B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2080 · 11 months ago

The Real (Not So Easy) Path to Thought Leadership on LinkedIn with Dale Dupree

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Dale Dupree who is the founder and CEO of the Sales Rebellion about his journey in becoming a thought leader on LinkedIn.


They cover Dales journey, his steps to building community and the elements of his brand messaging that put him on the trajectory he's on today.

Yeah, welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm dan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and today I'm here with dale Dupri, who is the founder and ceo of the sales rebellion and I have to say dale, welcome back, Welcome back to the show. Thanks dad. I appreciate having me out. It was cool when I got on here because we had this like reunion of sorts, but it's the first time that we've ever met. So it was, it was pretty fun. The power of linkedin, which is the topic that we're gonna be covering today. As you know, we've been on this month long deep dive into thought leadership and I've said it so many times in so many interviews now that's kind of like, wow, this is a month, a month is a long deep dive. But I've been especially excited about this episode because I love linkedin and if you're listening to this, hopefully you love Lincoln too because fearing to B two B marketing, you're not on linkedin. I don't I don't know what you're doing, this is this is where it's happening, this is where the sales is going on, this is where the marketing and the influence is really happening a lot. I'm excited to talk to dale because while I've had a lot of success on linkedin over the last year, sometimes it's fun to talk to somebody who's been at it longer than you. And so I've been going hard at linkedin. I've grown some, I've learned some things, I'm I'm probably not like a baby or a toddler when it comes to figuring out a good rhythm with Lincoln and how to get the most out of the platform. So, it's going to be fun for me personally to figure out how to grow thought leadership on linkedin specifically with Dale to pre, who's been doing it for Quite a few years now and it has an audience of what I think it's a 50, followers now. Like, it's it's substantial. And you've grown even more in the last couple of months. It's really picked up some steam here and I see your post all the time. They're they're long, they're weighty, they're often very fun and and story driven and so I can't wait to kind of pick your brain on the world of Lincoln and specifically how to become a thought later on linkedin. I will say that part of the reason why I even wanted to do this interview specifically is because I actually googled how to become a thought leader on linkedin. And I was telling dale before, before I tapped to record that the top article for how to become a thought leader on linkedin is from hubspot, I won't say the author, but this these are like, it's, what does it say? It's a nine easy steps to become a thought leader on linkedin. I'm like, one, it's never easy, but these are the steps optimize your linked in profile so that your industry can find you, it's uh, use skills endorsements and recommendations to validate your expertise, connect with other experts. And I'm like, and then the list just goes on and on with like, really trite information, you're like, great, so do all the stuff everybody does when they sign up for linkedin. I don't think so, how is this the ranking article for this? It's not it's not anything good. So, I'm like, today, we're going to put out some stuff that's a little bit more meaty, a little bit more juicy from someone who's actually been there and done it. And I can't wait to kind of like, even go a little bit deeper and ask things from, as somebody who's, who's done kind of the basics already have gotten in the rhythm of it and kind of pick it apart and get some more advanced techniques than a get some endorsements. So dale, if somebody approached you and said like, dude, love what you're doing on linkedin, um I kind of have something going, I've been posting some content here and they're like, what are some of the things I need to do to get started? Or are there questions I should be asking myself if I want to kind of grow a following on linkedin and kind of become a thought leader, Not that I would ever call myself that, but, you know, that's, that's kind of their aim with uh, building an audience on linkedin. What should they be doing? One of the first things to mentioned and recommend is detachment from the, from the outcome of what they're about to enter into. Because I hear so many people say things like I really want to gain a following on the social media website and and build a brand on the social media website. And I think when when we say things like that out loud, it's great to proclaim like this is something that we want, but I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves in those moments and we typically cause ourselves to collapse in them as well too. There's way too many stories of burnout and during the process of building a personal brand or a social presence in entrepreneurs or or just individuals in general, that that wouldn't want that label either. Right. The problem with that is that there's hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of those stories and and and the the big issue is that everybody is looking for this. Like how do I get rich quick? What do I do? I just do a bunch of click funnels that have 99 cent purchases of digital assets until like someone spends a million bucks, you know, what do I do? Do I get on social media and go viral? And suddenly I'm, I'm this big famous thing and everybody wants to be, you know, in my, in my circle and they'll buy from me then, right? No, I do. It just grind grind grind. Oh man, James. Hopefully James last night. That's a, that's a common. I love, I love Gary V, but that's how...

