Automation Ideas to Create Magical Moments for Prospects with Dan McGaw

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Dan McGaw about overlooked marketing automation techniques that B2B companies can use to create magical experiences for their customers and future customers.

...accelerating value by proof analyticsis the podcast for marketing, communications sales and operationsleaders who want to see their business value clearly and succeed. Learn howleaders are closing the gap between creative work and business impactthrough raw conversations. Don't believe me. Check out the show foryourself from the CFO perspective it's value is what type of revenuegeneration earnings cash flow that is only adding to the growth of the, ofthe enterprise. You know, another dimension would be how our marginsperforming are we, you know, we're getting the right value by seeingmargin expansion by creating products services that are generating, you know,that incremental value to the organization. And I think from my lens,you know that it's monetary in many dimensions, right? It's not, you know,thinking about, okay what say from an employee perspective, otherperspectives. But as a leader, as the finance leader, as you're looking togrow the revenue earnings and cash flow of an organization, it will only createmore opportunities for your employees, for your suppliers, for your customersbased on those services that you're creating. So to me that's how I view tobe value for more. Subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome back to be to be growth. Myname is Benji block here with sweet fish media and over the past severalepisodes we have thrown it back to some classics. We have 2000 plus episodes inour catalog. Always free to go back and listen to whenever you want But thoughtit would be fun to pull some of those for you and the last one that we'regonna pull for 2021 is a conversation that Dan Sanchez had with Dan McCall.This is a Conversation where they talk about marketing automation techniquesthat B2B companies can use to create some magical experiences for customersand potential future customers. So this is a nerdy one that's kind of why Iliked it. They get into the weeds and uh they give away some automation toolsand ideas that I think are really fun to listen to and could be helpful foryou going into the new year. Hey hope you have a great New year's and have afun time celebrating with friends and family. Let's jump in to this throwbackepisode of B two B growth. Welcome back to B. D. B. Growth. I'm dan Sanchezwith sweet fish media and today I'm joined by dan mega, who is the founderof Mccall dot IO and to kick it off today dan, I like to come up with justinteresting questions for our guests that they haven't been able to preparefor. And so today I want to ask you like what is a fun new marketing toolthat you've discovered recently and it's kind of like a fascination to youright now. Oh, that's a fantastic one...

...because I discovered tools like all thetime. I think there are two tools that were probably playing with the mostright now is either convert flow dot com or write message because we'rereally trying to make sure that we can tailor that customers experiencethrough progressive profiling, Those are probably the two biggest today.Nice. I kind of figured you were a tech guy tool guy. And the reason why Ifigured that is because dan is a technical wizard. His company isfocused on marketing automation and helping b two B companies with theirautomation and making it better. In fact, he says it's not enough just touse marketing automation because it's there, but you want to make sure youuse it to make magical experiences and that's what we're going to dive into inthis episode. And I have to give you some for warning that if this is gonnaget pretty technical, I'm a technical marketer myself and I'm probably gonnaask some technical questions. So if you can't hang in, just you know, listen toit on double time, that's probably gonna be some amazing nuggets and ideasand small case studies. But we'll probably be digging into some stuff,I'll probably be asking some technical thing. So just giving you that warningahead of time that this is going to be a very geeky episode. But the firstthing I wanted to dive into is he was talking about in the pre interview whathe's doing with text messages and I love marketing automation in SmSbecause let's be honest, a lot of people ignore email but very few peopleignore SmS when they're getting a text message there, checking it generallywithin 15 minutes. And while they're very simple, you can still load linksin there, which in multimedia, like you could still do quite a bit with textmessaging. So I don't see a lot of people doing nearly enough of it comingfrom a B to Seaworld myself. We were heavy in this and I'm curious to seewhat dan and his team is doing in that realm, dan tell us what you're doingthere. Yeah, great question. So, I mean text messages a lot of fun. I thinkwhat we try to focus on the most is like one of the, and I'll start with aneasy problem that we really faced is I do a lot of speaking in public beforecovid happened. I went to a lot of conferences and a big problem you havewhen you're out in public is you need to be able to capture leads and whenyou're at a conference and you speak in front of 1000 people, you're notgetting any leads from that right? The conference has all that unless you buythe leads list. So the initial problem that we started out with is I need theability for somebody to be able to text me something that would be fun. So theycould get something free and return. So something that they're gonna get. Sohey, get my slides because everybody's like, hey go to my slides a bit leethis and like whatever, nobody goes to the bitter like, so we decided to comeup with something easy, which is like, hey listen, if you text Martek to thisnumber 4159159011, I'll send you a free copy of my book and my text but we'lltake care of all the work and people are always like what I get a free copyof your book if I text this number and what people didn't realize is when theytext that it actually connects with our marketing automation to autopilot. Soautopilots connected in with Twilio when it sees the word Martek, itcreates a new lead record in our system. So it saves their phone number for usand then the first thing it text back to them is hey thanks so much forasking for a free copy of dance book, what's your email address? Just in caseif we need a way to follow up with you and where are we going to send thetracking information for that book and...

