B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2034 · 4 months ago

The Importance of Brand Awareness in Demand Generation

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Lesley Crews talks with Gabriel Ehrlich, founder of Remotion Digital. 

The two discuss:

  • Brand awareness
  • The importance of customer experience
  • How LinkedIn humanizes business

Yeah, what's up everybody welcome back to be,to be growth. My name is Leslie crews here with Swedish media and we arecontinuing our deep dive into demand generation. If you're new here, we'vespent the entire month of april focusing on this one topic trying todefine what it is, what it's not where it's headed in the future and what Btwo B marketers tend to get wrong in this space. Um I'm so excited today tobe joined by Gabriel Ehrlich, founder of Re Motion Digital, A link andadvertising agency. Gabriel thanks so much for coming onto the show today.Thank you so much for having me. It's uh it's exciting. I'm a big fan of theshow. Yeah, well it's awesome. I love what you're doing over a promotion andI'm glad you found me and reached out to me because I think this is going tobe really beneficial to our listeners, so I'm really excited about it. So thefirst question I ask everyone whenever they come onto the show for this deepdive is the same because it has so many different answers and I'm excited tohear your answer. And that is how do you, in your own words define demandgeneration and what it is? I think that one of the reasons why it's kind ofhard to pin down what exactly demand generation is is going to be differentthings to different stages that would b to b companies growth cycle, demandgeneration. If you ask a 10 person uh startup, If you ask their VP marketing,what demand generation is? It's gonna be different than if you go to 1000 or2000 person company That's been around for 15 years. But to simplify my answer,I'm going to say demand Jin is your company's growth machine. Uh and bythat your brand, your company has x amount of demand at any given time anddemand generations job is to increase that, right? So let's say you're notdoing anything, you know, you ceo calls CFO calls and says, hey, you know,we're cutting marketing budget by 100%. There's no marketing budget andwhatever you still get at the end of that, that's that's your demand. That'slike natural what people are looking...

...for. They're looking for your brand,you what you're doing and that's your demand at any given moment. And demandgenerations job is to increase that. And so you do that with, you know, leadgeneration S Ceo and inbound marketing, content social and whatever it is thatyou're doing to actually bring in new demand new new people who wouldn't haveheard of you otherwise. So getting those leads into the hands of your SDRGB DRS and then sales and closing deals that just, you know, if youhadn't done that wouldn't be working with you and that's just on top of anecosystem of your website, your social media accounts, your ads, you know, youhave all sorts of people working for your marketing, operations agencies andSdrs and be DRS and all of that is you imagine. And so yeah, at the end of theday, imagine is a growth engine, you put money, resources time in on one endat the other end, you get paying customers. Yeah, absolutely. And it canbe like you were talking about, I mean it can be really organic to which Ithink is really interesting. It's it's not all just about paid becausewhenever I started this deep dive I kind of thought demand generation wasall like paid social, paid advertising, but it's really not. I mean it can be alot of organic as well, which I think is interesting and that's why linkedinis so popular today because you can kind of do both there. Yeah, absolutely.I mean the whole organic versus paid, you know, dynamic. It's an interestingone, but at the end of the day it's all, it's all marketing and advertising. Andif you can, you know, if you can combine the organic efforts that you'redoing with paid and if if that's what's working for you, you know, I remember II started working with a client once a few years ago that had bootstrap, theyhaven't raised any money and had grown to their first I think 100 100customers entirely through Organic Search us CEO and mostly just throughlike some pretty technical articles...

...that the Ceo is writing. You know, theywere really passionate about their product and what they were doing intheir space. And, you know, the Ceo and CTO occasionally would post on the blog,kind of like there documentation, you know, here's this problem, this is howwe solve it here is that problems that we saw them, it would get, you know,shared widely on social media and in their, you know, their their little,you know, corner of twitter and their, you know, whatever ecosystem that wasrelevant for their industry and that was where they would be getting most oftheir customers and the demand generate. That was whether they realized it. Andat the time that was their demand shin operation uh and taking them and andkind of putting putting fuel on the fire, you know, in the form of ads,that was sort of the next step that was scaling it up. But that first, um, youknow, the foundation of their dimension was organic. Absolutely. And I don'tthink there's, there's necessarily like a right or wrong one. You know, youneed to figure out what is right for your industry, what is right for thegrowth rate that you want to achieve if you're in an industry that, like, Idon't know, and I see this quite often, that is pretty new, but already prettycompetitive and your VCS are breathing down your neck to be, you know, thenumber one, whatever it is that you're doing in your space. Yeah. You're gonnathrow everything you can getting getting growth and and that's usuallygonna involve a lot of uh advertising. Absolutely. And that kind of leads meright into my next question. Um I want to talk about brand awareness a littlebit because I know this is something that you're really passionate about, umand I want to discuss kind of why it's so important and the demand genstrategy. Yeah, I mean Brandon, this is funny. I I used to be kind of a brandawareness nay Sayer or sort of a brand new virus awareness heretic, you know,as a performance marketing agency. I tend to shy away from things that Ican't measure, right. So like when the...

