B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2080 · 4 months ago

The Real (Not So Easy) Path to Thought Leadership on LinkedIn with Dale Dupree

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Dale Dupree who is the founder and CEO of the Sales Rebellion about his journey in becoming a thought leader on LinkedIn.


They cover Dales journey, his steps to building community and the elements of his brand messaging that put him on the trajectory he's on today.

Yeah, welcome back to be, to be growth. I'mdan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and today I'm here with dale Dupri, who isthe founder and ceo of the sales rebellion and I have to say dale,welcome back, Welcome back to the show. Thanks dad. I appreciate having me out.It was cool when I got on here because we had this like reunion of sorts, butit's the first time that we've ever met. So it was, it was pretty fun. The powerof linkedin, which is the topic that we're gonna be covering today. As youknow, we've been on this month long deep dive into thought leadership andI've said it so many times in so many interviews now that's kind of like, wow,this is a month, a month is a long deep dive. But I've been especially excitedabout this episode because I love linkedin and if you're listening tothis, hopefully you love Lincoln too because fearing to B two B marketing,you're not on linkedin. I don't I don't know what you're doing, this is this iswhere it's happening, this is where the sales is going on, this is where themarketing and the influence is really happening a lot. I'm excited to talk todale because while I've had a lot of success on linkedin over the last year,sometimes it's fun to talk to somebody who's been at it longer than you. Andso I've been going hard at linkedin. I've grown some, I've learned somethings, I'm I'm probably not like a baby or a toddler when it comes tofiguring out a good rhythm with Lincoln and how to get the most out of theplatform. So, it's going to be fun for me personally to figure out how to growthought leadership on linkedin specifically with Dale to pre, who'sbeen doing it for Quite a few years now and it has an audience of what I thinkit's a 50, followers now. Like, it's it's substantial. And you've grown evenmore in the last couple of months. It's really picked up some steam here and Isee your post all the time. They're they're long, they're weighty, they'reoften very fun and and story driven and so I can't wait to kind of pick yourbrain on the world of Lincoln and specifically how to become a thoughtlater on linkedin. I will say that part of the reason why I even wanted to dothis interview specifically is because I actually googled how to become athought leader on linkedin. And I was telling dale before, before I tapped torecord that the top article for how to become a thought leader on linkedin isfrom hubspot, I won't say the author, but this these are like, it's, whatdoes it say? It's a nine easy steps to become a thought leader on linkedin.I'm like, one, it's never easy, but these are the steps optimize yourlinked in profile so that your industry can find you, it's uh, use skillsendorsements and recommendations to validate your expertise, connect withother experts. And I'm like, and then the list just goes on and on with like,really trite information, you're like, great, so do all the stuff everybodydoes when they sign up for linkedin. I don't think so, how is this the rankingarticle for this? It's not it's not anything good. So, I'm like, today,we're going to put out some stuff that's a little bit more meaty, alittle bit more juicy from someone who's actually been there and done it.And I can't wait to kind of like, even go a little bit deeper and ask thingsfrom, as somebody who's, who's done kind of the basics already have gottenin the rhythm of it and kind of pick it apart and get some more advancedtechniques than a get some endorsements. So dale, if somebody approached you andsaid like, dude, love what you're doing on linkedin, um I kind of havesomething going, I've been posting some content here and they're like, what aresome of the things I need to do to get started? Or are there questions Ishould be asking myself if I want to kind of grow a following on linkedinand kind of become a thought leader, Not that I would ever call myself that,but, you know, that's, that's kind of their aim with uh, building an audienceon linkedin. What should they be doing? One of the first things to mentionedand recommend is detachment from the, from the outcome of what they're aboutto enter into. Because I hear so many people say things like I really want togain a following on the social media website and and build a brand on thesocial media website. And I think when when we say things like that out loud,it's great to proclaim like this is something that we want, but I think weput a lot of pressure on ourselves in those moments and we typically causeourselves to collapse in them as well too. There's way too many stories ofburnout and during the process of building a personal brand or a socialpresence in entrepreneurs or or just individuals in general, that thatwouldn't want that label either. Right. The problem with that is that there'shundreds of thousands, if not millions, of those stories and and and the thebig issue is that everybody is looking for this. Like how do I get rich quick?What do I do? I just do a bunch of click funnels that have 99 centpurchases of digital assets until like someone spends a million bucks, youknow, what do I do? Do I get on social media and go viral? And suddenly I'm,I'm this big famous thing and everybody wants to be, you know, in my, in mycircle and they'll buy from me then, right? No, I do. It just grind grindgrind. Oh man, James. Hopefully James last night. That's a, that's a common.I love, I love Gary V, but that's how...

