B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2103 · 9 months ago

How to Book Meetings with Dozens of Target Accounts (with Your B2B Podcast)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Logan Lyles, VP of Customer Experience at Sweet Fish Media, talks to Ryan Kelly, VP of Growth Marketing at Domino Data Lab & Author of Florence the Data Scientist and Her Magical Bookmobile.

Resources we mentioned:

- Naming Your B2B Podcast

- Choosing The Host for Your B2B Podcast

Yeah, welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan Lyles with sweet fish media. I'm your host for today's episode and I'm joined today by Ryan kelly. He's the VP of Growth marketing at Domino Data Lab. He's an experienced B two B marketing leader. He's the author of Florence, the data scientist and her magical bookmobile Ryan. Welcome to the show man. Thanks Logan, excited to be here. And yeah, let's, let's do this. Absolutely. What we're gonna be talking about today is some surprising results that you and your team at Domino Data lab have recently seen. And basically it kind of flew in the face of this idea that if you have a BdB podcast and you want to feature not only current customers but prospective customers, decision makers at your target accounts. It's actually easier than people think to get those folks to say yes when you approach them in the right way. So tell us a little bit about what is this commonly held belief that's out there and what did you guys see that caused you to say, Hey, we actually disagree with this based on our experience. Yeah. I mean the one thing that comes to mind immediately is people like talking about themselves, right? Um, so a lot of people even introverts we've seen through our experience to where if like you handle my mic, you know, they'll, they'll open up and yeah, that that was the initial sort of like hypothesis and there was a lot of friction even within our space in particular, we sell and market to a very technical audience data scientist. Um, and that's the show that we focus on data science leaders. So I've often found these like internal memes or cliche where like technical folks don't want to talk to sales, they don't want to talk about themselves is just garbage and is an excuse by most marketers. So yeah, we haven't seen that with our show. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I talked to a lot of B2B marketing leaders and they're like Logan of course you guys that sweet fish, you can use this strategy that you talk about it. Sweet fish of content based networking where you don't just create content for your ideal buyers, but you created with them because one you get 1 to 1 relationships that can map to sales opportunities very directly. And it makes your content better because you, as I heard john Bernini say on a podcast last night you become a journalist more than a columnist because you're sourcing it from the people in the target market. So it actually makes your your content better. And they say, well, Logan is very easy to get a marketing leader on a podcast, all of us, marketing folks, We love talking about ourselves. We love talking about the customer facing stuff that we're doing. But but you guys right and give us a little bit of context, you guys decided to launch Data Science Leaders your podcast at Domino Data Lab. And what would have been the results? Who were the personas that you guys were reaching out to? What are the things that they're talking about? And what kind of surprised you is you guys started doing this outreach with that context? Yeah, Great questions. So, Data Science Leaders, we kicked around a couple of names for the show. A few trendy ones and some that were maybe funny or interesting angles, right? But we always just kept coming back to, you know, you have two seconds to catch somebody's attention within little show note or swiping through itunes or an email or on social, right. And you better be damn sure that they know what that show is about like within the title really quickly. Right. So, you know, data science leaders was actually a that's what we call a core persona that we sell and market to here at domino. There's only two others and it just made sense. Right? That's who they are. They are data scientists who are leading large scale teams, typically within Fortune 1000 Fortune 2000 organizations. And you know, that's that's what we went with. I love it. You guys followed one of our frameworks in or one of our top goals in naming a podcast is always to make it clear to your ideal buyer that they would want to be a guest on the show without any...