...client would come to me and say, hey wereally want to run this brand awareness campaign years, you know, here's somemoney and go promote this blog post. I would kind of cringe and say really youwant to promote a blog post. You know some people are going to click on it.But do we really believe that this isactually going to create brand awareness to really believe that that'sgoing to create more demand for what we're doing. And I usually try to talkhim out of it, but in the last year, so Lincoln has has come up with somereally, really create tools that I think are fantastic for brand awareness.And the number one, the one that I like the most is using the video ads topromote. Like you can promote video ads now linked into, you know, a newaudience. Uh and then we target to to the individuals, to the users that haveseen a certain percentage of that video. And so now you can go and say, okay,well I want to create brand awareness. I want I want people to be aware of,you know what it is that I do. Instead of promoting a blog post, let's justput that information into a video, let's promote the video. And then wecan retarget to people who have seen, you know, 50 of the video, 75 of video,97 of the video. We can retarget to those people. And if our theory iscorrect that getting that message across to these people will havecreated some brand awareness that should, in theory help us get moreleads so that audience should perform better than a completely cold audienceand sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But now we can kind of measurethat and actually start capturing the effectiveness of that, which allows youto improve and maybe test and try different things. So it's not just, youknow, just throwing out blog posts into the void and you know, kind of crossingyour fingers and hope, okay, I hope this created from some brand awarenessactually you can you can measure it and...

...you can try to improve on that andthat's that's where success comes from. Absolutely. I think that's reallyinteresting. I think it's cool that video advertising is a new thingbecause I feel like a lot of times people are so much more prone towatching a video. I mean personally I'm more prone to watching a video ofsomething than reading something lengthy and it is good that you canmeasure that, that is where that success comes from. And I think that'sreally interesting. Yeah, absolutely. So promotion digital specializes inLincoln advertising for startups. So do you mind telling me just a little bitmore about kind of like what that looks like, maybe some specific examples thatyou've worked with clients on? Yeah, absolutely. So the motion is thecompany I founded almost five years ago started off doing all sorts of digitalstuff for all sorts of companies and its e commerce and facebook's andgoogle's and twitter but really ended up doubling down on linkedin over theyears, mainly because I found that that was where I was able to providesomething unique to an industry that was struggling with that unique thing.And so you know like Lincoln ads for B two B uh I've always kind of felt issort of the holy Grail. And by that I mean you know if we can crack thisthing you then that is you know, it unlocks all of this growth potentialfor for a lot of companies because their audiences on linkedin and theyare engaged on link then. Whereas you know if you're doing enterprisesoftware you can't really target enterprises in a good way on google andon facebook which is you know, much bigger platforms in terms of the reachbut in terms of reaching the right people in the right cos it's just uhit's a lot more difficult and and so a lot of companies start reaching out tome early on once we started the company. Yeah and say hey you know I heard thatyou're the guy to talk to about Lincoln ads were struggling here and that'swhat gave me the opportunity to work...

