B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 1740 · 2 months ago

Content as a service, with Mike Ebbers

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode Benji talks to Mike Ebbers , Account Executive at Monte Carlo

Discussed in this episode: 

  • How to create video content that makes your audience feel understood
  • Getting team members outside of marketing involved in creative projects
  • Using content as a service

Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth. Today I am thrilled to have Mike Evers with me, account executive from Monte Carlo, and we're pumped to get to share some time with him. Mike, Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here yes. So I want to talk about your journey a little bit. It's kind of actually your videos on Linkedin. It's what first introduced me to you. Kind of traditional. Traditionally people might be like, oh, videos, maybe he's in marketing, but this is not the truth. You were in traditional sales right and then decided to play it big on Linkedin. Get into some of this video. I want to hear some of that journey in your own words. So let's just start right there, firsthand from you. What's this journey been like, as you've start it to go heavier on on Linkedin from a sales perspective? It's a good question. So it originally started when I first transitioned to software sales in general several years ago, and the general kind of rule a thumb that I guess was just kind of accepted by everybody was that technical people are just gonna hate salespeople and that's just how it is and I didn't accept that. I didn't like that truth, or perceived truth at the time. So I thought, you know, why don't I go connect with people just on a personal level on Linkedin? At the time it was it was real strong, like cold calling culture, and not to say that cold calling doesn't have his plates Um, but we never sourced the deal at that time through Col Collin. I'm gonna try something different. You know, I think about the definition of insanity just trying something over and over with no, with with, you know, no success, doesn't really throw me. So my journey kind of came in a couple of different segments, right or chapter as if you will. So at first it was just posting content and just getting people connected on Linkedin. That was that was pretty impactful for me. At the time. I started connected with people that were technical, Um, you know, at the time. I have to give a shout out to Brandon floory because I kind of mentioned him like, you know, hey, this is my hypothesis, and he allowed me to do it and he encouraged that kind of innovation. So I started kind of building my brand, if you will, just from a personal standpoint. And then I realized that I can, I can amp it up a notch if I if I deliver like both perspectives, like the buyer perspective is I'm now getting to know them, and then also my own right, and so so I think it's a missing element and a lot of the buyer seller relationships. So, you know, I just really double down on that and it was mostly written content. And then when I transition to another company, I started with linked video when that first came out and I had this hypothesis at the time. That's very interesting to see a playout, but basically what Tiktok is today. You know, and someone disagree with me. I don't I don't know. I'm not a big TIKTOK guy, but like authentic raw content. It's not overly like edited. See used to be where people should go. But my perspective...

...was B two, b needs to get there. So I started doing just one day I was like, let me do a linkedin video. I'm just gonna throw a skin out there. I'M gonna try to, like I said, like for set both sides, the buyer and the seller, and it's been history ever since, right. So that's kind of how I've arrived to what I'm at and doing today. I want to talk about a couple of key points in that, one being and the love that you gave the shout out. But being equipped to move in that direction is a big deal because a lot of times, from a sales perspective, I know you're you're moving so fast, you're trying to hit a number or something and you're going, all right, well, I don't really have time to like explore this other avenue that might be productive in the long run, but, like I I can't prove it out yet and I would need someone to like back me up. So talk about that. How did you get equipped to move in that direction, and was it like a twenty at first and like this crawl, walk, run, or how does it move to like no, we're gonna, we're gonna go pretty heavy in that direction. That was a journey of itself and that's that's a really good point. So I still have to get my number right. Even today, like I do more content than ever, but I also focus on actual selling more than ever, funnily enough. So it's been a journey in the sense that I've made some mistakes and probably over indexed on certain areas versus the other. I was inconsistent in times like my most important objective professionally when I'm working as a sales professional is to go hit my number. And you know, at the time, like when I first started this, it really didn't take a whole lot of time. Um, and of course there were people that question and both in sales leadership and then also, you know, even in marketing too. To your point, this is that's the majority of our our audience. Some of the marketing folks were like, Hey, this is a technical audience to really think this is gonna make a difference. But it did take long to create those connections right. So people started seeing, Oh, okay, you're getting meetings with these people that you're trying to go get meetings with, right, like these are like or or at least having conversations. And a lot of times that's that's the missing element. We have either Yes, I'm interested, let me take a meeting with you from a pipeline generation perspective, or complete utter silence, like whatever you're saying, and then it just goes into some abyss somewhere. But there was a medium step that I started tapping into, and then that allowed me to create more meetings for myself with the accounts and the people that I was I felt convicted I could go help, legitimately help right, because I showed that empathy. So, you know, still balance, right. I'm not perfect at it, but I think leveraging my content in a way that resonates with my target audience opens up avenues for me to have real, genuine, genuine conversations and and and differentiate myself as a seller, you know, to to maybe earn the right to have the conversations about their actual business. What's interesting, too, is that you decided to go when talking video specifically, here, you went with like a sketch model. There's comedy in there, and what people think of when they think of you mentioned Tiktok, this raw, authentic video idea. We sometimes in B two B specifically, I know people are guilty of. Oh well, I need to be more authentic, so I'm gonna pull out the video and do like a you know,...

