How Do You Measure Your Podcast's Success?

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Join us for our second B2B Podcasting Q&A, where we discuss a few specific ways to measure your podcast's success.

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Yeah, so welcome back everyone. I think we've still got a few more people jumping in but we're going ahead and just get started. This first question and any questions you have throughout the rest of this call for the 30 minutes we have today just drop it in the chat and either dan or myself Logan couldn't join us this time but we'll be looking in the chat and we will try to answer if we don't answer your question on this call will get it in the dock that way we can answer it on future calls. But the first question is what metrics to consider and track for success. I know dan this is something I think we touched on a little bit last week but do you want to jump in and tackle this question? I know we get a lot, there's like multiple. I'm not sure what list you're working for him for these questions, but I can answer this one for sure. When it comes to measuring podcast success, it's kind of difficult right? Because you're only given a set list of podcast analytics, you log into your lipson or sounder or whatever analytics analytics dashboard you have and you see some downloads. It's like yeah. And then you publish again, you see some more downloads and hopefully they're more than last time. The problem is you're like, well these are these good are these bad? Most of us have been working with websites and blog posts long enough to kind of know that five people reading a blog post isn't that great. The 250 is getting pretty good and if you're in the thousands and you're doing really good, right? But in podcast and you're like what are the benchmarks we can look at? So here's a couple of ways you can actually determine what to look at. Look at in your podcast analytics, one to compare apples to apples to itself, to your other channels and then to the industry. Those are kind of three different ways to provide enough context to know if your podcast is successful when comparing podcast analytics to itself. What I really like to look at are you seeing rising totals with each new episode within the first couple of days, right? That kind of shows how many new subscribers you have, unlike Youtube and podcasting. You don't get to be told how many subscribers you have Apple and Spotify. Keep that mystery from you. You do not get to know how many people have actually tapped that subscribe button, but you can see how many times it's being pulled when you first release it. So that kind of tells you what it is from all the different platforms. I want to see that number going up each time or at least on average. You know, some will go up, some will go down. But is that going up? You also want to take a look at your total downloads or listeners for the month and that's because you're back catalogue of episodes will continue to get download. So you need to look at that as well. Those are the two places to look at. If your podcast is doing well within podcasting itself, outside the podcasting, just comparing it to your other channels, I like to look at minutes consumed. Is it getting as many minutes consumed as a blog post? The fun thing about a podcast is that you're consuming way more minutes, right? Somebody is listening to you for 30 to 40 minutes. That's a lot of engagement. If you take that same engagement to compare apples to apples with blog post, you're probably getting what, 57 minutes at best with a long blog post. So just know that it probably won't get the same reach as a blog post because they can't get founded in many ways. But that engagement is deeper. So in order to compare more apples to apples, you want to compare consumption metrics like minutes consumed and the last one is industry benchmarks. We actually just published a blog post just showcasing what we've been able to learn after launching 100 plus podcasts of where you can expect if you're in the B two B space, you can see expect to be in like a month, +16 months in a year in all the way up to two years in. We've had a number of different podcasts we've managed. So we've kind of Pull those all together to pull averages for where most BTB podcasts are, at least if they're working with us, remember off the top of your head and what some of those numbers are, I want to say it was like in the 1st 30 days, was it around like 50? Do you do you have those at the top of your head? I'm not on top of my head, but I can pull it up real quick. It's just in our most recent blog post here. So within 30 days you can expect about 50 downloads and 90...