...people take Gary v. Sometimes it isright? It is. And that's the problem. It's this like fake hustle culture thatthat somehow like just going as hard as you can for as many hours as possiblewith these elaborate strategies in mind, somehow we'll make you ultra famous orultra successful on these platforms. Well, here's the problem dan alreadypointed it out is that a lot of these ultra elaborate schemes to betteringyour linkedin presents are nine of the most dumbed down, you know, watereddown concepts like build a profile. That's in my list of things like that.That's a like literal have that. That if you don't, you can't be on linked inany way, right? You can't be on twitter anyway. You can't can't have anypresence if you don't build your profile, right? That's so, that'sinsane, right? And the email you used to sign up doesn't matter that muchguys because you can change it at any point. So why are we giving advice likethis? But the advice we should be given is that when the copier warrior said,you know what, I'm going to post on linkedin every day because he wassitting with James Carberry and a restaurant trying to figure out thenext steps of his life because he had literally just come out of a veryintense 90 days that changed everything for me and, and we didn't sit there andgo, okay, what are the best strategies for posting on Lincoln? I justrecognized? And, and, and he encouraged this in me that I had something on theplatform. And then if I, if I leaned into it instead of and embraced itinstead of just kind of doing, going through the motions of it and put verysmall habits around that concept, such as every morning at 5:30 a.m. I'm goingto I'm going to get on social because I wake up about 4 30 About an hourearlier in that in between 4:35. So I'm gonna do my morning routine. I'm gonnahead over to my phone about 30 minutes to an hour into being awake and I'mgoing to post content. I'm gonna do that every day. There was no massivelike this many comments and and do this. It was just going to go on gonna post.And eventually that turned into a community effort as well too. Because Iwould go on, I would post and I would head to these 40 people pages and Iwould read their latest post and I would comment on it, Right. And thatwas my literal strategy. And I never once said I want to have 60,000followers by the year 2021. I never said that instead. I just said I'mgonna be raw, I'm gonna be real. I'm gonna be me, I'm gonna be a rebel. I'mgoing to develop a brand through authenticity for this genuine effect.I'm not gonna do it to get rich quick. I'm not gonna do it to go viral. I'mnot gonna do it for some like strategic narrative instead, I'm going to do itbecause it's authentic. I'm gonna do it because it's the real dale. I'm gonnado it because it's everything that a community that might be out theresearching for is looking to find and I am the answers to those things. If I amdale, if I am myself, no strategy can create anything around that unlessyou're the church of scientology, right? Unless you're like creating some kindof cult and and then from creating some kind of cult then yeah, there are someindoctrination strategies. You could definitely chill on, you know, to helpwith that process. But humans are attracted to familiarity to audacity tothis change agent, this thing that's not uh like I like this but it feelsdifferent like this feels like something I would do, but it feelsdifferent like that's what people are looking for, right? And most of us haveit in us naturally and it's not a play because of that. Nobody can fake thatkind of activity. Nobody can fake that kind of attribute. Right? So that be mybest advice for people getting started. Would you say that the proper mentalityfor actually becoming a thought leader is actually not approaching it for youwanting to be the leader, but for you to help the most people, I would say itlike this, I love that thought break it, I would break that out even like evenfurther, I would say when I am done with with this thing, whether that'sthought leadership or not, when I'm done with Lincoln, what do I want tohave gained from it? And when I sit there and I reverseengineer an outcome. So for me this is literally what I said. I believe that there's a silentmajority of people just like me and that they inhabit a place like linkedinbecause it's a B two B space and I sell copiers. And I said, and I bet thatthat people, I bet sometimes people sit in their car and and as uh £230 malewith a beard that's white, sit and sit in his car and one just like mesomewhere else. They're out in the world and maybe their colors, differentethnicities, different sexes different. But somebody that can identify with meAs the guy that sits in his car after 25 nose and just breaks down and crieslike a little baby because that's a natural emotion and it's a, it's astate that we put ourselves in by going...

...out there and trying to build thisoutcome that were desiring to get in the first place, this legacy that we'retrying to leave. I bet there are people out there that aren't flipping through$100 bills on instagram all the time, that some days they don't have those$100 bills Because the commission ran out and it's dried up and nobody'sbuying right that because, I struggled with addiction for a few months therewhen I was making $5,000 a day with my sales. That that I put myself into abad position and now I have now I have a habit that I can't break, that Istruggle with depression and that I've been suicidal out in the field, makingcalls, going through the daily grind, getting yelled at by my boss, being inall these terrible situations that I'm putting myself in in most cases likethe constant rejection of sales. And I literally sat there and said, I believethat that exists outside of myself and there's not a voice for those people. Ilooked everywhere for that voice and the only way I ever found it was to myfather and through my six mentors ever, right in my own backyard. Alright, evenmy silent mentors that were authors or, or big names like they were not talkingabout these issues. And so boom there. That's my literal expectation ofgetting elected, finding some of those people and giving them an outlet ortheir own voice was my thought process will look at me now Dude, I mean Istarted a company two years ago because of, of the traction I created onlinkedin and I'm able to train sales people all over the world. And sothought leadership cool. Like I'm flattered that you think I'm a thoughtleader bro, I truly am one of those things that people can say about, youcan't say about yourself, right? Yes, so, but what I've been aiming to do andwhat I've been trying to do and what I've wanted to do this whole time is tobe a servant leader is to give the people that are listening, the abilityto identify and say yes dale, let's go dale, let's change this thing downbecause that's the only way that we create, the kind of outcome that wedesire in the first place is by igniting a little spark that turns intoa flame that burns the world. And the best way to do that is to going back toyour original statement of serving others and, and building that trustwith people. Yes, like in my mind, I thought on a very macro and micro level,but I don't just want to say that I want to serve these particularindividual people that exist out there and I want to serve the people thatknow those people exist and want to support them just the same, but don'tnecessarily struggle with those things. And, and, and so I branched out, youknow, from that, from that literal, very defined, uh, ideal person that Iwanted to speak to write, I found my niche, I found my target and I createdit and I said in my head, how can I serve these people? 100% my reasoningand logic. So I mean I'm always trying to break things down to the more in thesmaller bite sized steps. So there's a lot of things you just said. So let mesee if I can kind of recap kind of what happened there. Concisely essentially,you did have a mentality, you said that you wanted to be a servant leader, youwanted to seek to serve, I think where the words you used and then you had toidentify a group of people. It helps if those people are like you right,because you can identify with them, you're gonna have stories, you canshare with them that there, you're gonna be able to share yourself andthey're gonna be like, oh my gosh, I've felt that exactly same thing I've beenin the exact same moment. I've literally cried in my car. So it helpsif you can obviously have been through what they've been through and you youessentially found and kind of rounded up the problems that they had and theyweren't general problems, they were problems that weren't being addressed.And then you essentially found ways to serve. So when you think about helpingthem and serving them, you mentioned if you already, but how do you help them?Like what do you do? So creating that community to me is like the biggest actof service. So for people out there that want to start a company and theywant to start a business, so they want to build a brand for themselves, even they have to recognize that like one ofthe best things that they can do for that, that level of success thatthey're trying to achieve for themselves is to entrust it into othersand recognize that it's it's people that build that for you, like you youdon't get rich because you went out and made a bunch of money, You got richbecause people gave it to you. That's I always say that so many people hate itwhen I say that too, because it contradicts so much of what the worldwould tell you, right, that your hard work, sure it is based your efforts,your fruit is based on your hard work and it makes it a difference. And inregards to like how hard you're working compared to how hard you're not right,or the other guy that's competing with you and vice versa, right? But at thesame time to it is up to those people and how they perceive you and it is theaction of those people involving themselves into what it is that you'redoing, that creates that success. So if...

