B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2036 · 5 months ago

Demand Creation vs. Demand Capture

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

As we wind down our demand gen series, Lesley Crews talks with Andy Davis, Head of Demand Gen at Attest, about demand creation vs. demand capture, and why having both of these in your demand generation strategy is crucial. 

Yeah, what's up? Everybody welcome back to beto be growth. My name is Leslie Cruise with sweet fish media and we arecontinuing our deep dive into demand generation. If you are just now divingin if this is your first time listening to me to be growth, we've been on adeep dive the entire month of april. We've been talking to differentpractitioners and thought leaders in the space about demand generation andthe goal has been to kind of define what it is, um what it's not and whereit's headed in the future. So today I am so excited to be joined by AndyDavis head of demand generation at a test Andy thanks so much for comingonto the show. Where is happy to be here? Absolutely. So the first questionI always ask and you know I'm really excited to hear your answer. I feellike everybody has a different answer is how do you, in your own words,define demand generation? Yeah, I mean I define it very simply, it'sgenerating demand for your business. So if you think about that in terms ofsupply and demand, right? Supply is how much of a thing you've got to sell? Anddemand is how many people want to buy it. So demand generation is the job ofdemand generation is to increase the amount of people in market who want tobuy whatever product it happens to be the or selling. Um, so yeah, from a B2Bperspective that is kind of running all of the different campaigns that youcould could wish to run and want to run, uh, increases kind of intent topurchase for your solution within your target bias. Absolutely, easy peasy. Ilove it to tell me, what are some things that you are doing as head ofdemand generation at a test that kind of makes your team stand out among thedemand gen crowd? Yeah, that's a big question, testing my british modestythere. I think we're, I mean we're above anything. We're just trying to bereally good at like the fundamentals, like more than anything, we're tryingto be rather not necessarily standing out of the crowd, but I've been part ofthe right crowd. And what I mean by that is there's like a trend towardsrevenue marketing over kind of legion and we are like moving ourselves to bekind of a revenue focused team in terms of like what we do, that might beslightly different to other people. I mean, as as a marketing team test testis a research platform. So we're sitting on a date, a gold mineessentially. So whenever we have a question that we could want to ask agroup of people, we can use our own product to ask it. And so for all ofour content has our product front and center. So whenever you see if you wereto look at any of test marketing and use for a data point in there and apiece of insight, we've used our own tool to come up with that, and whatthat means is that we can put our own product at the center of everything.Was also being kind of thought leaders and educational and insight for beingkind of like present the product whilst also not necessarily talking about theproduct, but links straight through to the product if you wish to use thedashboard inside our platform to do your own data analysis on the insightsthat you've just read. So it's kind of like almost like a slightly differenttake on the idea of being product lead.

Um and that we can actually literallyput the result that our product producers into our marketing in a waythat isn't transactional, like I want to buy my things, I want to buy mything. I mean we were gifted that because of the nature of our product,it makes it easier for us to do that. In some word. I think that is one thingthat we do that perhaps other companies, not every other company does do. I knowthere are a lot that do do that, like hats off to them because it works forus. Absolutely. One thing I wanted to talk to you about, I believe you did aLincoln status a few months ago or maybe a few weeks ago on this um andits demand creation versus demand capture. And this is something that'sreally, really interesting to me in this realm of demand generation becauseit is something that's kind of trending right now. What is the difference inbetween, you know, demand capture capturing demand and creating it? Yeah,so, I mean, demand creation is the job of communicating, I either likeeducational content or kind of content that very clearly aligns a pain pointthat someone may be feeling in their work day to a solution that yourproduct offers, that could make that pain point go away. So that is theactivity that kind of in whatever channels you choose to use, whateverchannels work for you, for you creating that connection to kind of like problemI have in my work day and Oh yeah, there's this thing that can help mesolve it. So basically, the thing that's building that intent to purchase,that's demand creation, demand capture is essentially no wastage. So ifsomeone is either in market too buy something in the category that youexist within or they're in market to buy your product. Demand capture is about just don'twaste any of that purchase in town. So that could be that if someone issearching for something a bit like what you sell, make sure you appear in therankings and make sure you're easy to find, make sure your website explainwhat you do clearly maybe make your pricing available so they can make thatpart of the assessment, make it easy to book in with a salesperson right thereare tons of tools out there that enable you to book time with a salespersonyourself on a website. It's not necessary to handle your email addressand have an email exchange with someone that's just being kind of really likebio centric in that process. And from my perspective like from like if mytarget is revenue, I have to care what happens further down the line. So likedemand catcher. Also, it's also like my team's relationship with the Sdrs, howoften we communicate, how aligned we are saying exactly the same stuff withthe sales team. Like all of those things that just kind of like clear apath to becoming a customer all count...