...just got off this call, just did this work thing, and so I guess you could say that that's authentic in a certain way. I had this leadership idea whatever, but it's different than what you're talking about when you're saying I'm gonna show both sides. Right, I'M gonna show buy or in seller. So authenticity doesn't just mean like this raw video of me after a sales call. You knew that intuitively? Or did you see other people and go all right, they're going left, I'm gonna go right. What was the thinking? Yeah, it's when, when video was first launched on Linkedin, almost everybody, like cent of my timeline, was just people trying out this whole thing. You know you're not, because you know this. You would do one of two things predominantly. Predominantly, they would either hop in their car and think, you know what, I'm driving somewhere. It is a great time to do a linked video. Let me just let me just like drop some wisdom in my in my freaking car, right. So that's one. The other was it was maybe even I don't know which was more unforgivable, but they were both really bad. People would just sit there with their phone like right in their face and then they would they would go through this monologue for three or four minutes about we just need to be like strong and confident, and it was all like self help advice and very vapid and vain and it just didn't have a lot of substance. But then they add subtitles to it, so they had to put some thought into it, because the either had to find a tool to do it or pay somebody to add subtitles, because they were pretty clean and I thought this just does not inspire anybody. Right, like why do we think linkedin is different, in that people they want to laugh and they want to learn something and they want to feel something and you're not. You're making them feel some type of way when you're in your car, but it's not necessarily positive. Put you in a positive light, right. So we take our tips right from like the top point one percent of like thought leaders, and the reason that those people are listening to is also because they've built something of meaning. And we go, Oh, well, it's working for Gary v because he's in a car and he's talking going for meeting, the meeting. But it's like yeah, but he can talk about soft skills and these things because he's also built an empire. So there's impact behind his words, and that's where I think so much of that goes awry. It's like you kind of gotta pack a punch and in a real way before you can just jump on and say seemingly fluffy things right. You can make the fluffy things mean something if you build something. There was something that say. There was something you said to me offline that I just thought really resonated and it flows right from what we're talking about. You said focus on content that makes people feel seen, heard and understood. That's been like the focus of these comedy sketches, and that's the buyer and seller showing both sides. What is part of that? Also for you, was not giving an explicit call to action, like I'm just gonna showcase this, it's gonna be funny, it's gonna make people laugh, relationship will be built because of it. Talk about that being a key point, the need to...