...people take Gary v. Sometimes it is right? It is. And that's the problem. It's this like fake hustle culture that that somehow like just going as hard as you can for as many hours as possible with these elaborate strategies in mind, somehow we'll make you ultra famous or ultra successful on these platforms. Well, here's the problem dan already pointed it out is that a lot of these ultra elaborate schemes to bettering your linkedin presents are nine of the most dumbed down, you know, watered down concepts like build a profile. That's in my list of things like that. That's a like literal have that. That if you don't, you can't be on linked in any way, right? You can't be on twitter anyway. You can't can't have any presence if you don't build your profile, right? That's so, that's insane, right? And the email you used to sign up doesn't matter that much guys because you can change it at any point. So why are we giving advice like this? But the advice we should be given is that when the copier warrior said, you know what, I'm going to post on linkedin every day because he was sitting with James Carberry and a restaurant trying to figure out the next steps of his life because he had literally just come out of a very intense 90 days that changed everything for me and, and we didn't sit there and go, okay, what are the best strategies for posting on Lincoln? I just recognized? And, and, and he encouraged this in me that I had something on the platform. And then if I, if I leaned into it instead of and embraced it instead of just kind of doing, going through the motions of it and put very small habits around that concept, such as every morning at 5:30 a.m. I'm going to I'm going to get on social because I wake up about 4 30 About an hour earlier in that in between 4:35. So I'm gonna do my morning routine. I'm gonna head over to my phone about 30 minutes to an hour into being awake and I'm going to post content. I'm gonna do that every day. There was no massive like this many comments and and do this. It was just going to go on gonna post. And eventually that turned into a community effort as well too. Because I would go on, I would post and I would head to these 40 people pages and I would read their latest post and I would comment on it, Right. And that was my literal strategy. And I never once said I want to have 60,000 followers by the year 2021. I never said that instead. I just said I'm gonna be raw, I'm gonna be real. I'm gonna be me, I'm gonna be a rebel. I'm going to develop a brand through authenticity for this genuine effect. I'm not gonna do it to get rich quick. I'm not gonna do it to go viral. I'm not gonna do it for some like strategic narrative instead, I'm going to do it because it's authentic. I'm gonna do it because it's the real dale. I'm gonna do it because it's everything that a community that might be out there searching for is looking to find and I am the answers to those things. If I am dale, if I am myself, no strategy can create anything around that unless you're the church of scientology, right? Unless you're like creating some kind of cult and and then from creating some kind of cult then yeah, there are some indoctrination strategies. You could definitely chill on, you know, to help with that process. But humans are attracted to familiarity to audacity to this change agent, this thing that's not uh like I like this but it feels different like this feels like something I would do, but it feels different like that's what people are looking for, right? And most of us have it in us naturally and it's not a play because of that. Nobody can fake that kind of activity. Nobody can fake that kind of attribute. Right? So that be my best advice for people getting started. Would you say that the proper mentality for actually becoming a thought leader is actually not approaching it for you wanting to be the leader, but for you to help the most people, I would say it like this, I love that thought break it, I would break that out even like even further, I would say when I am done with with this thing, whether that's thought leadership or not, when I'm done with Lincoln, what do I want to have gained from it? And when I sit there and I reverse engineer an outcome. So for me this is literally what I said. I believe that there's a silent majority of people just like me and that they inhabit a place like linkedin because it's a B two B space and I sell copiers. And I said, and I bet that that people, I bet sometimes people sit in their car and and as uh £230 male with a beard that's white, sit and sit in his car and one just like me somewhere else. They're out in the world and maybe their colors, different ethnicities, different sexes different. But somebody that can identify with me As the guy that sits in his car after 25 nose and just breaks down and cries like a little baby because that's a natural emotion and it's a, it's a state that we put ourselves in by going...

...out there and trying to build this outcome that were desiring to get in the first place, this legacy that we're trying to leave. I bet there are people out there that aren't flipping through $100 bills on instagram all the time, that some days they don't have those $100 bills Because the commission ran out and it's dried up and nobody's buying right that because, I struggled with addiction for a few months there when I was making $5,000 a day with my sales. That that I put myself into a bad position and now I have now I have a habit that I can't break, that I struggle with depression and that I've been suicidal out in the field, making calls, going through the daily grind, getting yelled at by my boss, being in all these terrible situations that I'm putting myself in in most cases like the constant rejection of sales. And I literally sat there and said, I believe that that exists outside of myself and there's not a voice for those people. I looked everywhere for that voice and the only way I ever found it was to my father and through my six mentors ever, right in my own backyard. Alright, even my silent mentors that were authors or, or big names like they were not talking about these issues. And so boom there. That's my literal expectation of getting elected, finding some of those people and giving them an outlet or their own voice was my thought process will look at me now Dude, I mean I started a company two years ago because of, of the traction I created on linkedin and I'm able to train sales people all over the world. And so thought leadership cool. Like I'm flattered that you think I'm a thought leader bro, I truly am one of those things that people can say about, you can't say about yourself, right? Yes, so, but what I've been aiming to do and what I've been trying to do and what I've wanted to do this whole time is to be a servant leader is to give the people that are listening, the ability to identify and say yes dale, let's go dale, let's change this thing down because that's the only way that we create, the kind of outcome that we desire in the first place is by igniting a little spark that turns into a flame that burns the world. And the best way to do that is to going back to your original statement of serving others and, and building that trust with people. Yes, like in my mind, I thought on a very macro and micro level, but I don't just want to say that I want to serve these particular individual people that exist out there and I want to serve the people that know those people exist and want to support them just the same, but don't necessarily struggle with those things. And, and, and so I branched out, you know, from that, from that literal, very defined, uh, ideal person that I wanted to speak to write, I found my niche, I found my target and I created it and I said in my head, how can I serve these people? 100% my reasoning and logic. So I mean I'm always trying to break things down to the more in the smaller bite sized steps. So there's a lot of things you just said. So let me see if I can kind of recap kind of what happened there. Concisely essentially, you did have a mentality, you said that you wanted to be a servant leader, you wanted to seek to serve, I think where the words you used and then you had to identify a group of people. It helps if those people are like you right, because you can identify with them, you're gonna have stories, you can share with them that there, you're gonna be able to share yourself and they're gonna be like, oh my gosh, I've felt that exactly same thing I've been in the exact same moment. I've literally cried in my car. So it helps if you can obviously have been through what they've been through and you you essentially found and kind of rounded up the problems that they had and they weren't general problems, they were problems that weren't being addressed. And then you essentially found ways to serve. So when you think about helping them and serving them, you mentioned if you already, but how do you help them? Like what do you do? So creating that community to me is like the biggest act of service. So for people out there that want to start a company and they want to start a business, so they want to build a brand for themselves, even they have to recognize that like one of the best things that they can do for that, that level of success that they're trying to achieve for themselves is to entrust it into others and recognize that it's it's people that build that for you, like you you don't get rich because you went out and made a bunch of money, You got rich because people gave it to you. That's I always say that so many people hate it when I say that too, because it contradicts so much of what the world would tell you, right, that your hard work, sure it is based your efforts, your fruit is based on your hard work and it makes it a difference. And in regards to like how hard you're working compared to how hard you're not right, or the other guy that's competing with you and vice versa, right? But at the same time to it is up to those people and how they perceive you and it is the action of those people involving themselves into what it is that you're doing, that creates that success. So if...

