B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1695 · 7 months ago

Customer Marketing: It's Not What You Think, with Tara Pawlak

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Benji talks to Tara Pawlak, Head of Marketing at GetAccept.

Customer marketing shouldn't be marketing at your customers for your business's immediate benefit, yet often that's what it's reduced to. Tara is here to help us re-examine our current strategy and provides some practical advice to move in a better direction.

Hey be to be growth listeners. We want to hear from you. In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to betb growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus. The first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two, letter be growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to enter, and look forward to hearing from you conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be tob growth, this is B tob growth, coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and joining me from Nashville, Tennessee director of growth here at sweet fish, Dan Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, our creative content lead, Emily Brady. How you guys doing today? Just page pump. Today Dan is on his sugar rush, is caffeine high, and so we're gonna hand it right off to him here because we are here for another segment and we want to talk about what we're seeing in the news or on Linkedin today is definitely a linkedin update. Dan, take it a dang man. I feel like one of the best parts in the worst parts of the morning is when you've had your last sip of your coffee. In my case, I drank Yourba mate, my caffeinated tea, and you're like Oh, it's gone, but at the same time you're on your full caffeine high, which is where I was like just two minutes ago. So I'm still filling the effects. I'm still feeling pumped and I'm feeling really pumped about a change that I'm seeing, and Linkedin, then I'm really excited for. So, as everybody WHO's listening. If you're into Linkedin at all, you kind of know that Linkedin's been like copycatting facebook for forever. Like anything facebook does, linkedin usually adopts later on at least the big features that were like actually worked for facebook, not at their features that didn't work as much. And sometimes it goes well for Linkedin, sometimes it doesn't. One thing we've all been anticipating is that groups on facebook have been freaking killing it. It's the only thing kind of working on that platform other than it's ads, which have been kind of phasing out to groups. have been doing really well on facebook, but they don't do well on Linkedin because whatever happens in a group on linkedin stays in the group on Linkedin, and while that's good p privacy, it's horrible for marketing because people would join a group and never hear from it again because they would forget to go back and log in and check the group. There for people have been starting communities all over the place, slack, private communities, facebook groups, you know, all over the place. Linkedin groups. You were kind of forgotten. I remember they were talked about over a decade ago. They were cool. But I've been hearing rumblings, little, tiny rumors, not even big ones. No, no big shoutouts, but little rumors and comments and in the conversations of linkedin groups starting to come back. And because we're starting this community called MIC club, we're like, Gosh, we need a place for people to be able to hang out, to chat, to have some water cooler moments about be tob podcasting. Where is it going to be? We went back and forth and I was probably going to do it on slack, like everybody else but I just kind of a hunch and kind of the whispers I was hearing. I'm like, you know what, I live on Linkedin. Let's do it on Linkedin. Everybody, most of our community that we already know of like already spends a lot of time on linkedin. At least they can get the notifications if they're mentioned there right versus on slack you have to log into the private slack channel. So we launched it there and I saw something that was so exciting this morning. I logged into linkedin and Bam there was a post. Someone had posted, not me, some some member had posted into the MIC club group, but it was on my main feed and I was so happy. I was like, Gosh,...