...stray away intentionally from call to actions and and and stuff like this. Yeah, I I don't think this is unique to the audience to which I sell predominantly, which is technical folks. Okay, and this has been anywhere from like the networking side of things and like sis admins and it toartsely difficult people to to sell too, because their skeptics, two devops and they want to build everything. And then now you know data engineering leaders who have a very strong engineering or software background a lot of cases, or data science right where. They're just there. They need to be skeptical to be good at their jobs. But people don't like being sold to in general, and the second that you add any sort of call to action, there's a place, by the way, for this. So I'm not saying like you should never do a call to action. That's not like a prescription. I would recommend, but and if you take a look at my videos, you'll see that, like I do that sometimes in Vermonte Carlo. But when people watch something and they just like they can go yes, yeah, I I absolutely feel that crap, like when I get on a call and it feels like I'm just being interrogated by a salesperson and they don't provide any context where they fit in the ecosystem or whatever. Like those kind of types of situations are what bring people out of the woodworks, if if you will, and and really like start to engage with people who, you know, seem like they understand where they're coming from. So that empathy is very powerful and it took a little bit of like, okay, should I just focus on my product? Should I do skits of like real world scenarios just exaggerated, or whatever? It so like it's it's been a journey to get there. I'm still trying to figure it out. Like you said, helping them feel seen and understood is very, very powerful, a very powerful tool that I think people underutilize when they produce content because they're they're so focused on how can I get as many leads as possible right now? Lead attribution, pipeline attribution, deal attribution, it's everything, and then you forget the actual people that you're trying to sell to in the first place. So true, and it's true in sales and it's true in marketing. Like just having that level of empathy, it builds really like genuine relationship over when we know, okay, even if they're not selling me right now, it's probably coming in. Like there's just like this feeling that it just comes along with it, which I'm I feel that on Linkedin all the time and it's it's it's also natural, though. You're kind of like, okay, I'm here, I'm in this space where people are doing business. Like be aware of it and then also show up in your own genuine way. What has building relationships looked like for you, Mike, on Linkedin? How do you how do you go about telling connections like the problem you actually are trying to solve and walking that line? Yeah, that's another journey. I will say this. This is this is not conventional wisdom and this is probably not popular in sales circles, I wouldn't imagine. I've never once regretted waiting just another week, another month to just pop the question like Hey, can we meet? Can we talk? Like it looks like you're focused on something fed I might be able to help with. I'll never...

...regretted it once ever. Just have it is countuitive. But and so my sales leaders have traditionally like, if they listen to this, they'll they'll start laughing because they're like, yeah, I could totally see that. But I have regretted on dozens of occasions jumping in way too early, because you can't go back. You can't go back. Like my my goal is is to just be a good, like citizen. I'm there for a purpose. People understand that. They see account executive. They know like, okay, Monty Carlo, I'm in data engineering at some point. It's going to come, but doing it in the right way, when you've done enough research and built the right to earn that it's been powerful. So I can give you some specific examples. Right. So, just content driven. Here's one. So and it's horrious, skeptic, however you want to what it like. He's he's kind of rough around it. They just a good Bundy of mine now, but actually a VP of debops. At the time I was I was really want to get to meet with him. Um, he started interacting with my content because I added him on Linkedin. Um, I was doing a lot of videos that related to devops workflows. He started clicking, like we just had conversations about life, like real estate and kids and just a bunch of stuff, and I remember when I did finally ask him to meet with me about his company and his devop strategy, he was like yeah, I love your videos, like I should at least give you. That's one example. You know, I also met. This was on my last day at the company, but I met with a CTO of a pretty hot profile software company who I had been talking with and not really about my product for for several months. I think there's probably some sort of timeline or time scale that you can inject based on like a title. In general, it takes a little bit longer to convince a CTO to look at their busy calendar with zero to like double booked for an entire week a month in advance, to go meet with you for thirty minutes. But he finally did say okay, yes, let's let's do this, and it was after videos and like personalized notes on what he was doing at the company and and just him personally. He documented a lot of his like in vlog style, kind of like what he was doing outside of work, and I thought it was super richesting. I loved it. I just I love his parenting philosophy, all these different things. Right. So it's just happened like the conversation and finally got that meeting, and so that was awesome. Right, Um, and there's a dozen of other examples I could probably provide to you. Um, the key point, though, and this is where a skeptic like in myself, if I'm listening to this, I'm going, oh, but there's no way you can scale it right, like yeah, right, so maybe that's where you're going next. So I can I can speak to that. You can't scale this in the in the traditional sense of find a person, find their email or phone number, put them in a sequence and I'm gonna hit five new people each week per person. That's not that's not at all what I'm after. That's I think that method burns more relationships and companies than people realize. So you can go to read it and search your your company name and see that...

