B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1666 · 1 month ago

How to Find Fulfilling Work with Emily Melious

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to Emily Melious, Fulfillment Coach andCEO of Launch Consulting

Fulfilling work can seem elusive. How do we even measure it? Today Emily gives us three key areas she believes lead to fulfillment. This conversation goes beyond tactics and tips we typically discuss on the podcast and drives at the heart of our work as marketing teams.

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Welcome into be to be growth. Today I am joined by Emily mealyus. She is a fulfillment coach and CEO of launch consulting. Emily, thank you for stopping by be to be growth. Thank you so much for having me. I am really excited for this conversation. Yeah, it's going to be great. So let's jump in right here, because when we were talking offline, you painted a picture for me that I found very one insightful, because I know nothing about digging through a mountain. Let's let's start right there. So you don't really know about digging through mountains or hills either, because you're not a tunnel builder, right. Yeah, we have desk jobs. Yeah, but I was doing I got myself a little history lesson and through that, as I'm sure you're going to share, I found that it had actually has a whole lot to do with fulfillment in the workplace. Right. So the picture that you painted for me is, and here's what I would have thought. If we're digging through a mount we're digging through a hill to, let's say, we need a tunnel through it. We're just going to have a team on one side, we're just gonna go all the way through and then the tunnels done. But in reality, how they do it? Got A team on each side, they start digging through in the actually meet in the middle. And so when it comes to today's conversation we're going to talk about is fulfillment in the workplace, and you see it as really that picture right. Two Sides. One side is the business, one side is us as individuals, and if we want fulfilling work it's going to take both teams kind of meeting in the middle. Is that? Is that right? A hundred percent exactly. HMM. So what I'd like to do, if you're cool with us, let's start on the individual side and then we'll go over to the business side and we'll talk about how they collide in the middle at the end of our conversation today. So that sound good? That sounds great. Let's do it. Yeah, and honestly, most people believe that the buck stops with them anyway. So it's great that we're talking about the individual first, because research overwhelmingly tells us, and actually that part surprised me a little bit, but people believe that at the end of the day, they're fulfillment at work and then in life. is their responsibility. And yes, I believe that the companies have a responsibility there too, but it's got to start with us, so might as well start there in the conversation as well. Okay, so I think we should set the parameters right here up top, because when we say a word like fulfillment or fulfilling work, all sorts of different images come to mind. So what are you talking about when you say fulfillment and fulfilling work? Awesome question, because you're still right. So many people actually come to me and say, I just want to be more fulfilled, I just want more fulfillment. We all have feelings around that word. We've all probably use that word. It sounds good, but they're in life...

...the rub right like how do we pin it down? And that's why I think it eludes us so many times, is it's something we want, but how do you create something in your life that you can't even quantify or define? So I am happy to share that in my fifteen years of coaching and consulting and working with thousands of people at all ages and stages of their life and career, I've identified the fulfillment formula and it's as simple and hard as these three things. So fulfillment equals alignment of your unique skills, passions and talents. And another way to think about those three things are your what, your why and your how, and I'm sure we're going to break those down a bit more in our conversation. But a lack of fulfillment comes when we have a misalignment in one or more of those three things. And I said that it's as simple and hard as that, because we know that simple is not always easy. And if finding alignment in those three things was easy, everybody would be fulfilled at work. And I'm sure we're all familiar with the stats or have our own experiences where that is not the case. So the good news is it's simple. The tough news is this can be hard. But in today's conversation we're going to talk about proven, simple, easy to follow strategies where you can and create more fulfillment predictably consistently for yourself and then those around you. Yeah, isn't a stat like I think it's like two thirds or something of the workforces disengaged at work, actively disengaged. Yeah, and that stat comes from Gallop. It's pretty dismal. I don't know that covid made it worse so much. It just sobered us all up right, you know, it's covid really made us all take stock of our lives and the way that I perceived the great resignation is not actually that everybody just quit their jobs. They just quit the unfulfilling jobs. HMM, and I think that's an exciting movement. But yeah, I mean the stats were ugly. Work is not fulfilling for a whole lot of people. But what's encouraging to me and also challenging, I think, in a healthy but tough way, to companies is that people aren't accepting it anymore. Yeah, they used to kind of say, okay, I'll make up for it in my personal life, you know, I'll I don't work to live or I don't live to work, I work to live, and I think people reconciled with that pre covid. But it's a whole new world in a lot of ways and I think those stats are no longer acceptable to anyone. But I think that's encouraging because that means we're going to make a movement in the right direction. Yeah, it feels like part of it is definitely saying, okay, we're going to leave the unfulfilling jobs. The other part of it that I'm interested to...