...did I log into the MIC club group and didn't know? I'm not logged into my club. This is my feed. This changes the game, Ladies and gentlemen, that's a whole new era for linked it. It is because it's so easy for things to get hidden right like I've joined groups and I'm guilty of exactly what you said, Dan, like I never saw a post from them again and then I just totally forgot that I was even in that thing. So those this danger or this feeling like we can't really create community here because no one is going to be that bought in from the get you like the day you join it, maybe, but like you, you don't have a rhythm established, you don't have a routine establish. Something has to call you back to it, and so I think many people have stayed away. I think a lot of people are part of dead groups. If you're on Linkedin, you've spent any considerable amount of time on Linkedin, you probably went through a phase in your own journey where you're like, I'm going to optimize my profile, this is going to be good for my career. Right. Maybe you were hunt job hunting and you wanted to optimize your profile, maybe you wanted to grow your network, maybe you just decided to set it up one day. But most people going join a few groups as like you want to be associated with the thing, and so you're like, oh, yeah, these are my people, these are my things, I'm part of I'm in this club, I'm in the embattle marketing club, I'm in the users of this product. Everybody appreciates club, because I need to show that on my profile. And maybe those groups were good one time, but people are joined part all of all these groups, but they're all dead. No one even posted the most of these groups anymore. So while most people are in groups, they've forgotten there in groups and no one's been part of like a live group in a long time. So I'm excited to see where it goes. Actually went unfollowed all the groups that I had been before previously, other than like my Alma Mater. I'm still in that group, but now I'm excited to see where it can go. And there's one caveat to the way I saw at work this morning that I'm still testing and still figuring out. Again, this is early so I'm still figuring it out. But one of the reasons why I think it was on my why this post was on my feed, was because James Carberry had commented on it. Now, as the found he's the founder of sweet fish. I'm a first connection with James carberry right so generally things that he comments on in general I'll show up in my feed. But this is the first time I saw something from a group and it had the little group logo on it and add the profile photo of the person who'd left the comment or the post and then it had james had comments on and of course it showed his comment down below. So while that's still a hurdled overcome. So not. It's not going to everybody's feeds automatically, I think. Yet still it's an easy hurdle to overcome because if you have a few prominent people in your group that are connected to most of the other group members, all it takes is two, three people, even one person. If you're as the group Creator, are just going and making sure you're leaving substantial engagement and all these and you're connected to all the other group members, that's going to really increase the likelihood that it's going to get in their feed. And if you have a couple of people in the group that are doing that and they're connected to most of the group members, then you're going to almost guarantee that that contents going into their feed because of the engagement Famili what excites you about this? Any thoughts here? Yeah, I mean I just have a lot of questions, I think because I wasn't active on Linkedin when groups were first hot, and so I'm wondering, like, what was the hype back then and why? Why is it becoming popular now or maybe you know it's still new, but why it would linkedin be optimizing for groups? I missed the first wave. To I remember some of the first original like og's on Linkedin that don't even do linkedin anymore. I can't remember. There was like a I think her name was Vivica, and she was the linkedin expert. She had a whole twitter following and called the linkedin expert, and Lewis Howe's who's now kind of moved on from linkedin. What they were both big and the linkedin groups. But since then, like like Lewis, you hear about every once in a while, the VICA, I don't even know what she does anymore. I mean Lus it was like you probably was a long time ago and they were doing it in the early, like mid two thousands. To show you like this was when this was a thing. Linkedin's been around a long time. So I've only it's almost like...

...reading history book, like what happened back then, right, I don't know. I've only read about it, but I wasn't a part of it. Now it's just exciting because what happened with facebook is likely to happen with Linkedin. There was a time where pages worked on facebook. There was a time when profiles worked and then there came an era of when groups worked on Facebook, and it's still true today. We're groups are pretty pretty strong on facebook, which means people collect around interests more than the less less social graph, more interest graph. You think about tick tock, it's pure interest graph versus were twitter is today. It's pure social graph. Right, you only see content because of who you follow and who you follow follow, who you the the the in the interactions of the people you follow right because they like, retweet or reply to things. You see those right. So that social graph. Tick Tock, on the other side, is pure your interest graph. It only serves you topics that you like. Hence you can follow somebody, but you might not necessarily get any of their content. Right, it's way closer to the interest graph. Groups brings it closer to the interest graph, which means if you're a company targeting a specific topic and want to be known for that topic, it's going to be easier to do it than ever before. It's going to be easier for sweetfish to be known for be Tob podcasting and then ever before, because we're going to start my club all for BEDB podcasters, which will attract those people, and then we'll have our content, our expertise, in front of them all the time, because won't be engaging in this community called the linkedin group. I love the potential here from a marketing perspective, to like so many active marketers on Linkedin, but, like groups, would give you an opportunity to connect in just a further way in the place you already go to connect with other people outside your company. Anyway, that's what I hate about slack. Slack as an option for community is weird in that I'm I'm usually interacting with people that I need to do tasks, and it's a brain switch right and it's so distracting to have notification set up. So when I'm in a slack that's like that, I usually turn notifications off, which then now that's just as effective as a linkedin group in its old form. So I think when you can get a community to gather where it makes the most sense for them, like their brains already in the mode of connecting, in the mode of networking. That's why, even in a facebook situation, you're already there to see things that are entertaining or interesting to you and groups took off because people started niching down into I only want to see posts about whatever, and then you form community there and you start meeting people and it's like it's a room that you walked into that's all talking about the hobby or whatever the thing is that you all enjoy. I'm really interested to track this and hopefully they don't move too slow, but we will, we will see and you'll have to keep us posted on this one, because to me it's like, if you're connected with everyone and you're commenting actively, that has to be happening to other people where now it's like this first connection POPs up in their feed and it's already happening to other people. Other people have commented on this post because I of course, took a screenshot and talked about it on Linkedin, and other people by like, Oh, it's happened to me too, and I'm like, oh great, this is this is a thing. So linkedin's either in a pretty large test phase, if enough of my connections are saying it's happening to them too, or they've already rolled this out. No one's really noticed yet, or at least none of my connections of notice, otherwise I would have heard about it already. So you're right. You're totally right. When you said, Benjie, it's like they the old phrase, like the medium is the message rings true, because I find that it's partly true. But I'd say every medium has a bias to it. You have associations with different content platforms and with slack. From most of us it's collaboration and tasks. For linkedin it's content and interaction,...