...you're going around working 100 hours aweek, but you're a scumbag And you're literally just trying to do this to geta ton of people signed up for your thing to pay 99, a month. Because thatthat's all the desires your dollar and that they know in two years, if theyget up to 10,000 people in that they're a millionaire and then they can dowhatever they want, right? If that's your that's your outlook. If that'syour goal, like, you're gonna fail, either you're going to fail, get intothat success or you're going to fail in that success, because I'm not going tosay that it doesn't work, right? Plenty of there's plenty of people out therethat I look at their wealth and I look at their success and my cat, I wouldnever do any of these things. I would never support you because I see exactlywhat you've done and what you're doing. The women that, that you've harmed themen that you've harmed right in relationships. I see your reputation. Isee what you do. I see what it is, right? So there has to be this veryconscious effort toward the concept of those people that you're trying toserve. Who are they? Why do you want to serve them and then build around themsomething that they can buy into, something they can live in somethingthey can enjoy that doesn't end up in them being like, man, you turned into adick, excuse my french. Right? Like I thought you were better than this. Ithought you were different when I bought into you. But look at you nowlike, I don't like this. I don't like what I see here, right? Like why do wedo that so often? Especially in the thought leader culture, it's veryprevalent, right? So so I just to take it a step further, you know it's it'sthat thought that big wide net that you've got to think about right andnarrowing and casting that wide net, narrowing it down to the people thatyou want to serve that can come into your community that can help build italongside you. What are some jerk moves that thought leaders make, they're just grained on you man. There's like the part of thesuccess there so specific that people are going to know who I'm talking about.Let's just take let's say this for example somebody makes a ton of moneythrough a successful idea and then and then we idolize them. Okay so westarted saying oh my God look what this guy did this. His advice is so or heradvice is so valuable, we have to listen to everything they say on thistopic. Well, meanwhile they made the money off of you, not your audiencethat you're trying to sell to. They made it off at you and the group ofpeople that you hang around with and that you identify as right, So andthere and then they're coming to you and selling you. Oh, but because I didthat, I know how to speak to your audience, eat my shorts, kevin. That isa lot of guys sure there might be some basic look at me in front of my Ferrariin my garage. Yeah, I remember that guy is ty Lopez. That's what it is. A hugepiece. Ty Lopez, Russell Branson. I mean there's a bunch of them, right?There's a bunch of them. So it's to me it's just this, this identity, theiridentity is that they're this wealthy thing. But like the sucker is theperson that's watching them thinking that somehow they're wealthy trulybecause there is no legacy and money. There's only legacy and actions,there's only legacy and the experiences that we've provided and what we'vehelped other people built in the name of bettering the community, not in thename of like fast cars, lots of sex, all the things that the earth offers usin the first place, this world offers us what really creates value and leaveslegacies is the way that when people remember you, what they remember, didyou take advantage of me or did you help me? Right, that's literally thethought process. So most that leaders suck at that. So when you talk aboutbuilding community, like what are some elements of community and how is itdifferent than building an audience? I think community is a little bit more,They're in charge, they're they're more involved because of that. They're incharge, they're the they're the thought leader, really, you do as they say, isthe bigger picture perspective, right? When you have a community an audience,you can do the same thing with, right? But like, you're kind of taking aconsensus with an audience with a community, like they're taking actionto, you know, for example, your we're about to launch a product and we'regoing to our community and saying we want this to come from your mouth, we already know that people will listento us and they'll watch what we say, but we believe that your value is muchmightier and and we entrust that within ourcommunity and we give it to them and we enable them through that process.Community also like creates subcultures, audiences are are typically justaudiences like they're a fan of your thing. Community can create subcultureslike inside of the rebellion, there's a group of people that love to barbecueand they're either students or they're just people that are brought into theculture. But they get together, we have, you know, a slack channel and theybanter now and then talk about this, talk about that and they're like theirown little private thing. There's not a lot of a minute either, right? But it's,it's fun to see, right? There's like the coffee culture people, there'sright? There's there's all these little subcultures that can be created thatalso people identify with you and your...