...people would respond back with danImagawa Dario, whatever their email addresses and because we're usingautopilot that gets saved as part of their lead record. The cool thing is isthat autopilot bought would look for that, save that in the field and thensend them another question. So as an example, what's your first name, what'syour last name, what's your address? What's your city and all that stuff.And it would go through this full conversation and they would send us allof their information and then it would end up with, hey we've got all of yourinformation, click on this link and confirm it for us. So of course theywould click on that link. They then go to our website, our website thenautomatically identifies them because we have their email, it pre fills outthe entire form because of all the information they gave us and all I haveto do is click submit and the book is automatically shipped to them from ourwebsite. But lo and behold we just captured their address, their name,their email, all of that stuff and personalize that experience to themnaturally they get the book, they're super impressed. They feel magical.They have a boat, they're all pumped up. But the interesting thing for us isthat we follow up that with as well as additional communication with themthrough that tech spot. Again, we also follow up with them via email. So wenow we're gonna start to approach them through various channels. But what'seven more importantly is we identified them on our website. So we're able tocookie them on their mobile device. So now anywhere they go, they see my adand they see my face all over the internet basically to buy our servicesand we're constantly trying to close that loop in other places, but that'san easy first stab at some of the easy stuff that we've done on SmS, which isjust a lot of fun. It's nice. I like the fact that you can go from speakingon stage to getting them through this essentially mini funnel, because theystill have to go through a little baby steps through the bot, right? I'm sureyou have follow up systems if they give you their email, but then they don'tgive you the address, then probably an email kicks in to ask for the address,right? Um to help them finish it up if they don't because there's probably adrop off right each step. But then it's kind of like they get, once they finishit, like, man, they probably go through the gauntlet because now you have theirphone number, you have their address, you know, where they came from, youhave their name and you can hit them on all the channels, hopefully addingvalue along the way, but they're not gonna forget you. That's for sure.You're gonna be following them around for some time, which is pretty nice,especially if you're following with good value afterwards. What are someother creative things you've seen in text? Yeah, yeah, really, really goodquestion in regard to that. So we do a lot of types of reminders of peopletext 11, you have to be able to get their their text message right, andjust heard some other easy sign up stuff like we've recommended a lot ofpeople use text message for their loyalty programs. Right? So instead ofbeing like, hey, sign up too stupid long form that I want you to fill outon paper, my brick and mortar location and I'll give you this plastic card,just say, hey, sign up for a loyalty program. Text loyal to this number andthey're automatically added. So we've seen a lot of companies basically dothat. And then after they actually get people into that loyalty program,they're trying to connect the dots, of course using their pos, what they startto do is then of course actually send those people, their promotions,whatever they may like basically through that system. So of course ifyou're a snow cone or an ice cream company, right, you're naturally goingto be able to send people free promo? S get them back into the store. Hey comein with this text and we'll be able to...