...further explanation. Without reading the full description because who reads a full description in apple podcast of of a podcast, especially when someone comes out of the blue and said, hey, do you want to speak on this on this podcast? So tell us a little bit about some of the early results. I mean you guys booked in in pretty short order, a few dozen interviews got about half of them recorded and tell us a little bit about the timeline. Once you said, okay, here's the name of the show, we're gonna start running outreach. Most of our guests are going to be decision makers at target accounts. Um, how did you go about that? And what were some of the results along the way? Yeah. I mean, I think the first step if you're going to try to do a podcast as an A B. M strategy, you need to have that target account and that named countless ready to go right. Um, that's that's the sort of framework now, don't get me wrong, there's lots of goals that we have related to the podcast that are outside A B. M. But a b M is sort of that like P one in terms of a priority for a goal is to help us generate awareness within these named accounts. So have that list. Right. And you know, we we have that we have a named account list of domino um that we're already working on trying to get penetration into for for a long time. Right? So that that framework already existed here with that, that was great. The second thing is just like really I love a good plan, very process driven marketing leader. So how are we going to conduct outreach? Right. Are we going to use a third party to conduct the outreach to maybe give a little bit more credibility to the show or are we going to do it internally? Like in my mind, that's really your two options basically. We went to decide like, let's let's do it internally. And the reason we did this is because we had a really strong BDR team who's already pretty good at like booking meetings with, you know, the core persona data science leader from within these named accounts and remember their booking meetings trying to get somebody to take a sales call or sales demo, Right? It's a really tough ask, right? And, and they're still there, they're being successful with that. Um, and really helping, you know, t up those opportunities for an account executive. So it's like if they can do that, just imagine if you give them a much better offer, which is like Cumbia guest on this podcast, right? Like I'm like, yeah, like that, that you should have a lot higher conversion rates for, for that offer. And we did. Yeah, I love the way you frame that there, especially with like, hey, if you already have a rockstar str BDR team or even one person on that team, like going to them and saying, Hey, you're crushing it at this. Let me throw you some softballs. What do you think about this? Right? Yeah. And they are soft balls. They were softballs. Um, and it's, it's, we, we booked, We had to stop booking guests. We booked 26 guests before the show even launched. Um, and like, so the BDR is like, we didn't even have stuff to send them. We had some copy descriptions of what the show was going to be about and what we're going to focus on, but like They couldn't see it on itunes. Like they just have to take our word for it. And luckily, like we do have a good reputation in the space. Um, you know, we have a decent amount of awareness, but it just blew my mind that we were able to book like 26 guests from the named account list before the show even launched. And we have this killer backlog now that we're just working through. I love it. And I think part of that has to go back to what you mentioned earlier. You name the show around your buyer. But I mean you named it for your about your persona. So it was, it was super clear so that when people can't look it up on Apple podcasts, they don't see maybe the cover art wasn't even done. I'm sure for a lot of those bookings, it wasn't, there was literally nothing to show them other than trying to communicate really clearly that this show is about people just like you. And if you have that in the name, as you said, that can...