...thing, but then they identify you witheverything to an extent and you become part of their ecosystem in thosemoments. You know, it do truly like this is why colts are createdcommunities turned into that, right? But we believe in a healthier mindsetaround this that buy into us and our ideas. That's what we're asking forsure. But we want you to bring your ideas to it. We want you to say, yeah,there's some gaps here, guys and let me tell you what they are so that we canhere and we can get better and we can learn from you at the same time as welltoo. That's a difference. Like we're not, we're not trying to manipulate anaudience. We're trying to enable a community and do it and doing itthrough their own actions, their own worth makes a lot of sense to find alot of thought leaders. What they really want is like a an audience, youknow, someone that is just listening to their every word, but I'm like, thereal way to be truly influential is to go and help a lot of people serve themand then help connect all the people that do end up following you becauseyou've helped so many people, Right? That's this kind of natural. Um butthen connecting them to each other because they can actually helpthemselves more than you can help them sometimes. Right, They can give morespecific feedback. They can have great conversations. I mean, James has beendoing this with a couple of groups where he'll take, you know, VPs andmarketing and just help them help each other. But it's in those small, littlemicro communities as you were talking about those little niche one offs thatare part of a broader community, but our small groups that can talk to eachother and actually actually help, how do you find those forms? Do you have,Like, do they connect to you through your website? Do you ask people to joinyou on your slack communities? Like how are you building community and pullingthem from Lincoln to build more community in a in a digital world. It's,you know, it's slack, it's discord. It's all the popular communities thatare out there. Like, if you think back to Anybody that's listening to thisthat was born in 1985 to 1990, or maybe even like, 1980s and 1990s can relate.And that at some point, you were on a message board and you met a bunch ofpeople on that message board on the internet, and you built somethingpretty strong with those people. Matter of fact, This coming Thursday, a guy Imet on a message board who have had a friendship with since, like, touring inmy band days, like, back when I was 18, it's coming to town with his familywere hanging out right? Like we made friends that way back there. Likethere's a generation of us that like nose how to connect through virtualmediums for sure because of that. Like you see something like slack orfacebook groups or discord and you think to yourself like, oh, I can getbehind that, I can do that. That'll work because you're used to it already.There's a whole group of people that don't understand it. And the thing isis that it's it's own like living breathing ecosystem. So when you, whenyou invite people to come into your community, you don't just set up 80freaking channels and say, all right, everybody go talk this talk that youset up four and you say like this one's for advice, this one's for networking.This one's for like your niche, Like prospecting is created, prospecting oneof our niches. This is for banter any general thing you want to say, lament.Talk about headed here, right? Be specific to those four categories andyou'll have people coming out the woodworks, like in the right places,asking questions, getting involved, speaking, throwing ideas down, meetingother people, deeming them right. Even through the process of like reading andlearning a little bit about them. Like dang. I got to get in touch with thisperson. This is awesome. So the way that we do it is that we encourage, weencourage rebels to be rebels. Like our hashtag like rise rebels or ready uprebels. One of my first hashtags that ever usedis the idea of like giving people their own identity and voice. Like ouropening our slack channel is the best thing that we ever did. So we had aprivate slack channels, just the company and we took the literal company,private slack channel. We opened the four rooms up renamed him essentially,you know what they are now. And of course we have a, we have two channelsthat are still private to people like our winds channel are gone channel andthen our, just our coach this channel so that they can still communicate onthe back end with us and we don't have to switch over to text or anything likethat. Right? So like you can, you can use a Platform like slack to duel,engage, engage your company internally and then engage your community as welltoo. So we're sitting at like seven, almost 800 strong in the slack withoutlike advertising it bro, you know, just literally telling people through acouple of posts and typically just in comments in our content that hey, areslack channels open if you want to come chill And we have a mass 700 pluspeople in it in the course of just a couple of months. And and again, Ithink that that's that shows you also what a community desires. They wanttheir voice to be heard. They want more engagement with you than just the onepost you to put on Lincoln. They want...

