B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast
B2B Growth: Your Daily B2B Marketing Podcast

Episode 2100 · 2 months ago

Stop Waiting Until It’s Perfect

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, James Carbary talks with Bill Kircos, the VP of Global Marketing at Honeywell.

Marketing moves fast these days. Don’t let perfection keep you at the back of the pack.

Bill shared a framework for launching a campaign that WORKS:

  • Get it to good enough
  • Test it
  • Then, perfect it

Yeah, welcome back to be to be growth. Myname is James Carberry. I'm the founder of Swedish Media and we are joinedtoday by Bill Kirkus. He's the VP of global marketing for Honeywell Bill. II've been looking forward to this conversation for a few weeks now. Andwhen we when we chatted offline, we were talking about something that youwere really passionate about. We were talking about this idea that we have tostop waiting until it's perfect before we get a marketing campaign to market.So I'm pumped for this conversation. Welcome to the show. Thanks James. Iappreciate you having me. Yeah. Did you know the whole mantra here is don't letperfection get in the way of good enough. Yes. You know, we kind oftalked about perfection almost being an enemy. But I laugh with that introbecause if you're talking about your spouse, would you want to marry someonegood enough or if you're talking to your kids about grades, you tell them,you know, just do good enough in school. So it's a it's a tricky topic that thatI am passionate about. I'm glad we're talking about it today. So thanks forhaving me. Yeah. So yeah. So tell us, just give us a little bit of context.Why is this something, you know, Honeywell for those that aren'tfamiliar? You guys are Fortune 100, right? Yeah. So Fortune 100 brand, uh,you know, massive company. Why is this something you're so passionate about?To me, it's the evolution of marketing. And so, you know the simple way todescribe that as in the old days, we are all really subjective marketers,right? I think this ad looks good. I think this color is right? I think thismessage might hang and now everything is digital. You can measure everything,right? And so the idea here isn't to say good enough, meaning the quality isjust gonna be average and you leave it alone and let it go. The idea here isthat you can launch quickly with what you have and quickly optimize based onthe results of the KPs, you're getting back. And so that's kind of a, you know,the idea behind good enough is it just...

...doesn't stop. You don't launch and walkaway. Like in the old days we all called it what? Pray and spray or sprayand pray, right? You know, mass marketing and hope people call here.You can really fine tune and add to your campaigns almost hourly if youreally wanted to. So you you were telling me on our last call, this kindof three part methodology, you know, it's good enough test and then perfect.Can you walk us through and maybe share some examples of what that methodologyhas looked like? Honeywell? Yeah. And so, you know, a good example is, um, soI'm just a big fan of engage and see that that I guess you could call that abuzzword, right? But you're right. So you put a campaign together and I'llpreface this with you. Do kind of have to obsess about voice of the customer,right? What do they need and value proposition. Right. Those you got to,you know, spend a little bit of time. But once you have those two things, youcan launch a campaign and again test it, right, that we all have a B testingcapabilities now. So you're getting feedback back on that advertisement orthat message that you're doing. You have ways to check websites, right?Heat maps and all the where people are going and what they're surfing on andthen you launch it. And then again, you add and optimized to it. And so I'm abig fan of this. So I I use it and we can talk later about even in hiring, Ikind of apply this method, which again sounds a little weird, right? All thisperson is good enough, but I can walk you through that, but a good examplewould be um, we have an interesting campaign that's actually not even asales and revenue campaign. Were experimenting again, engage in C right?And we're trying to work on a technology that lets airplanes take offand land faster, but it's an upgrade that both airports and airplanes needto do. And so, um number one, our target market here are airportsgovernors, you know, staff, local staff government, right? It's not yourtypical sales job in terms of targeting a customer. And what we did there waswe said, well, let's let's test this...