...be really important to the success or failure of at least a b. M. Part. If that's priority one for you in launching a B two B podcast. Um, so tell us a little bit about from there, okay. You went to the BDR team said, hey, work with us on this, we're gonna give you the opportunity to hit some softballs. What was the process for booking? Like what were some of the things that you guys did that either surprised you or you would recommend? Hey, do this. Not that as you start this outreach start with the named account list. You've named the show after your ideal buyer. You start running outreach. What are some of those things there? Right. Yeah. I mean it's just like again, having those like pretty clear swim lanes and the BDR s new, this persona, they knew who fit this definition. Right? So there wasn't like they didn't need new guard rails because the guard rails were already established. Like they knew who the data science leaders were at these organizations. So start with that, right? Like really have that very defined guardrails of like who do you want on the show? The other thing that really helped was if you can get some friendlies booked in early and some names, right? It could just help with credibility for guests outreach. Right? Even though we didn't launch, we could say like, Hey, we have X, Y Z lined up. They're going to be the early episodes. We really want to get you in and get you booked. So try to get some of that external credibility early on. The other thing was it's all about getting the incentives right? So the BDR team here at Domino is essentially comped on what we call like qualified meetings. Um So qualified meeting is basically like is it is it within our I. C. P. If it's on the name of the countless, it's clearly within the I. C. P. And then, you know, is it that target persona? Um And then like do they show up? Right? And then the a basically just like scores that meeting and it counts as a qualified meetings. So that's how we like that's how the BDR s, you know, I don't love the BDR s but lots of folks in sales and SDR spdrs, you know, their coin operated. So that's how our coin operated machine work. So I basically got this cross functional alignment with our VP of GTM ups and our BDR director and I'm like, hey, let's just give me one BDR and like let's calm for the same for for podcast meetings, right? So like if the podcast meeting occurs and we shoot the episode, She counts as a qualified meeting. It's honestly in many ways better than a qualified beating. Like it's a 45 minute show, there's like a pre call that we do with the guests, like they're super aware of domino and we also just learned so much about the account and how they think and you know, there's a lot of discovery going on inside it as well. So yeah, we just plugged into an existing system that, that was up. So the BDR, you're not like begging the BDR in terms of like, hey, do this outside of your main hustle. It's like this just plugs in. Yeah, yeah, please give us some time. Yeah. And you're, you know, pull away from trying to trying to hit your number. And I like what you said there a lot of times these, if you're doing two calls with decision makers at your target accounts to have them on your podcast, you're building some awareness brand affinity. Even though those calls aren't to qualify them and book them for, for a demo. Obviously they know who you guys are. They probably looked you up to see, hey is this company legit? Is this podcast legit, which you might have had to convince the monks show isn't live yet, but you're also doing market research, Not to mention all the content that's coming out the other side and how great that guest is going to feel when you got a 32nd video featuring their face nice and prominently and a few graphics that you can give to them to share on social as well. Like they have some brand affinity towards domino data lab throughout. And at the end of this experience, talk to us a little bit about some of the tactics around you and I have talked off line a few times about, you know what we call proactive booking, how to make sure you don't lose people between the pre interview...

...and the recording call and some automation that you guys put in place to make sure that the episode actually happens. Because there is some of that that you want to, you want to increase your show rates just like going from one sales call to another. Right? Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, again, the process is pretty simple, right? It's like the BDR has a cadence. They have a couple of steps that they use for outreach once somebody's active and responds favorably. And typically it's not a guess on the spot. They'll, they'll ask for more info and now we have the show up and can send them links and episodes and stuff like that. So it's, it's gotten even easier, but the guests area, this sounds cool. Let's do it right. Um, and the one caveat there, there's a lot of friction even within these enterprise accounts where it's like, hey, I don't know if legal is going to approve this. Like, I don't know like if our Pr team needs to get involved and just like objection handling with the B. D. Are, you should have that objection handling objection handling in a sale cycle. You should have that objection handling like ready to go for this, right? So I think that's important as well. But once they get over that hurdle, it's just the BDR sends a calendar invite without even asking what time's work basically 3 to 4 weeks out. And it's like, hey, I send you a calendar invite. Like if it doesn't work, just like click this link to move it, whatever works for you, right? Um, and they just move it and the host, the important thing with the host Is they block days. So let's say you block like Tuesdays or Thursdays from 2-5 to do these pre calls and to shoot the actual episodes. So the BDR knows like I'm just going to book meetings in that slot like 2-3 weeks out because they know they're open because they're blocked for this very purpose. Um, and then sometimes it works and they're just accept the invite or other times they just rescheduled using the calendar, the link. Right? So, so pretty, pretty straightforward process. Hey, everybody Logan was sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of BTB growth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show, but you may not know that. I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the past few months and what used to take us four hours gathering contact data now takes us only one where 75% more efficient were able to move faster with outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them out at lead I Q dot com. That's L E A D I Q dot com. All right. Let's get back to the show. I love it. The one part I think for some people is not necessarily straightforward because you know, in sales and in this process of booking podcast guest a lot of times are like sweet, we're using hubspot meetings or chili piper or as you said, cal only a tool like that. And it's like sweet. We got someone on the hook, give them a link, make it super easy. And you and I talked about this because we, we've gone internally the way we book podcast guest is the exact same way and you guys have implemented it with your show. We do it in our sales process. That sweet fish. Don't wait for them to, to book a meeting. As you said, proactively put something on their calendar. Look at their time zone, right? Don't put it for six a.m. Eastern right? Or something like that. Give them a few weeks out and give and just say, hey, I just went ahead and put this on your calendar. Not completely unilaterally because you've already raised your hand and said, hey, I'm down for this. You put it on their calendar and you give them an easy way to reschedule. And what's crazy to me, rain is oftentimes they see like the times that they just accept it. Sometimes it's like eight out of 10 and then if they don't, they just reschedule it, right? Because if it's an email and say and you're asking something of them to respond and pick a time, we think that that's making it easy. But it actually adds another step on there part and that means more friction. But if it's just, hey, check and see if this is good and then hit...