...to hear your voice, right? Because alot of times they think like, oh, this content is good, but what's this guylike anytime I meet somebody, I'm always flattered when they're like,yeah, I just want to tell you, you're exactly like you are on the internetand I'm really excited about that. That makes my heart full because that's Idon't do this for some kind of celebrity status. I do this to seeother people succeed and I bring who I am every day. And my story is myauthenticity, my vulnerability because I want to see people become better. Sofor me this isn't a game either. And that's what that leaders in general,Miss this isn't a game. I'm not playing some kind of game. I'm living this out.This is a lifestyle, rebellion is not just a word, it's not just a phrase andit's not not fleeting, it's something that's here to stay because otherpeople will adopt the mindset and they will they will engage through communityefforts and that will carry the legacy on past my lifetime, josh. What do youthink is the most irritating thing for B. Two B buyers right now? Man Logan, Ilove talking to you about this. You know That the number one challengeright now is that many customer facing teams in the B two B. Space right noware forcing their potential buyers too by the way that they want to sell,buyers don't want to buy that way. Right now. They want to by the way theywant to buy. We need to enable those buyers, we call this buyer enablementat sales reach. We need to enable those buyers to make better decisions quickerin a comfortable environment that's more personalized for them to moveforward with that process. Dude, that's awesome. I couldn't agree more sinceI've been using sales reach in my own sales process. It's allowed me toreally enable the buyer to move more quickly in really two ways. One theydon't have to download a bunch of attachments. I can send them to onepage with the proposal case studies different resources because let's faceit, the proposal is just one part of the sales conversation and probablyonly one sales enablement piece of content that you're sending. So itmakes it easier on them. And then the other thing is, you know, we're sellingto our champions and then we're making them have to re give our pitch to theentire buying committee. So one thing I do is put a Custom 2-3 min video on thetop of my sales reach page that says, hey, here's all the resources, tie itback to the conversation. Here's the proposal. Let me know if you have anyquestions and it allows me to give a little bit of kind of a mini pitch tothe rest of the buying committee, introduce myself, which helps me buildtrust and credibility and helps the buyer not have to repeat the entirepitch from scratch. So if anybody is looking to do the same thing in theirown sales process, I'd highly suggest they reach out to you and the team overat sales, reach for anybody listening, just go to sales reach dot io to talkto josh and the team, it's fantastic. Thought about community and bringingthem together. They want to hear your voice. They want to connect with others.Ultimately, because you have a shared sense of the problem, right? You canempathize with them, they can empathize with each other and then help eachother overcome those problems. One of the important things you said earlierthat I think we want to want to circle back around to is around messaging,right? I do find that there's a lot of people and me, even myself, I likemessaging is not easy. Like trying to have a focused message is not an easytask. I'm a marketing general. So I talk about a lot of things marketingmost people know me for podcasting because of sweet fish media. Um I'vebeen talking about a lot about thought leadership recently, so I'm starting tobecome a little bit more well known for that, but when you say messaging, likewhat is all of that entail? Like what are the different elements of messagingthat are important to you and the sales rebellion that you've made, messagingis so important, right, Jeff and I are really getting deep my business partnerinto this whole concept, even at this point we're a couple years in, right?But we've we've always thought sat back and thought about like the brand, theoverall brand that people see like what are people experiencing? Like whatwhat's happening that that's like for somebody when I read something that'simpacting them on a totally different level than we're used to, how are weaccomplishing those things? We're not doing it by just like saying stuff thatwe like we're doing it by providing an intrinsic value through those words,through that that messaging through that identity. And so like we look atit as like relics almost like inside of the organization, right? And reallythat's what they are. They're these relics that we have. So for example,like our book and in our Refuge app, which is about to release their goingto be our to us are going to be the two cornerstones of that whole process forus in general, just like where people can get super involved with our relicswith our our legend, even like the things that we're creating at afoundational stance. So like the copier warrior copy of warriors, the originalrebel, right? So you have the copier warrior, he creates this idea of arebellion and then he dies. That's like what we've played out in our head, hedies and what comes from him is me, who you see today dale, the leader of thesales rebellion. But this idea too is...

...that like Dale doesn't exist anymore,right period because he died with the copier warrior and we've handed thebaton off to people, right, people that come and join the rebellion to becomerebels. So there's a video on our website or on our Youtube channel thatwhen you get there, welcomes you and it says it's me talking. And I said, Inever thought that the things that I did as a sales rep would be more thanjust something that that would change the trajectory of my success, but thatcould be adopted by sellers everywhere to change the trajectory of theirindividual success. And we basically at the end of it, we have this this signoff of me taking my hat off my copy warrior had off and everyone elseputting it on over and over again. And so for us like we've created this image,this vision, this, this brand, this thing, these relics that you see, weuse a lot of different terminology and the weather. We phrase things right. Weput change the game as a hashtag and everything. We call our pipeline system,a living pipeline. We call our pitch concepts and theories, reason we callour our our sales process and and framework the rebel invasion. Wecreated all these things that are very, they're identifiable. They're fun, theyhave a branch, then they have a glow, their relics right? And its language iswhat it is. It's like people start saying things like I want to be alegend, I want to choose legendary, I want to climb my mountaintop. I want tobecome something that people will remember and passed down for years as awarrior inside of the sales world. Like when, when people see our stuff andthey hear the way that we presented, they become a part of that wholeprocess alongside of us. Dude, we hear him say it all the time to write, wehear, we hear them in our coaching calls, we see it in their content, we,we watch it come out and like and that's it is that we tapped into evenwith the way that we are positioning are our own language that we've created.You know, in this by in concept of what intrinsically motivates somebody. It'seasy for them to adapt to it and adopt it because they already believe it.Most people do. They just haven't been given permission by anybody to say itand to have it as a brand. That is just a thought. But now it's a visual rightnow, it's a movement and and really, that's our take on it as anorganization. We are constantly trying to figure out how to go deeper intothat. So, like I was saying, with a book and Refuge, we've started doingthat. The Rebel Refuge is a place to come and find comfort. It's a place toget away from the monotony and and gamify your sales walk. It's a place toget away from the stale boring nous of sitting around and doing typical salesoutreach every day and get a daily challenge that makes you do somethingoutside of your comfort zone. Right? So, we're doing that in the way that we'reproviding product to people, even, you know, as we evolve the organization,but everything we're trying to seep in in every little way and everything thatwe do, and in the way that somebody thinks about the rebellion and thinksabout their own sales walk, there's so many different layers, two goodmessaging, right? And so many of them just came, came out as you were talking.And I love it because you're so passionate about it. And I used to readyour stuff thinking that it was over exaggerated, but it's not really overexaggerated. If you if you were here with me and felt the intensity of dale,maybe you can hear it in the audio, but I could certainly see it in the uh,hear it and see it with my own eyes. The details just kind of an intense guy.Like Dale's authentic, like he said like as authentic on video and live uh,in a conversation as he is in his, his crazy what seems like over the topLincoln post. Um, but some of the things I picked up and all of that isthat one like the messaging really stems from a lot of things. There'salmost like a foundation in there and your foundation is one, you know whoyou're talking to, you know what their problems are. You have a mission aroundthose problems and you have a story of why you care about those because it'syour story. It's your, they were your problems and around that comes yourbeliefs. You have a lot of beliefs and you share a lot of them individually onlinked in all the time. In different ways. Like the belief of being aservant leader is a better way to be, to do, to do sales, right. And thenaround that comes the language. And you said a few things that you called themrelics. I've heard, um, in a book I read called Primal branded. He calls itsacred words. Everybody has sacred words like, remember I think you wereeven borrowing some from like pop culture. I think you say like this isthe way right, very Mandalorian, but at the same time it's kind of like your,your brand is very, I don't know, it's almost has a, has a video game flavorto it. It has like, um, I don't know, it's just really fun. I don't know howelse to like call it. It feels like like a 1980s video games sometimes. AndI, I dig that. I love that kind of like game culture. Like um, gosh, what wasthat movie ready player one kind of feeling right, super fun. But likebaking in and almost stealing some language from some places you make upsome of your own that kind of dresses it up. It makes it more fun and you canpack a lot more meaning into your message, right? So when you say be aservant leader, be a legend, it's not just the words like the words havemeaning to it because you've been,...