...days. You're looking at about 150-200 180 days. 200 a year in about 400 on average and two years in Around the 800 plus if you've been doing well. And that's what you can expect to be seen downloads of each episode. Nice. And I'll link that and put it in the chat for more like an elaboration of everything I just said. Yeah, just dropped it in the chat too. So that post is there. If anybody wants to check that out, could I just add something onto that? What I've seen people do is when they actually use a landing page with a C. T. A. To share it through their emails or you can even do it through social media, then what you could do is you can see the site traffic that's coming onto your landing page. You can see the number of email sign ups, for example, the open rates on that. And for example, you can see the engagement rates on your social media channels, like the shares and then the comments and of course, there's people who refer that link to someone else. Those are some other ways that you can track it as well, which is outside the podcast itself, Colin you left a comment said, success can also be determined by the content your podcast creates and the engagement generated from that content Colin Did you want to elaborate on that at all? I don't know if you're if you want to um you know if you're just gonna spot where you can talk column but I would say that I absolutely agree with that. The content we've we've created a lot of content through our show B two B growth that then splinters off and turns into linked in content that we use. So Logan dan and I will jump on it behind the curtain episode, for example will be talking through a new methodology that we've developed or some scorecard or model that we're using as it relates to be to be podcasting, will record the episode, will send it over to our writing team. MBK who's on this call, she'll turn it into a blog post and then a lot of times dan Logan myself. Well look at that blog post and we'll be able to pull different linkedin status updates, we'll end up getting way more attraction. You know, our podcast is uh has quite a bit of reach. Each episode gets about 2000 downloads but when each of us post something on linked in about it dan will get you know, 10,000 views on his linkedin status about it. I'll get you know, 10 or 15,000 views Logan similar. So you look at the the impact of that piece of content goes far beyond the 2000 people we reached that are subscribed to our show and you start to see that it can go bananas on other platforms, particular linked in because the organic reaches so crazy right now, Colin just commented, He said sorry too loud here to on mute hashtag work ramon awesome. So this next question is from peter Murphy Lewis and he said, are there any S. O. P. Standard operating procedures that would make things faster or easier or more consistent rob? I dropped you a direct message on here, feel free to say no. But with you being a producer on our team and relatively new to the team having a show before you joined our team, are there any particular standard operating procedures that you either had before you join the team or after you joined the team that have been really really helpful for you? You guys are gonna laugh because everybody who works for Sweet fish is going to know what I beat the drum of build a. Q. And then if there is 11 rule I basically have for every single of our customers that works with me. And the first thing I say to them is if you're going to have your podcast produced by me, the number one thing we need to do is build a Q. And the other part of that is almost batch creation as well. You need to get a day and you need to schedule 234 interviews, maybe it's gonna be a whole evening. Seriously, I've gotten out of sweet fish and literally podcasts until 11 PM with yes for my show. And it's really great because when you are bringing things through in kind of a clump, it not only lets you kind of, you know, specialists that we all know that if you specialize...

...in something with the task or something like that is often easily more easily repeatable. But also again back to the q part, you're able to build this buffer is the best word I can use where you're not just trying to figure out. Oh my god, I have a show to launch on Wednesday. And what do I do? You have four weeks? You have six weeks, for example. Right now, my own show Is running six weeks ahead of schedule. There is so much more, I can do what I'm not worried about what I was going to put out this morning in that case. So that's the number one thing I would say number two, when you go back, when you finish an episode, there's a couple other things you probably want to do right after you, you do it. There's a little bit tough to maybe partner with batch recording but you can uh set aside some time maybe the next day or something like that. But if you have episodes, you need to listen to them all the way through and have a notebook. Have a little notebook. Makes a couple times stamps. When does your show truly start? Where are the flubs in the show? Where are things that you just want? Cut out screen of screw ups, whatever it might be. And then Where are the 2-3 like major amazing points that you can go through and say, man, that is a dynamite line right there. That should be on a poster. And that's what you make your your show graphics out of and things like that. So, there will be some of the, the standard operating procedures that I started before I even came to sweet fish. And they're actually very much very similar to the processes that we use here at sweet fish for all of our customers. And do you have anything? I know you've built a lot of processes whenever you first came on board. One standard operating procedure I'm thinking of is around guest outreach and just having even the scripting that you're going to use to get guests. I would say that part of that script to get guests needs to involve some level of customization for why you're asking them to be on the show. We used to just do a simple kind of like one or two sentence. It didn't have any really personalization in the email and we just found that over time it became increasingly less effective. But whenever we tell the guest why we want them to be on the show, we still keep it brief. We try to keep it still 3 to 4 sentences in those in that outreach. But I think creating a standard operating process around what your guest outreach is going to look like. Touch one touch to touch three. Maybe your first touches on linkedin. Maybe your second touches email. Maybe your third touches is a tweet and having that documented so that it can be repeatable. But dan any anything else outside of guest outreach that you can think of. I've done a lot of guts outreach with people that I've just kind of like bumping into on linkedin. Like even today someone messaged me and he's been the producer for the Art of Manliness podcast for eight years and is growing at a really large and even though it's not B two B. I was like, dude, you want to be on the show, I'd love to learn from you, you know, see what you've done. Even though it's yeah, even though he's in B two C. So like that's happened organically. But now I'm actually systematically reaching out to guests that I'd love to have on the show and not all of them are active on social media. But there's still an advantage to finding them on social media because I'd really like to do outreach through a channel where they're active partly because it's easier for them to kind of like check out my profile, see that I'm like legit right? Not just some weird person doing mass emailing them. Um But even then I can go and kind of creep on their profiles, look at them on linkedin twitter and instagram, see that they're active on none of them. Which is actually like I find is like 80 of the case they post every once in a while but they're not really active on social. It's probably because they're killing it and their work you know at work and then they go home, right? And that's okay. But still finding something on those profiles that you can reference to get them to want to be a guest on the show and one you use like Hunter dot Io to find their email, right? Then you can email and be like, hey, I saw that you were into this. I'd love to talk to you about that on the show. That little personal. I saw that That's going to make a huge difference in actually getting them to respond to...