...with some incredible, incredible beautycompanies here in Israel and Tell V. But also worldwide that probablywouldn't have given me the time of day if I was you know just another BtBagency specializing in google and facebook and have Spot and marcato andso yeah I got a chance to work with judy at gone and I worked with the guysthat walk me just incredible, incredible stuff you need to be overthe years. I worked with monday dot com, I've worked with a bunch ofcybersecurity companies here in Israel and kind of some devops companies andjust really really incredible marketers and companies and what I've learnedover the last few years is number one, you have to look at linkedin for whatit is. It's paid social, it's not search. And so you know, the bigadvantage for through running search ads is that's where the demand exists.You're actually, if you're talking about the management, right, tying itback to the original question, you can tap into demand on google, right?Somebody is searching if you're a cyber security company that specializes in uhlet's say vulnerability assessment platform. Right? And so you can you canrun google search ads for people who are searching for a vulnerabilityassessment platform and you can run ads against your competitors and for yourbrand you're basically harvesting the existing demand for the category foryour product. But what you can do on linkedin is you can go after the chiefinformation security officers of Fortune 500 companies if that's your I.C. P. And you can make sure that you know you get in front of them which issomething that you can't really do anywhere else. But the problem becomesokay so everybody knows okay great. That's where that's where our guys are.But it's expensive right? The cost per click is much more expensive than uhthan google or facebook or display ads or youtube or whatever. It works verydifferently than google and facebook as...

...well. Which means that a lot of timescompanies hire campaign managers. BBC managers with 10 years of experience ingoogle and facebook whatever. And then they say okay go to Lincoln ads and youknow technically it's a similar setup but it's just a totally differentexperience and if you don't really know how to do it right, you're going to endup wasting a lot of money. And so what ends up happening is not a lot ofpeople actually going specializing. So then a lot of companies really, reallyneed help in that. And so when we're working with the startup and we'll workwith start ups that are, you know, not really early stage, usually, you know,kind of after around a or around around, around be where they're really startingto scale up where they really want to start getting more and more payingcustomers. What usually happens is is they'll come to us and say, okay, we,you know, we need to figure out length and weneed to crack this thing here is, you know, who's who we think our audiencesand then what we usually do is we spend at least two weeks researching theiraudience on linkedin. And that's kind of the fun thing as well as I love tojust dig into the client's crn, look at who they're, who the leads are, who thecustomers are, who's who's actually converting, who's becoming an SQL who'sbecoming an opportunity and then going and figuring out how well how would bethe best possible way for us to reach these guys don't like them. And that'skind of the fun part because when we build up those, you know, thoseaudiences, we set that up and then we figure out what's the right content foreach audience, Start running the campaign, start getting leads. And thenthe difficult thing happens when when we have to actually figure out, okay,what's actually getting the sdrs meetings? How do we actually get theseleads to turn into something of business value for the company? Becauseultimately nobody wants leads, nobody goes to the banquet leads. Uh andnobody can I. P. O. With leads you need paying customers. And the only way toget that, at least for, you know, an...

...enterprise sales motion is throughmeetings, meetings, demos, calls, whatever it is that you're doing tokind of move move the lead down the funnel. And so that has proven to belike one of the most difficult things about what we do because it's notreally in our in our hands as much. Right? We're running the ads runningthe campaigns were picking the content work, we're briefing the creative, butwe're not actually yes DRS Right? So, you know, how do you work with theclients sdrs to get them to follow up in the right way for each type ofcontent. And so there's a lot of that involved as well. So it's funny, it'svery, very different than what I was doing when I was running, you know, asfor for google for facebook and other stuff because it's just, it's acompletely different ball game. Hey, everybody Logan with Sweet fish here.If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know, where bigproponents of putting out original organic content on linked in. But onething that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to easily track thereach of that linked in content. That's why I was really excited when I heardabout Shield the other day from a connection on, you guessed it linked insince our team started using Shield. I've loved how it's led us easily trackand analyze the performance of Arlington content without having tomanually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports andgenerate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see things likewhat contents been performing the best and what days of the week are wegetting the most engagement and our average views per post. I'd highlysuggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting out content on linked inand if you're not, you should be, it's been a game changer for us. If you goto shield app dot Ai and check out the 10 day free trial, you can even use ourpromo code B two B growth to get a 25% discount again, that's shield app dotAi And that promo code is B the number...