...except it's a little, it seems in some ways it's the same, but it's not, it actually will increase your show rates. And then one thing I think you guys are doing is from the pre interview with the host, make sure that the host schedules the recording call before the guest leaves that pre interview call because that's another conversion point that you can really get wrong if you don't do it that way, right? Yeah, exactly. And you're just trying to remove as much friction as you can and optimise your chances for successful conversions, right? And even this was a rock star BDR who was really good at booking meetings and even she was very apprehensive to just her calendar invites out on peoples and then like she started doing it, I'm like, just give us a shot. And she's like, oh my God, Ryan Yeah, it's working like this is awesome. And the important thing, like, like don't kick that invite for like a week out, right? Like nobody's calendar at, at this level Of an executive if you're going for is going to be free like next week. Like my calendar is already slammed for next week. Like there's no open slots, right? So if you, but if you push 23 weeks out, good chances, like it's probably not going to be much friction, right? Which is why you have that eight out of 10 accepting it. And then, yeah, like at the end where they've already established this report with the host at the end of the pre call and you have that relationship, you know, five minutes. You're opening up your calendars. When does it work? Like all right, book it like we're done. We're good to go. And there's like basic automation, there's two kickback emails. Once there's one for the pre call, once that pre call goes out and that calendar invite goes out. It's like, here's what to expect for the pre call, here's what to do. And then same thing with the podcast booking, like the second like you have the booking for the actual show. Another email goes out with steps of what to expect for the actual show. What was really funny when we started doing this, we actually realized we never told people it was going to be on video. So I'm like, oh, we gotta add that into the automation. So like the first guy who shows up is like totally not prepared to do video, but he was a great sport and was like, all right, I'm gonna go change like maybe shave put on a proper shirt, um and get ready to go. So there's definitely going to be bumps around along the road. Yeah. And you and I can attest to that. I had to stop at the beginning of this recording to go get my dog from the other room because he was barking at the window. You know, those sorts of things happen. That's what makes it real, right? And that's why people love to consume the content because it feels real. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's one reason why we push back so hard against these super, you know, almost overproduced podcasting style because it's part of what people love is. You get to be a fly on the wall in the, in the conversation, there's a little bit of humanity. Maybe we'll find a little clip of, you know, if we can hear me yelling at the dog during our pre call after we had hit record. Well maybe we'll include that in the episode somehow here. Well, Ryan, if people are listening to this and they're like, okay, you know, we have a podcast, but we haven't been focused on getting decision makers at target accounts, but you know, content based networking and using the podcast as an A B M I think could be, could be right for us or we don't have a show yet, but we've been thinking about a podcast and now that we kind of see a use case here to go out and get decision makers from our target accounts on the show, kind of convince them that it's more likely more possible than maybe they were thinking before. What are some of the ways they might get it wrong if they're trying to follow your advice? Um, what are some of the potholes along the way that they should look out for? I mean, get it, get it wrong is like, it's not a, it's not a direct like legion channel, right? Like you're not, you're not going to be able to take these subscribers and listeners and like generate, you know, MQ LZ Rescue ALS or whatever it is. So I wouldn't necessarily go into it with that expectation. However, you know, we use, uh, call recording software on a lot of our sales right on like, you...