Within that demand capture thing.That's like 101 stuff, right? This is like, oh, it's so hard to do the onecreation bit right, involves so much customer understanding. It involves somuch like tireless effort on getting your proposition, messaging bang on andtesting in channels and working on your creative and all of that stuff to doall of that. And then let an opportunity to have a new client thatyou could help grow their business slip because some of those demand capturechannels or processes were sub optimal, is it's not good. Yeah. And I thinkthat's that's something that you and I talked about offline recently and youhad that experience and I think that's why the customer experience is soimportant. Do you mind sharing what you shared with me about that experienceyou had? Yeah. I mean, this happens, this has happened to me multiple times,Right? And it probably happens to anyone who goes and buys B to beanything. Is one, is this example of, okay, you have two choices when I go tobook a demo on a website. I can even just pick a time right there as as itsuits me. And because the tool will make it so so it suits the salespersonas well. Plus points. If you do some lead scoring in that as well. So thatif I'm like high school for you, I bypassed SDR going straight through toa fantastic or you can get me to fill in a form and then a few days latersomeone gets back to me and maybe we have a meeting like that is just oneexample of an experience which still occurs and then you get into the intothe south process itself. So you've got one where given my role and the companythat I worked for and the fact that I do what I do, like I know when I'm I C.P. For a company when I'm on their website, just right, so if I my C. P.For their website and then I have their their product and I go through theirsales journey. And the first thing that I have to do is to kind of explain tosomeone in a qualifying call, like why I'm almost like why am I good enough tobuy your product? That's not a great buying experience. So I've had it hadexperiences kind of recently either where like I've put in my email addressin a demo form and someone hasn't got back to me, it doesn't make sense. Orwere actually the sales process has been managed in such a different way.You start to start veering towards the cleaner easier process when we checkedthe other day. That might be kind of like the example I gave us if it's abit like this, if you are interested in buying a tv and you knew which one youwanted and you went to the high street, imagine you go to the high street, wentinto a tv shop, you stood in front of the tv you want to buy, you have towait 15 minutes when someone comes up to you to offer that tv to you or helpyou by. Actually they ask you if you've got enough money in your pocket to buyit first and then they go and get someone else is the one that actuallythen runs the process and that you purchase, you're not going to stand bythat T. V. You're gonna get bored and walk off. And that's what happens invita peace health processes. And that's why the one capture is so important.Like that's someone basically with the checkbook halfway out their pocket,kind of interested in what you've got to sell and you made it hard for themto buy your product. It doesn't make...

...sense. So like, I mean, test, we've notgot this perfect right? We're still working on it like this for endlessoptimization on on the on these processes to make them better. Butthat's the intention is basically almost like to create a great prospectexperience because it's a bit of an indicator of what you're maybe we'll myview rightly or wrongly. It starts making me ask questions about whatthey're. Service experience is going to be like if that prospect experiences abit bumpy, that could be completely unfair. But that's the kind of theperception that can create. Hey everybody Logan was sweet fish here. Ifyou're a regular listener of GDP growth, you know that I'm one of the co hostsof the show, but you may not know that. I also head up the sales team here issweet fish. So for those of you in sales or sales ops, I wanted to take asecond to share something that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Ourteam has been using lead I. Q. For the past few months and what used to takeus four hours Gathering contact data. Now takes us only one where 75 moreefficient were able to move faster with outbound prospecting and organizing ourcampaigns is so much easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check outlead I. Q. As well. You can check them out at lead I. Q. Dot com. That's L E AD I. Q dot com. All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah, I love that. Ilove that idea of hey you go to buy a T. V. And it's the same situation. I meanit's it's literally the same thing. You get bored, you get tired of standingthere, you get frustrated and then you're probably not gonna go recommendthat to your friends. You're probably not going to say, hey go to this tvstore. I got great service, They're conceived in it. So that's great. Andclearing that path is so important, like you said, and making it easy tosee the prices making it easy on your website, but not making it so difficult.Your customers shouldn't have to dig for what they're looking for. So,another thing that you and I talked about and this is another question Ihave for you is what are some things that marketers in this space tend toget wrong? And you and I talked a little bit about kind of likeoverthinking organic on linkedin and things like that. Yeah, so organicArlington is a interesting one, is something that I'm like relativelyneurotic in my like personal, like activities. I feel like we're talkingabout it. My little like B two B system Manchin, like echo chambers that existwithin like it's like an answer to lots of problems. But what I'm finding whatwhat my my experience is actually, there's like this and things about itthat could make it really challenging for some businesses, which would notmake it an answer to all your problems. Um and so and and and the kind of thelesson that I've gained so far in this is about it's actually quite hard tohave validity with your target audience. So if I look at the people, they'redoing it really well, they're experts in the thing that they're talking aboutbecause that makes sense right? If you're going to follow someone as athought leader or an influencer, you...

