How to Make the Case for a Podcast to Leadership

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Join us on today's episode as we dive into our very first B2B Podcasting Q&A. 

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Yeah, All right, Welcome everyone. This is our first of what we're going to start doing a weekly BtB podcasting Q and a inspired by chris walker state of demand jin. We've got some questions that have come in from that email that I sent this morning and so we'll just start diving in and answering some of those Logan. Do you want to kick it off while I'm letting more people in the waiting room? But since we only have 30 minutes, I want to go ahead and jump in. Do you want to kick it off with the first question and then uh, and then we can, we can get from there. Yeah, absolutely. So thanks everybody that's already hopped on. And just for some context, if you have a follow up question or you have a question, you weren't able to submit before this call, James dan and myself will be keeping an eye on the chat so you feel free to pop those in and then we'll be kind of looking through those prioritizing. We might call on you to hey, if you want to add some context to this question or just read the question out. This first one that we had was, how can I make the case to leadership at my company that a podcast is going to be successful and how should we, how should we gauge success dan. Recorded a video on this that has been super helpful recently. I think that there are, there are two ways that I'm consistently advising our customers on this front. One that your podcast is a double edged sword. Uh, it is not just about the reach, but because a podcast is generally an interview based format, you need guests. And if a good portion of those guests or people who fit your buyer persona, they're not just the people that your buyers want to hear from. You can build relationships with those guests that map to revenue. So think you're a B. M. Play mixed with your content place. So keeping an eye on how many guests relationships are turning into revenue. Either from those folks buying from you or those folks referring their friends or those folks sharing that content and then one of their peers then then coming inbound as well as the reach. Now on the reach side, we don't have a ton of information with podcasting, right? You don't get the email addresses, You don't get the granular information that you do with, say a webinar or something like that because it is undated, top of funnel content. But one thing I've been encouraging a lot of the marketing leaders we work with to share with their executive teams is on average, people tend to listen to most of every podcast episode that they listen to. And granular early. If you have a podcast You can go into your analytics and apple and look at what is the play through rate and apple will actually total it up. So you're getting 200 downloads of an episode and your average play through rate is 80 and the episode length is about 30 minutes. All of a sudden comparing that total time consumed, which you get into hours and hours very quickly with that math and won't try and do any math live but comparing that to the time spent with your content in other channels. So not just impressions but total consumption that can put the podcast Really stack it up against your other channels and your other efforts to really compare apples to apples versus yeah 5000 views of this tweet and 200 downloads of this podcast episode. The smaller number might actually be having a bigger impact with that. I'll turn it over to Dan. Anything you would add to that man. Only in tracking attribution, you can usually find the podcast can be influential when you're actually asking customers, Oh, how did you find us? And what was this journey like for you? Like if you're asking customers when they first sign on with you, what was their journey like? That's where you can start to look for the podcast and how I prove the podcast is helpful and relevant. It's not usually coming up on first touch attribution reports, right? Hubspot isn't can't see it. Uh if there is anything like hubspot can't see it at all. Unless you have maybe like a some kind of special you are all you're...