...you're going around working 100 hours a week, but you're a scumbag And you're literally just trying to do this to get a ton of people signed up for your thing to pay 99, a month. Because that that's all the desires your dollar and that they know in two years, if they get up to 10,000 people in that they're a millionaire and then they can do whatever they want, right? If that's your that's your outlook. If that's your goal, like, you're gonna fail, either you're going to fail, get into that success or you're going to fail in that success, because I'm not going to say that it doesn't work, right? Plenty of there's plenty of people out there that I look at their wealth and I look at their success and my cat, I would never do any of these things. I would never support you because I see exactly what you've done and what you're doing. The women that, that you've harmed the men that you've harmed right in relationships. I see your reputation. I see what you do. I see what it is, right? So there has to be this very conscious effort toward the concept of those people that you're trying to serve. Who are they? Why do you want to serve them and then build around them something that they can buy into, something they can live in something they can enjoy that doesn't end up in them being like, man, you turned into a dick, excuse my french. Right? Like I thought you were better than this. I thought you were different when I bought into you. But look at you now like, I don't like this. I don't like what I see here, right? Like why do we do that so often? Especially in the thought leader culture, it's very prevalent, right? So so I just to take it a step further, you know it's it's that thought that big wide net that you've got to think about right and narrowing and casting that wide net, narrowing it down to the people that you want to serve that can come into your community that can help build it alongside you. What are some jerk moves that thought leaders make, they're just grained on you man. There's like the part of the success there so specific that people are going to know who I'm talking about. Let's just take let's say this for example somebody makes a ton of money through a successful idea and then and then we idolize them. Okay so we started saying oh my God look what this guy did this. His advice is so or her advice is so valuable, we have to listen to everything they say on this topic. Well, meanwhile they made the money off of you, not your audience that you're trying to sell to. They made it off at you and the group of people that you hang around with and that you identify as right, So and there and then they're coming to you and selling you. Oh, but because I did that, I know how to speak to your audience, eat my shorts, kevin. That is a lot of guys sure there might be some basic look at me in front of my Ferrari in my garage. Yeah, I remember that guy is ty Lopez. That's what it is. A huge piece. Ty Lopez, Russell Branson. I mean there's a bunch of them, right? There's a bunch of them. So it's to me it's just this, this identity, their identity is that they're this wealthy thing. But like the sucker is the person that's watching them thinking that somehow they're wealthy truly because there is no legacy and money. There's only legacy and actions, there's only legacy and the experiences that we've provided and what we've helped other people built in the name of bettering the community, not in the name of like fast cars, lots of sex, all the things that the earth offers us in the first place, this world offers us what really creates value and leaves legacies is the way that when people remember you, what they remember, did you take advantage of me or did you help me? Right, that's literally the thought process. So most that leaders suck at that. So when you talk about building community, like what are some elements of community and how is it different than building an audience? I think community is a little bit more, They're in charge, they're they're more involved because of that. They're in charge, they're the they're the thought leader, really, you do as they say, is the bigger picture perspective, right? When you have a community an audience, you can do the same thing with, right? But like, you're kind of taking a consensus with an audience with a community, like they're taking action to, you know, for example, your we're about to launch a product and we're going to our community and saying we want this to come from your mouth, we already know that people will listen to us and they'll watch what we say, but we believe that your value is much mightier and and we entrust that within our community and we give it to them and we enable them through that process. Community also like creates subcultures, audiences are are typically just audiences like they're a fan of your thing. Community can create subcultures like inside of the rebellion, there's a group of people that love to barbecue and they're either students or they're just people that are brought into the culture. But they get together, we have, you know, a slack channel and they banter now and then talk about this, talk about that and they're like their own little private thing. There's not a lot of a minute either, right? But it's, it's fun to see, right? There's like the coffee culture people, there's right? There's there's all these little subcultures that can be created that also people identify with you and your...