...people will in whatever technicals are. You know subpreddit is on there, that your brand actually is impacted by this stuff, like the product looks cool but I will never talk to them because they just keep emailing me right like that actually happened at a company that I worked and and so I'm not after that kind of scale. I'm after scalable, meaningful business relationships and it's never once impacted my my pipeline or opportunities. It has impacted my meeting count because I have less meetings because I put more focus on building the right relationships with right people and that takes a lot more effort, a ton more effort. It's not easy, it's a lot harder, but it's less meetings overall. And I've gone through qprs where that's been called out explicitly. I go back to do I have enough meaningful pipeline and opportunities for me to go hit my number? And to this point it's proved favorable. It hasn't been like, Oh, Mike's got like, you know, one meeting a month or whatever and he has no pipeline and so this just isn't working right, like quantifiably. So I this is had a far more positive, meaningful impact on my career than if I were just doing it the traditionally. You had mentioned off the top that you feel like there is still a place for cold calling. I wonder what you feel like that place is because, granted, my experience is very limited in cold calling, but I did do it for a solid eight, nine months and I just felt like we are, to use your language, like there's so many bridges that we were burning without sometimes without knowing it, but it's like all right, well, I'm a sales rep in the sales rep before me also called the same place and you know the one before that, and we got notes all in salesforce and like we're four deep and they're nervous when we call him because they've called him so many times so then like just getting back to zero, not even to get to a place where you're building relationship, but just to get back to flat, is going to take time. So I wonder like what your thoughts there on like when cold calling actually might be effect of. And this is a rabbit trail, but I'd just be interested to hear your answer. I give you a couple of bullpoints. So I have my perspective and then I have like, like what sales leaders and and and more maybe more importantly, SCR leaders who are in the industry selling too, technical folks, and what their feedback is. So I'll start there with the data. Cold calling works really well and and it's probably working better than cold email by response rate and in like meetings actually, and people put trash amount of time into cold email too. So like the way, if you're good on the phone, you're probably gonna win over a cold email with just like text and people are staring out a screen like I'm just going to delete this, but yeah, okay, sorry, keep going. Agreed. No, that's a great point. That is a very good call out. You know where I where I traditionally I don't. I don't look at cold calling the same like where you have the modern version of yellow pages, you know what I mean, like just going through numbers and just hoping that they do so they even relevant to you're like that's that's, I think, completely gone. What I use cold calling just because it's easy to...

...understand. It's like you're calling somebody when they're not expecting you to get a meeting to talk about your product. And you know, I see it work when people are disarming and when they have a reason to call Um. It can work outside of that, but those are the two things that are really primary drivers to make it it like, really work. The Way I co call is I won't call unless I have a various specific reason and it's generally at the end of like my PG process. Okay, so they want I want them to know who I am first, and part of the reason for this is, I'll never forget this. I had a meeting with Um, with the guy who had never heard of Monty Carlo before. This is recent, and we had a meeting. Wasn't gonna it wasn't going to be a good fit to meet their use cases, which is fine, but he said something when we got when we got off the call, that I hadn't heard anybody like. I've heard people say this from time to time, but he's like, he's like, Hey, thanks for the chat. By the way, I love your videos. Keep making a man. have been watching them and I was like, I didn't fully catch that until I hit leave meeting right on the zoom. I was like, what's it? What it is? Yeah, so apparently he had. He had been following my videos for a long time and I don't know if that's how the connection with it was made or not. Like again, like I don't care about the attribution as much. I want to build awareness for my entire company. We all win. But like that's the power of doing content first and showing the world like kind of who you are and then going and saying, Hey, I know you weren't expecting my quality. Have a second this bike. Evers, would you know you liked my linked in video. By the way, I'm so sorry to see that you support my video. My content is obviously terrible, but nonetheless I'm calling because you know I'd like this. I hear out, you know, a data serveability or whatever, like, like, like those kinds of things I think are very powerful. Um, I also am a big believer, huge believer. I follow Kyle Coleman like crazy on prospecting. I think he's my favorite voice on Linkedin by far Um in that regard. I'm a big believer. Right, just like on the research decide, but then also just having a like a great opener and just practicing, that is, if you don't really care if you get the median or not, and just being a good person. I think that's that's that's a big differentiator, right, but very hard to actually execute. So those are some thoughts. IDE BY COL kin. So in a lot of ways, I think as marketers are listening to your story and we're just diving into some of this on the episode, you would be viewed as like, because you're good at video, you're like a marketer's dream. You're you're being this public, consistent, quality content machine. You're doing this, you're able to drive meetings from it, but you're also building genuine relationship. Anyone in content marketing is going to be excited about that. But you don't go the marketing route when you could have, because then once this starts working, there's got to be people that are on the marketing team going all right, well, maybe we can pull Mike over to this side of things. I want to know, as we...