...sending podcast listeners too. So where it does come up is when you actually talk to them and actually kind of breaking down their journeys and that's where I like to prove that the podcast is a major part of that journey only because consumption of podcast is so deep. Like Logan said, if you compare apples to apples, blog to podcast, 30 minutes consumed on a podcast is a lot different than three minutes read on a blog post, it's 10 x. The amount of consumption which is much deeper. And when I'm thinking about the success of my content marketing, I'm usually looking at consumption metrics like that. So I don't look, I try to compare it per minutes consumed when I'm trying to compare it to like linkedin or blogs. When I'm trying to compare apples to apples with other content marketing channels, Shannon just dropped a comment here in the chat. She said if you put podcast episodes on landing pages, you can use engagement with the content as well. I don't want to put you on the spot, Shannon, but if you want to elaborate there, but I know we talked about this in our growth group, I think it was earlier this week or late last week. Do you want to expand on that at all? Yeah. Hi everybody, there's a lot of people here. Good job guys. Yeah. So we've actually cut down our publishing cadence and actually spent more time on really high value episodes that are targeted at our landing spots for our business. And what we've been able to do is when we have a great expert that really aligns very well to a persona or to a landing spot, we find a place on one of our key pillar pages to place that episode, usually a video link. So either embed of Wisteria, I think is what we're using and were able to track engagement with that content. So whether if it's produced significantly more engagement than the page historically getting, but we're using it as definitely like our demand team is using a lot more than I ever originally anticipated when we launched the podcast. So yeah, it's been really cool and super repurpose able. I know someone said that to so small snippets, we can put that in the carousel were starting to think of it as like the more time we spend on each episode, thinking of it as more like pillar content unless like blog content and it's proven pretty successful. That's for awesome, Shannon, thanks for sharing that. Our next question we got from Peter Murphy Lewis, I think I saw him jump on earlier actually, um but he emailed this in before we started one of his questions and we get this a lot. He's the best practices for sharing and distributing like private facebook groups, niche communities, Harrow, we've created a lot of content around this and dan is actually our director of audience growth so he lives and breathes this stuff, dan. Do you want to take the first stab at the answer to this one? Yeah, I mean in A B two B play, like Lincoln becomes the best discovery platform for podcasting. I can make a case for other social networks. Probably twitter would be my next favorite. But if you're doing B two B Lincoln's where it's at, like Lincoln as if you've been listening to Gary V, like he's been talking about how linkedin is a lot, like how facebook used to be back in 2012, right? There's just an unfair advantage in just the organic content. How far it can go? So sharing and splintering your podcast content on the linked in and putting the link specifically in the comments and not in the post itself is probably the single best way to get traction for a b two B podcast right now. Beyond that, I almost like to think of having like a main Discovery channel, like linkedin and then having all my secondary ones, which I kind of just automate, unless I'm just gonna put a lot of effort into it, I'd probably put it in your, like, your, your hoot suite, your hubspot social, your buffers and just kind of like buff them all out. Normally those are channels are not putting a lot of effort into, but I'm essentially syndicating there and that's how I treat most other social channels. Unless I wanted to put the effort into going all in which for us is linked in maybe someday, twitter. Michael Hartmann here had a question of audio only or video as you're breaking up your podcast into those micro pieces of content and this is something rob common on our team and a few other team members on our internal slack. We're asking about this because we had a similar customer question. We see a lot of, a lot of things out there with what we call those audio grams. Right? You go to click on, it looks like a video...

...and it might have a moving wave form or it might have subtitles come up and my take on that is it's better than nothing. If you're doing that, you're posting something to drive people back to your podcast is definitely better than nothing. So I won't say you just don't do that. Complete waste of time. But if you can develop a process for creating micro video clips where the guest or the host face is nice and large. I saw SAm gave a thumbs up to video over audio here. Sam Moss, if you look at his linkedin feed, I see his videos in my feet very consistently. Those micro video clips just consistently perform better than audio only. And so some people might say, well, Logan you guys are a podcast agency. You're saying audio only isn't isn't the best, shouldn't you? You know, just always be saying that. But it's about the context, right? When you're scrolling linked in or instagram for that matter, you're looking for something to actively engage with. And part of the reason why audio only is powerful is in those times where you're looking to passively consume walking the dog doing the dishes where you're listening to audio only. And so video fits that context in that mode of consumption that your potential buyers are in when they're on social and so that's part of the reason. Plus just seeing from a lot of our customers that say micro video clips, whether we're producing them or they're doing them themselves are one of the top performing social media assets, not just out of their podcast content, but across all of their social content. So that's why we're big proponents of recording audio and video at the same time and then using them strategically when you're going to go audio only and when you're going, yeah, riverside being a great platform, we're obviously doing this on zoom, but riverside is a great platform that lets you capture higher quality video. So those videos end up looking better. The others were also building, we're in the midst of building a product right now that does automatic clipping for micro videos so you can, you'll be able to, it should launch in mid May. I was just talking to the development team right before we jumped on here, but we're so passionate about this, We're building an entire tool that allows you to upload your video podcast interview and then if it's a 30 minute interview, it's going to spit out, hey here, eight potential clips that you could use. And so as we're getting closer and closer to it will obviously be talking about that more. But super passionate about video Ryan had a Ryan. Lanigan had a great question. He said, I assume ranking in Apple charts helps with new listeners as well as linkedin content snippets. What does Apple look at when they're deciding who to put into the top 10 download subs question mark. So I have found right, and we don't have any, unfortunately we don't have any Inside Insider knowledge at Apple. I wish we had a relationship there. So if anybody on this call knows somebody at Apple that they can connect us to, I would love to connect with them. But from what I've heard and what I've just heard, other people talk about it, the quality of your cover art. So Apple does care about the quality of your cover art. They obviously care about the number of downloads that your show is getting. And I've heard that they also care a lot about how many subscribers your show has. So one of the things that we do whenever we're first launching shows is we try to optimize around getting ratings on the show. And we obviously make sure that the cover art is good because we're producing it for them. So we have a design team that cares deeply about that. So Cover Arts Good. And when we are equipping our customers with the language, the emails to use internally slack messages to use internally to get your entire team to leave a rating of the show. We also have them get everybody to subscribe to the show as well. So when you're asking for ratings of getting those early ratings, make sure folks are subscribing to the podcast as well. So yeah, so ratings are a big one. I think reviews. I hear a lot of people talking about reviews, but I think ratings, I don't know this for sure. Again, I wish we had a connection at Apple that could verify this. But because Apple only displays the number of ratings, it makes me...