...two. The growth. All one word. Allright, let's get back to the show. Great. I love I love how passionate youare about what you're doing and something that you and I talked aboutoffline was actually how linkedin kind of tends to humanize business a littlebit. So I don't know if you want to dive into that, but that's somethingthat I found really, really interesting. Yeah, I mean, I love that aspect oflengthen. I mean it kind of gets a bad rap because you know, not everybody issuper authentic and there's a lot of kind of, a lot of jargon and a lot ofkind of having one cell phone ones back. But what I love the most about linkedinis that it really does humanize business right at the end of the day.Yes, there there are company profiles and there are company, you know, newsfeeds, but what people are engaging with our other people and whetherthat's the ceo of a company or it's the VP marketing of the company that youwant to work for or you like, you can approach anybody. They might not answeryou, but they might. And I've had all sorts of opportunities come to me justby reaching out to people that I thought, you know, I would beinterested in talking to, they would be interested in talking to me. I likefollowing companies whose marketing I like and I get to see what they'redoing. Uh it's pretty it's pretty incredible in that sense and where Ithink that, you know, the biggest opportunity lies. And by the way, notjust for B2BI think one of the biggest biggest missed opportunities right nowin marketing in general is just getting more and more of the organization touse linkedin. Because I mean if you think about it, you know, think about Idon't like a bank, right? A bank's marketing is typically very, you know,non human. And they're always kind of struggling if you look at like, youknow, financial services commercials, they're always struggling to likehumanize their marketing, right? And I think that having people, havingindividuals represent their brand on...

...lengthen and tell, you know whatthey're doing, what are they, what are they up to? How are they changing theworld or not, or whatever? Like what are they, what are they getting up toat work? I think that that does so much more to humanize the brand and create aconnection with the brand that you could do with, you know, with acommercial or or anything else. And the fact that you can then reach out topeople and make a connection on a on a person to person basis. That's I thinkthat that is an opportunity that is vastly underutilized right now. I think,you know, we in the B2B space are all over that, right? But a I know that,you know, that's mostly in the tech space. I think that even today, youknow, a lot of more traditional companies, b to B companies as well,they're not using lengthen as well as they could be. And then just justbrands, you know, just big brands or companies that, that have a lot ofemployees. That's just a huge, huge, huge opportunity to connect with yourcustomers, with your vendors, with your ecosystem, with your industry. It's uh,huge opportunity. Absolutely, and not enough people take advantage of that, Ifeel. And another thing just kind of circling back to the manager and I feellike I got off on a robert traylor, but circling back to demand jin, what doyou feel like B two B marketers tend to kind of get wrong in this space? And Ithink one of the things that you just talked about is kind of one of them,you know, not, not utilizing that, not utilizing linkedin enough is definitelyone of them. But as far as like I know you and I talked off line a little bitabout customer experience in that aspect and kind of also like overinvesting and specific things that aren't entirely necessary. So I don'tknow if you wanna dive into that a little bit. Yeah. So typically when Ido an audit for either a new client or just, you know, sometimes a companywill come and say, hey, you know, we're not sure we, are we doing this right ornot. And I'll kind of peek under the...

...hood and I'll see what's going on. Itend to see a few common mistakes and it's, it's interesting that themistakes kind of repeat themselves and that kind of leads me to believe thatthere's some, some pretty major quote unquote best practices that reallyshould be, you know, put to rest. I think that the first one that I seeprobably the most often is around, okay, well you're investing all this money inpromoting content and then you're not really doing anything with the leadsthat are coming in, right? And this is something that I really, I see it sooften that the company will will, will invest, I don't know, $10,000 or$50,000 or $100,000 a month in legion ads on linked in with content. Andthey'll get, I don't know tens of leads, hundreds of leads, thousands of leadsand basically feed those leads into hubspot or marcato and then email thehell out of those guys and be surprised that nothing happens to them. Right.It's just that is by far probably the most expensive in state that I seecompanies doing and that I think it's wrong. It's just not it's not whatpeople want. It's not what your customers want, it's not what yourmarketers want. It's sort of a a Frankenstein of marketing technology,best practices and and vendors and agencies that have kind of pushed thison people for, I would say 10, 15 years and it's just it's not working. I don'tknow if it ever has. I I assume it must have at some point, but right now I seevery, very few companies that, that is something that is working for them, atleast for paid ads leads. The other thing. And so that kind of ties intothe other thing, which is, okay, well, what should you be doing and that'sworking with the Sdrs or the BDR is however, you do that in your company towork the leads in the right way. And by...

