B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1678 · 4 months ago

Leverage ABM and Creativity to Thrive with Christine Switzer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to Christine Switzer, a marketer at Ridgeline.

Much of the work Christine does in her role these days is thinking about — How to sell a brain transplant and heart surgery. Not literally, but instead how to get across a complex value prop in an industry often set in its ways. Christine shares her learnings today to help you level up your marketing and messaging right away.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block. Today I am joined by Christine Switzer. She is over marketing and communications at Ridgeline. Christine, welcome to be tob growth. Hi, Benjie, great to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so you have worked with a number of large, old notable companies and you are in the midst of a new challenge, a start up, and you're looking to bring some much needed change and kind of overhaul really to an industry. So tell us right here at the top, Christine, what you're working on this new venture and maybe what excites you most about about the work you're doing. Sure. Yeah, so I spend probably the last decade a combination of some fortune, five hundred like total household names, tons of heritage, lots of brand recognition there and in the for the last year I've been at Ridge Line, which is a early stage financial technology startup, so a little bit different just from just from a marketing standpoint, but it's an incredibly exciting opportunity. So Ridgeline is the industry cloud platform for investment management. So we are offering the investment management industry something that has not previously been available to them, a completely holistic solution for their technology on a single platform. HMM. Prior to Ridgeline, their options have been much more disparate and disjointed and they've had to come up with different sort of like patches and workarounds and things that lead to a lot of frustration in their day to day operations. So one thing that's been incredibly exciting and just energizaying about coming to rich lines is that I don't think I've ever been part of an organization that the audience, our target audience, is just so receptive to what we're doing, like when we tell them our value preposition, I mean we see genuine excitement and there's just this like we're all sort of just like levitating from this this like level of anticipation that we're feeling from our target and you know, it's just it's really motivating as a BEDB marketer to to feel like you are authentically filling a void in a landscape for your target audience. They actually they need this and they recognize that they need this, and that doesn't end. I should cough yet because that doesn't mean it's easy to sell this product and we'll t I know we'll talk about that today, but I think what it does is sort of remedy some of that cognitive dissonance that as a marketer, we sometimes have around selling something that maybe your hearts aren't like fully in. But I just that is not been the case with regine. It's it's very easy to see our value proposition is very compelling...

...toward target and that, you know, that makes it a little bit easier for me to sleep at night and for me to get up and go to work in the morning and that kind of thing. Yeah, so it's energizing for sure. Okay, so, on one hand people know that they need it, but I'll quote you here because you said that much of the work you're doing in marketing and communications these days is and this is I love how you said this. You said we're trying to figure out how do we sell a brain transplant and heart surgery, and I think that'll resonate with our audience. Who has has to convince an industry may be kind of set in their ways or just because it could be slow moving and there can be multiple people in the decisionmaking process. Man, we have this new tool, this new tech, like it's helpful, but how do we actually navigate messaging and targeting? Right? So, expand on what you meant by that statement. How do I sell brain transplant and heart surgery? Wait, you don't want to sign up for them? Right, I'M gonna go ahead and pass, I think, in the immediate but I'm sure you'll convince me otherwise. Right, yeah, so, so, yeah, I feel like I opened just very strong on how our audience are, our market, sort of recognize this. They need this. But at the same time, even if you, even if your doctor says, Hey, you need the surgery, you're not thrilled about it right now. What you're going to go to it together. So I actually let me give a little background on kind of the history of rich line. We have been round all that long, but I think it's helpful to know that for for your listener. So, ridgime is founded by an individual named Dave Daffield. He's an iconic software entrepreneur. He founded people soft, he founded work day, and what he is really successfulat is recognizing these like very juicy business problems, these sort of like systemic to an industry issues and throwing all the necessary resources against them to to solve it with like very cutting edge, sort of like nascent technologies that maybe have not had universal adoption yet. So what we're doing for investment management is not like a band aid fix. It's not like we're taking tech towards like a little bit of some of the pain or some of the issues in the industry. It's really this like enterprise scale, kind of like the whole and Chilata reimagining of what could we do if we could do this better? And so originally we call this like the hard stuff, but we certainly recognize that for our customers, for our target audience, this is also very hard for them in the sense that it's it's really daunting that even if we're giving them change that they're asking for, in change that they want, it still feels scary. So I think, long answer to your question, I think that what we're doing is akin to like what a doctor would have to do, right, we would have to explain that it's really a matter of survival, like you need this because it's a matter of survival. Right. So, like, yes, there're a short term discomfort that I think anyone that is in the business of selling technology would be familiar with because companies get so entrenched in the technology that they...