...thing, Right, let's start out, we didjust a really kind of bytitle linked in very, very targeted campaign. And wewatched how that went over the next 24 hours. And sure enough, we were reallythat surprised. But we were getting really good website engagement and evenrequest for more information on some content. We gated about the topic. So,we kind of knew we were onto something. Okay? So then we're saying, okay, whatelse can we do besides linked in? Well, you know, there's a whole bunch ofdifferent retargeting tactics you can do uh contextual advertising a lot ofthose different things. So we started mixing that in. And then we said, ok,well, now, what about um what can we do pr wise? Well, what about uhcontributed article that talks about the benefits both to passengers andairports, right? in terms of faster takeoffs and landings. So now we'regonna mix in an editorial and contributed article. And so you justkeep going and doing these things and as you're doing them, you keep lookingat the Lincoln results. Are they working, are they working better thansome other types of social media or contextual advertising we're doing? Andthen you take that and re optimize it to the audience is um, that are showingthe most success in terms of engagement. So, ahead of this campaign, I'massuming you had a pretty good idea of what success was gonna look like. Doyou have that pretty well laid out? Or is it uh, is a lot of qualitative stuffthat you're looking at to assess whether this is something worthcontinuing down? Yeah, that's what it's a good question on this one. I'm gonna,I'm gonna really tell you, we experimented and so certainly successwas making sure we got that product in some local government and airporttrials and to the extent that there needs to be legislation. We did that.But I'm going to tell you it was really kind of an experiment, right? We didn'tsit there and say we need this many visits this many number of impressionsbecause we were targeting audiences. We don't often do. But another campaign wedid. Um, we, we've developed ultra violet wand. So think of a one that youwave over a seat, an airplane seat and it helps with germs, right? It's agreat product during and post. Covid to...

...clean an airplane really quickly andreally easily. But that one, again, that's a good example of where welaunched the campaign added tactics. Um, had really good messaging. Like I justtold you the value props pretty easy, right? It's, you know, we really quicktime and low cost. You can clean your planes, um, from, you know, from germsof covid and other types of flues and bugs that we would all catch. But thatone we are looking at the results and we had very specific goals. We wantedthis number impressions about this number of websites, you go down thesales funnel and this is the revenue and lead opportunity pipeline we wantto create. And that's actually an example of great product, greatawareness. I'm sure it was great branding for us and Honeywell, but weweren't generating the leads in revenue. And so we kept optimizing and tweaking.And that's an example where we felt we ran its course and you know, and justsaid, look, we're gonna have to cut bait and divest in this area becausewe're just not generating the leads that we wanted to. So you have to havethe, the guts to stop things. You know, when things aren't working, you have tohave the guts to stop them just as much as you want to start or optimize aswell. Absolutely. So with was this approach, this idea of, you know, goodenough, then let's test and then let's perfect. Was this something that youhad to do a lot of coaxing to get your team on board with internally to beokay with this? Yeah, I wouldn't even say we're very good at it. I thinkwe're okay at it. Everyone can tell you we want to do it right. But if you lookat the first of all, any of us that work in marketing were perfectionist,right? You can't have a typo and add your press release has to be factual.Your website can't go down right? Five nines reliability. So we're trainedfrom our lives to be perfect. Um, and so when you go and tell someone launchit this way, you get 80 90% of the way there and then perfected as you goalong, huge culture change. And then on top of that at Honeywell, the aerospacedivision I represent were managed by pilots and military. Most of ourmanagers are pilots and military...

...experience. We'll think about that,right? And you know, safety first. Don't take risks. Don't go outside thebox. Just a number of things you run up against that. If you go into a meetingwith some engineers, right? An engineering company and say I want tolaunch this because I think it's good enough. The, you know, the heresy looksyou get are pretty crazy. So it's an ongoing behavior, behavior change. Yeah.So so bill for other companies folks listening to this, they're wanting toimplement this approach. They know we've we've got to get more out thereso that we can actually experiment more because there's probably something outthere that's working that we just haven't tried yet. And unless we wereally build the muscle of getting more out, then we're leaving lots ofopportunity on the table. How could these companies that want to implementthis methodology? That's good enough? Test perfect methodology. How how couldyou see them getting this wrong? I think it's something you set up frontfirst is which is it's easy to say this just opens up more, you know, we'llhave more capacity to do more work. And you could fall into that trap of stillwatering things down so much that you're not getting tangible input. Forexample, the work that's being spent now is less so on the up front, but onthe optimization and the analytics and all the optimizing you do when yoursenior analytics. That's quite a lot of work to go optimize and change yourcampaign is real time data is coming in. So that would be the first trap isdon't think this is just a way to do more. I just think that the work shiftsa little bit. Um the second thing is, is All of us can get into analysisparalysis, right? Oh, I'm seeing a trend um that this webcast is great forgenerating website, videos and leads. But this ad isn't running, let's go do15 pages and you know, a deep dive on why that is well, if you're waiting tothree weeks for that report on that analysis, you could have probably donetwo more webcast and reinvested some of...