...you've been saying stories that arebuilt around your mission which are built around your story, which are allall come back to the problem and the audience that you're talking to. Sowhen you say be a legend, it packs a punch, right? It has meaning to it thatgoes beyond uh just the words themselves, which is just so much funto see. And it's been fun to see. You kind of like flush this out over timeand I know you guys have more yet to come. I know you're probably working onthat with your business partner to even make it more sharp. Let's dive intosome tactics. You are, you post a lot on linkedin. And it's funny because Iused, I take seasons of waking up at 4 30 in the morning and I know if I wakeup 30 in the morning and you're, I think you're, are you East coast? Yeah, so like, like I get up freakingearly at 4 30 in the morning and I hit it sometimes at 4 45 start posting onlinkedin and generally like dale dale has already beat me there. Sometimes Ibeat him there to some of these messes, like forums we've been in, where welike share posts and stuff, but like hardly a day went by when like I wasgetting ahead of dale. Usually he was posting ahead of me and it alreadystarted his day way ahead of mind. I'm like, uh, it was always kind of a gamefor me, but let's dive into some of the tactics, what do you think is workingwell on linkedin now that maybe didn't, didn't work? Um, or that's just knewlike, what do you, what do you paying attention to right now on linkedin?Yeah. What I've, what I've been noticing is that it's these smallthings, right? What I started to lean into is like, why do people get bannedfrom London? There's a lot of people getting like band or, or having thingsdisabled. Yes. Like I've been saying that happened constantly. Um, you know,a post getting taken down or, and, and a lot of that, you know, is fueled by,um, you know, people reporting things right? But for the most part, a lot ofthe stuff I was saying, I started wondering myself, like, what'shappening here? Matter of fact, I had a person hit me up and say, you're reallygood at linkedin is literally what they said. They called me and said that.They said, why do you think I just got banned from it? And I said, well, tellme what your activity has been like recently, Did you post on something?And, and he told me that he had been viewing a ton of people's profiles, butnot sending connection requests and then they banned. It's weird and it'sgoing to be more like taking things like the requested, they banned you orsomething, what's what's going on? Right. Exactly what my thought was,right. So, but, and he was sending connection requests to, Right? So Imarried the two together to an extent as well too. I came up with a couple ofiterations, but I started to think if linkedin pays attention to what orwhere I should say I I honed into was like, where does Lincoln look fornegative things they don't want happening? And where do we hear thebuzz around those things and like what are they? And and that's helped me toreally understand the living algorithm a little bit better because I believeLincoln has the first living algorithm ecosystem and we're learning that as B two B content creators, becauselike B2B content isn't something that five years ago you were out looking for period, But I mean, anybody that canthink back to 2016, like books, you read books? Yeah, I read books, right,but now it's like, do you go on linkedin to learn everything youpossibly can, literally, that's where it's so much so that the platform hascome a long way. So in my mind, I think the platform, one of the biggest thingsthat they want is they want, if you're out looking at a bunch of people'sprofiles, you're probably a robot and they don't like that, right? You'reprobably you're probably a lurker and and it's okay to be a lurker to anextent, like the feed, but you're probably a lurker in the way that like,you could be scraping data off of those, those pages and never interacting withthem and taking it outside of linkedin. So I started thinking about all theselittle things, right? And and so what I started to do was different habits. Sofor example, I usually get like 15 to 20,000 views of my profile for like the90 day period or whatever it is that they do For one month or whatever it is.And so I usually get about 15,000 and my average like 15 and 20 is where Iusually land. And that number started dropping when the algorithm change tolike four or 5000 literally. Well over the course of the last six months I'vegot it back up 15-20000 and I've done that by saying like, well what was it,what was I not doing to make like the algorithm can't just change andsuddenly I can't be found anymore. There's got to be something else that'sgoing on here. And so I started thinking about all the things thatpeople are doing wrong, that they don't like. And I started to say to myself,okay, so what if I went to somebody's profile and I messaged them So Istarted I literally started doing that. I started going to 20 profiles a dayand that I was connected to and just saying, Hey What's up? Literally if I had some good stuff tosay I would too, but have no pitches. Just a quick like look uh looking ontheir profile, seeing a couple things,...