...see flesh out over the next few years is when you realized you could go somewhere else to make more money. And if our definition internally is just that we need more money to feel successful, like whatever that definition of success is has US chasing certain things. So, and you see that as well, like success and fulfillment are not the same thing. They are not the same thing, and I actually call that the success trap, because for those who have experienced success and you worked hard for it and you earned it and you get there and it's like really, this is this, is it right? And it doesn't fill that hole that we thought it would, at least not for very long. And I am not saying that you have to give up success on the path to fulfillment. In fact, most fulfilled people are also very successful because they found that alignment between their unique skills, passions and talents and that makes them more productive, that makes them high performers, that makes them contagious and attractive in the workforce and to others and good leaders so I'm not against success, I'm just against success as being your ultimate goal, because it's empty, it doesn't do what it promises. And just to take this a step further, to distinguish between how I define at least, success and fulfillment. Yeah, is that success tends to be measured externally. Right, so it's the job title, the square footage of your home, your car, the salary, for example, and again, all fine things. I like those things. I want more and nicer of those things, but if that's our end goal, it's external, it's very empty, doesn't fill US internally. Fulfillment is those wonderful internal feelings of contentment alignment, piece joy, purpose, satisfaction, contribution. Right, and again, it's not an either or proposition, thank goodness, you can have your cake and eat it too. Yeah, make sure that it's fulfillment that you're going for, not just success, because success will let you down every time. Okay, so we have these three buckets that I'm imagining. Skills, passions, talents. They're all necessary in this equation that you're laying out. If I'm to pull one of those buckets away, fulfillment isn't going to happen. So maybe break that down for us, how that works and how you see it being skills, passions and talents. So this actually lines up with some pretty deep geeky brain science which can into I love going Geeky, but when your brain is firing right, so when we go from sitting on the couch resting to purposeful action, to getting some kind of result, whatever that result might be. It may be choosen where to go for dinner, it might be solving a world...

...crisis. So there's a process that our brains go through, and almost entirely subconscious in fact. We tend not to be aware of this process that's going on and lesser until there is road blocks, and that's where where we feel stress and friction and unfulfillment and problems. But most of the time, and that's why they call it your state of flow, right, it just flows, it just works. But there's dominoes that must fall, and I call them Dominos because bend you. What happens if the first domino doesn't fall? What happens to the other ones? Oh yeah, they're going to stay standing as well. Then don't fall. So it's not just that you tick the box as you got to take them in the right order. The dominoes have to fall in the right order. So the first thing that happens in your brain is the spark of motivation that aligns with the affective part of your mind, and this is where our personality lies. Personally is a big word. A lot of people like to use that one, talk about that one. But our values, are beliefs, are emotions, are motivations. Again, this is your why, right. So we can channel SIGNMON's neck here. Why we get out of bed in the morning, why we take action in the first place. So that's the spark starts the fire. Right. So there's no amount of talent or skill in the world that can overcome a lack of caring right right. I know for my Kiddos I might really care about them cleaning their room, but unless they care about cleaning their room, not a lot of results start happening. Right. There might be some cowersion there, but so we have to care first. However, I know there's a lot of things that I want to do, I wish I could do, I prefer to do I want to do and I don't get them done. So passions gets a lot of attention, but it's not enough. Because what happens in our brains? Once we have that spark, then our brains allocate effort, they allocate mental energy. In other words, we act on that feeling right because otherwise it just stays in the feeling. It's a dream. To get a result, we must take action. And this is the critical piece that almost everybody misses, which is the coolest part of my job because I get to tell them about the middle piece that they've had with them their whole lives but never knew about, which is a topic for another conversation. But this aligns with something called cone nation, or the conitive part of the mind, new vocab word, although cool thing. It was the word of the day a couple weeks ago. This is in the back occipital part of your brain, which actually happens to be one of the earliest aspects of your brain to develops. It's very primitive and instinctual and this is how your brain, my brain, says okay, now that we care, here's how you allocate effort. Here is your most natural, innate pattern for problem solving and...