...give you these items. Those are some ofthe easy ways to be able to kick those journeys off. But the big things thatwe try to focus on with text because I think the problem with texas that youhave to remember, it's annoying as hell, right? It's not like email where I canignore it. If I get a text message, I'm immediately looking at my phone. So ifit's spammy, it's not going to be something I pay attention to. So wehighly recommend for people to do it mainly based upon somebody requesting atext reminder. Somebody asking to be reminded about something or some sortof behavior trigger. Right? So when you get my book gets delivered to you as anexample, you'll receive a text message saying, hey, just so you know, we weremade aware that the book arrived, check your door, let us know if it's nottheir reply, yes, if it's not there. But as a second area of that, you'regonna get a text message from us also five days later, that's gonna say, hey,listen, we just wanted to see if you had a chance to start reading the book,respond back with five if it's going to take you five days to read it andthings like that. We're trying to constantly be able to captureinformation, but we're also trying to make it so that they can also tell usto go away. But we're not trying to send them constant promotions becausespam in your inbox is even worse when it's in your sms and all they have todo is respond stop and you're blocked forever. So it's, it's really, reallyhard. Yeah. So it's interesting. I've always wondered like it's it's not hardto continue a text message campaign if they've started with text because youset the expectations from the beginning, they've given you permission to get intheir inbox. Have you ever found an excuse that's like not cringe e butlike a good way to start initiating text message conversations because youhave their mobile number. How do you get them from being an email subscriberor someone who's just visiting your website or they're interacting with youin a different way to text message if not first initiated there. Yeah, I meanthe common thing that everybody does is they just start just start texting them.Right? So, but the way that we try to look at that is we try to associate itwith something that they're gonna want to be reminded about something which isgoing to create value. Just telling me I get 20% off via text messages. That'snot where our relationship is started. That's chances are I'm just gonna hitstop, right? Because I'm not that interested in their 20% discount. Soyou really do want to make sure that it's focused much more on something.That's timely. Something that's an important reminder in our company andI'm gonna try to use our company cause I can't tell you all the things I talkabout with our clients, but it's gonna be, hey, you signed up for this webinar.The webinar starts in an hour, here's a link. So that way, if you can't make itto your desk, click on the link and you can see it from your phone. So we'rejust trying to use them as helpers. And I think that's where I see a lot ofcompanies kind of go wrong is they try to use it as a hardcore marketingchannel. Yeah, it's definitely more utilitarian. It's a utility tool. Ifyou're looking at it that way and how that marketing automation can work, itcan be an assist to the marketing. Do you ever use it for content though?That's something I've wondered, I've seen Gary V experiment with it andcreating communities and stuff like where else have you seen content asplayed in text messages? There's definitely a content service out thereand I can't hear what it's called. Gary V I think is one of the people thatsuper something around community. It's like community dot Co, I can't rememberwhat it is, but basically like people, you text it and then you get part oftheir community. So whenever they put out content and text you and makes youaware like, hey, join this thing. I'm not a big fan of those just becausethat's not how I use text messages, but...

I do know that like when you have afans only account, maybe you will send text messages to get people to be awarethat you have new content, especially when push notifications are turned off.So there is definitely that opportunity once again for most of the use casesthat we see that are really being helpful. It's about somebody wantingsomething from you on that channel, right? So they really have to have aneed for you to send them a text message and they should be the one whobasically designs that. Right? So that's gonna be like, once again,somebody needs something, it should be a value add to make the experiencebetter. So that way they can be alerted or notified because that's, that's thething we have to remember. Text is not a marketing channel, it's acommunication channel. It's really, really done differently than emailbecause an email, you have an inbox that you don't check with text, youalways check it. So it's a much different medium. So it's really got tobe about like important and timely messages that need to be looked at nowas a podcaster and marketer. I've certainly been thinking about how touse texting with podcast because obviously they're usually listening ontheir phone, their phones on them and they're on the go, which means they'renot going to be going to a website necessarily unless it's really goodright now. But it just seems like a good opportunity to get leads or towalk them through a different part of the journey or at least to get eveninvite conversation to invite questions on a podcast episode. It's not live,but I don't know, something