...your your outreach. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily need to be from their personal profile either. It can be an observation of something that their company did. Could be something like that. Right? The pile right on top of that dan. This is a concept I introduced into my own show, which is about hunting for jobs and things like that, I call it micro networking, because you're looking for that one piece of content that's probably on their Killington page. Probably somewhere in the social fabric of what that guest is. That is the literal achilles heel to their heart to say, oh, you asked about this. Sure, I'll be on your show. I mean it's really an interesting kind of thing where you can get very big buy in from somebody by asking about the right thing. All right, anybody anybody else have any thoughts on S. O PS that they've developed standard operating procedures that they've developed around around their podcasts. That would be helpful. Yeah, I kind of adding on to what James you said and rob and dan. I mean that's what I call the planning phase, you know, to be ready for the podcast. There's also the setup phase where you have to actually make sure you have the equipment, the tools, the right stuff. And there's also um what you call the recording phase when you make sure everything works, uh editing all of that and then afterwards there's the production phase, the post production base where you make sure the final checkups. You know, I kind of actually used like a test team on social media where I could just send out like a demo version and get some live feedback that could give you lots of the inputs and ideas and maybe identify some mistakes that you've done. And finally, um of course you've got the distribution and promotion uh phase, just like a set of phases that you constantly have to use uh to make sure that you have everything covered from start scratch from the end, start to end. Yeah. Hi dan Sanchez here with a quick break from this episode, sponsor Vidyard. If you haven't started using personal video yet to enhance your marketing campaigns, you're missing out having the ability to quickly capture video and record my computer screen or both helps me not only create marketing assets faster, it makes them way more personable. I use personal videos and social media email blast landing pages and even on our website, Vidyard makes it easy to record host in bed and share videos to more deeply engaged with your ideal buyers prospects have told me repeatedly that they are blown away every time they get one for me. So sign up for Vidyard free today by going to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth. And just like you guys, the team at Vidyard can't keep up with all these promo codes on podcasts so they are making signing up as easy as possible, so no promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth. So start using vidyard completely free and as a bonus get their 2021 B two B video trans guide. Yeah, I really like the way you broke it down in in phases there numbness James. I was just gonna throw something out there. I know that there's you know, depending on if they're working with you guys or however people are doing their guest booking. I also attach a best practices document around, hey, here's how you're going to be on camera, here's how the background should be set up, you know, making sure they close that applications, how the format of the show works, links to past episodes. They can see how that works. Um and that just educates everybody and tell them, please read this two days in advance so they don't show up and then you know, not have something set up at the last minute. So that was another thing that's been pretty helpful for me. That's great. I I don't see jeremy from our team on this call. I was just on a call with them before we jumped on here. But that's something that Jeremy spends a lot of time on with our customers is making sure that our customers know how...