...right, so it's better to form your community around a channel that has a bias for content and engagement with people outside of your company, and that's what I like about Linkedin. Well, we'll be keep an eye on it and now, everybody that's listening to this, you can keep an eye on it too. Maybe go back through, look at dead groups you're a part of and do some spring cleaning and maybe join a new one. And obviously, if you are a be to be podcaster, then we want you to join my club. So be sure to do that. And today on be to be growth, we're about to share a interview that I did with Tara pollock. She has the head of US marketing at get accept and we're going to talk all about creating a customer centric mantra at your organization and also talk about building a customer marketing team. Love Tara's heart for customers and connecting them really in any way that she can to make sure that they're being as helpful as possible. She's done this from what for multiple organizations and is doing a great job at get except. You're going to enjoy this conversation, Dan Emily, thanks for jumping on here, and now let's head to our full interview with Tara Pollick. Welcome in, everybody, welcome back to be to be growth. Today I am joined by Tara Pollack. She is the head of US marketing at get except and we're thrilled to have Tara. Welcome in to be to be growth. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat today. Yeah, me too. So where I want to start is we were talking offline and we were talking about customer marketing and I feel like when that phrase customer marketing gets tossed around, there is kind of this gap right between the good it could provide and often maybe like what it is in reality. Customer Marketing shouldn't be US like marketing at our customers for your businesses like am media benefit, but pretty often I think that's essentially what it ends up being. I'm sure you feel this tension. I've heard you talk about a little bit, but bring that here to this conversation, Tara. How are you seeing that tension play itself out? Yeah, totally, I feel this a lot. I agree. So I started thinking about this after we chatted and you know, I think just the term itself, customer marketing right can be confused almost from like a traditional marketing mindset of like learning about marketing and what that is and the target market and who you're going after in the pain points that you're solving. But the my mindset of a custo customer marketing is really marketing for your customers. So the soul goal of helping add value to them and their own experience and how you can help them achieve goals. So you really should not be thinking about what else can I get out of my customers? It's not an expansion like growth model play and it's something that I've seen a lot and marketers in the way they talk about it or the way they structure their teams or they think that, okay, this is like the next thing that we need to do and we need to build a customer marketing team because it's expansion and what else can we do for US verse them? So I think it needs to be flipped. Yeah, let's go down let's go down the road of it going wrong a little bit further. So, like because we carry traditional marketing, marketing out into the world, into customer marketing, we almost have to like detach our our thoughts on marketing at people right and we have to think about it completely differently. How do you see this going wrong? Like what are some of the beyond just we do it selfishly, kind of naturally, but some of the ways that companies actually do customer marketing wrong? What are some of the ways they do that?...