...think that ratings matter more to them than reviews, which is great for creators because reviews are a heck of a lot harder to get than just getting somebody to tap the number of stars they think the show deserves. That language that I just said actually is really good language to use whenever you're asking for these ratings. And so I would say like, hey, we just launched this new show, would love for you to check it out and ratings are hugely helpful. Just have the number of stars that you think the show deserves and that would really help us out a lot that way. You're not telling people like, you know, leave us five star reviews. But obviously I would imagine everybody that you're reaching out to about the show, there's probably going to want to give you a five star rating. So anything I missed there, dan Logan, I would just say that there's really three different ways you're gonna ranked an apple. It's in the new and noteworthy, the category charts and in the search engine. Like if people are searching for the key words that you want to get found for the easiest one is the search engine and that you can just launch out the gate with, if you have just pretty good cover art, which increases the click through rate if you're coming up fast and you just sneak the keywords into the title, which is like old school S. E. O. And just get a bunch of people to rate it really quickly. Like you're gonna play most niches. It's the competition just isn't that hard. If you just start publishing in a new niche, your Garba gonna rank within the top one or three really quickly. The categories are difficult but I'm, I swear it's gonna be more based on downloads than anything else. That's what I think James of course all the other things matter. But the hardest one is just getting a brawl like a ton of downloads, new and noteworthy. Gosh, I wish I knew. I'm still figuring that out. There's lots of, there's lots of blog posts that shade these seven steps and I've tried all those steps multiple times. Many customers. I'm like, nah, I don't know. I've heard of people saying they know, but they also have relationships with Apple and Apple, like literally won't talk to me. They're like so tight lipped. But I'm like, I don't, I don't think I hear a lot of new podcasters talking about trying to get into new and noteworthy. I personally never look at new and noteworthy myself. So as a, as a podcast consumer, that's not how I find shows. Quite honestly. I don't find new shows by searching categories either. I could be an anomaly there. but I would be curious like if you have a thought here and you like how you find shows, um just drop it in the comments would be really interesting for us to know like when you're in Apple podcast or Spotify, how are you finding shows or you, are you typing in a keyword of a type of show you're looking for? Are you searching categories? Are you searching No. And new and noteworthy that way. I can I can answer this question next time with more data than just my own personal preference of how I consume. But going back to ranking for a keyword. So many people want to name, they want to get cute and fancy whenever they name their show and they want to name it after one of their core values or they want to name it after something that, that the outside world has no idea what the show is actually about. And we've just we we try to name our show is like very on the nose like very direct B2B growth. And the reason our show has done so well is we rank for the keywords B two b. And so our show name is GDP growth colon, your daily B two B marketing podcast. So we rank for B two B marketing and we also rank for the term B two B. And I would say like try to work your the keyword that you want to rank for in podcast platforms into the name of your show. Uh there was a season where Apple was shutting shows down that we're that we're doing keyword stuffing in the title of their show. So you got to be careful not to just keyword stuff. Don't put your show name colon, keyword line, keyword line keyword. But if you can organically work it in to the name of your show in like a tagline for the show. I found that that's that's really helpful. One of my friends shows he ranks for the term senior living and his show has bridged the gap colon the senior living podcast. And so hopefully that's uh that's helpful. Uh because I think podcast S Ceo is is definitely a...