...to best prep their guests to make sure that that is a pretty common question. I would say that we get is around uh and I know we had this last week to but around what, you know, what kind of equipment does our customers guests need to have And we found that we don't send microphones to our, all of our customers guests. That would get pretty crazy if you, if you send podcast equipment to everyone, but dan. anything else related to what can just mentioned that comes top of mind for you around kind of the host and guest relationship, any any S. O PS or processes that can streamline that. I mean there's quite a few and it kind of depends on like what you're trying to get out of the episode, whether you're coming at it from an account based marketing approach or just a general content marketing approach or a thought leadership approach. It kind of depends there's nuances with all of them so I kind of want to know when I'm usually when I'm meeting with customers, I'm kind of digging into the specifics in order to customize their approach on there, what's going to be there? S O. P raj just asked a question in the chat, he said would you recommend having guests sign a release? We should write a blog post on this semi because we get this a lot. I never request guests sign a release. I think the biggest reason why I don't ask guests to sign a release is because I want there to be as little friction as possible between asking them to be on the show and actually getting to build a relationship with them and create content with them and asking them to sign a release. Just feels like it's unnecessary friction. When someone is saying yes to being a guest on your show, they obviously know that that's it's not it's content that you own and that you're going to be able to use use that. So I guess I'm not real worried about the legal ramifications of what they would do, knock on wood that nothing like that has ever happened with us or our customers. But if anybody else has a counter thought to that, I'm happy to hear somebody, you know, make a case for why, I can certainly see why. But at the same time, like I just got asked to sign a release this morning for another podcast as I was on, I'm like, I just feel like ask the release piece feels like official, it feels professional, but at the same time, I had a mentor tell me once like don't apply big business processes to smaller businesses. If you work for google, then you should probably have a release because google's got a big target on it said they know there's lots of money there. If there's any ran like random thing they can go after, like they'll go after you. So you kind of have to weigh like the liability and the risk associated with it. It's kind of gonna be dependent on the type of people you're talking to, the types of things you're talking about. But generally in business to business, if if your companies like startup or midsize even it's kind of like uh Where 2000 episodes and it hasn't been a problem. And a lot of our customers are much larger than us and it hasn't, and we're not very few of them are doing it And it hasn't been a problem in any of those cases. And we're publishing a ton of episodes beyond our own show every single week. So, but again, it's one of those things where like you have to consult your lawyer to see now, if you actually consult a lawyer, of course they'll come, they'll come up with 50 reasons why you should do it because they're lawyers and that's what they get to think about. Again, I don't think applying big business processes too small, smaller and medium sized companies is a good idea. One of the things that I actually do for my own show is that I don't have a release per se, but I've had to kind of sort of like micro releases if you will. Uh one was in my guest form like, hey, I agree to be on the show and not so rob if anything is going down the road, you know, things like that. But the one that I really found was useful is I just roll it into the Kind of the prep document that I send to my guests that says, you know, Hey, it's going to take about an hour and 15 minutes of your time as far as recording and you know what, by agreeing to appear on the show. Uh You hold me, you're basically giving me content is what it boils down to and that's worked really well. Nobody's ever, you know, with a couple companies have been working with with my show, nobody's ever turned up their nose to it or anything like that, You know, basically is just to protect and make...

...sure I can always have an episode 17, I've found that at least with me because I'm in the podcasting space obviously and have been doing this for half a decade, I get asked to be on a lot of shows and I just can speak from the guests perspective as someone who gets asked to be on a lot of shows. Now, this isn't going to be the case for a lot of you because a lot of you are interviewing kind of industry experts where there's not a lot of shows in that industry, so they're not getting asked to be on a lot of shows, but from my perspective, the least amount of friction as possible that you're going to require of me to be on the show, the better chris walker has mentioned this uh in a similar way, and on some content that I've created on linkedin around pre interviews. Again, I'm a huge advocate for pre interviews, but when you're talking to someone who is accustomed to doing a lot of media, a lot of podcast interviews, it ends up just kind of being annoying and not super helpful because they already know what they're gonna say, they've written a book about it, or they they're speaking on stages about it. So, I what you mentioned there rob I think is super helpful for folks, especially if you're interviewing a lot of practitioners that are not on a lot of shows, I think they probably want that context, uh and they want to know more. They want to feel like they're really prepared going into it. This last question is again, one that we see a lot, um, and it's around uh, specifically around, you know, are there any templates or things that you do to get guests to share and post the podcast on their channels or on their blog? This is something I've found dan rob you all anybody else on this call, you might have some some other thoughts here. But my take on this is I have just found it to be like pulling teeth, trying to get anyone to share your content. And I see a lot of podcasters make the mistake of intentionally going after influential people to be guests on their show because they think, oh, if I get Gary V on the podcast, he's going to share it with his channel and it's gonna blow up my podcast and I'm going to get all this, all this new exposure, all these new listeners, because Gary V shared my podcast. So they go and they interview Gary V and they do the Grant Cardone thing and they do all these other influencers. And to me that that strategy is flawed because people that have gained an enormous amount of influence online have done so by creating their own content. So there's not a lot of incentive for them to share your content when they've already got a machine behind them, building their own content, the incentive and they should be right. They should be like, they're obviously, they're incentivized to share their own stuff as opposed to to sharing yours. And so I try not to, it's not that you should completely punt trying to get your guest to share the content that you create with them. I think if you do a nice, well designed linked in carousel deck, I think they're more likely to promote it. But I think, you know, I don't think the strategy of the show and the audience growth tactic that is primarily deployed should be hinging on whether someone else promotes it because it's an additional thing for them. And just after doing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these things, I've just seen time and time again getting the guests to do anything with the content afterwards is not very doable. So instead use that content that you create and repurposed from the show and have other people in your company share that content. So instead of just having them share a link to the episode, all of the different assets you create, micro videos, blog posts, carousel decks for linked in all these different media types use it for evangelists on your team to use this is something I want to get better at sweet fish and if the guest uses it awesome. But if they don't use it, that content is not wasted because you've got other people on your team that are using that...