...that, I mean, well, not every lead iscreated equal and not every asset is created equal. And to build a kind ofdynamic playbook to reach out to leads in the right way at the right time over,you know, the right cadences and everybody says that they do this andthen you take a look and they don't a lot don't, most don't, unfortunately,it's sort of, you know, it's what they all kind of think they should be doingand they believe they should be doing, but they don't. And what ends uphappening is it kind of becomes this one size fits all thing, and not allleads are going to work for that. I think the other thing, a lot ofmarketers are not getting right is sort of kind of over investing in one thingor another, whether that be, you know, spending way too much too soon on adswithout investing in sales and that I think is a huge mistake. So if you'regetting a lot of leaves and you're not, you know, you're not investing in theright people to follow up with those leads, that's a big mistake. But also,I see a lot of companies kind of over investing in their tech stack way tooearly on and get the basic stuff right, right? Get to the point where you're,you know, you're getting leads and you know how to properly measure andanalyze that the relevancy of those leads, you know, do we like these leadsdoing not like these leads and then figure out the right way to measurewhere, you know how they're moving down the funnel, which again, like everybodyhas the tools, everybody has hubspot or Marcato or Salesforce, but they're notusually set up right, at least not set up to work with a at scale themanagement program. And then when that starts to scale, you really start tosee those those leaks in the funnel and those leaks in the process. Uh so thatI think also like just not having the right, not having set up the processesin the right way. I think another big...

...thing is just not not investing in theright stuff like the right content. You need good content. And, you know, I'malso this is also one of those things that I've, you know, I'm kind ofcontradicting something that I've said to people in the past. But yeah, we canpromote any contact, like we can promote a two page solution paper andmake it, you know, convert because we made a really great ad, but that's nota great experience for your lead, that's not a great, you know, that'snot going to create a great brand experience. Uh so you need to invest ingood content and I think that a lot of people think that they're investing inyour content and they're not, they're spending a lot of money on writers anddesigners and they're putting out, you know, an e book every month or so, butthey're not actually creating something that people would actually want toconsume. And you mentioned, you know, hey, I don't really want to read a book,you know? Exactly. I think of myself, I think of the amount of e books that Ihave actually read My career as a marketer, I think it's maybe two or 3ever, and I think the first two were probably really, really early on in mycareer, I was just kind of trying to figure stuff out and one that like Iknew was going to be really, really good and it was put out by the guysthat need to be instituted linkedin. They have some incredible content and II printed it out on paper and I took it with me on a vacation, I just want tohave something to read um with me and I knew that I wanted to read that. Ithink so few people actually create content that their audience would begenuinely interested in printing out and reading and if it's not that goodthen don't do it or either try to get it there or figure out another tactic.And, and that's I think another big thing as well. You know, people assume,okay, well our competitors are doing,...

...you know, e books, we have to do ebooks. No, you don't. You need to do what is right for you at this stage interms of what your budget is, what your resources and what is going to get. Youhave to think about the process that will get you, not just no, the rightasset that you need right now, but if that worked and you're going to needanother one in a month or two months, what is the process that you need inorder to do that? So maybe it's webinars, maybe it's e books, maybeit's, you know, uh, surveys, but you know, try to figure out stuff that,that you can repeat at least, you know, every so often. Otherwise that's notscalable. You're gonna have to reinvent the wheel every quarter and everyquarter your, your CMO or your ceo or you see if they're going to come andthey're gonna be like, hey, you know what have you done for me lately? Andit's gonna be, you know, you're gonna be stuck, you're not gonna know what todo this quarter because last quarter you have that great, you know, webinarin this quarter, you don't really know what to do or each time you're tryingto reinvent the wheel, it's, it's kind of, you're kind of trying to find a hitwhen you don't have the formula. So try to find the formula. I guess it's thebiggest thing get real. This has been so insightful to me and I know that ourlisteners will benefit so much as well, so thank you so much for coming on theshow and um where can people find you online if they're listening and they'reinterested in learning more about you or promotion? Yeah, I mean, naturallyyou can find me on linkedin if you search for Gabriel Ehrlich, which isspelled E H R L I C H, but you can also check out our website, It's free motionR E M O T I O N dot IO or our emotional Lincoln. Right, well, thank you so muchbecause it's been so insightful. Thanks again for coming on GDP Growth. Been anabsolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Can't wait to hear it. Okay. Is your buyer at Bdb marketer? Ifso, you should think about sponsoring this podcast. BtB Growth getsdownloaded over 130,000 times each...

...month. And our listeners are marketingdecision makers. If it sounds interesting, send Logan and email Loganat Sweet Fish Media dot com.

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