interesting. There probably something we'll beexperimenting with it on this show in the future, but we'll see, can I giveyou an idea. Sure. So there's two things that I would look at in apodcast. Right? So because naturally I do lots of these, I do 4 to 8 podcast amonth. Right? So I see a lot of these amazing shows. There's two things thatwe would automatically look at just like that conference situation, right?I don't have any access to the people that are listening to this. They arecompletely on their phone and we have no connection to them. So, like I saidearlier, go to 4159159011 and text that number Martek and go through that. Butwe'll look now. I just got all the leads from the people that are in youraudience, right? Because they they want a free copy of my book. So that's thenatural obvious one to go for now. In your case, an interesting thing that Iwould highly recommend if I was doing a podcast which hopefully we're going towork with your company one day to do a podcast. I joked about that earlier, Iwould roll out polls because since everybody's listening to this at adifferent time, you have no way to have a web interface and say, hey, why don'tyou click on this thing Now, if you said, hey, listen, what I want you todo is we want to find out who on this podcast is things SmS is the next thingI want you to text Yes, 24159159011. If you are interested in rolling outpodcast and text. No, if you're not. And then when that podcast response orachieving that text message comes in or you can use 10 different variables.Whatever you want to have is the promotion. Just respond back withwhatever the results were of everybody that's listening to the podcast andyou've just created as a podcast owner away to capture their information,their lead information. But you've also made something that's engaging whichprovides the listener value, which is I can give this response and see what allthe other dodo birds that responded to this as well did as well. Which is thatvalue of knowing the survey response.

So lots of different ways to do it inthat. And that's where going back to the point of sMS, stop using it as adamn spam channel, right? Like use it for something that's engaging. We havethe technology and it's not even hard. That's good. What tool is your favoritetexting tool? Um, I know you said Twilio and autopilot though. I findthat it's been a while since I've been on that combination probably over ayear. I found it pretty limited as far as what it could actually do unless youwere like a Twilio developer of some kind. Are you customizing the heck outof Twilio or is autopilot actually added more stuff to be able to do thaton. Yeah. So it's, I mean don't get me wrong, the connection between Twilioand autopilot can be a little confusing. Right? So definitely like hire a $50 upwork developer and they'll be able to make sure that you get going if youcan't figure it out on your own. But the actual application that you useinside of autopilot is actually pretty robust. So hey, you can receive a textmessage when it has this variable save this here. It doesn't do any likeparsing or anything like that. So there are some like kind of things you haveto work around. I think text it was the other one that we had seen a lot ofcompanies use and then um, when you're like a big enterprise company right? Ofcourse you can build whatever you want, we see for a lot of e commercecompanies them using a company called blue shift, their customer dataplatform. But that's more about sending compared to receiving. And that's thebig difference is not all the services allow you to receive, They allow youjust send, yeah, actually prefer long codes versus short code so that you cankind of fly under the radar a little bit better and people don't know shortcode sometimes I don't know if you've run into this, but people like they'relike, wait, what, where's the rest of the numbers, especially if it's likebaby boomers or something. They're just like we're missing numbers. I'm like,so I like giving the long code. It actually seems more like a real number,especially if I call from that number, which I don't think you can call fromshort codes. Right? But a lot of times I might follow up with an actual phonecall from the same number and we're already in a texting conversation. Theyrecognize it, take the call versus not right. There's a cool technology that Iforgot about, especially for salespeople. It's called sales message.So sales msG dot com, Not to be confused with the msg from bourbonchicken, but sales msg dot com, they're integrated in with hubspot. There'sthis pretty cool, my buddy chris bryson owns that company because it allows youto have two way conversation from your cell phone and things like that throughhubspot but mainly used for sales. That was another really cool textingtechnology, which I see a lot of companies using now awesome. Heyeverybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDPgrowth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show but you may not knowthat. I also head up the sales team here at sweet fish. So for those of youin sales or sales ops I wanted to take a second to share something that's madeus insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For thepast few months. And what used to take us four hours gathering contact datanow takes us only one where 75% more efficient. We're able to move fasterwith outbound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so mucheasier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well.You can check them out at lead I. Q.