...start to kind of come up from air in this episode, are there specific ways that you'd encourage our audience as marketers that we could like equip sales teams better? Maybe sales teams where they're not, you know, a mic where they're not going to be all over video, but like trying to take away because again, you can't scale this, and I'm glad that you said it that way. You'RE NOT gonna. It's just not gonna be prescriptive and the same and everybody does this and great, awesome. A lot of it it comes down to mindset and personality and actually like laying out your strategy. Are there some tactical things that you would encourage marketers to do to better equip sales and the ways that we even think about content? So it's a great question, and I know you and I are talking about this off offline quite a bit, this concept of like content as a service, and I think that's the next fronts here. Honestly, Um, I'm living that out right now in my company, like I'm trying to be part of the solution. To your point, not on the marketing team, although I have it is funny like because I do try, people do try to pull me onto the marketing side, but there is a lot of power and just like having the full circle kind of feedback loop feeding my content because it's the missing piece. A lot of marketing focus is so up here they forget like, okay, customers spend with you for two years, what do they think? And so I I pulled a lot of that in there. Um. So that leads to content as service. So people are starting to get there with like memes and gifts and hey, everybody get on Linkedin, on Linkedin at eleven o'clock and we're just going to share this gift that we made. That's fine, I think. I think there certainly is a place for that. It doesn't like maybe a use case I would look at is how how does that convert on Reddit? Because reddit that's what everybody does. They just do gifts and memes and they throw it in the ads on Reddit. And I know the AD services and all that great, but like, I don't know how much of a yield that's had, based on some conversations I've had with marketing executives. So I just encourage marketers, marketing executives. Number one, find the creative minds that want to take this on. Like I love doing this stuff. I just I repped one one time asked me. He's like why do you do this? and My inservice two parts. The first once it works right, and then number two, it's more strategic. He went on to add a third one that I didn't really considered, but he could. He called me out in a good way. He's like, I think he just loved doing it. I was like, yeah, that's actually, that's true, like I'm kind of creative mind. I want to do it. So find those people that will take a momentument just right. Dana, a blue cat, was a great example of this. Like she she's so creative. She just want to try stuff and it worked like it. She was just phenomenal. So find those people on your team. They are great at that. And then, and then, and then, empower them to to go work with the team, to get feedback, listen to gone calls, you know, like get in the mind of the customer and then just start trying stuff. That's really simple. Just try it, just try it right. Authenticity, to your point, doesn't have to be sitting in your car. It can be thoughtful and strategic. Let's take a skit of a I'm in use...

...case or scenario that our customers find ourselves in. And then, you know what I mean, like let's create a little script. And then you've got a couple of people in the marketing team. That's fine, you'll you'll inevitably if you open this up, if you have a good culture, right, but plays into it as well. But assuming you have, um, a kind of a startup, like agile kind of culture, you'll find engineers that want to jump into this stuff. You'll find folks in different parts of the organization that want to get involved. So do the hard work. Figure out, like, the content that you want to create via video, create the script, give everybody assignments and then just like go. And then you can you can snip the content, like your if he likes to do this right, he takes a big piece of content, he slices it up and then it distributes it to all all different sources. You can do that with this. So you can do it in sequences, you can do it right and outreach. You can do this on Linkedin, you could do this on twitter, like the possibilities are endless. But find somebody that is creative, understands God, summers and can and can really drive this right and maybe it's your community leader, maybe it's your social media leader. Just find somebody to do this and take it off, because I think it's really, really powerful. I like the almost looking for volunteers from across the organization as part of this, to just go who can, who's already passionate about it, instead of it like from the top hey, mandating it down and thinking that that's gonna work. Because, yeah, good luck getting actual creativity out of anybody when you try to mandate it like that. But again, if you're hiring is right and your culture is right, there are people in your org right now that would be perfect for this. And for the marketers listening, this is great for us to be thinking about from a content perspective, because other sometimes marketing. I always say this, but it's like so shiny that we won't be trusted in the same way as other people in our organization and their voices, especially if we're really prevalent on Linkedin or whatever our social choices. If other people start showing up, it just creates a different a different vibe, and that's not a bad thing. UH, there's there's such a thing as feeling fatigued from seeing the same person there the same type of thing over and over again. So I think this gives us some fresh ideas. I wanted to ask you about how you source your ideas. You you started going there a little bit, but as far as thinking for new creative videos, you're listening to Gong calls, you're I mean clearly from a sales perspective, you're in a lot of uh situations that then can become videos. But are you just constantly keeping a list Mike kind of I should be better with this. A lot of it is like like Comedians, for example, datories for this, and I'm not funny, but I do like this concept. They just like live life and then they take these ordinary life situations that happen a lot of times and then they build their flow around that. Jerry Seinfeldt was the best at this, wasn't it's the best at this. So I do a lot of that. Right, I'll get off a call. Somebody didn't like that, you know, we started asking questions or whatever, and it's like no, y'all should have started with a dollar or something like that. Like, okay, cool, like I have a skin and I'm actually I have this schedule with one of my friends who is tech and cool, who I've...