...your money. That wasn't working reallywell. Right. It's just this constant optimization. And then the last onewhich we do struggle with is automation is your friend here. If you if youdon't have automation, you're now manually pulling a bunch of reports.Right? I'm going to adobe or google analytics. I'm going to my social mediasites. I'm going here, I'm going there. Salesforce Marcato. It can be heavy,heavy workloads. So automation is definitely your friend when you'retrying to do this makes sense. So I want to come back to something youalluded to earlier bill around how this methodology can apply to hiring, what'sthat look like for you. Yeah. And it's something I learned years ago. I was Iwas at Intel before before Honeywell and Intel has and I still think theyhave it they have this amazing awards ceremony once a year and they awardedthe employees that do, let's say the top 5 to 10 best results of the company,right? But at the time, the very last result was an award for someone whofailed and fails, not the right word. It was really a risk taking award,right? But literally it was someone who took a risk and try to start a business,tried to start something and it failed. And that really, that really capturedme. I really thought that was a really neat thing. And so you talk abouthiring, right? I think we've all probably been in interviews, especiallyagain at the Fortune 500 level where you've got an interview with 5, 10, 15,20 people, right? Or the HR person three times. And and that and Again,it's the focus on perfection. If I have 15 people talking, I have very littlerisk that I'm hiring the wrong person, right? But you know, especially rightnow, the way the economy is and how we're all competing for talent. If Iwait two months to try and hire someone, you know, if they're that good, they'regoing to find another job. And so the philosophy that we have is um higherfast and fire fast and again, fires a bad word. But as long as you're settingthat expectation up front, hey, we're gonna do three or four interviews indepth ones, right? We're gonna do our due diligence, but we should be able toknow if we're gonna be able to make an...

...offer to you in a week or two weeks.With the understanding though, that we want to see how you perform in the joband if you're not doing well, we'll agree to part ways. Um, I just thinkthat's a much better way to get talent on board, teach that lesson right upfront, right? Hey, we're going to move fast good enough. And let's see how weoptimize or go down the road. I think that's a good message right out thedoor to Yeah, So I've heard Sara blakely, the founder of Spanx, talkabout how one of the most formative things that her father did for her wasgoing around the dinner table every night asking all of the kids how theyfailed that day. And it just taught her that failure is not a bad thing,failure is the thing we're trying to, I mean the more we fail, that means morewe're trying and the more like the more at bats were taking. And so I love thatcall back to that because I, ever since I've heard her say that I've told thatstory probably, I don't know, 10 or 15 times since I've heard it because it issuch a powerful concept. So getting a little bit more granular here whenyou've got a role. So you've got the job description like how granular areyou getting on the metrics that you're expecting from, the person that you'rehiring so that you can set clear expectations to say, hey, this is thisis what success is going to look like when you're here. And if if we're notseeing these results, then you know, we're going to have to part ways prettyquick. Yeah, that's one thing I really admire about Honeywell. We call it anmos managing operating system. The company's managed really well in thatfashion. Right? And so it's an easier answer for me to give you now atHoneywell because I can typically tell someone uh, this is a campaign managerjob. It's in this area, let's call it business jets, right? We expect plus orminus. You know, the whole funnel, right? All the way down to sales, leadopportunity pipeline and revenue impressions, that kind of thing. Sowe're pretty, we're pretty nerdy. But you can set those expectations up highagain, acknowledging that if the budget changes the market changes, we're notgoing to hold your feet to the fire to...

...a goal, that something has changeddramatically. But for the most part were pretty specific on the on the joband the very specific deliverables that are that are due on it. Bill, this hasbeen fantastic. I really appreciate you sharing, sharing this with ourlisteners. If there's somebody listening to this and they want to stayconnected with with you. What's the best way for them to go about doingthat? I answer to just about anyone and anything. I probably, I probably justshoot me maybe, I don't know, work email. Why not? Right. It's a honey job.And so I go by William dot Kirkus said Honeywell on that Bill. Maybe they hidefrom people that way, But that's probably the best way. But seriously, Imean social media linkedin. However you want to find me. I'm a pretty easy guyto find wonderful. Well, Bill again, thank you so much for hanging out withus today. I know our listeners are going to get a ton of value from this.And so I really appreciate you. Well, I appreciate the tip on Spanx with myChildren. Perseverance is a big deal for me. Yes, learning about failuresand how you persevered is awesome. So I think I've learned more from this thanyour listeners are going to hear from me. Thank you. I appreciate that.Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks James. Take careof. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. At Sweet Fish. We're on a mission tocreate the most helpful content on the internet for every job function andindustry on the planet. For the B two B marketing industry. This show is howwe're executing on that mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would bean awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call mebecause I don't answer unknown numbers, but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8.Just shoot me. Their name may be a link to their linkedin profile and I'd loveto check them out to see if we can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.

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