis and actually have those conversations. That makes a community a community again, members talking to themselves, not just someone speaking from a stage, even if it's a digital, work from home, yeah, studio stage. So that's a part and then doing a monthly get together digitally in a Webinar, but something that's more than a Webinar actually include including community participation, probably highlighting a few members and doing a teardown of podcasts, bringing in an expert speaker from the outside to bring value to the members every single month. And what I'm trying to work on right now is actually doing a live event. Now it's going to start small, so I don't want to promise like we're going to launch our own event with its own venue and everything, but I'm like, man, could we like piggyback off the back of podcast movement, since that's already a podcasting event that would be mostly relevant for Beb podcasters than just do a breakout from that? That's what we're kind of organizing now.

Details still to come on that of when and if we're going to be doing that. I guess podcast movements at the end of August, so there's a general timeline, but that's kind of what we're looking at and starting small, starting intimate. We're hoping to launch with probably a hundred members and probably launching with one core group to do that, Mr Beast kind of group, and I'm going to be reaching out to individual BEDB podcasters that I think would be interested, some that are in sweetfish, some that are outside is sweet fish, to see if we could find a crew if you think that would be you, like you want to be intense and meet weekly with me and just a bunch of others just kind of go round table and go and just pursue perfection. When it comes to be to be podcasting, you can certainly reach out to me and I'll can will consider bringing you into that group and we might break out more small groups afterwards. But there's going to be a season where there's just one group and I think we're going to be publishing everything live, but only members can actually take part in the conversation contribute to the monthly live meeting. All the information will be accessible, but for members who are actively working on a b Tob podcast, membership means you get to actually participate in the community. I think you just answered a key question that I haven't followed to that. I love. All of that very interesting. I think it's needed, especially for be to be podcasters. Like we're hitting a really hyper specific niche. But WHO's a good fit? And you just spoke to that. There go a little bit further down that road. So someone's interested in be to be podcasting, but they're not currently running a show. They can access the content, but they're probably not in this group right. Like, how are you determining who's good fit and WHO's in? Speak a little more there. If you're on the outside, you don't have a BDB podcast, you're not in that group yet because you're your company's just thinking about it, you're considering starting a podcast. I want to make sure the information that we're putting out there, the weekly podcast, the monthly live event, is all accessible. You can go and be a spectator. In fact, that's what we call we're calling those spectators people who can watch the live stream, who can then listen to every single episode. We gate nothing. What we do? I guess we get we don't get any content. We will gate is the actual community aspect. If you want to become a member, then you need to have a live podcast. So we're going to be asking for your you know, podcast website url or even to apple podcast wherever it is, so I can verify that, hey, you're a BEDB company, here's the podcast, and then that everybody on that kind of a basis and make sure it's an active podcast like you're actually doing something pretty low buried entry like. It's not like I'm looking for a certain amount of episodes, but it needs to have been published recently. Those are going to be members. And then I'm going to have that again the the inside circle called the ring leaders, who are meeting weekly. Again, that's that's invite only, but I'll be looking for looking for people over the next couple of weeks to form that. Okay, so let's start to wrap up the conversation here. As far as reaching out, obviously you're very active on Linkedin. I'm sure people can shoot you a DM, but is there somewhere else that you want to send people to to get more information, or how should we go about that?...

Go to join my clubcom. That's the website where you're going to be able to find the podcast episodes, but you're also find links to be able to subscribe, find the next live events and ultimately become a member. There's going to be a page you can just go to join my Clubcom, slash join, and you can read the criteria for becoming a member and submiture your podcast for radio. Dan, it's been fun to chat with you about this. Were learning a lot from your work on the audience side and now the community side. So thanks for stopping by be to be growth and it's been a pleasure chatting absolutely thanks, beggie Hey, for our listeners love this conversation on community. Know that a lot of you are thinking about that. You're reading about it on Linkedin. So we hope that you found today's episode insightful and we hope it helps fuel your growth in your innovation. Don't miss an episode. You can subscribe to be to be growth on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on right now. Connect with me on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block, talking about marketing, business and life over there, and would love to hear from you. Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish we produce podcast for some of the most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos, linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit Sweet Fish Mediacom.

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