...use. In a lot of our customers and a lot of this industry have been using the same tech for decades, decades, and so you know, like you just understand inherently without having to explain like why that's so challenging. But I think, like when I say matter of survival, a lot of that is that the industry is beginning to recognize that like digital transformation is coming right and it's unavoidable. So they are realizing that there is a possibility of that kind of idea of like being left behind if you don't embrace that and you don't recognize this change that's coming and that's being really embraced by the earlier doctors of the industry, that you will be a little bit left out in the cold potentially. So so that helps, I think, is is being able to talk to people who see that coming and who understands that. The other thing is just really like knowing their pain and being super fluent in that. So understanding their pain is really what our role is. Is a marketer, right, so that we can translate into the solution to that pain, and so we're kind of trying to convince them that we understand that pain, we are the right people to do it, and that sort of gives a foundation to like become an easier proposition to go through this like really brutal surgery. Well, yeah, so the industry feels the Tendin they they have this lack of technology. You got good marketing can help put that finger on the tension leads them in a better way, right. But much of your work, and you're alluding to this, is convincing companies that it's worth the change, it's worth the risk. Everyone kind of has maybe their unique approach to address some of those splinters that their ICP is feeling. I'd love to hear what you guys are learning around that, what you're trying around that to remove some of those splinters that they may feel. Yeah, I think. I think principally we consider this a bit of like a three legged stool. So the first one is is our product, right, so the actual the actual product that we are selling to them. We built this product in collaboration with our early customer, so it reflects their voice because it was built in collaboration with them. This is not us telling them what they need, this is them telling us what they need, what's painful to them, what is driving them crazy about their legacy platforms, and then us, you know, developing that solution that they can test, that they can feel, that they can experience for themselves, and then continuing through that development stage with us, through Beta testing and refining it with us to deliver them what they have told us that they need. So that's part of it. Is, you know, a really, really informed product development, product process. The second thing is, I think, our hiring. We have been able to be super intentional about hiring a mix of talent from like big tech, you know, like...

...big tech world, in combination with domain experts that have like lived and breathe the stuff, usually at in companies that are that are now considered competitors of ours, but that have done this for like three years. And then we throw in a mix of a lot of really young, fresh talent that just is innovative by nature, like doesn't have any baggage because they haven't necessarily been in this world very long, that just infudse all this like really fresh thinking. And so I think that the third part of it is like we say that we are a clean sheet of paper Type Company. So what's been really cool is that some of these they're now leadership at our company, but before joining Ridge Line they've told us that they used to have these like water cooler daydream chatter with each other about like you know what if we just like start over on this, and Ridge Line is giving them that opportunity and it is like it is a very strong gravitational pull for people who have lived in this industry for a long time and seeing sort of the faults and have dreamed about the opportunity to kind of rehambish in it and take a fresh approach. So it's compelling for talent and then it's also very compelling once we sort of explain this approach and what Ridge Line has been doing in the way we've gone after this, like the audience gets it, like our prospects have been burned by legacy technology and can feel that Reginas is doing something quite different. Like you know, we're kind of I think, I hope that like we're kind of passing the sniff test a little bit, because everyone can smell be as when it comes smarting right, like we're all conditioned to to not a cell, but I think and hope that Rigina is delivering them something that that feels compelling and different. Let me ask you a follow up question because, as a marketer who has worked for some of these bigger, older companies and now having this experience with these three areas that you just identified, is there one that's extremely refreshing to you specifically right now as a marker, that you just feel like, man, this is this, is nice to be in this space and being a startup culture or whatever. I think they're all refreshing, but probably probably the one that is going to be the most powerful for us, I think, in the long run, is that collaborative development process, right, so, like building this with your end user. Nothing can can add more value to a product than that, right, like we didn't create this in a vacuum and then say here, take this, you want this? We ask them and we said build this with us. Like share our vision? Do you share a vision? If you do, like, would you be willing to participate in what we really see is kind of like revolutions in their industry and rewriting that future together, and not everyone's going to be into that, right, like that's much more of an early a doctor mindset and mentality the practict the pragmatists are going to be like, hold on, need...

