629: Where Marketing Attribution Meets Call Performance w/ David Danielson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to David Danielson, Head of Marketing at Convirza.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielsondavid/

... a podcast, interview your ideal clients, let them talk about what they care about most, and never run out of content ideas again. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the BETB growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping betb executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the BEATB growth show. We are here today with David Danielson. He is the head of marketing at CONVERSA. David, how you doing today? I'm doing fantastic. I am really excited to chat with you today, David. We're going to be talking about where marketing attribution meets call performance, but before we dive into that, I'd love to just give a little bit of context to...

...our listeners so they understand why you're the guy to be talking about this. Can you give us just a little bit of context around what you're in your teamer up to a conversa? Yes, so, just at a really high level convers has one of those unique SASS applications that's backed by literally fortyzero hours of data science time analyzing the quality of phone calls. And what we do is we not only analyze them and show you your results, but we actually tie that to automation to allow you to get the most value out of your incoming leads that you can get. I love it. So, as we dive right into this topic, David, as we're talking about offline, the first thing that I want to talk about is attributing leads to sources. How are you guys thinking about that over there, conversive? So a couple of things that you know, we see that companies are really struggling with is that they're throwing money at marketing and one of the things that they do is they think that some of their programs are working, but they don't see all of their attribution. And what we're finding is that up to about thirty percent of...

...your attribution might be wrongly attributed or inaccurately attributed. So you might have a program that you're running where maybe you go out and you run an email campaign, but if you're not tracking the calls that are coming off that email campaign. You might be missing out on a ton of super high quality leads and you should actually be doing more of that, because you're driving even better leads coming that direction. Okay. And so what would you say is a tangible and of next step for someone that knows that they need to do better in this area? Like, if there was kind of a tangible takeaway, here's, here's something you can do today to start down the path of correcting this issue. What would you say that is? So I would say probably the first step is to actually broaden your understanding of what you want to do from an attribution standpoint. If you're really just focussing in on I did this email...

...campaign that generated this many clicks, then you're definitely missing some of those core elements and you've got this blind spot around some of these other areas where you should have more attribution. Okay. So if they're saying, okay, we sent out this email, we got this number of clicks, if that's the wrong thing to be looking for to you give us some examples of what should they be looking for when they do that type of activity. So some of the things that people should be looking for is they should be looking at all of the different avenues for the customer journey. Okay, so you know, and you know we kind of talked about this before Carl a little bit. Where the idea is that, just because the spearhead of your activity is the program that you're running, whether it's email or a facebook ad or a Google ad words ad, when you start spending money and your and you're driving traffic to your site in those different areas, the thing that we want to make sure that we're highlighting is that there's a lot more value behind that click then...

...just the form fill. And people may or may not know this, but when you click on a form, those forms are they have a very short lifespan. The customer could be at varying stages of interest in the buying cycle, and so what you're really trying to do is you're trying to hone in and figuring out which of those lead sources leads people to different levels in your buying process. So you want to start looking at how to connect those calls because they represent a very different stage in the buying process. So being able to connect the calls back to your activities starts to add visibility that maybe your organization isn't really looking out for and you really want to bring tie that stuff in. So another thing you mentioned, and I think this has a lot to do with what you just were talking about, but to make sure that we really covered it, you were talking offline about broadening the bottom of the funnel. Can you expand on that a little bit more? Yeah, definitely.

A lot of marketers they treat marketing very horizontal and they think about the customer journey, from the customer moves from this stage to this stage to this stage. And what we sometimes forget as marketers and as businessess owners, as we forget about the fact that some types of marketing activities drive much more engagement than others. And I'll tell you, if I could choose between a web form fill and a phone call, I would take a phone call every single time, because the phone call represents that customer at the very bottom. His interest is high, his action level is high and now he's contacting you to figure out what he needs to do and the last thing you want to do is you want to let that guy go because you didn't have the ability to analyze what was working in terms of marketing or in terms of sales performance to get that called to convert and then you know it. Speaking of you mentioned getting that call to convert. The last piece of you know. Really,...

...what I want to hammer hammer home with you is looking at conversion for the leads that that you're bringing in. Can you speak to how you and your team look at conversion? Absolutely so. A lot of people have this misconception of the value of a call, meaning they treat all the calls horizontally, exactly the same, and what we find is that people need the ability to either filter out all the robot calls that are junk calls, they need to have the ability to actually look at the call and say, does this caller have buying intent? Does he have buying interest? And that's when we start to determine, hey, guess what, this is elite. It's not a previous customer. He has buying intent and he has and he's starting to show those signs as signals that show that he's a much more likely person to buy. And if you could identify and Matt back which of those calls have more buying intent than others, then you can start to recognize which of your programs...