...getting results, and that pattern is different for each person. So we might be motivated by and passionate about the exact same things, and I have a feeling you and I actually have a lot of those things in common, but the way we act on those is different. Right, think about a colleague. Right, you might both be wanting to get to the same amazing results with your team, but the way you contribute to that path, the way that you make that happen, might be very different from you in that colleague. And then the last thing that happens in our brains is that we think about it. And this is the cognitive part of our brains and this lines up with our thinking. So this is your skills, experience, training, what you know, right, and this is where we edit, we evaluate. So we might have the spark. Our brains might be starting to take action and even now we might say, you know, I don't have the skills to do this, or maybe this isn't the most appropriate thing to do right now, or maybe I don't have the resources or for various reasons. Again, a domino might not fall. But assuming all three dominoes fall, that we satisfied an alignment with our why, we've satisfied alignment with our how and we satisfied alignment with our what. That's how we get action and that feels like flow, which translates into fulfillment. Interesting. So when someone comes to you and they go emily, I feel like I'm missing one of these. So let's say it's you know, I feel like I have some skills and some talents, but I'm lacking the passion. Like, what is that conversation like, because I would venture to guess there's quite a few people listening that go I check a couple of these boxes and it's just one that I'm like, man, I really feel like I'm lacking right here. Well, first off, if that's you, don't beat yourself up about it, because fulfillment is is not like some destination that we just arrive at and say, Ah, I'm fulfilled, I'm done for life. Right, much like our physical health, to stay healthy, we have to make daily good decisions and have daily good habits. Right, health is something we have to work at. It's not something we just arrive at and forget about. FULFILM it's really the same. You can be fulfilled and then become unfulfilled and then become fulfilled again. Right. I think we've all kind of experienced that. It's not this straight line and that requires us to be our own best advocates. To go back to how we open this conversation. For alignment, so making daily good decisions, daily good habits that realign us back with our skills, passions and talents, and first in our jobs, but also in our lives and relationships. So if that's you, it's not like you messed up, it's just a life happened and it happens to all of us, although, much like our health, if we neglect it for a long period of time,...

...we have a lat longer road to get back to health right. We might have a whole lot more weight to lose or exercising might be a bigger challenge. So if we keep it to those daily realignments, it makes it life a lot easier, and same is true for fulfillment. Secondly, it's awesome just to have a framework so that you can identify what's going wrong. Right most people come to me they don't know about these three parts of the mind. They don't know how to articulate specifically what's breaking down. They just know things are broken and that's where they get. I'm unfulfilled, I have no idea what to do and I don't even know where to start. So just by going through those three components and breaking it down as a diagnostic to which one or ones of these are out of alignment is ninety percent of the battle. And I want it back up a minute because, if you think about it, skills create confidence. When we have the skills to do our job, we feel confident about doing our job. Passions lead to motivation. When we're passionate about our work and our teams and our companies, we are motivated and engaged to perform and when we can use our talents at work we have freedom to get results in our own way. And that's another great way to ask your self the questions of where's the breakdown happening? You know, do I have confidence to do my job, am I motivated to do my job, and do I have freedom to get results in my own way? But the more specific you can get, the better you're going to be at advocating for yourself and asking your team, your employer and others to help you. Because just saying Hey, I'm unfulfilled, I need help, it's going to be a lot harder for others to help you than to say, Hey, I've got a skills gap, I'm not feeling really confident about what I know going into my job. I'm passionate, I feel like I'm on the right scene in the bus, but you know, my job just changed a lot and I think I need to do some training. Can you help me with that? That's a good ask. That's where we get help. That's one of those micro adjustments along the way where we can get greater alignment. I love the confidence, motivation freedom idea because there's an old like journalist trick where you ask the person the same question in four different ways so that, yeah, they're they're giving you like a different answer or they're having to decide did I give the right answer the first time? Or what you know? So you just keep asking the same question slightly different, and I think you go internal with that and go okay, let me ask myself some questions around skills, passions, talents and then I'm going to come back to myself if I don't feel like I have the full picture or the right answer quite yet, or it's it's not hitting perfect. Okay, confidence motivation freedom, new way...