Dot com. That's L E A D I. Q dot com.Alright, let's get back to the show. So moving on from text. I wanted to learnmore about you said direct mail and I just got excited because honestly evenas a digital marketer, I know that like if you can hit direct mail well like asnot in sending mail to people who have no idea who you are but you're using itas part of your funnel, it's magic because people don't expect it anymore.You send a letter and you're a tech company. It just blows their mindssometimes even if it's boring, they still notice it. Right? So what are youdoing with direct mail and automation? Yeah. Really really good question. Andonce again like you don't have to do this with autopilot. There's multipleother technologies that do this. There's a company called lob dot com.So L O B dot com that makes direct mail really really easy and basically youcan use their product if you import your emails and home addresses to it,you can basically send whatever you want. You can do batch and blast andstuff like that. So what we've tried to do is make sure that we actually add tothe customer journey by using direct mail. So as an example when somebodyorders my book, we manage that through a direct mail integration in withWindows so and lob and as well as some other services. So when somebody doesthat text message experience with us, we get their email address, we also gettheir direct mail address. So naturally they're going to get a copy of thatbook and they're going to receive a digital experience with us. That'sgoing to happen online through email also through retargeting and thingslike that. They're going to get a copy of my book and then if they don't docertain actions or if they do do certain actions, we're going to thensend them postcards. Those postcards are going to be tailored to them andone of the common ones that we use is we learn the technology that your siteuses. So just to use my business as an example because it's really easy. Wespecifically sell the companies that are trying to improve their marketingtechnology, marketing automation or analytics. But we like certaintechnologies. So if you're using segment autopilot or amplitude on yourwebsite, we know that we have an integration with built with thatdirectly integration with our site, integrate them with our sales force andour autopilot. And what happens is when you give us your email and has a domain,it pings that service and tells us the technology you have, if it sees one ofthose technologies segment equals true, it's then going to take that variable,send it over to autopilot. It's then gonna put in, hey joe, we noticed thatyou're using segment on your site. We recently sent you a copy of dance freebook and we sent it to this address. We just wanted to make sure that you havea flyer about some of the information that we want to teach you about segmentright? As an example they then get this direct mail and the first thing they gowas like how did they know I use segment Right? How do they know I havethese technologies? Is anybody like waving the creepy flag and calling youback or is it more as a good or bad? I'm sure there's some people that arefreaked out by it but most people don't really think too much about it but wedefinitely have one of my talks is about creepy. So if you want to see thecreepy flow text, creepy 24159159011 you'll get something creepy in youremail as long as you are not in the Martek flow but yes, sometimes peopleare like how do they know this stuff...

...but that's actually where the magiccomes from, right? And that's what people really, really look for is whenthey were getting they get something that they never expected could bepossible. And that's where the magic really comes into play. And thosepostcards tell you the four reasons why you should use a segment or the fourreasons why you should use amplitude. And it resonates with them because theynaturally have that technology and it connects them directly with us becauseit wasn't something that they were expecting. So that's just one of theways that you could use direct mail. You're doing anything beyond postcards.And postcards is kind of like, it's just showcasing what you do and howmuch information, you know, I mean, it's kind of nice for you guys becauseyou can put that information to use and it's almost novel in itself, but I'dlove to hear if it's possible to get like one case study of direct mail thatyou're using for a customer without trying the customer's name or whatever.That's not a marketing automation technology company, like how you'reputting some of that information to use and direct mail. Yeah, So we work witha large insurance company. They do auto insurance, home insurance and thingslike that. So what we have is we have a direct mail service which isimmediately attached their salesforce Marketing cloud, Salesforce MarketingCloud basically when an attribute happens, we send a web hook over to thedirect mail service. The direct mail service is basically sending out thoseletters. So those letters that are sent out to those people are basicallybecause they hit a certain credit score because they have a life attribute. Sowe're basically pulling in data from all kinds of other third party services,whether that be experience or anything else like that. These are basicallypurchased lists as that data comes into us. These are former customers orpeople who are in a prospect list as that data is coming to us And we'restarting to see that somebody is above 700 credit score or somebody recentlypurchased house. What happens is market or excuse me, Salesforce Marketingcloud then sends an api call to say send this direct mail mailer, those areall gonna be enveloped mailers because they are things that we don't want thepublic to see. And inside that mailer may say congratulations on the newpurchase of your home. We're here whenever you need to have homeinsurance or auto insurance, things like that because this insurancecompany is selling to hire more fluent buyers. They're not like trying tocompete with Geico when somebody has a higher credit score, we're gonna sendthem auto insurance quotes, things like that. So there's a lot of differentways that you can leverage those technologies. But I will say whenyou're working with a large insurance company like this, it's nowhere near iseasy because they're using like old archaic systems but definitely allstill really, really possible. And the last thing that I would say that Iwould love to do is that we like taking data from all kinds of enrichmentsources and using that. And there's a technology out there. It's called SmallBody I think is what it is. It's a small business enrichment service so itknows all the attributes about small businesses, but it makes it really,really easy to get the fire signals of what's going on there and then theaddress and then you can send direct mail to those people and once again,you can do that using autopilot or any other technology that's integrated inwith lob to automate that whole experience be interesting to see evenusing it as an A. B. M. Campaign if you had a list of ideal buyers but didn'tknow as much about them as you like.