...hey, what's up? We've been connectedfor awhile, never message you. Or maybe I had a string of messages already AndI just kind of kept the conversation going and I started doing that everymorning, just like 20 people will. Now, it's like super habitual and I probablysend like per week like 500 to 1000 messages. And now the part that sucksabout that is that right now I probably have 2000 messages I need to respond toliterally because of that activity. But algorithm has literally been conqueredby me again, you know, from the perspective of like what they wantedper se. So like engaging with so it doesn't have to be random people likeyou if you don't have 55,000 connections, well I only have 15 direct,the rest are followers, But if you don't have 15,000 direct connectionsAnd you only have 500 go chat with them making a cadence, like be involved withthem on on on linkedin and that will help Lincoln will reward you for thosethings, I guarantee it and then get into their activity, feeding height.Yeah, exactly. That's really interesting. So you're taking it downto the D. M. Level now? I used to I definitely paid attentions, I found outthat like if you want people to see your content then go to other people'scontent and leave a comment, chances are because they're probably gonnareply to you, link to is gonna be like, oh dan. And so and so we got a littlesomething they're having a conversation, maybe I should show dan's posted thatperson, right? And the more people you can get to see your post and it createsa rhythm, it kind of sends a signal to the algorithm that more people shouldbe seeing your content. So you don't go out there and just be like, oh nice,nice post. Nice post. Nice post. It's not like you want to scam the system,you want to leave meaningful content. I try to I go onto my feet and just tryto help as many people as I can, either by encouragement, encouraging them,giving my two cents, leaving something helpful, like critiquing something,even like pushing back on something they say sometimes um that's realcontent, but it used to be the way I used to pump the algorithm, I noticedthat doesn't work as well anymore. Like leaving comments on other people'sposts doesn't have the same effect as it used to. So it's interesting you'vetaken it to dems and that seems to be taking it to the next level. Are youstill leaving a lot of comments on people's posts? I would tell people that are commentingnot to every day shows up in somebody news comments. So like you probablyonly see me in your comments once every other week right now. And that's aliteral strategy because if I'm showing up in your comments every day, I might,I might tell the algorithm something incorrect, right? I might say like, ohdale needs to be paired with dan all the time, right? When that might chokeme from other people. So, but if I'm with dan twice a month right, then it'sgonna look at that that activity differently now, I'll like content,I'll go I kind of like like some people's stuff here and there that I'vealready left a comment for, But every day I try to be in 25-50 differentpeople's content and and sometimes I try to do second connections on purpose,3rd Degree connections on purpose to just open the algorithm up formyself. Biggest problem is I'm not, I don't have enough followers to postcontent, so I've had to go out and like Find people because like literally Ican get to the end of my content stream and in the course of like 30-45 minutes,right? Which is a crazy thought because I should be seeing tons of secondconnection content and whatnot. But I remember I only have assert a verysmall amount of first connections, I have a lot of followers, right? So andLincoln doesn't necessarily give you your followers content. It does, I'veseen that it does that from time to time, but it doesn't the other side ofit to dan that I would say like so like leave your comment but like don't justsay like yo that was tight. Sometimes I will say that I'm not going to lie, butlike make a conscious decision to say youtalked about like saying something audacious or riling people up a littlebit and I love that theory. But like what I would truly tell people to do islike leave a content comment that's like your content. So I have somebodyone time that I was on like Elena Card owns Post and I just kind of like gavean opposite opinion because I don't necessarily agree with all the samethings that the Cardone family does in a very respectful manner To ignite agreat conversation and literally someone commented in there and said,dude, I love finding these little comments that you make because I put1250 freaking characters in each one. And they say it's like literally it'sliterally like reading miniature content from you like inside the feedand that's that turned a light bulb on for me. I was like, yo, This is a goodidea. And so my follower account has continued to rise. I have not gonestale. I still get like 500 two, followers a week When I get about 500to 1000 connection requests a week and I decline about 70%, So don't be overzealous about who youconnect with, right? Don't be...

...overzealous about where you're postingyour comments When it comes to like consistency on the same page. Likeswitch it up, try something new, go somewhere else. Find Gwen Stefani'slinked in and say something about one of her hit singles in the 90s, like dosomething different that you're not doing that. The algorithm will pick upon the other side of this, that I would say is a really good actual move isevery time someone sends you a friend request send him a message and everytime you request a connection and they accepted, send him a messageimmediately because so many people are on Lincoln there like connect, connect,connect, connect. And they never ever send a message after they're connectedwith you. And it's because they're, you know, they're going through and justbuilding their network and trying to get as many connections they can write,but they're missing a couple of the key components and one being that Lincolnwants to see you build connection with a person or else they're just kind ofgoing to be like, yeah, you've got 55,000 followers and they're fake,right? That's they're going to be their thought process, yep, totally makessense one. How much time do you spend on linked in a day? On average, Justlook at that the other day, But so I have three blocks before and afterhours are worth two of them are, and then there's one in the middle of theday, depended on my training schedule. It'll vary The one in the middle of theday is usually only like 30-40 minutes max and it's literally just likeresponding to comments And then the before ours kind of seeps into themorning because I usually, I'll have like a 20 minute block of white spacewhere I'll hit comments that have come in in the last hour of my first postbecause I still believe in those metrics, I believe that you shouldcomment and then you should tag the person you're responding to in yourcontent and your comments right now. It helps to feed the the algorithm alittle bit and it helps to show up in the feed a little bit more to it's adumb hack, but like it works, so just do it. Um but I probably spend anaverage of 2.5 to 3 hours a day on Lincoln. Um but people that just heardme say that I want you to also understand that um my business will hita million in revenue either by the end of this year or the start of next yearand and that's we're not even three years old yet. And, and that's becauseof linkedin. And so the time I spend on it to me is like working hoursessentially, right? I'm not on it, just perusing doing, I have a very succinctmethodology between me and my team that I'm carrying out. And it's more thanjust a process or system. I love being on the platform. I love seeing otherpeople's successes. I love learning from other people's failures andlearnings. I love the opportunity to be able to connect with other people. Ilove the, the view that I get from the seat that I meant of the network thatI'm connected to. I freaking love it. And because I'm bought into thatthere's a power they're there because there's a passion there. There's anexcitement there, you know, So it's more than just like, how much time do Ispend spend on it? It's like, how much meaningful and purposeful time do Ispend on it? And that's every single second. If you think about it, you'respending time with your potential customers, right, ideal buyers. It'sall good time spent. It's not time wasted. I've spent the same amount oftime. I thought you were gonna say more. I was wondering, I'm like Z over. I'mlike, is he putting in for like five hours, six hours, maybe some days. Butin general, When I was growing the most on linkedin, I was putting in 2-3 hours.That's just how much time it takes. And for people who think that's ridiculous.It's kind of like, well that's that's what it takes to do good, genuinesocial media marketing and growth and not just to build an audience, but toreally serve people, which is what gets you the attention that you want. It'swhat gets the perception that you want right? And I don't just do it becauseit's good perception necessarily. It's it's just the right thing to do if youhelp enough people that help you get what you want. We've gone a long time.It's been a long longer episode, but it's been a ton of fun dale. There anyfinal thoughts you have for people who want to go hard on linkedin. I mean, Ihonestly just to sum it up, but just tell people that there's a lot of riskin this concept of putting all your eggs into linked in and and hoping thatyou become some kind of popular or famous. And so I would be a lot moreintentional with the time spent, I would be a lot more thoughtful In theways that I'm approaching the platforms would not pay 999 for a course either.I would learn through other people's mistakes for sure. But there's plentyof content already on linkedin to help you to become what you need to be tostart, get some revenue, then hire a coach, get some direction, then hired acoach, hit a couple of walls, then hire a coach. Right? But but to start, Iwould tell you that it's simple that to go out there and be who you are,genuinely empathetically vulnerably, you're going to attract a trot, nomatter no matter how, quote unquote good your content is that if people can,when they see it and they read it, that...