...are the ones that are going to drive most conversions to your business, because at the end of the day I really don't care about leads, I care about revenue. And some people get hung up on this idea of well, I drove a hundred fifty calls, but if a hundred fifty calls didn't convert or a hundred fifty form fills didn't convert to a customer, then you're just wasting money. At the end of the day, all I want to know is, if I run this program, how do I turn those people into customers? And having the ability to see that conversion through analytics in your calls and identifying these types of activities drive calls that convert. That turns into a very different paradigm for a business. So you might find that you're bidding on a hundred different keywords, but what if there are only ten that drove calls that converted to customers? Would that be would that change the way you want to leverage your investment? Because I wouldn't want to run out of money on...

...those on those beds right. That's where I want to optimize. Are there any other examples there? So I love that example of your putting dollars behind you know a hundred different keywords, but only ten of those keywords are actually driving results. Are there any other stories or examples similar to that, either from your customers or things that you found in your own marketing? That, man, we would have never known that these activities are actually driving our results, and so because we were able to see that, we then diverted more resources to the things are actually working. You know, it's funny because the world of Conversa we kind of consider ourselves kind of that blend between the offline and online world, and nobody's come in that was being extremely successful in one vehicle and they don't cut off all of their marketing and then transition to a hundred percent to one to action. Right. Most people have a blend. They have at this hybridized strategy of what they're trying to do, and I...

...find that that changes wildly between industries. So I was talking to some customers this weekend and what they're telling me is they're saying, I've got this percentage of my spend in offline and I've got this percentage of my spend it online, and that is the secret sauce for us in our industry. I talked to somebody in the same is the same as a group function we went to together and the other person says, I'm only spending one third of that on digital, but yet I'm getting these great kinds of results with these other marketing mixes and and being able to understand your mix of what's working for you is part of the secret sauce of really driving that revenue train right. And if you think about it in terms of a revenue engine, you want to have the idea that I put this much money in, I get that much money out, and getting those things dialed in. Yeah, it's you know, I have customers that were running flyers, for example, and direct mail and...

...everybody says direct mails dead, and I've got two customers I talked to in the last two months that said my direct mail is now one of my highest converting pieces because it's that pendulum right. For some people it's diluting and for some people swinging back it's going the other direction. Personalized direct mail for younger millennials, they never got mail before, so now they're starting to see, all, my Gosh, what is this thing? I didn't see this coming, and so they're actually engaging in a different way and so what's happening is you're going to see this leveling of different channels in different areas and some are going to work on some aren't. And what was really surprising about this guy when we were talking about the direct mail is he says I'm actually spending more money on direct mail right now because that started converting and driving more business than we've ever had in direct mail. And though you see it as a sliding...

...and declining market, most people are like, oh, we got to go digital. He said, I'm going digital. I didn't stop going digital, but this is working right now for me and without visibility into that you're missing out on a big piece of the equation. I have another customer. He was spending six grand a year on direct mail and he pulled all that money and went to digital. So without the ability to get visibility into those things, it's really challenging to make those really hard decisions and it's real money. I mean we help our customers realocate resources from poor performing campaigns to high performing campaigns every single day and I think that's really what we want to be focused on. that. This has been fantastic. If there's somebody listening to this, they want to stay connected with you or they want to learn more about convert. What's the best way for them to go about doing that? Simply, you can email me directly, D Danielson at Conversacom, or come and...

...visit us on our website. We've got a lot of changes in the air right now. We've got some fantastic new releases coming up and then it's next quarter and we'd be very excited to talk to you a little bit about what we could do to help you. David. Thank you so much for your time today. Man, this has been fantastics. I really appreciate it. No problem things, James. There are lots of ways to build a community and we've chosen to build the BEDB growth community through this podcast. But because of the way podcasts work, it's really hard to engage with our listeners and without engagement it's tough to build a great community. So here's what we've decided to do. We're organizing small dinners across the country with our listeners and guests. No sales pitches, no agenda, just great conversations with likeminded people. Will Talk Business, we'll talk family, will talk goals and dreams, will...

...build friendships. So if you'd like to be a part of a BB growth dinner in a sitting near you, go to be tob growth dinnerscom. That's be tob growth dinnerscom. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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