...want to know that they know whatthey're talking about. And so that that initial thing of like if you want touse linkedin organic or whatever kind of organic channels, but that personneeds to be a valid like spokesperson around that topic for me personallylike my target audiences B two C. Marketers were marketers but I actuallydon't have that much validity because my area of expertise not all thatrelevant. And so the things that I can write about and do so with someknowledge to back it up, they're not necessarily things they're going toresonate with the target audience for the company I work for. That makes meeven though I'm in the right department. In theory, I'm not actually a goodspokesperson on organic. Well that like finding that individual or who can dothat is like thing one anything to it's like it's like a real They need to havethe time and inclination which sounds like it should be easy but it's like ahugely time consuming activity to write the content, to engage with people tofollow people commenting on different people's things, like to learn how thealgorithm works to get your head around like time of day. How many times doesit matter if I go into the app like every 15? Because I've become obsessedby how many views my post has got and I've been is that affecting it thingsnegatively looks like it kind of does, but I don't really know, you know,they're like all of these lessons, these are hugely time consuming. Youneed like an expert who's willing to invest like that if you don't have thatwithin your business and like that's entirely possible that you could justnot have that individual, then it's obviously not gonna be the channel foryou just because of practicalities. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think that'ssomething that's really interesting because I think a lot of people are sofocused on like this, you know, we have to be on linkedin and everybody has tobe talking on linkedin and it's something that our company has beendoing lately too. We've been really, all of us have been talking on linkedin,we've been making a lot of posts recently and I think it's been reallygreat for us. But I talked to someone yesterday, we were talking about howthat might not be where your target audience is, which is another thing totouch on two because I mean, if you're, you know, if you're trying to reach meto be, then yeah, I mean they're totally going to be on linkedin, but ifyou're trying to reach like an engineer, there are more likely to be on Redditor or another platform like that. So it's not always the best place and it'snot always the only place, you know? Yeah, exactly, Exactly. Exactly. Andthat comes down to kind of like knowing no, no, your customer and nowhere thereplaying. I mean like, like part of kind of like the job of selecting like ademand creation channel is like who, who are my target audience and where dothey already go on the internet? All right. Let's just go there buildingcommunities. If you can get it right, it's like gold. It's super hot, so mucheasier to participate in a way that's appropriatein a community that already exists. But I think you're right. So if my companysold a B two B marketers gold, right? I would just ask to have like, can I havelike an hour and a half a day to cut...