...of frame in the question and I'm sure it shakes out some different things. They're so okay, we have these sort of like large scale these categories, breakdown for us what it looks like the daily habit that you're mentioning there. What are the questions we're asking ourselves? What's that check in look like? Sure, okay, so let's go one by one. So skills. If we feel like there's a skills gap, first off, that's an easy thing to solve. For No, most motivated, high achieving individuals, you know, if you don't know it, go learn it right and there's amazing resources out there now at our fingertips for very little to sometimes no cost. Like you to me, skill share linkedin learning. A lot of our companies offer inhouse training resources or they might even reimburse you for doing training. So a little bit of tough love is there's really no excuse at this point for a skills gap, although we need to recognize that sometimes it's just as easy as that. Sometimes I think we over blow what is something that could be solved by training, by because it's a confidence thing, great, by making it something bigger or questioning like do I deserve this? Did I make the wrong career choice? You know, am I supposed to be here? And I get it. I mean I'm I've made big at you know, I'm mountain out of a mole hill before, but sometimes it's really just as simple as that, and it's a matter of okay, where's the gap and how do I close it? And Ask your employer for help with that or go get it on your own. I'm not saying you got to necessarily go back and get another four year degree, but there's just so many great resources out there to learn what you need. Okay, so that's that's that. An experience, of course, helps us with that too. I will also say that, you know, growth only comes from discomfort. So, you know, embracing that feeling of I've got a skills gap, because that means you're just about to grow, because when you close that gap you're going to be a better person on the other side and, of course, have more to offer. Okay. So if there's a motivations gap, if it's a passions gap, that's when, first off, it could be caused by two different things. One could be at work really asking yourself, do I believe in in the work that I'm doing? Do I see the impact of the work that I'm doing? And that's where we can talk about from the company perspective. They can do a lot to help people see that they matter, that they have importance, that every single person in the company is contributing to some kind of impact. But hopefully every person sees that their day in and day out is moving the needle somewhere. But you know, do you know the mission, vision and values of your organization? Do you agree with those things? If not, that's going to be pretty tough. Are you struggling with interpersonal conflict at work? To have a not conflict with your manager? No,...

...those things have to be dealt with or they will constantly be impediments to our fulfillment. But we got to think outside of work too. Are you going through a divorce, a death in the family, a tough time, mental health struggles? Maybe even good things? Maybe you just had a baby, maybe you just had a promotion, you move cross country, but those things can be really disruptive and I think sometimes again, more than we give them credit for. And here's the thing about about passion that I think sometimes isn't isn't recognized. Is it APPS and flows? You know, we're not a hundred percent passionate all the time and what we are passionate about changes. So recognizing, you know what's exciting me right now, and is my job and career and life in alignment with those things that excite me right now and, if not, start dealing with those things. And then, lastly, the talent piece or the freedom piece. That happens when we feel like we're force fitting our efforts at work. HMM, if you feel like you have to turn yourself off and go through some sort of motions, maybe by self expectations or outside expectations, to get your job done, that's unsustainable. Not only is it inefficient and you're going to be less productive for more effort, you will burn out because we're we're creating so much friction in our brains that are our brains will say hey, I'm not doing this anymore. And so if that's the case, if you feel like, man, I got into this work because I'm so passionate about the impact I'm making. I absolutely have the skills and confidence to do my job, but man, this role, this role just forces me to be somebody I'm not, that's when you can start to consider maybe there is a way to get more freedom. Can I get to the same results but do it a different way? You know, have a conversation with your manager. Am I expected to do this job this way because that's the way it's always been done, or am I allowed to get the same results but in my own way? Or consider task bartering. Now we're much more collaborative now than we've ever been in the workplace. Maybe there are other people who love doing what you hate to do and who hate doing what you love to do and are natural APP right. So reimagining how those tasks are alumate allocated amongst the team. HMM. And then I I don't want to say worst case, but you can also consider just an internal transfer. Now maybe you're on the right bus but you'll landed in the wrong seat, and that's when you can talk to your manager and employer about, Hey, I love it here, but I think I can be a better contributor somewhere else. How can we find a role that gives me more freedom to contribute in the way that comes as actually for me? So all these come back to great, open, respectful, trusting conversations. Of course you have to have that kind of culture, which is why companies coming to play with...