...know, chorus are gone, giving those two companies to shout out, right? And like what you'll probably start to notice is people mention the podcast, like in, in those forums, right? So you can track like maybe how influential the podcast is on deals, but it's not, it's not a direct response channel, right? And I think that's important. Um, so have have the right expectations in terms of goal setting. Uh, and then what else getting it wrong? Like, I don't know, we've, we've talked a lot Logan anything else I screwed up on during this, during this journey. No, I think you guys nailed the show. I think if you don't kind of take your advice, which we're going to echo as well, because we've talked a little bit already about how getting the show name wrong could completely, you know, take you from a great response rate to a very low response rate. And then you could say, hey Logan, Ryan, I tried what you said and it didn't work and we would probably say, well, your name isn't clear, of course, it's not working right. And I think something important that you pointed out earlier is get by in an alignment from sales and from your BDR str team one, if you're going to get the BDR team involved to help with the guest booking, which I think if you frame it the way that you said earlier, Ryan can be extremely effective and then get alignment with sales on. Okay. As you mentioned the listeners, the subscribers. This isn't going to be a always a direct lead attribution. I like what you said though about having the sales team asked that question. So maybe that's one of the things you get alignment earlier. Hey, we're doing this podcast thing and there's gonna be two ways that we can see pipeline from this, the guest relationships. So let's map out some sort of follow up cadence with, with sales to add more value, not to make a direct right hook right after you featured them on the podcast, but also inbound leads asking that question, hey, have you heard our podcast and one if they haven't, sales is helping you get more subscribers and if they had then they're seeing the value that marketing is giving to them. That hey, this podcast thing is influencing inbound leads, right? Yeah. And there's there's so much you can do with it. And that's what I love about the format, right? Because it's like, yes, it's helping us generate awareness from the named accounts in an A B in motion. It's also helping us like just with general awareness and thought leadership in the space, right? And and building a community and building an audience. But the third is also the contents indication, right? Like taking all these clips, putting it on youtube, putting on social, like the podcast clips are like some of our most successful posts on social from an engagement perspective and then repackaging them for blogs for S. Ceo and putting them on the site, right? Um and then even promoting like, other events or offers within the podcast, right? So it's just this like, I love I love the format, I love the channel because you can do so much with it. But the one thing that we did a tough john and it's like, we want to get that sales alignment and it's it's still very difficult and we haven't cracked it exactly about how do we take the guest from the named accounts and turn it into an opportunity to turn into revenue? And we're still early on our journey there, and it's very much again, like a, like a long term play, right? But we're seeing we're seeing early success with it and I'm really excited about it. But you you you have to again have that process and have those guard rails because the second you drop an episode, do you necessarily want the ae being like, hey, do you want to take a demo? I heard you on this podcast, right? Like you want to, you want to think through that motion And we're really, we're really not trying to like being switch people, right? Like, you know, sure if you're interested in domino after being a guest on our podcast are looking on our site, like, great, great. We're happy to take it. And the crazy thing is we're seeing those hand raisers like through guests...