What kind of sources are usuallytapping into to enhance the information around their, their company or theindividual buyers within a Yeah. Just to make sure I understand. So you haveone lead at a company but you want to expand out to the entire account andtry to get other decision makers involved there too. Is that kind of thequestion right. Or just more information about the company? Like howbig is the company? How many employees they have if they're public. Like whatwas the revenue? Like how big company isn't Exactly, it's right. You canscrape list from things like angel list, but you don't always have all the ifyou'd like. Right. Yeah. The most common one that people were using for along time is a company called Clear Bit dot com. Uh They integrate in withSalesforce market, all that stuff. They have a great A. P. I. They have a CSBimport thing and clear but would enable you with an email address toautomatically be able to get anybody's information right? So you can get fordemographic, demographic and techno graphic which is really valuable to us.I now know all the technologies that are on your website which is supersuper helpful even if you're not in a business like me knowing thetechnologies that are on another businesses site really helps youunderstand how much money they're willing to spend because if they haveadobe analytics they spend a lot more money on on things compared to googleanalytics free. They're not willing to spend any money. So it definitely goodsignals for other other people. Clear. But a really really good technology forthat. I would also recommend built with built with dot com which isspecifically for knowing the technologies on people's sight eventhough that they focus on that they still give you all of this metadata fordemographic information for a very low cost. So they can be really reallyhelpful naturally. You have like discover or zoom in for all the big bigbig players in the space but full contact dot com is really reallypopular for demographic. Not as good on the firm. A graphic space, not gonnalie there. But those are the kind of the main players in that firm. Agraphic as we would call uh space. Fantastic. And the last one I like tojump into is email and that seems like kind of boring vanilla when it comes tomarketing automation. But how do you make it not that you know, how do youmake it go beyond the normal drip that everybody sets up? Which is alwaysmakes me want to cry. I'm like you have this robust marketing automation tooland the only thing you can do is set up a drip campaign for your lead for him.Like what do you usually do to go beyond that? And what are some earlytriggers and behaviors you can map to. And just your normal, let's just say aB two B saas company who's trying to drive the demos is doing content,marketing and doing a lot of these normal demand gen campaigns. Yeah, wellI definitely want to, I mean one thing to start out with your B two B saascompany naturally you have automation which is going to be sent by the salesreps and you're gonna have automation which is sent by marketing right? And Iwant to always advise people. Do not hesitate to send out sales emailsthrough your marketing automation tool? Yes, they're not gonna like you for it,but I don't really care for marketing automation tool doesn't like me. Umjust make sure you have your unsubscribe links in there and make ita plain text email. Right? So like if you need to use your automation tool toenable superpower automation, then do it. If you don't have access to all theengineers in the world to do send grid stuff, who cares? Just send it out toyour map, right, your marketing automation platform. But in either caseI think the biggest thing that you want to look for is right, you have tounderstand the triggers at which people are going to get value and this reallyhelps you with your ideal customer...