...thing, but then they identify you with everything to an extent and you become part of their ecosystem in those moments. You know, it do truly like this is why colts are created communities turned into that, right? But we believe in a healthier mindset around this that buy into us and our ideas. That's what we're asking for sure. But we want you to bring your ideas to it. We want you to say, yeah, there's some gaps here, guys and let me tell you what they are so that we can here and we can get better and we can learn from you at the same time as well too. That's a difference. Like we're not, we're not trying to manipulate an audience. We're trying to enable a community and do it and doing it through their own actions, their own worth makes a lot of sense to find a lot of thought leaders. What they really want is like a an audience, you know, someone that is just listening to their every word, but I'm like, the real way to be truly influential is to go and help a lot of people serve them and then help connect all the people that do end up following you because you've helped so many people, Right? That's this kind of natural. Um but then connecting them to each other because they can actually help themselves more than you can help them sometimes. Right, They can give more specific feedback. They can have great conversations. I mean, James has been doing this with a couple of groups where he'll take, you know, VPs and marketing and just help them help each other. But it's in those small, little micro communities as you were talking about those little niche one offs that are part of a broader community, but our small groups that can talk to each other and actually actually help, how do you find those forms? Do you have, Like, do they connect to you through your website? Do you ask people to join you on your slack communities? Like how are you building community and pulling them from Lincoln to build more community in a in a digital world. It's, you know, it's slack, it's discord. It's all the popular communities that are out there. Like, if you think back to Anybody that's listening to this that was born in 1985 to 1990, or maybe even like, 1980s and 1990s can relate. And that at some point, you were on a message board and you met a bunch of people on that message board on the internet, and you built something pretty strong with those people. Matter of fact, This coming Thursday, a guy I met on a message board who have had a friendship with since, like, touring in my band days, like, back when I was 18, it's coming to town with his family were hanging out right? Like we made friends that way back there. Like there's a generation of us that like nose how to connect through virtual mediums for sure because of that. Like you see something like slack or facebook groups or discord and you think to yourself like, oh, I can get behind that, I can do that. That'll work because you're used to it already. There's a whole group of people that don't understand it. And the thing is is that it's it's own like living breathing ecosystem. So when you, when you invite people to come into your community, you don't just set up 80 freaking channels and say, all right, everybody go talk this talk that you set up four and you say like this one's for advice, this one's for networking. This one's for like your niche, Like prospecting is created, prospecting one of our niches. This is for banter any general thing you want to say, lament. Talk about headed here, right? Be specific to those four categories and you'll have people coming out the woodworks, like in the right places, asking questions, getting involved, speaking, throwing ideas down, meeting other people, deeming them right. Even through the process of like reading and learning a little bit about them. Like dang. I got to get in touch with this person. This is awesome. So the way that we do it is that we encourage, we encourage rebels to be rebels. Like our hashtag like rise rebels or ready up rebels. One of my first hashtags that ever used is the idea of like giving people their own identity and voice. Like our opening our slack channel is the best thing that we ever did. So we had a private slack channels, just the company and we took the literal company, private slack channel. We opened the four rooms up renamed him essentially, you know what they are now. And of course we have a, we have two channels that are still private to people like our winds channel are gone channel and then our, just our coach this channel so that they can still communicate on the back end with us and we don't have to switch over to text or anything like that. Right? So like you can, you can use a Platform like slack to duel, engage, engage your company internally and then engage your community as well too. So we're sitting at like seven, almost 800 strong in the slack without like advertising it bro, you know, just literally telling people through a couple of posts and typically just in comments in our content that hey, are slack channels open if you want to come chill And we have a mass 700 plus people in it in the course of just a couple of months. And and again, I think that that's that shows you also what a community desires. They want their voice to be heard. They want more engagement with you than just the one post you to put on Lincoln. They want...