Yeah, great question. So I think it has to all go back to the goal and where customer marketing can live or sit. So if it's sitting in like a traditional demand and structure and someone like is overseeing that, sometimes with customer success it can completely go wrong from the get go, from that goal, because customer market and my mind is the goal is not demand jet, it's not capturing more out of your customers. It's the simple goal of providing more value and happiness and experience. So, you know, at for an example, I see a lot of companies say, okay, great, we're going to have a customer newsletter and, you know, like a customer group and we're going to tell them all about our product releases and we're going to tell them and it's all about we and the company at the end of the day. Where it's should be looked at as the complete opposite and where you should start is where your customers are at. Them without you, without your service, without your tech, whatever you're selling, on their own and what are they experiencing? What is their daytoday? What a success look like for them? And that's when you can kind of flip it on the on its side, because you can't treat them all of the same right and that's what we're doing a lot of the Times. So it's interesting because it's really hard to sometimes prove out the value of this if it doesn't sit in a demandin play and you can't like prove it to the board room that, like, this is a worthwhile investment, because how are you going to show on the bottom line that this was worth it? Yet all intuitively we know, like we need happy customers and we want to add value to them in greater measure than just here's our core product and that's it right, like hope you know how to use it. But so for you guys at get, except specifically, like where would this function sort of sit? Where are you having these types of conversations like in the ORC chart? Yeah, that's a great question. So forget accept right now, since we're a global company, the responsibility of customer marketing is shared and its shared with in that regional market, since we're in like fifty plus countries, and you can imagine, market by market things are different, just from language expectations, adoption engagement. But it's all deliver with the same mindset of excellence of the way that we go to market and serve our customers and really it's all about them at the end of the day. So, for example, in the US market, we work as a team between marketing customer success, but in conjunction with product and product marketing. And so for me, the Best I can explain it to somebody else is almost like we're parduct marketing. I've worked with a lot of product marketers and they like where do I fit in? Right, it's like sometimes they report it to marketing, sometimes they report into product, but they have to be able to work with all these internal teams. I view customer marketing the exact same way. They usually roll up into marketing just by tradition, but they have to work really closely with customer success and product because they need to become the voice of the customer, but not the voice of the customer from a product standpoint, the voice of the customer, of knowing the customer and who they are and what else you can do to add value. And so that's why I see it as a share of responsibility. Someone will drive it. So usually you'll build out a role or a team, but right now at least, that got accept it's a share responsibility between marketing and customer success and the US market. Interesting. Yeah, it's going to be trying to sit slightly different places in different organizations. So if customer marketing is basically...

...the customer experience and you're thinking about it throughout their life cycle, right there's definitely different ways that we can add value and I wonder what are some of the ways that you think about that, because we've brought up this word value several times already in our conversation, Tara so I when you think of adding value to the customer, how are you doing that in like and how are you facilitating it? I Guess I personally think the place you need to start and the first place in the life cycle is, I mean, you can start, I'm demanded marketer by heart. So I would say before they become a customer. Yep, yes, so for sure, from that end, in the communities that your customers are when they're still prospects, right. But for this conversation, I will absolutely say during onboarding and implementation. It's their first experience ants with you, you know, and that isn't just implementation, on board and Customer Success Team, right, they should really be experiencing the entire you know, engagement and what you stand for as a company. So I would say to start there, you need to build out, like, you know, a traditional three thousand and sixty ninety day plan. But then beyond that, I would say, at the bare minimum, on a quarterly basis, your customers should be hearing from you. I don't think you should ever think that you can overcommunicate with them, and what they should be hearing from you is additional value. When I say value from a customer marketing stample and I typically need programs. So building out a program that is not tied to your service or your software or whatever they've really bought from you. So a good example of this would be, you know, a customer advisory group or a user group that you could add to them and has. It shouldn't be fueled around your service or software, like I mentioned. So it should be a neutral forum for your customers or users to add, you know, their thoughts, their opinions, and really the whole point is to allow them to have the opportunity to be surrounded by others that they feel have the same challenges or pain points, and I just think that's like the biggest opportunity in today's world is more of the kind of community networking, and it's typically not even talked about software and products, which I find so interesting. And there's been some big brands that have done this really well in community. So Hmm, yeah, it does feel like the two biggest ways that companies are doing this and trying to add value is around events and community. So you can facilitate those two things in different ways. Some events are going to foster community, naturally, so we're going to be more like a talking head or you know, but that person is adding value to you. And then community. That word is like every five posts on linkedin right now, so good luck getting away from it right but I do want to go down the road of maybe both of those and I have some follow up questions for you. When you think of customer marketing done well when it comes to community specifically, do you have an example of that? Could you flesh that out a little bit more for us? Sure. So I think people community, they go to like forums or like flack channels and that type of community. You know, Linkedin of course, as a community on a larger scale, or groups or something like that, but there's also some smaller way to really rally your your...