...profile, understand the triggers thatwhy somebody would be interested in your product or why somebody isinterested in your service and try to understand those signals because if youcan get those signals from third parties, like I talked about clear bitenrichment, talked about built with things like that. Um it's really,really helpful to send target emails based upon actions that are happeningin a company or actions that are happening for an individual. And I'lljust say if you're doing like outbound prospecting a key attribute like thatwe look for is new VP of marketing and company that's an immediate reach outfor us. If somebody's within three months of starting as a new VP or a newCMO that's an immediate insight for us to be able to reach out. We have anentirely automated system to tell us about that. And then of course we reachout to them and say, hey, you're brand new at the company, looks like you're,you're probably going to be looking to overhaul your marketing technologystack. So that's an easy thing that I would say if you're a SAAS company, sayyou're in marketing tech or say even an insurance, look for new CFOs at acompany. Hey, you congratulations on the new position notice, you juststarted. This can be all completely automated. You don't actually have toknow that they just started, you can buy that data and that's a really,really good way to start that conversation and tailor that. And thenthe secondary part to that is try to make it so that you're not wastingtheir time and add personalization to that email, try to make it as magicalas possible. Right? So, and then leverage the direct mail, like I hadtalked about before right? To add in that extra magic. Like hey, I sent youa piece of mail the other day. Did you get that? Every single person who getsan email that says you just got mail for me is gonna look and see if theygot mail from you and then they're gonna respond and say, no, it hasn'tarrived here. Yes, it has arrived. I'm talking about not everybody, but theseare simple multi channel things which are going to push your conversionshigher and get you going. And I think from an outbound perspective for SAsthat's really, really helpful. So where are you, where are you buyingsubscriptions like this to find out if a new CFO started at a certain segmentof companies that you would sell to you, where are you buying the subscriptionsand are you buying a subscription of information that then plugs into yourmarketing automation software? So it's just like each time that happens andthey find out about a new one, it just runs into your marketing automationpart flow. Yeah. I'm actually gonna try to pull up a service right now. GetRocket signal I think is one of the companies that get rocket signals dotcom I think is one of the signals I think that has that unfortunately I'mstruggling to pull it up at rocket signals. Is the company that gives us alot of that data as well for new hires. Um there's other services out therethat give this stuff too and I'm just trying to pull up some of the differentthings it used to be called Zen put or then reach. I think it was enrich and Ican't remember what they become with their new name was but they were alsoanother company that was able to really be able to get you that that real timedata we use job postings I know in our company as well as a secondary sourceof understanding that somebody's gonna be leaving their job and to look at anew company, rocket signals is the one that we get new hires from. We haveaccess to a lot of apps that give us a lot of information and deliver leads tous. Crunch base would be another really good place of signals. They always tellyou like somebody got funded, somebody changed the role. They added this newexecutive. That's a huge channel for...

...that stuff, adding technologies topeople's websites, which is another common thing we use, which is I alreadymentioned, built with clear bit keeps us updated in regards to like any otherfirm a graphic, that stuff changes on a monthly basis for us. We use radar andsome of our clients mobile apps that basically tell us when somebody's nearanything that's a geo fence location. Typically that's used for, hey,somebody's at this location, send them a push notification. So they know youhave a free whopper in our situation. We're like, hey, tell us thatsomebody's near our competitor and send us a notification. So that way we knowthat they're doing something. I remember you mentioned zen reach, whichisn't, isn't what you said it was. But I've used to enrich it's actually moreof a coffee shop bar marketing automation system. So if someone walksinto a coffee shop and you log into their wifi, they now know every timeyou walk into the coffee shop whether you logged into the wifi or not becauseof the Miami code on your what you can't wipe. But that's a fantasticmarketing automation tool. But it's for it's for restaurants. Yeah, zen whichis really good. And actually one thing that's really, really creepy and I wanteverybody to know this about their Alexa. Your Alexa is attached to yourhome wifi and it has a thing called, I think it's called sidewalk in it. Soevery single person who walks by your house as their phone passes your house,it connects to your Wifi and the I. M. E. I. Number is connected