...out so that I will do this Lincolnthing because he's going to grow our business and now listen, I have theability to have people listen to me because hopefully at least I know somestuff about kind of defeating the margin and that means that I can talkto people kind of like peer to peer. Yeah, I say like if you find that ifyou have that person great and your audience is linked it great. If there'ssomewhere else go somewhere else. But even then you're gonna need, like inthat engineers scenario, the best people to do it would be your engineers.Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about success in demand gen and ademand gen strategy. Sometimes this is a little bit difficult to measure. So Iwanted to ask you, how do you measure success in a demand gen strategy? Andwhat do you think some people tend to get wrong here as well? Yeah, I meanhow ultimate measure of success is inbound source revenue. If that iswhere it needs to be. We're on quite urban, it's almost true that no othermetric that we might track higher up the final matters if revenue, if we'rehitting the revenue number be interpreted. But there's like there ishowever long your sales cycle is between kind of like the capture ofthat lead and hand over into the sales organization and when that revenuematerializes. So you have to have something a bit higher up that you cankind of, uh, you can use as a leading indicator of whether you're gonna hitthat number. So we look at pipeline, pipeline generated, we look at meetingswhere we look at kind of like demo request, essentially, uh, coming in,which is this like great measure of high intent lead. So if someone'scoming to us and saying, hey, can I talk to you about what you have to sell?That is a really good indicator of the demand creation work that we're doingis working. They also convert through the funnel better than anything elsethat we can put through. And then we look at what we, what we call meetingsbook, which is essentially after whoever takes that demo runs that demo,it moves into the next stage was essentially like it's moving into thepipeline. So we have like to kind of numerical targets, like the number ofdemo number of meetings and then we'll have like dollar pipeline. There are,there are a ton of other things that we look at, like town metrics and websitemetrics and all of the rest of it. But those are the four things that I lookat in my Salesforce dashboard. If I'm honest, like multiple times a day,probably more than I should. But those are the ones I really look at becausethose are the things they're like, are we across everything? If I stoppedlooking all the microscopic little bits of data that could send us off down therabbit holes that potentially aren't helpful. Okay. At really high level arewe trending in the right direction? Like if there were requests are goingup, I have a high confidence that means pipeline and revenue will go up becausebecause it has such a kind of strong influence on the on those numbers. Sothose are the ones we look at as like the the the overarching kind ofmeasures of success or like indicators...

...of success and then there's just a pileof other metrics that we look at which are more like are these channelsworking as expected? That's great. What are some specific tools or maybe advicethat you would share with somebody who is implementing demand generation intotheir organization for maybe the first time? You know, maybe there are newbusiness, maybe there are very, very small startup business um with not alot of people on their team and they need to implement these demand genstrategies. Um what's something that you would recommend or some advice thatyou would share? Yeah, I tell you don't actually need that many tools that youneed. You need a Crm. If you haven't got one ready right, you need some kindof crm to be managing a sales process you need. So I'd say you need somemechanism to send emails that is connected to that Crm and I wouldstrongly recommend you keep talking about it is like make it easy forsomeone to book a meeting with the sales team if you've managed to createinbound demand and like have analytics on your website and all that kind ofstuff. But once you've got passed out, like another tool, like it's not thenext thing that I would do, Like I wouldn't then go, alright, yeah, weneed a lead scoring framework. So they were like, you've got some other thingsthat a bit more foundational that you need to do. So then point you kind of,rather than looking at another tool, you need to think about like what areyou going to communicate into the market and to know what to communicateinto the market. You need to know who you're gonna communicate it to and youkind of need to understand a bit about that day. So actually then like thenext stage in demand generation actually looks a bit like some productmarketing fundamentals because that is the groundwork that makes the actualdemand generation things that you might see when you're out into the channelswork better and then you've got this kind of like the prospect experiencestuff that was talking about. So it's like if you, if seriously, if you'rethat early and you should be working out how you can like white glove, anykind of lead that's coming through through the Orig and give them a reallygood experience right through to customer experience because they're soprecious When, you know, when you've got, when you've got less than 10clients like and any another one, it's amazing. The 10% uplift, brilliant. Um,so like, so that's almost like the things just like make sure that engineis clean, which is kind of somewhat relationships, it won't be much went,there might be much in the way of tech because if, if you are in that stateand the volume is fairly life. But I I guess what I would stress is you canpile tech upon tech upon tech upon tech and it's not actually going to make thedemand gen activities work better like oven in itself. It's like there aresome just pure marketing fundamentals that will make it work better likehaving great messaging and having some really good creative that you've testedand you know resonates will have a much bigger impact than buying in someplatform that does something that sounds cool, totally agree, that'sawesome. Andy this has been wonderful,...

...thank you so much for coming on GDPgrowth and sharing with our audience. I know this has been really insightfulfor me, my career moving forward and hopefully our listeners games and valueas well. Where can people find you online if they are interested inhearing more from you Lincoln Lincoln is the best place. There are a lot ofAndy Davis is on Lincoln but there's only one Andy Davis that works thatattest to search for Andy Davis the test your friend. Perfect. Thank you again so much forjoining me here on B2B growth. No, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. One of the things we've learned aboutpodcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, reallywell actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if you texted afriend to tell them about it. And if you send me a text with a screenshot ofthe text you sent to your friend meta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book,content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you wantto know. My cell phone number is 40749033 to 8. Happy Texting. Yeah,.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1609)