...to hear your voice, right? Because a lot of times they think like, oh, this content is good, but what's this guy like anytime I meet somebody, I'm always flattered when they're like, yeah, I just want to tell you, you're exactly like you are on the internet and I'm really excited about that. That makes my heart full because that's I don't do this for some kind of celebrity status. I do this to see other people succeed and I bring who I am every day. And my story is my authenticity, my vulnerability because I want to see people become better. So for me this isn't a game either. And that's what that leaders in general, Miss this isn't a game. I'm not playing some kind of game. I'm living this out. This is a lifestyle, rebellion is not just a word, it's not just a phrase and it's not not fleeting, it's something that's here to stay because other people will adopt the mindset and they will they will engage through community efforts and that will carry the legacy on past my lifetime, josh. What do you think is the most irritating thing for B. Two B buyers right now? Man Logan, I love talking to you about this. You know That the number one challenge right now is that many customer facing teams in the B two B. Space right now are forcing their potential buyers too by the way that they want to sell, buyers don't want to buy that way. Right now. They want to by the way they want to buy. We need to enable those buyers, we call this buyer enablement at sales reach. We need to enable those buyers to make better decisions quicker in a comfortable environment that's more personalized for them to move forward with that process. Dude, that's awesome. I couldn't agree more since I've been using sales reach in my own sales process. It's allowed me to really enable the buyer to move more quickly in really two ways. One they don't have to download a bunch of attachments. I can send them to one page with the proposal case studies different resources because let's face it, the proposal is just one part of the sales conversation and probably only one sales enablement piece of content that you're sending. So it makes it easier on them. And then the other thing is, you know, we're selling to our champions and then we're making them have to re give our pitch to the entire buying committee. So one thing I do is put a Custom 2-3 min video on the top of my sales reach page that says, hey, here's all the resources, tie it back to the conversation. Here's the proposal. Let me know if you have any questions and it allows me to give a little bit of kind of a mini pitch to the rest of the buying committee, introduce myself, which helps me build trust and credibility and helps the buyer not have to repeat the entire pitch from scratch. So if anybody is looking to do the same thing in their own sales process, I'd highly suggest they reach out to you and the team over at sales, reach for anybody listening, just go to sales reach dot io to talk to josh and the team, it's fantastic. Thought about community and bringing them together. They want to hear your voice. They want to connect with others. Ultimately, because you have a shared sense of the problem, right? You can empathize with them, they can empathize with each other and then help each other overcome those problems. One of the important things you said earlier that I think we want to want to circle back around to is around messaging, right? I do find that there's a lot of people and me, even myself, I like messaging is not easy. Like trying to have a focused message is not an easy task. I'm a marketing general. So I talk about a lot of things marketing most people know me for podcasting because of sweet fish media. Um I've been talking about a lot about thought leadership recently, so I'm starting to become a little bit more well known for that, but when you say messaging, like what is all of that entail? Like what are the different elements of messaging that are important to you and the sales rebellion that you've made, messaging is so important, right, Jeff and I are really getting deep my business partner into this whole concept, even at this point we're a couple years in, right? But we've we've always thought sat back and thought about like the brand, the overall brand that people see like what are people experiencing? Like what what's happening that that's like for somebody when I read something that's impacting them on a totally different level than we're used to, how are we accomplishing those things? We're not doing it by just like saying stuff that we like we're doing it by providing an intrinsic value through those words, through that that messaging through that identity. And so like we look at it as like relics almost like inside of the organization, right? And really that's what they are. They're these relics that we have. So for example, like our book and in our Refuge app, which is about to release their going to be our to us are going to be the two cornerstones of that whole process for us in general, just like where people can get super involved with our relics with our our legend, even like the things that we're creating at a foundational stance. So like the copier warrior copy of warriors, the original rebel, right? So you have the copier warrior, he creates this idea of a rebellion and then he dies. That's like what we've played out in our head, he dies and what comes from him is me, who you see today dale, the leader of the sales rebellion. But this idea too is...

...that like Dale doesn't exist anymore, right period because he died with the copier warrior and we've handed the baton off to people, right, people that come and join the rebellion to become rebels. So there's a video on our website or on our Youtube channel that when you get there, welcomes you and it says it's me talking. And I said, I never thought that the things that I did as a sales rep would be more than just something that that would change the trajectory of my success, but that could be adopted by sellers everywhere to change the trajectory of their individual success. And we basically at the end of it, we have this this sign off of me taking my hat off my copy warrior had off and everyone else putting it on over and over again. And so for us like we've created this image, this vision, this, this brand, this thing, these relics that you see, we use a lot of different terminology and the weather. We phrase things right. We put change the game as a hashtag and everything. We call our pipeline system, a living pipeline. We call our pitch concepts and theories, reason we call our our our sales process and and framework the rebel invasion. We created all these things that are very, they're identifiable. They're fun, they have a branch, then they have a glow, their relics right? And its language is what it is. It's like people start saying things like I want to be a legend, I want to choose legendary, I want to climb my mountaintop. I want to become something that people will remember and passed down for years as a warrior inside of the sales world. Like when, when people see our stuff and they hear the way that we presented, they become a part of that whole process alongside of us. Dude, we hear him say it all the time to write, we hear, we hear them in our coaching calls, we see it in their content, we, we watch it come out and like and that's it is that we tapped into even with the way that we are positioning are our own language that we've created. You know, in this by in concept of what intrinsically motivates somebody. It's easy for them to adapt to it and adopt it because they already believe it. Most people do. They just haven't been given permission by anybody to say it and to have it as a brand. That is just a thought. But now it's a visual right now, it's a movement and and really, that's our take on it as an organization. We are constantly trying to figure out how to go deeper into that. So, like I was saying, with a book and Refuge, we've started doing that. The Rebel Refuge is a place to come and find comfort. It's a place to get away from the monotony and and gamify your sales walk. It's a place to get away from the stale boring nous of sitting around and doing typical sales outreach every day and get a daily challenge that makes you do something outside of your comfort zone. Right? So, we're doing that in the way that we're providing product to people, even, you know, as we evolve the organization, but everything we're trying to seep in in every little way and everything that we do, and in the way that somebody thinks about the rebellion and thinks about their own sales walk, there's so many different layers, two good messaging, right? And so many of them just came, came out as you were talking. And I love it because you're so passionate about it. And I used to read your stuff thinking that it was over exaggerated, but it's not really over exaggerated. If you if you were here with me and felt the intensity of dale, maybe you can hear it in the audio, but I could certainly see it in the uh, hear it and see it with my own eyes. The details just kind of an intense guy. Like Dale's authentic, like he said like as authentic on video and live uh, in a conversation as he is in his, his crazy what seems like over the top Lincoln post. Um, but some of the things I picked up and all of that is that one like the messaging really stems from a lot of things. There's almost like a foundation in there and your foundation is one, you know who you're talking to, you know what their problems are. You have a mission around those problems and you have a story of why you care about those because it's your story. It's your, they were your problems and around that comes your beliefs. You have a lot of beliefs and you share a lot of them individually on linked in all the time. In different ways. Like the belief of being a servant leader is a better way to be, to do, to do sales, right. And then around that comes the language. And you said a few things that you called them relics. I've heard, um, in a book I read called Primal branded. He calls it sacred words. Everybody has sacred words like, remember I think you were even borrowing some from like pop culture. I think you say like this is the way right, very Mandalorian, but at the same time it's kind of like your, your brand is very, I don't know, it's almost has a, has a video game flavor to it. It has like, um, I don't know, it's just really fun. I don't know how else to like call it. It feels like like a 1980s video games sometimes. And I, I dig that. I love that kind of like game culture. Like um, gosh, what was that movie ready player one kind of feeling right, super fun. But like baking in and almost stealing some language from some places you make up some of your own that kind of dresses it up. It makes it more fun and you can pack a lot more meaning into your message, right? So when you say be a servant leader, be a legend, it's not just the words like the words have meaning to it because you've been,...