...audience. I would say, could be customers and or prospects together. So one that I absolutely love. That's typically a more traditional marketing in tactic. I guess you could look at or program. Is a loyalty program or rewards program that I've seen done really, really well. So I've seen companies give out even if it's just like earning badges or earning swag, but for me it's the whole idea when it's done well, is surprise and delight. So the customers don't really know that this is happening for a little while, and I'll tell you a little bit of what we've been thinking about here. I get except for the US market is developing right now. We're just kind of calling it like an Allstar program of rewarding and celebrating our customers. And you know, it's just because if you really know your customers and you're listening to them and your customers success, a customer support in your customer marketing is doing a really good job, then you really get to know your customers, at least a handful of them that are open and transparent, and you know, we know a lot about them. So it's, you know, developing that they're the hero and really appreciating what they do at the end of the day, every single day, and that their work matters. So, you know, really developing a program and sharing that through social or many different channels like email and different groups that we have, but inviting others to see how they got there and having them to be very human. So it's not perfect. So it's beyond like a customer case study where there's, you know, the shiny quote and the results and all of that, but it's really understanding their journey and from our vantage point, we saw them through the journey, so we have a different perspective on it. So we can celebrate them and say, Hey, what you're doing in your own industry and at your company is amazing because we've seen you for the last year do this this mess for, you know, whatever they're doing and their vision and their goals at their company. So, and I think that extra little cherry that everyone should think about is making it very personal, so you can think about kind of all stars, of like most dedicated, like best teamwork, things like that. You're not necessarily comparing your customers to each other, because it's very difficult, but you're really just celebrating them. So, for us, we sell sales technology and you know, is it something that we say closer of the quarter or the most one deals or you know, something like that. But just make it fun and make it creative and say like hey, we've been watching you, we see you, and to be to get that type of reward and recognition and kind of big storytelling from a vendor, it's just very rare. Yep, I think it's rare and there's so many ways that you can connect, like both privately and publicly, personalizing it, making it human. So it could be sending them something privately that recognizes them, while attaching that as well to something very public, like I love the idea of something posted on social where you're able to highlight a win that that company's experiencing, and it had me thinking of like in this example, you guys are the Guide and though, the person that are, the company that you're highlighting there, the hero, right. So you're able to say something and you were able to help facilitate that because of the service you provide, but at the same time, like, ultimately, you're shining a spotlight on them and that grows in foster's community in the long run, because community ultimately is like recognizing the golden other people, the golden their company and calling that and bring that to the surface. I think that's a fantastic way of facilitating this. Anything else on...