...they can think this is somethingdifferent. That's sure there's a couple strategies there, right? That we didn'teven talk about, like you got to stop the scroll. But the only way to stopthe scroll is not to copy paste what someone else did to stop the scroll.You've got to do it in your own accord. You got to do it in your own way. Yougot to do it in in that jet. That place of genuine authenticity, radicalauthenticity is what people need to lean into remember too. That likelinkedin and social media. They don't control your fate. There are plenty ofmillionaires and billionaires out there that never touched social media. It'sjust an avenue to help you to get to to the same outcomes or sometimesdifferent outcomes that you might be thinking are more your cup of tea. Butto find those things, believe those things understand that there's morethan one route to get to those places as well too. And by doing that, youwon't set yourself up in this box. Instead, you'll set yourself up in thisocean, this vast place that has a lot of opportunity that you get to go andvisit every day and find new untouched territories in areas where you canbuild that reputation, create that consistency, dive into that communityand attract the type of reader and follower that you're looking to. Theone that engages with you. The one that also takes action. The one that thinkson a bigger scale than just, you know, I want to make money, right? Unlessthat's what you're trying to get on linkedin to do is teach people how tomake money. That's cool too, I guess. But if you if you dive into what'sintrinsic for people, if you if you use extrinsic motivators around that, youknow, to to tie it in as well too, so that they see not just something thatthey can they can align with and that that feels very similar to their ownthoughts and feelings but that also creates an outcome for them. Likethey've never experienced as well too. Man that worked. This is awesome. Thoseare the defining moments for what it is that you're building one person a day.That's what we focused on when we started. Let's impact one person a day.That's all we cared about. One person will read this one person will feelthis one person will be moved by this who is it going to be today? So so keepin mind set of servant leadership in that respect. Remember that there's oneperson that's out there that is lost that is broken, that is lonely, that isfrightened, that is in a place that you and I never want to be in. If we'vebeen there, we never want to go back and so go out there and find thosepeople that are that are scared about building their business that are, thatare freaked out about going into sales for a tech company that are wanting todo something bigger with their life and can't figure out the way to do it. Goand find that tribe, allow it to be to become something bigger too than justan audience. Right? Let's break that down. Right. Make it a community likewe just talked about, allow them to be involved, allowed them to be engaged tolaval them to move the same mountains that you're moving alongside you andmore than anything else. Everybody listening rebel. Rebel against all thetypical norms, the stereotypes, the generics, the white noise, rebelagainst these things become the sweet fish media of the podcast world andrebel. Take it all the way to the bank to don't just do it a little bit leaninto the thing that makes you authentic rebel against the status quo and thethings that are normal and create that distinct outcome that you're lookingfor. Find the rebels in your industry and rebel. It's kind of a message Ihave at the end. That's great. And just for everybody who's listening to thisand isn't, doesn't happen to be one of those 60,000 people that alreadyconnected to on linkedin. What's the best way to what you're like? You areall on linkedin. Yeah slash and backslash, copier warrior. When you goto linkedin, you can add sales rebellion, pretty much anywhere outsideof Lincoln to youtube instagram facebook tiktok twitter, I'm out herecome chill sales rebellion dot com. Google deal Dupri, come find ourcommunity. You can find our slack channel on our website, Get involved,have some fun with us, come rebel awesome. Gayle. Thank you so much forjoining me on GDP growth. One of the things we've learned aboutpodcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, reallywell actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if you texted afriend to tell them about it. And if you send me a text with a screenshot ofthe text you sent to your friend meta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book,content based networking how to instantly connect with anyone you wantto know. My cell phone number is 40749033 to 8. Happy texting.

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