...you've been saying stories that are built around your mission which are built around your story, which are all all come back to the problem and the audience that you're talking to. So when you say be a legend, it packs a punch, right? It has meaning to it that goes beyond uh just the words themselves, which is just so much fun to see. And it's been fun to see. You kind of like flush this out over time and I know you guys have more yet to come. I know you're probably working on that with your business partner to even make it more sharp. Let's dive into some tactics. You are, you post a lot on linkedin. And it's funny because I used, I take seasons of waking up at 4 30 in the morning and I know if I wake up 30 in the morning and you're, I think you're, are you East coast? Yeah, so like, like I get up freaking early at 4 30 in the morning and I hit it sometimes at 4 45 start posting on linkedin and generally like dale dale has already beat me there. Sometimes I beat him there to some of these messes, like forums we've been in, where we like share posts and stuff, but like hardly a day went by when like I was getting ahead of dale. Usually he was posting ahead of me and it already started his day way ahead of mind. I'm like, uh, it was always kind of a game for me, but let's dive into some of the tactics, what do you think is working well on linkedin now that maybe didn't, didn't work? Um, or that's just knew like, what do you, what do you paying attention to right now on linkedin? Yeah. What I've, what I've been noticing is that it's these small things, right? What I started to lean into is like, why do people get banned from London? There's a lot of people getting like band or, or having things disabled. Yes. Like I've been saying that happened constantly. Um, you know, a post getting taken down or, and, and a lot of that, you know, is fueled by, um, you know, people reporting things right? But for the most part, a lot of the stuff I was saying, I started wondering myself, like, what's happening here? Matter of fact, I had a person hit me up and say, you're really good at linkedin is literally what they said. They called me and said that. They said, why do you think I just got banned from it? And I said, well, tell me what your activity has been like recently, Did you post on something? And, and he told me that he had been viewing a ton of people's profiles, but not sending connection requests and then they banned. It's weird and it's going to be more like taking things like the requested, they banned you or something, what's what's going on? Right. Exactly what my thought was, right. So, but, and he was sending connection requests to, Right? So I married the two together to an extent as well too. I came up with a couple of iterations, but I started to think if linkedin pays attention to what or where I should say I I honed into was like, where does Lincoln look for negative things they don't want happening? And where do we hear the buzz around those things and like what are they? And and that's helped me to really understand the living algorithm a little bit better because I believe Lincoln has the first living algorithm ecosystem and we're learning that as B two B content creators, because like B2B content isn't something that five years ago you were out looking for period, But I mean, anybody that can think back to 2016, like books, you read books? Yeah, I read books, right, but now it's like, do you go on linkedin to learn everything you possibly can, literally, that's where it's so much so that the platform has come a long way. So in my mind, I think the platform, one of the biggest things that they want is they want, if you're out looking at a bunch of people's profiles, you're probably a robot and they don't like that, right? You're probably you're probably a lurker and and it's okay to be a lurker to an extent, like the feed, but you're probably a lurker in the way that like, you could be scraping data off of those, those pages and never interacting with them and taking it outside of linkedin. So I started thinking about all these little things, right? And and so what I started to do was different habits. So for example, I usually get like 15 to 20,000 views of my profile for like the 90 day period or whatever it is that they do For one month or whatever it is. And so I usually get about 15,000 and my average like 15 and 20 is where I usually land. And that number started dropping when the algorithm change to like four or 5000 literally. Well over the course of the last six months I've got it back up 15-20000 and I've done that by saying like, well what was it, what was I not doing to make like the algorithm can't just change and suddenly I can't be found anymore. There's got to be something else that's going on here. And so I started thinking about all the things that people are doing wrong, that they don't like. And I started to say to myself, okay, so what if I went to somebody's profile and I messaged them So I started I literally started doing that. I started going to 20 profiles a day and that I was connected to and just saying, Hey What's up? Literally if I had some good stuff to say I would too, but have no pitches. Just a quick like look uh looking on their profile, seeing a couple things,...