...community specifically that you would you would highlight ways that you think we can do that well to to foster this idea of customer marketing. Yeah, I mean it kind of goes into like events a little bit, but I think yeah, okay, because it's like community events kind of go hand in hand a little bit there in my mind, but I personally think that, okay, networking, of course, that's like immediately what people think of when you think of events, right, it's just that's how it is typically. But the career development path and career pathing and allowing people to have super transparent conversations with like likeminded people. I just think this is I don't know, this is the way of like open, open forums of really, at the end of you're helping other people that understand and it doesn't matter. You know your service. Again, it's like you have probably some of the same types of roles that use use your product. Right, usually you're selling to somewhat of the same personas or a set of personas. So I think people crave that, and especially if they have that commonality. And it's just something that I've seen again and again, even just from our own internal teams and me being a leader, of constantly people wanting career development, passing, open conversations and just lifelong learning. I think I think that's the thing on that one. It's just constant. I would I wonder what you would say, because people think about this one differently. Right. So when you think of creating events, sometimes it's something where you would invite potential customers and customers to that and everyone would have equal access. Some are going to be listening to us and they're thinking, okay, well, this is gated and this is for those that are already within our community of sorts. There are already customers and we're adding value only to them, because that's another way that we provide value. How do you think about that and maybe even balance it? Would love to go down that road a little. Yeah, that's a great question. So I've done, I would say, every way, both ways, but when I think of that, I guess I would tell people to test and try it out. I'm a huge fan of pretty much everything ungated from a marketing standpoint because again, if you go back to what comes of our marketing is it's delivering value with no expectation of anything in return. So as far as like your brand identity, if you're developing say, you know, Half Day virtual conference or a full day, you know, why not open that up to prospects, or maybe not competitors, but you know like other people in your industry or thought leader is at verse, like keeping them out. If you're really going to talk about your product and your product roadmap, that's like a whole other you know, we're not here to sell in communities. We are not here. Is Not selfserving. So for me, if you're really doing what you should be doing and providing value and not having it be done for any benefit of yourself, I think it's fair game that everything is pretty much open. And yeah, it's costly. Like to your point, it's hard. It's a hard sell internally. It's a hard cell to a board sometimes with investment, but you have to keep pushing and I think you can test and try it out on a small scale to get some winds. Okay, so let's just go down a thought experiment road for a second and let's go to the gated side of things, because I I think we're a lot of these conversations. I find myself like ending up in a space where I go everything should be ungated, like I'm very much where you are. So this...

...isn't really push back on your way of thinking. It's more like, let's just run the other side real quick, because you've done all of this right. I could see the that side being well, they're already our customers, so it's beneficial to them specifically. It's a smaller community, so we can foster it in a different way, whereas maybe different people are coming in and out every time. Like what do you see as the potential benefits to doing it the opposite way of what you just explained? Yeah, I mean I do see that side for sure. I just think there's a long term benefit. I'll tell you that I did. We have run in the past and a previous role that I was at a customer conference where we did one day was prospects customers and then next day was just customers, and the reason we did that was more around content and really trying to know the audience because, as you can imagine that I've done this before and speaking engagements, it's hard when you have customers and people that are not on your product. Yeah, because even just speaking, you know, as your language. Wait, yes, you like I can't, I can't say that, or I should say that, or you know, like you're just you can get it's hard and you have to prep a ton of people, you have to have those crazy content committee and it just gets more complicated. So from a simplistic standpoint. I totally get that and I would be on board with that. I would also say, if this is something you've never done before, take the easy road. Try It with customers, because the most critical part of customer marketing to me is feedback. That's how you know how you doing. Otherwise you're providing this value with not not charging anybody. And where you know, like where's the Roi? Where you know, like how our howls you supposed to know? Yeah, I think there's a lot there, and testing is a huge thing because, company to company, you might I mean, I've heard success stories all over the map of what we're talking about with you could build community with just customers and see success there, because you're adding tremendous value. Mixing them together. Of course there's going to be value because now you have people that are essentially evangelists for your company because they're already having a great experience with people that you know are new and maybe still wondering. So I think across the map there is a spectrum of potential goodness with comes from community and events and I love the way that you you break that down. I do want to I want to camp out on the Roy side of things real quick, because when we think about it as marketers, I think the word resonance would come up, like does this resonate with the people that are attending these events, that are a part of this community? That's a huge win, but that's really you can't put that on a spreadsheet. You might be able to get a testimonial, but beyond that, good luck. So how are we ultimately thinking about the Roi of events and community? Like Tara, break that down for me at what would you be thinking about when you're maybe having to sell this to the boardroom? Yeah, now, it's a great question. It's, you know, I think a marketer relying if you would say it's easy, right, it's it's an ongoing challenge because you're testing and trying new things and new events and new content. So I mean I would break it into different categories and, of course, getting the feedback from the customers is absolutely crucial. Of asking them everything, like the good, the bad, the ugly, what you could improve, what they were surprised by, you know, like really getting all of that feedback, I think, is super important. And of yeah, that's kind of like we're on the customer feedback the quotes, the experience, like showing some of that. But I also think it's super important to bring up other things as far as engagement.