...their part of things. But opening up those conversations but there are solutions. These are things that we can solve for. It's just a matter of again getting hyper specific about where those breakdowns are happening, having open conversations and finding mutually beneficial solutions. So much good there, and thank you for breaking that down for us. I want to switch us over now to the company side, because you mentioned a few things that the company can do sort of already baked in. Let's start with motivation, because that seems like the clear, clear cut one, at least in my mind. I know all three. There's definitely aspects, but when a company is I mean there's a litany of reasons why you would want your employees to feel fulfilled. That works. We don't even need to break that down. But when they're thinking about these three, what can the company do to come alongside its workers and go, okay, we want you to have motivation, confidence, freedom, and let's start with motivation there, emily. Yeah, well, I like that you start there, because that's what's getting a lot of attention. I would say those cultural components one hundred percent right. The having a great motivating, inspiring, engaging culture and a great first step, which might sound obvious, but I would say a lot of people overlook or take for granted is do you really have a compelling mission vision and Value Statement? First, does it exists and secondly, is it just frames somewhere in the lobby? Yeah, how's IT IN FRONT OF PEOPLE? I think that's so key, right right, that it has to go beyond box checking. And nowadays nobody's even walking through the lobby because most of us are remote. So, you know, are you embracing it as a leadership? How are you living that out? How does it relate to what you're doing at every level in the company? So either making sure those exist or revisiting those and then talking about those, living them out, translating them down through the company, because that's one of the most significant things you can do from a motivation perspective, also from the impact side. Share success stories, have clients come and and give internal town halls and tell your employees hey, because of what you did in that cubicle or at your desk at home, you know, this has meaning, this has purpose, this changed my life, or this change just recognition programs. There's a lot of great technologies and software now that you can implement to make sure that we're acknowledging and recognizing people. I've had managers say and they're great people. So in no way is negatively motivated. But like hey, if I don't give them feedback, that means they're good, doing a good job. Right. I only need to give feedback if they're doing a bad job or we need to correct something. No, humans need to hear great job. That...

...was amazing, that was awesome and here's why. Here's the impact it made. So making sure we're setting that mission, vision and values, that clear culture, making sure we're giving recognition, making clearly impact at all levels and then having a trusting, respectful culture. Psychological Safety, and there's a amazing book on this topic that called the fearless organization, and that is the playbook of how to create an organization with psychological safety. But those would be the three things. Go there first and and frankly, that's going to cover most of your bases and and get everybody engaged. But we know that. Actually I have a know of an organization right now that has really high engagement. Their engagement survey scores look awesome, but yet they also have high turnover. So just having motivation, just having high engagement, just having belief, while so incredibly important, is not enough. We have to have the other two. So on that before we go to the other two, because definitely, just like personally, we need all three. Clearly, on the organization side we're going to need all three. But something was coming to my head on the motivation side specifically, which is that in our remote world now you can't rely on things being caught in the same way, meaning you hear all the time like it's got to be caught, not taught, and we relied on oh well, we're all around each other. So the culture of our organization is going to be it's going to be caught by people automatically, whereas now you might see your whole company in like one meeting a week where only a few people talk because it's on Zoom and there's not enough interaction. So you have to be hyper intentional about the ways that you're actually allowing people to know what is the culture of an organization, because I think a lot of people they're renegotiating what that even means. If we're all remote, working from different places, how are you going to have an organizational culture? And that's why this is such a hot button topic right now both at Fort Departments right like on this podcast we're talking to marketing teams, but then as organizations as well. So I love having to think about and renegotiate like how are we actually going to get our mission across in a fully remote environment? How are we going to actually allow people to catch and be taught right, both together and and allow those things? One thing I'll highlight from us at sweet fish. I think adding a winds channel to your slack super hyper practical, but it allows for new team members to see what matters to these people, like what are they celebrating consistently? Managers can go in there, but anybody can go in there and add something that was a win in their department, and seeing that type of stuff reinforces what matters to us right now in our all hands. Having a time where we go over our vision every week is another reinforcer...

...of what Emily's talking about here. So I just want to make some like hyper practical things for us as takeaways before we go into these other two. Emily, sorry to jump in there for a minute. Those are excellent examples and I actually have one more to tack on. Something that my husband does with his division of the organization is he takes a value percorder and he encourages he so he's a manager of managers, but he encourages his managers and their direct reports to talk about okay, how, over this quarter, are we going to embody this value as a team it, because sometimes it feels very disconnected, right, it feels like something that the way higher ups decided and it's decreed down. But we want to encourage everyone in the organization to first know what they are and, secondly, really internalize them for themselves and define what it means for them and to decide how that translates into their role, into their team and and those are great ways to do that. But you can't you can't just, you know, frame it on the wall and say, okay, we're good to go and move on. Okay, so let's start around this conversation out. Let's hit on confidence and freedom real quick, if you would perfect. Okay. So, yeah, we want confident employees, right, that sounds pretty obvious. But not to keep throwing out covid. I know we're kind of tired of all talking about Covid, but covid changed a lot, obviously, but for a lot of people. They might have the same job title as they did pre covid but they might need totally different skills and capabilities to get their job done these days, and we as employers need to recognize that it's part of our responsibility to make sure that they have those training resources, that we are helping them and developing their skills. And also, people are demanding growth in their roles right not just to meet the job that they're in. People want to grow their skills they can be in the next job. So what does this look like? Well, any company can established for no cost of mentorship program connect them up with somebody in your organization that can do knowledge sharing but also, you know, shepherd them in their career trajectory. Also, as I mentioned earlier in the conversation, you to me has a you to me for business option. I mean all these resources. You can buy licenses for your employees to use up, you could do reimbursement for tuition or for you know, have a training budget are it doesn't have to be massive, but just allocating a little bit of money towards this and even giving your your team members freedom to decide how they want to spend it would be huge in helping them to feel more fulfilled. But it's a win win, because now your employees are coming back with more confidence and capabilities to do their job well and hopefully prepare for the next job.