...hey, what's up? We've been connected for awhile, never message you. Or maybe I had a string of messages already And I just kind of kept the conversation going and I started doing that every morning, just like 20 people will. Now, it's like super habitual and I probably send like per week like 500 to 1000 messages. And now the part that sucks about that is that right now I probably have 2000 messages I need to respond to literally because of that activity. But algorithm has literally been conquered by me again, you know, from the perspective of like what they wanted per se. So like engaging with so it doesn't have to be random people like you if you don't have 55,000 connections, well I only have 15 direct, the rest are followers, But if you don't have 15,000 direct connections And you only have 500 go chat with them making a cadence, like be involved with them on on on linkedin and that will help Lincoln will reward you for those things, I guarantee it and then get into their activity, feeding height. Yeah, exactly. That's really interesting. So you're taking it down to the D. M. Level now? I used to I definitely paid attentions, I found out that like if you want people to see your content then go to other people's content and leave a comment, chances are because they're probably gonna reply to you, link to is gonna be like, oh dan. And so and so we got a little something they're having a conversation, maybe I should show dan's posted that person, right? And the more people you can get to see your post and it creates a rhythm, it kind of sends a signal to the algorithm that more people should be seeing your content. So you don't go out there and just be like, oh nice, nice post. Nice post. Nice post. It's not like you want to scam the system, you want to leave meaningful content. I try to I go onto my feet and just try to help as many people as I can, either by encouragement, encouraging them, giving my two cents, leaving something helpful, like critiquing something, even like pushing back on something they say sometimes um that's real content, but it used to be the way I used to pump the algorithm, I noticed that doesn't work as well anymore. Like leaving comments on other people's posts doesn't have the same effect as it used to. So it's interesting you've taken it to dems and that seems to be taking it to the next level. Are you still leaving a lot of comments on people's posts? I would tell people that are commenting not to every day shows up in somebody news comments. So like you probably only see me in your comments once every other week right now. And that's a literal strategy because if I'm showing up in your comments every day, I might, I might tell the algorithm something incorrect, right? I might say like, oh dale needs to be paired with dan all the time, right? When that might choke me from other people. So, but if I'm with dan twice a month right, then it's gonna look at that that activity differently now, I'll like content, I'll go I kind of like like some people's stuff here and there that I've already left a comment for, But every day I try to be in 25-50 different people's content and and sometimes I try to do second connections on purpose, 3rd Degree connections on purpose to just open the algorithm up for myself. Biggest problem is I'm not, I don't have enough followers to post content, so I've had to go out and like Find people because like literally I can get to the end of my content stream and in the course of like 30-45 minutes, right? Which is a crazy thought because I should be seeing tons of second connection content and whatnot. But I remember I only have assert a very small amount of first connections, I have a lot of followers, right? So and Lincoln doesn't necessarily give you your followers content. It does, I've seen that it does that from time to time, but it doesn't the other side of it to dan that I would say like so like leave your comment but like don't just say like yo that was tight. Sometimes I will say that I'm not going to lie, but like make a conscious decision to say you talked about like saying something audacious or riling people up a little bit and I love that theory. But like what I would truly tell people to do is like leave a content comment that's like your content. So I have somebody one time that I was on like Elena Card owns Post and I just kind of like gave an opposite opinion because I don't necessarily agree with all the same things that the Cardone family does in a very respectful manner To ignite a great conversation and literally someone commented in there and said, dude, I love finding these little comments that you make because I put 1250 freaking characters in each one. And they say it's like literally it's literally like reading miniature content from you like inside the feed and that's that turned a light bulb on for me. I was like, yo, This is a good idea. And so my follower account has continued to rise. I have not gone stale. I still get like 500 two, followers a week When I get about 500 to 1000 connection requests a week and I decline about 70%, So don't be overzealous about who you connect with, right? Don't be...