...distribution tactic that I don't hear. A lot of people talking about. Hi dan Sanchez here with a quick break from this episode, sponsor Vidyard. If you haven't started using personal video yet to enhance your marketing campaigns, your missing out having the ability to quickly capture video and record my computer screen or both helps me not only create marketing assets faster, it makes them way more personable. I use personal videos and social media email blast landing pages and even on our website, Vidyard makes it easy to record host in bed and share videos to more deeply engaged with your ideal buyers prospects have told me repeatedly that they are blown away every time they get one for me. So sign up for Vidyard free today by going to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth. And just like you guys, the team at Vidyard can't keep up with all these promo codes on podcast, so they are making signing up as easy as possible. So no promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth to start using Vidyard completely free and as a bonus, get their 2021 B two B video trans guide. Are you about to say something? Yeah, I just wanted to call out what you said there because we didn't always, our show has been B two B growth for from day one, right. And we've changed the cover art. We refresh that last year. The full name of the show with the subtitle is B two B growth, your daily B two B marketing podcast. Now we didn't always have that subtitle in there and that's something that you could, you can change, you can iterate on overtime. But we noticed that once we added that subtitle um, in our host platform, we started to show up, I know if you search B two B marketing podcast on google, we will be right in one of those first slots in the podcast Carousel. So both Apple Search as well as Google search, Google starting to surface podcast. Much like they did video in the, in the early days before the Youtube acquisition. You know, we used to have to go to Youtube to find a video. Now. If google says, oh, I think that James is looking for a video, you're going to get that little carousel video options right, podcasting is doing the same thing. And so even if you already have an existing show and you're like, I don't want to rename my show, but it doesn't really do many search favors. Experiment with the subtitle of the show because that can help you in this area. Awesome. I see a question from Mirage. He says, for for the guests, is a regular laptop good enough for recording on zoom or do they need to buy specialized audio equipment looking you, you jumped in and answered that. But I just want to make sure that we have this for anybody that didn't see the comments and for anybody listening to this after. Yeah. For all of the shows that we produce for our customers, we provide a pretty straightforward equipment set up. You can see it on camera with, with James there, it's a $100 U. S. B. Mic from Audio Technica and some equipment to attach it to your desk. And we get this question. A lot of like do the guests need need something? A lot of the later model MAC books have phenomenal microphones to where it's really not so much of an issue as long as they're not in an echoey bathroom. And there was also a question about like video, just make sure they don't have a light directly behind them and if they do turn it off, if there's a window closed, the blinds or re angle away from it, don't have a dog in the room, like you guys can probably hear mine barking right now. So, and I think also since Covid, we've all been a little bit more accepting of recording in different environments. You have that already to your advantage, if we've seen the tonight show from jimmy Fallon's living room, your podcast is probably going to be okay and just look to make it incrementally better as opposed to I have to have $10,000 worth of equipment as the host and every guest, I need to ship them a microphone and ship it back, start somewhere and then make little...

...incremental improvements. Maybe you start shipping them a $30 U. S. B. Mic or you work into your process. I've seen Douglas Burdette do this with the marketing book podcast. He has a video with a link to an inexpensive but high quality headset on amazon's like, hey, if you don't have a podcast mike, go by this and you'll use it, you know, outside of just being a guest on the podcast. So those are some things you can do to address it, but I wouldn't make it everything or let it stop you. I mean, James mentioned at the top of this show demands in live from chris walker and the guys at, at the team at refined labs. I've heard episodes of their show that are not the best audio quality, but the content carries the day and it's been wildly popular, both live and on demand. So it's not just us that are saying that .2 other examples got a question from Michael, just more practical about how to get on the list for these calls. Um, he said already getting value today, how can I get my co hosts or others an invitation to the weekly meetings, Michael, If you'll just shoot me an email James at Sweet Fish Media dot com or have them email me and just say, Hey, I'd love to be added. I'm doing it kind of ghetto right now. I'm just doing a google calendar invite. I've tried to find tools that where you can set up a landing page and I just haven't found anything that that works real well. So just have them shoot me an email James at Swedish Media dot com and I'll add them to the recurring calendar invite. There's another question to hear from, from Peter, how to use your podcast and cold email outreach to talk to prospects or get their attention to your brand. This is obviously, this seems very aligned with what I wrote the book about content based networking, but I think Peter you're actually on here. Can you elaborate on that question a bit if you're, if you're still here? Yeah, mainly that I've been doing a lot of cold outbound and started a podcast three months ago and I've found the open rates, click rates are good. Haven't got anyone to bite on a call to action. So just wondering what other ways people are using um their podcast to get in the face of potential prospects. The best thing that's worked for me is asking for people for 10 minutes of feedback. The amount of people have replied and said they'd get on the phone with me has been uh surprising. The other thing is just lining up my copy with their job role. So say, hey, I interviewed this S. E. O. Or this Ceo and then send it to a ceo. So they let them know I'm talking to someone at the same level. And so Peter, are you asking those prospects, are you asking them to be a guest on your show or you're just trying to open up a sales conversation with using content from your show as kind of a lead in mostly just a lead in and brand awareness because a lot of times they might not be good on the podcast. So I'm not using 100% just for finding candidates, rather getting them to pay attention to me as authority and credibility and credible source um, and then start a conversation. So eventually I have like a 13 email sequence and, and I asked questions about every four emails and different things along the lines of you know, what are you doing to solve this problem or what's your biggest issue? Which podcast would you want to listen to? And then they tell me and I know what their pain point is, Logan. Do you have any thoughts there? I would encourage you to, to flip that a bit Peter and asked some of those prospects. I love to feature ceos just like you talking about their challenges and the solutions they're coming up with. Would you be interested in being my guest? Because then it's, it's about value for them and not value and you helping solve their problem, which means a business transaction and your product or service but value to them. And oh, Peter wants to hear what I have to say. Not to qualify me but to share what I have to say with his audience. And so I think a lot of times and that's this James asked the same question I had. There's two ways you can do this, send them the podcast content to generate a conversation. But if you invite them to be a guest on the podcast, even if you...