...more evidence. I'll be over here when you see how this turns out. But but there there is enough sort of like critical mass and critical interest in doing this that we have been able to build traction. So that's been very cool to say. You mentioned early adopters. I believe there's seventeen early adopters. Correct me if I'm wrong. Okay, but it's it's kind of too early for case studies or be like here's our showcase. Right. I imagine that makes this a bit challenging and people will resonate with that. How has that been to like identify those early adopters and then basically, what are you? What's the next stage from there? Yeah, yeah, it's right. I mean we don't have that gold standard. We are pretty far away from being able to do true value engineering and like land on a nice neat case study. Would love to be there. Will hopefully, you know, will reconnect in a year and we will have that, but in the meantime I think that we are just thinking of each customer as the potential for a very long term relationships. So, like with Ridgeline, this is the type. Again I mentioned that the legacy technology. A lot of cases these customers have been sitting with this technology for decades and when Ridgeline replaces that technology, we will be with them for decades. Is the hope in the goal. So this is not an impulse by we recognize that this is like a really long term and considered process us. So I think we approach it that way to like we see this as a partnership. It's going to last for a lot of years and you know, your audience knowsis you know this. Like you can't ask someone to trust you right like. You have to earn that trust and I think that we are fortunate because we can actually be a bit more patient about that process of earning trust. And big component of that is that we're privately funded, so we don't have, unlike, a lot of status. We don't have like investors who are breathing down our neck and asking us to deliver upsides immediately, like there's there's some freedom in that because, while we're pushing extremely hard, we aren't going to put out a product that isn't ready and we're not going to put something out that won't bring significant value to our customers, and so, like we feel that our reputation is staked on that and ultimate our customers reputation is take done that. So it's in our best interest to execute with excellence and it's an our best interest to earn their trust. So I think, like we call it taking along view at Ridge line, this this sort of like unique, like slow burn make sure the technology is just absolutely polished before kind of like putting our foot on the gas too hard and acquiring too many customers too early on or like just, you know, growing a little bit big for our breaches when we're not quite ready for that. So again we've been fortunate it to tap into some early doptors who just reck is how transformative this will be and like they're all in right,...

...like they see that we're taking a patient approach. Like a lot of times the contracts in this industry are years long. So that's a benefit to us too. is like they're willing to extend some of that patients back to us because because they you know, they may not need to RFP their current technology for a couple of years. Hey, everybody, Olivia here as a member of the sweet fish sales team, I wanted to take a second and share something that makes us insanely more efficient. Our team uses lead Iq. So for those of you who are in sales or sales ups, let me give you some context. You know how long gathering contact data can take so long, and with lead Iq, what once took us four hours to do now takes us just one. That is seventy five percent more efficient. We are so much quicker with outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns so much easier than before. I suggest you guys check it out as well. You can find them at lead iqcom. That's La d iqcom already. Let's jump back into the show. A lot of times the contracts of this industry are years long. So that's a benefit to us too. It's like they're willing to extend some of that patients back to us because because they you know, they may not need to URFP their current technology for a couple years. Okay, so we're these early adopters from previous relationship. Or what was the marketing strategy there, and how does that maybe change from these first seventeen to like the next wave that you're going to go after. Yes, great question. We'd think about that a lot our customer adoption curve. Actually, our entire company thinks about it, which is which is kind of Nice. We're coming about three hundred, but we were all given a copy of the Jeffrey Moore book called crossing the Chasm. No, no, if you know, audience has read this, but it's like classic, Classic Marketing Book, and he actually came and spoke, I should say remotely. He's put remotely to originline last year, and so the whole company, which is eighty five percent engineers and product development folks like got to hear this is sort of like icon of marketing. Explain to them that there is a gulf between the early adopter mindset and then the folks who are just by nature more visionary don't require that more traditional evidence, and then that second wave, which are the pragmatists, like they need proof, right. So, like, as a marketer, what do we do? So we're getting a little bit, I would say, creative. And what constitutes proof? Like we're pre value engineering. We don't have the case study, but what we do have is, you know, we have very proven track records from the people that are running our company. So these are not young kids read of school with a cool idea. These are people that have really like led different industries with technology before. So I think that's comforting. That's very helpful in your industry specifically as well. I think that's extremely important to note. In finance you need like financial services. Yeah,...