For for marketing leaders listening to this and for marketing departments. Let's just this. This is why I want to have emily on, because a lot of what we're talking about is tactical and it's it's what happened on your last campaign whatever. We need to zoom out every once in a while and and think about fulfillment. So, emily, thank you for challenging us to think about it, both personally and and as organizations, because now we're right here in the center, right where we've hit that fulfillment space. Any sort of final challenge to our audience, maybe speaking to both individuals and businesses when it comes to what fulfillment is at work and how we should maybe move forward from this episode? Well, I want to make sure we capture that freedom piece. Yeah, right, the talent piece, and that's the part that's almost always overlooked. I mean, if we think about our hiring process, we hire them for skills. We look at their resume and say, okay, Yep, they have the experience, background, training degrees to do the job here. But we all know the smartest person is not always the most successful. Not sure. Yeah, field, we get to know them in the interview process. Oh, I like this person, I resonate with them, they drive with our culture. I think they'd fit in here. They share our mission, vision and values. Okay, let's hire them. Wait a minute, do not pass go yet, because we have to think about that third piece. Are we putting people in roles that give them freedom to get to results in their own way? And I actually work with companies to use assessments where we don't have to guess on what that is. We can actually scientifically coordinate that that matchup and make sure that we are reliably putting people into the right roles. But for those team members that you've already hired or, if you know, for leaders of teams, one of the easiest ways to give people freedom is to paint success and back up, get really, really clear on the result, be a results focused manager and then back off. You know, we don't have to dictate how each and every team member gets to that result and in fact it's not even helpful for everybody to get there the same way and that that Harkens back to the educational system, where there's one right way and as a result, eighty percent of kids feel stress a little or a lot every day in school, because human beings aren't created like that. So we have to be careful that we're aware of our own biases as managers to do it our way right. This has been successful for me, so you should do it that way. To keep that in check. Reflect on that. We need to allow for operational diversity, a lot of different people having freedom to get at that result in different ways, but just being so clear on the result and success allows for that freedom naturally to follow through. Hmm, I love that. Well, we've hit on a lot here. Skills, passions, talents. Another way to think about it confidence, motivation, freedom for individuals. Harketing back to the very beginning of this conversation,...

...right, we're going to take agency, which most of us are doing for our career, for our fulfillment in work. We have personal agency, so we own that side. Then, obviously, as leaders we want to create the best environment for people to thrive, for them to be fulfilled. It has business implications that in massive benefits and so we're thinking that way. To leaving this episode, emily, it's been fantastic to get to chat with you here. People are going to want to stay connected to you in the work you're doing. So how can people do that? Awesome. So if you're that high achieving professional who wants more fulfillment and your career in life, definitely connect with me on Linkedin, and also you can visit my website, emily meliascom. Would love to continue the conversation with you there. I have a free training on the fulfillment formula. So if you want a rehash of this, go ahead check it out there. And then, if you're that business leader who is committed to creating a fulfilling workplace, not just because it's the right thing to do but it's good for business, check US out at launch consulting DOT ioh and I hope to see you there. Thank you so much for for being on be tob growth today, emily. It was a blast. Thanks so much. I love talking about fulfillment and here's to everyone's fulfillment of those listening yeah, absolutely so. We're always having conversations like this here on B tob growth, insightful ones. Things that are hopefully going to help you feel your growth and your innovation. If you've yet to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that right now. Wherever you're listening to this, you can connect with me on Linkedin as well. We're always talk about marketing business life over there and would love to hear from you. Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need to have on the show, reach out email me, ben dot block at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I look forward to hearing from you.

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