...were already booking. There was a guest yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a guest fortune 100 brand, like big, big guy, like top of the totem pole in terms of the persona, who the video, I reached out and he was intrigued. He responded to her. It was like, hey, is this just gonna be a sales pitch? Like I don't, I don't want to do this. We don't have any relationship with domino. Like if this is just a sales ploy, like really don't want to do it. It's like, look, no, not at this point, we want to hear your story how you build teams your day to day challenges. Like what's next in data science for you? What frustrates you about the space? Right? So we just like hit on the core themes from the show and he's like, sure cool. Like I'll do it. I'll do the pre recording call. He does the pre recording call literally at the end of the pre recording call, he's like, and we barely talked about domino. He's like, yeah, well you guys are doing sounds like really interesting. Maybe I should get a demo like after this. So like the guy went and he's like, no, not interested, don't want to do this. He's like, does the call and then he's asking for a demo at the end of the pre recording call. And before we even launched the show, before we even do an episode, so blue blew my mind. That's fantastic. I mean, it just goes to show that if you genuinely go to the people that you, that you want your sales team to be able to sell to and you just slow it down a little bit and say, look, we want to build a relationship with you, we want to feature you, we want your expertise to be shared with this audience and us as a brand and us as a marketing team. We're really trying to be journalists and you know, not just kind of put one sided single perspective content out there. We do want to feature you and guess what, the relationship building and that brand equity happens along the way. So even though you say, hey, it's not a sales play, it ends up being a sales play. But the more we focus on the conversion, the harder it is, the less we do then, the easier sometimes those do actually turn into sales conversation that I think that that story sums it up so well. All right, you guys are doing some fantastic stuff with obviously the podcast, data science leaders, you guys wrote a Children's book is, as we mentioned, give us a little bit about what you and the team are up to more broadly and how people can reach out, stay in touch, find some of your contact, what would be the best ways for them to, to reach out, find out more about domino. You didn't ask it, but I'll ask you and give you the chance here as we rounded out today, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, no thanks for having me. This is, this was a ton of fun. So yeah, folks can just connect with me on linkedin. That's a platform where I'm most active. So it should be, should be easy. There's a ton of Ryan kelly. So at that, at that domino uh, search term to that. And then what I'm up to and most excited about, we have a huge uh, annual event that we put on, which is again called like rev it's rev three ml apps, leadership conference, going to happen in person in Chicago this fall and is going to be awesome. We have like some amazing keynote speakers lined up. It's going to be a great event if you're, if you're in the space at all. And so check that out. There's a save the date and more info on that is, is coming soon. So that's the thing I'm probably most excited about and we're going to shoot podcast episodes at the event, right? So bring it, bring it back, bring back full circle, right? And as you, as we book these speakers for the event that were happening, Like, Hey, you want to do a 45 minute podcast episode while you're already here, right? And like, probably, well I know we'll get at least a dozen episodes in the bag. Like over the over the 23 day show, you guys are going to have to crank up the volume soon, going from a weekly show with, you know, the six month backlog that you've got a conversation about that. But if you, if you want to put my, my other, my other one thing, my, my biggest, we debated a little bit about like who the host was going to be, but we had somebody who was like, I think is going to, I had my, my pole position person early who I wanted and luckily he was bought in and...

...he was super excited to do it. Guy named Dave Cole. The one thing when you pick, I've seen teams debate a lot about like who the host should be should be Ceo should be like whoever, right. If you're going internal with the host, it should be the person who's going to care the most, who is going to care the most about this thing and pick that person, right? Um, so my most important advice when, when selecting the host and the show name is super important and who you have as his host is going to be incredibly important as well for his success. That's such good advice, Right? And we've actually got a video on each of those in our B two B podcasting course, that's totally free. I'm gonna link to those in the show notes, you know, not directing you towards some paid content or anything there, but you know, if you're listening to Ryan and you say, hey, this, this framework for naming our show, we're thinking about a podcast, I need to follow that. So I see these response rates and I can have the same success that domino has had will link to that as well as picking your show host because I couldn't agree more. Right? I think in the video I recorded for our horses, like, don't pick, you know, the most charismatic, the most Oprah like, or whoever, you know, looks most like Jimmy Fallon or has that late night FM DJ voice. It's about who has the buy in, who has the passion to be able to tell these stories and is excited, like you're not dragging them along because things can easily flameout no matter how much industry knowledge they have or credibility or they've got that great voice is really about, are they committed to this because the other things will come along with it? Right? So, exactly, I love this, I love that you shared, kind of, your, your steps in this process, obviously had some great winds and looking forward to working with you guys in the future to really double down on those, but I think regardless people are going to get some value learning from your experience. Um and that great story of seeing content based networking, using your podcast as an A B and play with the guests work out really well, even when they're like, hey, no, no, no. So this has been fantastic. Always enjoy every conversation with you, man. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. Mhm And Sweet Fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the internet for every job function and industry on the planet for the B two B marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, but text me At 4074 and I know three, Just shoot me. Their name may be a link to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1705)