to your thingand they get access to your internet. And Jeff Bezos tracks every singlething. Um and there's like three features, I saw it on Tiktok, but turnoff sidewalk, turn off, save communication, history and then turnoff like can listen to everything in your Alexa because Alexa records everysingle thing you say and keeps it and then they email it to Jeff Bezos and heleads it reads it as his nighttime story. All of this is true except forthe Jeff Bezos part at the end, but sidewalk is terrifying. He tracked ifhe wanted to, he could, that's the thing, if you could, but zen reachessuper cool as you pass by the locations, it's good, oh man, the internet iscreepy. But I mean just to take a step further and just to help you understandof like where this gets super super creepy and we see this happening. So asan example we worked with the company Caros I can't marry this, its facialrecognition and facial sentiment. So basically facebook, your profile imagespublic, your first and last name of public. So people have basicallydownloaded all the facebook, all of Lincoln and all these things andprofiled all of the faces. So what happens is these have been put intomassive databases by amazon and other companies. So as Karros is basicallytracking every person who walks into a restaurant within a matter of a second,they automatically know within about a 95% accuracy who has just walked intothe restaurant with their first name, their last name and potentially anyother attributes they know they then also know the sentiment of that personand contract that So I don't know if you've ever been to target but ifyou're at target and you use the self checkout, you use your credit card, youwalk up to a screen that screen recognize you because there's a cameraand your credit card gets attached to it. Target then takes that credit cardinformation that facial recognition maps it back to facebook that knowexactly who you are credit card then gets mapped to experience. So they candownload every bit of information. Do you like cars? Do you like magazines,do you drive a suburban all of this...

...stuff? And then they buy it on the aswe like to call it the red market right? It's red hot. Nobody wants to know it'sthere and they use all that stuff so they can then predict whether you'regoing to be pregnant in the next six months so they can send you ads like itis just the amount of personalization which is out there. It's crazy. That'swhy text creepy to 9154159011. And if you're well known on the internetyou'll understand how creepy the enrichment services I have becauseyou'll get an email from me that has all the creepy information the internetknows about you. This is a new level of creepy man. I mean I just watched thatdocumentary on netflix. I can't remember what it's called but Iremember watching it being like yeah we marketers have been all over this for awhile. There's nothing new in this documentary. That's surprising me.Social dilemma. Their social dilemma. I'm sure everybody was waking up to thefact that how deeply marketers were thinking about your interactions andbehaviors and I'm like I'm only I'm not like a big player in this. I'm just asmall guy. I'm only spending $100,000 on Facebook ads. I'm only spending I'monly mean a small team putting together marketing automation campaigns andtrying to tap into the available A. P. I. S and facebook marketing and allthat kind of stuff and I know about this, I'm like I can't imagine whatsome people are doing it like at the top who are like Rhodes scholars andstuff targets the best man target is the best Look up target, predictspregnancy of teenager, look up that story and that was like years ago.Their data science team is legit. Oh cool man, this has been a fun episodeand I hope everybody hearing it has gotten some great nuggets and hastexted both those numbers for some fun and a free book dan to wrap things up.Where can people learn more from you and about you? Yeah, so go to my Goddot Io, so m C G A W dot Io check out our website so you can learn a lot ofstuff on there and follow me on linkedin, it's just Daniel ***, I'mmost active on linkedin. I don't do the whole twitter thing but check me out onlinkedin, I'm happy to have a conversation. Fantastic! Thanks againso much for joining us on the show today. Thanks for having me anothergreat conversation Here on B two B growth as always, you can connect withme over on linkedin. Just search Benji block, subscribe to be to be growth onyour favorite subscription service to stay connected and we will talk to youin 20 22 for the longest time. I was askingpeople to leave a review of GDP growth in apple podcasts, but I realized thatwas kind of stupid because leaving a review is way harder than just leavinga simple rating. So I'm changing my tune a bit instead of asking you toleave a review, I'm just gonna ask you to go to BBB growth in apple podcasts,scroll down until you see the ratings and reviews section and just tap thenumber of stars you want to give us no review necessary. Super easy. And Ipromise it will help us out a ton. If you want a copy of my book, contentbased networking, just shoot me a text after you leave the rating and I'llsend one your way, text me at 4074 and...

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