...sold too now twice, and we're actually going to record this out. Like that is scenario. So that's one. Just live in life too, is you know, I crowdsourced with Um, with our team, our content team, our marketing team at mind, Carl is phenomenal, Somali and Michael, for example. You know, they helped down a call with me and they're like here's a couple of ideas, like they sent me a script. They did some of the hard work for me. Um, so that's in the queue for me as well. People do send me ideas. The one calveaut to give everybody is, Hey, if you come with like really strong ideas, you gotta be in the video. So you gotta be ready to get in the vote, and people are generally good about that stuff, you know. And then like buyers. Also, like, because I do this pretty often, people start becoming I wouldn't say fans, but like they get involved, right, and they get familiar, it's a probably a better way to say it, with my content. So then they'll reach out and say, Hey, you should do a video about this thing if you considered that. So I source a lot of it from the people I'm ultimately trying to build a connection with which it has been maybe one of the more powerful things. But in the last bucket, and I hate to admit this, this is probably the majority of where I get my ideas, but one day I'll just walk up to the computer, I'll have like an hour, hour and a half, and I'm like, let me just let me just do this thing right. Like a great example of this. My most popular content piece concept that I've had so far over three thousand likes on Linkedin, which tiktok probably had a big deal linkedin. That's a big deal. It was over court. It was it was I think it was like a quarter million impressions that I made on that video, and video doesn't get a whole lot of like viral impressions in it was it was me just being like, you know what, I need to do a video. I haven't done one in a while. Let me just do salespeople talking like and chairs, and it was like I thought the stupidest idea. I'm like, this is dumb. I'm not doing this, but but I ended up doing it and it took me like ten minutes to record in like fifteen minutes at it. It was by far the lowest, lowest barrier to entry piece content I've ever ever done and it was most popular m you know. So those are those are kind of the buckets. Right. I do have a structure in place, but a lot of it just comes from and maybe this is the creative mind to me, but a lot of it I can't like force creativity. To your point. I think it's a spot on Um. So I allow myself to just kind of like wander and then that creates a lot of what what resus? One small piece of that story that I love, that you mentioned, though, is that you had time. You said you had like an hour or an hour and hal and you're like, all right, let me just think of this, and that's where, for many of us we lacked to like either you could schedule time. That's like really simple takeaway even, but if you want your any sort of creativity to have time to surface, you gotta put it somewhere right, like you've got to come back to when would I do this in my my schedule? In my calendar. I This quarter I've gotten more intentional about the goals that we set, the rocks that we set for the quarter, having like a morning every week where people can't set meetings with me. We're all I'm not working on any other task except my rocks. Talk about effective. I have been able to just like man, my pro...

...activity has gone through the roof because, again, it's like scheduled time for that. Same with creativity and something like this. When would you record a video? Well, now I have to show up to record a video because it's part of my my schedule, it's part of my calendar. So that's an easy way to up your creativity and I love that. I want to give you a chance, Mike. Any mindset shift thing you would invite us, and our audience too, as we leave this episode? Maybe a takeaway coming out of your experience and your story that we've we've highlighted here on on B two B growth today. Yeah, I definitely have a couple, I think at first is is I think it's more of a summary of some things that I said, just packaged stuff of the first to find the creativity of the creative minds in your company and let them run wild right within reason. I can't Miss Represent the company and you've gotta be mindful about but empower them. Number two, don't think that your audience doesn't take note when you put really great, again, empathetic content that helps and be seen and understood, even if they don't engage. So a lot of times, if I'm as a marketer, the intuitive direction I would go is just looking at numbers. It's almost like a data scientist, if you if you will right, but you're trying to build a brand. So, like we've we've over indexed on the numbers. How many lights, How many impressions? How many leads? How much revenue has been sourced? Like like, get outside the numbers a little bit and just remember the person. There are companies are really good at doing this and they balance both, and you have to have both. If you if you do one of the other, then you either lose your humanity or your humanity or you lose your effectiveness. Um, so you have to have both, but don't forget, right, the creative side, like don't forget that content that speaks to people matters. I think three is just like offer some of what you do. Like I think a lot of times marketing teams. This happened in the in the pandemic. Mostly a lot of marketing teams who are banking on the big events to drive up like center the pipeline, but probably not that that much, but like a majority of their pipeline for the year from in pursuit events. So like a BS reinvent or you know, some event like that. It got canceled, right. It would otherwise generate a lot of pipeline. Find some of those scrappy, like guerrilla marketing ways to Um, to go get new meetings and and and as part of that, get the team involved, to get the get the executives involved, like the founder led sales. Motion is so huge now. It's the difference a lot of times between whether or not people actually like your company. And there are there are companies that do this really well. So I think outreach is a good exact. A lot of our market more tech right. So like outreach is a good example at this as Clary, I'm a big fan of them. Gong, sales, bloft Um, those are kind of the ones that have have done this really well. Go do that in B two B A few sell the technology people as well, because I have to imagine some of your audiences selling to like people that marketing people might assume that, no, they're not on linked in in and no, they don't care...