...yes, I agree. I agree, because they they're more conservaive by nature, right. So, like they want all, use the phrase, like they want adults in the room, right, like they want to know that the company has been is being run by people to experience. So there's that. We do have testimonials. We're actually using testimonial is anonymously right now with permission. Were using them an ount ofously, but they do. They're just very powerful. You can really feel the enthusiasm and excitement we are also, you know, we've won a couple of a words, which has been Nice. Linkedin recognized us as the top startup. So that's something that, you know, we obviously communicate as workers. And then, lastly, I think it's it gets the product right, like what we're building is very complex and very hard to do, and if it, if it wasn't hard, like we wouldn't be a threat to the incumbents. But we have like someone has decided to tackle this. Originally, it's tackling this. So when you show them a demo of the product, I think they're, you know, their jaws just dropped because they're like wow, you're really doing it, you're really taking on these like really just knotty, messy, complicated parts of financial services, like accounting. I mean you need to work in financial service to know that like an entire accounting system would be like a very hard to create from scratch and to join that with other functional areas so that all of us could be done on one platform. And I will give a slight plug because I think your audience will appreciate this and think maybe it's kind of funny. We've recently launched a new website. So just within like the last months we launch a webs s and as a marketer, you know that like optics matter, right. So my part of my early process was developing the the site. was like looking just doing an analysis of maybe twenty five like big tech, big industry, big enterprise side it's, as well as like big names in the in the tech and startup space, just to feel like what are these guys. Do you know? So? And I did this this analysis to be like how do you lay out your home page and like, w where are you putting? What's in your footer and what is your drop down now consist of? And so I started to recognize these patterns, in these commonalities that we I kind of created this model for our website based on that, because we're a new company. But I wanted to create the first impression, if you come to our website, like look, the websites not closing in the sale right. These are very long term, considered purchase both the what the website can do is create that surface, subliminal first impression of like okay, this isn't a flash in the PAN, like it's a startup, but these people are serious about it, and it was important to me to create a website for ridgeline that reflects where we want to be, the kind of reflects our aspirations of sort of the future state of our company, even if maybe the current state is like if it would maybe feel like a little premature to put us in the same categories of those companies right now. HMM, I wonder. How do you balance at how do you balance where you are with because as a marketing is partially like you're pulling people into a future,...

...but you're also I mean, they're going to get behind the marketing and they're going to get to just like where you guys are right now. Like that's that's always the the push of Bull. How do you think about that? Where you are now versus where you want to be? Does that make sense? It does. I think we're so fortunate because we have leadership that has been there, like whenever things start to feel a little bit hairy, like a little bit like that, that's just feels so challenging and potentially insurmountable. And this is just like the biggest, hardest thing. It's really comforting for US internally to have leadership that can say look, we've been there, right, like this is part of it. Like going from zero to one is the biggest thing in software right. So, like once you've gone from zero to one, going from one to four, going from four to twenty, it's just it's not as hard. You've kind of like started rolling down hill at that point. So I think there's that sort of you know, I keep saying comfort, but there is that sort of element of like okay, there's we are surrounded by people who have been through this before and are here to like be on the other side saying it's okay, we're going to get there, and I think, I think an aspect of that extends to how we communicate with our customers. To again, I said, like one of you know, one of our strategic legs here is is talking about our leadership and our domain expertise, and I think for the early adopters that's something they gravitate towards too. Is like, okay, you guys have done this before. Like you, you're not going to be caught off guard, there's not going to be as many surprises and you will you will like navigate through those in a way that unsuccessfully. HMM, okay. So we move from the seventeen or so that you guys are at right now to moving forward. It's a hyper targeted approach. Basically two hundred accounts we're going to we know who we want to go after. Essentially. What is that type of personalization look like? Because so, I mean there's going to be listeners that are in an account based marketing approach, but this is this is hyper targeted. So so talk to me a little bit about what that looks like in the personalization. They're sure. Yeah, I mean you know we're talking in like low double digits right now as far as customers and that that will change like that will change by factors of ten, factors of a hundred within the next couple of years. But right now I think we want to set ourselves in our early customers, up for success and so we have created kind of a methodology using publicly available data to say this is what our target firm looks like like. We have these profiles that are very tightly defined on for our industry, at things like assets under management, at things like number accounts. They have a their firm. But but we we feel confident that if we're able to engage them in a conversation, that we can say, like the product we have right now is ready for you. The product we've built right now was built for you by people that do the exact thing that you do and that...