...overzealous about where you're posting your comments When it comes to like consistency on the same page. Like switch it up, try something new, go somewhere else. Find Gwen Stefani's linked in and say something about one of her hit singles in the 90s, like do something different that you're not doing that. The algorithm will pick up on the other side of this, that I would say is a really good actual move is every time someone sends you a friend request send him a message and every time you request a connection and they accepted, send him a message immediately because so many people are on Lincoln there like connect, connect, connect, connect. And they never ever send a message after they're connected with you. And it's because they're, you know, they're going through and just building their network and trying to get as many connections they can write, but they're missing a couple of the key components and one being that Lincoln wants to see you build connection with a person or else they're just kind of going to be like, yeah, you've got 55,000 followers and they're fake, right? That's they're going to be their thought process, yep, totally makes sense one. How much time do you spend on linked in a day? On average, Just look at that the other day, But so I have three blocks before and after hours are worth two of them are, and then there's one in the middle of the day, depended on my training schedule. It'll vary The one in the middle of the day is usually only like 30-40 minutes max and it's literally just like responding to comments And then the before ours kind of seeps into the morning because I usually, I'll have like a 20 minute block of white space where I'll hit comments that have come in in the last hour of my first post because I still believe in those metrics, I believe that you should comment and then you should tag the person you're responding to in your content and your comments right now. It helps to feed the the algorithm a little bit and it helps to show up in the feed a little bit more to it's a dumb hack, but like it works, so just do it. Um but I probably spend an average of 2.5 to 3 hours a day on Lincoln. Um but people that just heard me say that I want you to also understand that um my business will hit a million in revenue either by the end of this year or the start of next year and and that's we're not even three years old yet. And, and that's because of linkedin. And so the time I spend on it to me is like working hours essentially, right? I'm not on it, just perusing doing, I have a very succinct methodology between me and my team that I'm carrying out. And it's more than just a process or system. I love being on the platform. I love seeing other people's successes. I love learning from other people's failures and learnings. I love the opportunity to be able to connect with other people. I love the, the view that I get from the seat that I meant of the network that I'm connected to. I freaking love it. And because I'm bought into that there's a power they're there because there's a passion there. There's an excitement there, you know, So it's more than just like, how much time do I spend spend on it? It's like, how much meaningful and purposeful time do I spend on it? And that's every single second. If you think about it, you're spending time with your potential customers, right, ideal buyers. It's all good time spent. It's not time wasted. I've spent the same amount of time. I thought you were gonna say more. I was wondering, I'm like Z over. I'm like, is he putting in for like five hours, six hours, maybe some days. But in general, When I was growing the most on linkedin, I was putting in 2-3 hours. That's just how much time it takes. And for people who think that's ridiculous. It's kind of like, well that's that's what it takes to do good, genuine social media marketing and growth and not just to build an audience, but to really serve people, which is what gets you the attention that you want. It's what gets the perception that you want right? And I don't just do it because it's good perception necessarily. It's it's just the right thing to do if you help enough people that help you get what you want. We've gone a long time. It's been a long longer episode, but it's been a ton of fun dale. There any final thoughts you have for people who want to go hard on linkedin. I mean, I honestly just to sum it up, but just tell people that there's a lot of risk in this concept of putting all your eggs into linked in and and hoping that you become some kind of popular or famous. And so I would be a lot more intentional with the time spent, I would be a lot more thoughtful In the ways that I'm approaching the platforms would not pay 999 for a course either. I would learn through other people's mistakes for sure. But there's plenty of content already on linkedin to help you to become what you need to be to start, get some revenue, then hire a coach, get some direction, then hired a coach, hit a couple of walls, then hire a coach. Right? But but to start, I would tell you that it's simple that to go out there and be who you are, genuinely empathetically vulnerably, you're going to attract a trot, no matter no matter how, quote unquote good your content is that if people can, when they see it and they read it, that...

...they can think this is something different. That's sure there's a couple strategies there, right? That we didn't even talk about, like you got to stop the scroll. But the only way to stop the scroll is not to copy paste what someone else did to stop the scroll. You've got to do it in your own accord. You got to do it in your own way. You got to do it in in that jet. That place of genuine authenticity, radical authenticity is what people need to lean into remember too. That like linkedin and social media. They don't control your fate. There are plenty of millionaires and billionaires out there that never touched social media. It's just an avenue to help you to get to to the same outcomes or sometimes different outcomes that you might be thinking are more your cup of tea. But to find those things, believe those things understand that there's more than one route to get to those places as well too. And by doing that, you won't set yourself up in this box. Instead, you'll set yourself up in this ocean, this vast place that has a lot of opportunity that you get to go and visit every day and find new untouched territories in areas where you can build that reputation, create that consistency, dive into that community and attract the type of reader and follower that you're looking to. The one that engages with you. The one that also takes action. The one that thinks on a bigger scale than just, you know, I want to make money, right? Unless that's what you're trying to get on linkedin to do is teach people how to make money. That's cool too, I guess. But if you if you dive into what's intrinsic for people, if you if you use extrinsic motivators around that, you know, to to tie it in as well too, so that they see not just something that they can they can align with and that that feels very similar to their own thoughts and feelings but that also creates an outcome for them. Like they've never experienced as well too. Man that worked. This is awesome. Those are the defining moments for what it is that you're building one person a day. That's what we focused on when we started. Let's impact one person a day. That's all we cared about. One person will read this one person will feel this one person will be moved by this who is it going to be today? So so keep in mind set of servant leadership in that respect. Remember that there's one person that's out there that is lost that is broken, that is lonely, that is frightened, that is in a place that you and I never want to be in. If we've been there, we never want to go back and so go out there and find those people that are that are scared about building their business that are, that are freaked out about going into sales for a tech company that are wanting to do something bigger with their life and can't figure out the way to do it. Go and find that tribe, allow it to be to become something bigger too than just an audience. Right? Let's break that down. Right. Make it a community like we just talked about, allow them to be involved, allowed them to be engaged to laval them to move the same mountains that you're moving alongside you and more than anything else. Everybody listening rebel. Rebel against all the typical norms, the stereotypes, the generics, the white noise, rebel against these things become the sweet fish media of the podcast world and rebel. Take it all the way to the bank to don't just do it a little bit lean into the thing that makes you authentic rebel against the status quo and the things that are normal and create that distinct outcome that you're looking for. Find the rebels in your industry and rebel. It's kind of a message I have at the end. That's great. And just for everybody who's listening to this and isn't, doesn't happen to be one of those 60,000 people that already connected to on linkedin. What's the best way to what you're like? You are all on linkedin. Yeah slash and backslash, copier warrior. When you go to linkedin, you can add sales rebellion, pretty much anywhere outside of Lincoln to youtube instagram facebook tiktok twitter, I'm out here come chill sales rebellion dot com. Google deal Dupri, come find our community. You can find our slack channel on our website, Get involved, have some fun with us, come rebel awesome. Gayle. Thank you so much for joining me on GDP growth. One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works really, really well actually. So if you love this show, it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it. And if you send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend meta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book, content based networking how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. My cell phone number is 40749033 to 8. Happy texting.

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