If you didn't have this event, or you know this, you know micro event or community Powell, whatever you you held, how many people did attend? How long did they stay? Did they go back into your product with there some inferences that you could make? was there an increase of traffic to, I don't know, certain pages on your site that just happen to come direct during that exact window? You know, like there's other ways that you can look through, like key kpis that you typically talk about almost from the demand Gen side, but you can also look at them from a customer side to did like you have a log in, say it's software, or did you get more conversations happening with sales or customer success? So it's like identifying all of those signals beforehand. Is Is I think that take his key verse, just like a post event. How's everybody feeling? How do we think it went? That then it gets really tricky, but it's like defining your success up front, and that'll look different for everybody, but some of those that I just mentioned I think are two things to hone in on. Oh yeah, for sure, having clear signals and knowing those ahead of time then allows you to track throughout that whole process and come back with that feedback and then you can adjust the signals for the next event or the next community thing you do. But that's always, I think, the tension and point is where unsure what to measure so then like we don't measure instead of let's pick a few things and then we'll test something else next time. And I love that you said if you didn't have it, like what, essentially, what would happen? Right and looking for the negatives if we didn't have this community event, like what's the whole right? What's the hole that this is plugging? What's the customer experience that we're creating? And I think that's crucial. And also want to throw in the point that I think for early stage companies, customer marketing is something that is not really paid a whole lot of attention to. It's like a nice to have, not a need to have. And if you're looking for something to differentiate on, these are ways that you could potentially differentiate. Differentiate by starting with events, starting with community and I've heard some of those success stories that come from that, because you just you go down a road that and you create that and then demand comes because because of it, and I know Tara loves demand. Jen that's one thing that I learned in this conversation, for sure. Okay, let's let's end the conversation here. Tara, if listeners are kind of looking and they're going maybe they're taking an audit because of our conversation today on customer marketing and they're going to identify some things after listening to that this episode, that they want to take action on. Some up this conversation by giving people, maybe it's some sort of action item or question they should be asking. What should we be doing and thinking about as we leave this episode and the way we think about customer marketing? Yeah, I mean I would start with listening to your customers, if you're not already doing that, gathering the research, get their feedbacks, opinions. They'll tell you, if you ask them, what could aid in their day to day roles at their Org, what success looks like to them and their business and their role. And then start small. Think of one program think of one initiative that you could work together with other teams that your organization, because it should be a share of responsibility and test and try it out. Is that, you know, a customer Ambassador Program? Is that a user group? Is it that half day meet up? You know, something that's really gathering your customers together and some type of community that you're adding more value to. And also don't forget the surprise and delight, because everybody wants to see that their hard work every day. We work really hard all day. You know, they want to see that their their work atters...

...and you need to show that to your customers. Fun Conversation today here with Tara for those that want to stay connected with you and also the work that you guys are doing at get accept. Tell us a little bit about the company and then ways that people can stay connected. Yeah, for sure. So get except. We are a digital sales room platform category leaders which came out from dtwo. So please go check us out. Get ACCEPTCOM and we'd love to chat with you. But you can also find me on Linkedin. So I'd love to connect with anyone listening, for sure, and you can connect with me as well on Linkedin. Love to chat with people about be tob growth, maybe something you learned in this episode with Tara always chatting about marketing business life over there, so just search Benjy bock for that. Tara, it has been a pleasure to have you here with us on on this episode. Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom with us. Yeah, of course, thanks so much for having me. For our listeners, if you have yet to subscribe to the PODCAST, be sure to do that on whatever your favorite podcast player is. We're having conversations like this to help fuel your growth and your innovation, and so we want you to never miss an episode. Keep doing worked that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish medium. Here at sweet fish, we produce podcasts for some of the most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos linkedin content, blog post and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet PHISH MEDIACOM.

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