...look quite a bit like you. So you know, that might be an interesting principally for your audience, just to think sort of about like solving don't trying to be everything to everyone, but like be comfortable with embracing a very small target audience and like precisely attuned to their needs and build success there before trying more of like a mass marker blanket approach. And you ask about personization, so that's something that you know right now. Like, yes, we are dialing up our brand profile in general and we want we want the industry to be aware of her richliness. But at the same time we're not quite ready for our door to be beaten down by perspective firms because we may not have a product that's ready for them quite yet. We will get there, but we want to ensure that it's like a great experience for them. So we don't want them to necessarily queue up with US and have to wait for years. Like we want to talk to the frips that are that are kind of ready for us and where as versa. So but when we do find a firm that feels like it's in, that sweets but we really like move them. We joke internally that we just get sort of like very creepy with these firms. It's because of the amount of research that we do. So we get around a table, like our go to market team. Are Marketing teams only three people, but our go to market team will join us in these brain storms and we just we do as much research and then just throw ideas out about like thoughtful and clever ways that we can make a connection. I mean I think it's a little bit akin to like if you met someone at a hocktail party and you're trying to find that common ground with them, to just be relatable and to to like build something that you can potentially start relationship with. Like that's how that's how we think about how our approach it. Or early coust give me an example. Okay, yes, so this one's really notorious in our company. So we are headquartered in like Tahoe. If your listeners have have had the opportunity to be there, hopefully they know it's like a it's just an esthetic gem in this country, like it's an instagram gold mine, like you can't take a bad picture. So we live in this world of like very tall pine trees and mountains and big boulders in the Blue Lake and but we happen to have the world's largest pine cones. Their native to this area, and I mean I shouldn't say large, stay long. So basically, like from your elbow to your fingertips. That is a good approximation of the size of the part. That's crazy, and so we so we actually package some up and send them to firms that we were really interested in connected with and, fun fact, it has worked for us. So in our early coheart of customers, we have a customer who we send a pipe code to and they're now one of our customers and they're signing...

...up for the surgery right then we talked about earlier. So obviously it's become like a huge inside joke with them. But it is just kind of funny that as a marketer, like if you, if you just sort of like break the mold and step back and think about like, I'm just a human talking to another human, like what would interest them? What would be fun, what would be suppose? What would surprise into like them, you really like break into this new creative space. It's like surprised, delight and sometimes like what the heck? We call that the the kind of what the heck, maybe not as nice terms but as vice language, but we call that that, you know, a little bit of a head scratcher. It's some times work to you mentioned. You guys have three marketers right now. Yes, okay. So with a team like that, like how, when you're thinking of I mean because personalization takes time, you're mentioning these meetings. Let's just go practical for a second, like how are you actually executing on this, this strategy? Like alotting time when there's Yeh, you hands on the team? Yeah, super small team. Actually, there's only three of us. One of them just joined and then myself and the other marketer. We've been on the team for just a year. So this is like kind of a new restion of her bridge line in general to have a dedicated marketing presence. But I think what's great is that, I've mentioned earlier, we have a larger go to market team that's inclusive of business swellman and corporate strategy, and one of the things I really have appreciate about Regina is everyone just so in it, and by that I mean they share the sense of accountability and the imperative that we're doing it right at each touch point, that like no one is voting in it, like everyone is executing with excellence along the way. So it is in their best interest to to partner with marketing to make sure that our ideas are on target to make sure that the work that we're doing, if it eventually translates to them in sales, like, they'll be proud to sort of like represent the work that we've done. So we work very collaboratively in that regard. But, you know, aside from that, we we've set up processes around us to write because, like any time you're launching into something like that, it's going to feel a little bit intimidated if you haven't sort of like set up, you know, if you have an infuse some discipline in there too. So we do have. You know, we've weekly meetings and we have lots of spreadsheets that help keep us honest all the stuff. But we're making it work. I love following the current back I love hearing about what you guys are thinking on this, trying on this. I want to end hyper practical here for our listeners to take this and be able to run with it. So let's go first. What are some of the results that you've seen from this approach versus? Maybe you know there's going to be listeners that are more into the content marketing side, or you know there's different approaches. What are some of the results you've seen? Sure, well, I think it's might be interesting to mention that I actually in my last role I did content marketing, right like that was my that was...