...content to get the show out in front of as many people as you can, uh, will add something on that. I might be lagging here, but I'm not sure what I used to do was, um, whenever I actually finished an interview or a podcast show with someone, I would produce a short video snippet and just hand it over to them through email and whether they shared or not, that's a plus. I mean if they shared as a plus for me, if not, they can use it for something else and trust me, they will, you use it for something else? Because some of the people, they would like to show that, hey, I've been on this podcast show, I had some important things to do here is a little stupid of mind, go and listen to it. And then afterwards, what I started doing was I started asking, um, do you want us to give you a short snippet? You know, and I didn't say yes, I give it. If not, I don't give it. And it seemed to work for me. That's a great point. I think asking them, you're, you're gonna save yourself a lot of time and effort. I think in creating assets that never see the light today. If you just ask them, they would you like us to create something. I know there was one show that I was on growth marketing camp with Rex Roberston and they did a really well designed linked in slide deck for me and I wanted to use it because as a content creator I'm looking for, I'm looking for content to create, I didn't have anything on a particular day and I was able to go back and use that because it's a novel, it's a novel piece of content. If you're really good at writing linkedin, status updates, Text only status updates, that's something that me as a creator, like if it's if it's well written and it's done well now a lot, I would say that Lincoln status updates are not usually done well and so that's, you have to make sure like, okay, does my own content do really well on linked in if, so then I've clearly figured out something about the platform and I can apply this ghost writing for my guest content as well. But I think a lot of times the content that gets repurposed is just kind of like, I don't know, half asked content. Honestly, it's it's not it's not great and because of that, the guest isn't going to be incentivized, I'll share a story. The real quick one of our customers, he went to Gary V's office and actually interviewed Gary V. And because it was, you know, a compelling piece of content there, Videographer dirac was there. Gary V ended up doing a lot with the content that this particular customer recorded with him. And they did this whole little sketch, he went on a rant about like being peter pan or some character. And so Gary V social team was able to do a lot with that little rant that Gary did on our customers show. So even Gary V like having as much reach as he does all the resources that he puts into creating content. Used this guys content. And I think made mention briefly that this was this was a part of, you know, the Cannonball mindset podcast, but I still do not think that it moved the needle really hardly at all. If you were to look at this guy's podcast, downloads prior to that happening and post, I think he would tell you that it wasn't a massive needle mover and that was with Gary V, the guy who showed all of us how to how to do social well, putting his entire engine behind promoting a particular clip from this guy's show. So I just think it goes to show that spending a lot of time trying to get someone else to share your content can be a fool's errand. Don't forget to ask them, Ask them anyway, but don't expect anything from it. That's the biggest thing. I'm glad you said that rob ask but don't expect. And I see a lot of people go in, a lot of people go in with expectations and then they get pissed when the guest doesn't share it and it's like you don't want that to muddy up the relationship. That relationship with that guest could end up being...

...incredibly strategic for you and your company. But if you've got bitterness toward them because they didn't share your episode then it's like who cares like the relationship with that guest is significant can be very significant. Don't get mad at them if they don't share it, people are busy, it's not their first priority. Uh But we do get that question a lot, so I'm glad this one came up, we're at the we're at the top of the hour now I've actually got my I just saw that my my next one on one jumped onto the line so we gotta jump off here. But thank you all for for joining. And we'll be back here again at At 2:30 eastern time, next Wednesday. So we'll see all them. Yeah. Mhm. It's sweet fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the internet for every job function and industry on the planet for the B two B marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, but text me At 4074 and I know 3 3-8. Just shoot me their name may be a link to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.

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