...about this kind of stuff. They just care about the details and it's black and white. No, like, they are people too, and they like laughing. You know, it's still satter to them and you'll be a different and that's leads me maybe to my last point. This is a key differentiator. It really is a key differentiator between your competition, because everybody, everybody at this point has a Google ads budget and they're and they're like, you know, maybe we'll do facebook ads, maybe non, depending, you know, if it's a big ASP and large like legacy solution. You know, maybe not. But like they allocate all those these funds to like the traditional kind of buckets of marketing ads and and and tooling and like all these different things, like get into the guerrilla marketing mindset, especially now because efficiency. We didn't talk about this, but efficiency is gonna be huge marketing teams and this is a really good way to organically build that audience for basically no money. You might you might get it to like somebody is going to have adobe, right, the adobe suite on their on their laptop. Right, you already or pain for that, or like Camp Tajia or something. You can outsource this stuff to fiber, right. Is Someone on fiber like you want to do the video editing and you don't have somebody like me that just does it? Well, what's that gonna cost? You? Like fifty bucks of video? Okay, that's worth it. You can use that in sequences. So get efficient, right. This is a really efficient way to do it. Last thing, content is a service. I'm huge. I'm huge on this. Use outreach, go in and put templates or snippets. Right, create this content, but then serve it up to where your strs and the ease can just pull it down and and use it in their sequences. If you're gonna keep doing that, you might as well make it enjoyable for the customer, right. And so that's I think those are some I probably missed some stuff, but those would be my big takeaways. I love that summary. I went through and just wrote those down because I think that goes back through everything we've we've outlined in a pretty sustinct way. Let the creative mind run wild, create content. That makes people feel known and understood. Get you your team, your team and involved in your marketing, and creativity and authenticity can be your differentiator. Content as a service. All really good stuff here, Mike, for people that want to check out your videos, want to stay connected with you, with Monty Carlo. Tell us a little bit about about that up on Linkedin, man, this is a place to uh to get involved in me, semi connect to our class. Send me a message you have video ideas. Happy to happy to collaborate with you on that and always restopted to it. and Uh yeah, from a Monte Carlo perspective, we're pretty pretty all over the place. It's hard to hard to uh miss us on the linkedin decide because we do such a good job just being present right and applying a lot of the practices that we talked about today so perfect well, thank you for spending some time with us, Mike. We really appreciate you from a sales perspective, talking to our marketing audience. I know that it's going to be a really valuable conversation for so many. Thanks for having man, this is fun. We're having insightful conversations like this on B two, b growth so that we can help you continue to innovate, continue to think through how you want to grow in your context. So if...

...you haven't yet followed the show and you're listening to this right now, go ahead and do that so you can stay connected. If you want to chat with me, I would love to talk to you over on Linkedin about marketing, business life and uh so feel free keep doing work that matters. We'll be back real soon with another episode. For B Two B marketing leaders, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. Now more than ever, it's important for us to be connected with our peers. Enter Marketing Squad. It's the sweet fish take on community, and it offers B two B marketing leaders an opportunity to share and grow. Learn more by reaching out to our community manager, Diana Mitchell, at Diana dot Mitchell at sweet fish media dot com. Four.

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