...haven't identified them as a great speaker, if they fit your buyer persona, they likely have things to say that your other buyers will care about you. Just might not know what that is. And that's where some frameworks in uncovering what their point of view or their experiences that we've armed a lot of our customers with comes into play where you can ask repeatable questions like Peter, what's a commonly held belief about being a ceo in the manufacturing space? Totally make it up. I don't know what what industry you sell to. What's a commonly held belief about insert title and industry that you passionately disagree with boom, no matter who it is, what industry we have the potential to go deep on a topic that's going to create good content. So I would say don't step over the opportunity to play to their ego and to deliver value in a different way, saying, hey, I've interviewed other great guests, but don't go listen to them. I wanna, I wanna feature you and you'll get more yeses than than you think. Why do you say peter? Why do you say that there are some people that you're reaching out to that wouldn't necessarily be a good guest for the show. Is it because of the premise of your existing show? I don't think I think his advice about asking some more template id structured questions might help it, but about a 30 of the people that I talked to just aren't up to the level of what I want in terms of quality. Uh they either just go on too long. Uh don't say anything interesting, not willing to be vulnerable to use a lot of vague language or just kind of a lot of like self help book talk. Yeah. And and one way that you could vet that peter and it gives you an extra relational touch point is to do a pre interview I really like, especially if you're not talking to the chris walker's of the world folks that are on podcasts all the time, but if you're just talking to practitioners, so for us, like on GDP growth, we're talking to VPs of marketing and a lot of BtB SaAS companies and more and more, they're being asked to be on more shows. But in the early days none of them were being asked to be on podcasts. And so by doing a pre interview, asking some what we call P. O. V. Discovery questions Logan just shared one. What's a commonly held belief about B two B marketing that you passionately disagree with or what's something that everybody be marketers should start doing or stop doing, identify a P. O. B. In that in that pre interview. And then during the actual interview, if you like what they said in the pre interview, you can elaborate on that and you can use that preinterview is kind of a no pressure way to and and don't. And timmy on our team, he's a content strategist on our team. He like you mentioning, they're not willing to get vulnerable enough, give them that feedback, tell them like in the pre interview, like, hey, you know, we really want a more vulnerable vibe on this show, um would you be willing to press more into that answer? And because you're not recording in that preinterview, they feel a lot more comfortable. I just found that folks that are not accustomed to being on a lot of shows actually really enjoy being on a pre interview. It makes them feel a lot less in their head and, and they get to know you a little bit more as well. It's awesome. Thanks for asking that peter. I know we've got one more minute here and I've actually got a call at the top at the top of the hour so we'll have to shut it down. Unfortunately. Is there any any other questions on this dock or any questions in the chat here that we want to close this out with Logan or dan that you saw? Saw C. J asked C. J. Crew's asked a question about Lincoln live. Check if you're not following Sandra battery at terminus, check out his feet. He's using linkedin live and we're repurposing a lot of that content for their podcast to flip my funnel podcast. So just quickly, if you're looking for kind of someone who is kind of out ahead of that, we haven't done linkedin live and all here at sweet fish, but that's one of our customers that is, so I would, I would check him out, yep. And that is the correct spelling. V A J R E is his last name. Sandra badger. If you type in san Graham terminus, you should be able to find him. All right,...

...we are right at the top of the hour. You also thank you so much for being here. We're gonna record this will probably see an email for me tomorrow whenever we get this live on Youtube. So we'll send it out to everybody. So there are folks from your team that want to uh, that you want to share this with, be on the lookout for that link in the next couple days and then if anybody wants to, wants to join in, feel free to just have them email me James at Swedish media dot com and I will get them added to the calendar invite for these calls. See you all next week. Mhm. At Sweet Fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the internet for every job function and industry on the planet for the B two B marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8. Just shoot me. Their name may be a link to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.

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