...my job like five years. So it's funny to now be at regine where in some ways I've really returned to these this very like fundamental place of thinking. Like a marketer, all I think about all day long is connect with our target, which, if you're leading a market organization, that should be what you're doing all day. But we all know that that is not what True Day looks like. So easy aside tracked, yeah, so easy in your day gets filled up with all the other stuff. So I think from a result standpoint, part of it is just is trusting the people that you work with. So our founder, deaped field, really beliefs in like hiring the right people and getting out of their way. And there is a it's really imputed or culture. There's this, there's an openness to try new things, and I think sometimes that's a good reminder to just be like look, it's okay to try new things and it may not work out, because when you're at a start up everything is kind of new, like yes, you've maybe done it in a former role, but like you're there's a there's a forgiveness, I think, for a try and stuff and maybe not knowing exactly how it's going to work out. Yeah, and I think something else from from like a result standpoint, is if you're coming from a place of like real authenticity and honesty, it's going to work out well for you in general. I think that's maybe a life principle too. For sure, like we, you know I mentioned earlier, like we see this as an opportunity build relationships with these really forms and we know this is a long term proposition for them. So what we're trying to do right now is not just build, not just earn their loyalty, but we want to do the best thing that you could possibly do as a worker or which is create evangelist. Like we want to turn this early subset of influencers in their industry into evangelist for original to talk about how great of an experience are having with us. And that may be the case even before they are operating off of our technology. So you can sort of in gender, that sense of trust, in that sense of just sort of like competence in the industry, even before you're like you're offering your technology to the entire industry. So I think that's where we're seeing positive results, is just just being really genuine and thinking of these says as relationships. You mentioned your background and content marketing. I wonder if you could go back to that version of yourself, Christine, like is there a piece of advice that you would would give to those that are, you know, in that space or the all that the younger version of you? Right? Yes, well, younger Christine. So well, yes, I think there's some. There's a concept that we talked about it rich one called radical candor, and what that is is like this sort of respectful honesty about what is, what is still serving us, what is continuing to serve us, what is maybe not serving us as well anymore, and where do we need to focus to be successful? And if you are out of alignment with what the...

...core business needs are, then I think that's a really like healthy principle that I would have liked to have known maybe earlier in my career. Is like, is what I'm doing a box check or is what I'm doing truly driving? This is value, because just day to day it's going to be more satisfying, meaningful to you to know that the efforts that you're making are contributing to sort of the greater good and you don't have to like twist yourself into nuts to justify, like, well, I'm doing this which like kind of contributes towards this, that there's KPI hear which latters up kind of to this. HMM, if it feels a little bit closer and more autheptic to the mission of your company, then I think you're going to drive more satisfaction out of your efforts. Last question for you before we close it out. But if someone is listening to this whole conversation and they're going to walk away with an action item from Christine, what do you want that action item to be? What should we be focused on as as we leave this episode? Okay, so maybe two things, I feel allow me two things. I think one is just a reminder that being authentic and genuine and understanding that you're just a person talking to another person at the end of the day and that, like, if it doesn't, if what you're if your tactic, is not going to work on you, then like it's probably not going to work on anyone else right. So I think that's that's healthy because we sort of like get ourselves into the space where we're talking about like, oh well, I'm just gonna I'm going to change the color on the span or ad or whatever. That'll that'll change you know, that'll like change performance dramatically, and sometimes it's healthy just to step back and and see like, okay, you know, a marketers, we really have an advantage, right, like we have performance data. So there's no way that any of us should get complacent and what we're doing. We should always be just hypercritical and vigilant about how we're spending in our days and whether it's working, because if you're not doing that, then you're settling for mediocrity and you are probably spending time on things that are not serving you any longer. And I also just I just want to sort of encourage people that, like if you're a marketer. Yet in my opinion we are a very sort of clever and strategic group, and so, you know, we do sort of deserve a seat at the table in an organization, because I like to think that if you put a marketer up against just about any business challenge, we're going to think of may be interesting and creative and unexpected ways to approach it. So, you know, give yourself a little bit, a little bit of credit, for you're not just a marketer, you're like a business strategist and you should really think about your role as such. HMM, it's great. I love this conversation. Thank you for spending time and given away some of your wisdom and what you guys are learning at rigeline right now. For those that want to connect with you and the company, what's the best way to go about that? Yeah, so...

...would welcome connections. Look me up on Linkedin at Christine Switzer, and you know, I mentioned we recently launched a new website, so check out ridgeline appscom. With love to know what your listeners think about that. I kind of divulge my secrets about how we got to that place. So welcome feedback. They're great. Well, thank you so much for spending time on be tob growth and for our listeners. If you have yet to subscribe to the PODCAST, make sure you do that on whatever platform you're on right now. You can connect with me on Linkedin as well, having conversations about marketing, business in life over there all the time, and we love these conversations because hopefully it's helping fuel your growth and innovation. Ultimately, that's why we're here as a show. That's why Christine and I showed up today and took the time to record this and so, hey, keep doing work that matters and we'll be back real soon with another episode. Thanks, Christine. Thank you, Benjay. That was a pleasure.

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