609: How to Mobilize Your Advocates w/ Mark Organ

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Mark Organ, CEO at Influitive.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markorgan/

There's a ton of noise out there. Sohow do you get decision makers to pay attention to your brand start a podcastand invite your ideal clients to be guess on your show, learn more atsweetfish media dotcom, youere, listening to the PTEB growthshow a potcast dedicated to helping bee to be executives, achief explosivegrowth, whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources. You've come to the right place, I'm James Carburry and I'mJonathan Green. Let's get into the show, welcome back to the Bauby growth showwe are here today with Mark Oregon. He is the CEO at influative Mare you doingtoday, Iin Gray, James. I'm really excited to chat with you today Mar westarted talking about a month ago, maybe a few weeks ago, right beforeyour your annual conference and Stoke that we that we got you on mark you,you recently wrote a book called the Messenger. Is the message? Is thatright? That's right! Awesome! I want to talk about some of the key themes fromthat book, but before we get into that, I'd love for you to tell our listenersjust live about influative an o. What what you guys are doing up there sureyeah! Thank you so a little bit about influidof it influtive and and the bookthe MESSERS. The message Ha have a lot in communism. I think at influted we help companies discoverNurshar andmobilize, their customer advocates and other avicants oncludingdevelopers and partners. EMDPLOYES and discgovernors should mobilize them todo way more than really wha. What most people companies would think isreasonable for customer advocates to do and UH. That is well also a lot of whatthe book is about as well, which is you know how to get a lot more value fromyour advocates by giving them a better experience, which is...

...really where the wors and story ofFluti comes from, where I used to be Baunn Alliqoi, and one of this benoticed, was that these best in class sales processes, where you know you'd win these deals ina few days as opposed a few months. Those had tons of advocacy all overthose processes. You know it s, referrals on way in and AK GREAT CASstudies and references N, the way out and, and so, and it was hard togenerate that Ayeah and so where, where food I came from was trying to solvethat problem. How does systematically generate a lot more of these referrals,ind videos and Bistar on Min views, and all these things that you know we asbto B folks, really are dependent on yer R ss, that's really where, whereinclutive has come from and we're still dedi very much dedicated to that ideaof haw o health company SYSTEMATICA HL generates his high quality activity,and our big insight was that by providing a better experiencefradvicates, you will actually get a lot more of that high quality atic seethat that we all want. I love it, and so s o more lets. Let's just dive rightin there like so so of creating this advocacy experience is, is what weshould be trying to do. I guess my question is: Where do we start? How dowe go about trying trying to create an advocate, the experience that actuallycreates e raving fans that kind of do our marketing for us? Well, I think Norna answer that itwould be useful to take a step back and I'll talk a little bit about thefoundational research that I did actually even back when I was atElliwua in in you know, from two thousand and seven and two thousand andten Efore, I started influtive and what I learned about what makes advocatestick because it's actually different from these people in our roles as ascustomes. So I interview literally hundreds of these folks, these people,we call those superadvocates thet, do...

...over two hundred. You know pieces ofAvecy here to understand a simple question, which is what would it take F, Yeu to triple theamount of activity O to and the reason why I asked it that way was was reallyas an accident. But while I was at Aa, we had this award ceremony called theMarkis. They still do it um the markes awards and well. They found again. My accident wasthat when you give people awards and you invite people to a gall at dinnerand entertain folks and make them feel really good, then they respawn by doinga ton of advecacy. That was a olv moment that went off for me thatthere's something special about the experience that we created that dropeople a advocate, even though we didn't even ask for I. That was theamazing thing we even asked for it. He did it. Esan aligbell went off for methat there's something special that we did at this a ward ceremony in turns. Ithink what it is that we did there. It was something we called social capitaly and social capital. As the you know, this increase in repucation. You knowthat that these people have got by just being athetiv. So a social cap was oneof those things. Ta Drive Advocacy another another thing o Dr Adviccy,which he could feel at this event, is something that we call exclusive triumh,so human beings love to belong to something that's bigger than themselves,and ideally it's exclusive and at's. Why people paint their faces that youknow it sporting events so th they tatoo, like Harley Davidson on her armsstuff like that like. Why do they do that? RIGHTBUT WL? They do that becausethey want to feel like they belong to something, and especially now, when youhave like the decline of organized religion and a bunch of other thingslike it's, never been more important for people to feel like people lrong, and so when people were at US awordceremony, they felt like they were in the club, an cur in something that'squite exclusive. So that's the second thing and the third thing that we findit really dry, as advocacy as being able to measure one's impact O at this.The word ceremony had all these stories...

...of people saying talking about theimpact that these people had upon their companies onaquio whatnot. So those arethe things that we see time and time again in terms of what dries advocacy at. Wesat at at a high level at a sprategic level, yeah nd. So how? How, then markdoes that translate kind of outside of that that specific usecase of you knowputting on an event like that? So how does that translate into everydayactivity that we can be doing as marketers to create a better advocacyexperience? I think it really starts with a community. I an that's, that'sWhar. We learn from again those marquis awards that that became a meanycommunity. That was a special rarefied club of folks, and people felt you knowvery. You know attached to one another nd, and I think that is the start ofgreat advocate experience is a powerful community where people feel likethey're part of exclusive tribe, so y. If you look at the advocate hubs thatwe power they, they all have their own specialpersonality. They often have wi these inside jokes that eivher. We don'treally understand ad influtive one of our customers. They call therh thepanda assimilation society or something like that. I really have no idea Oletme tell you those iciders, they completely get it. They feel like theyare indebted to the Organization for creating this group of pandasimilatorsor whatever. It is, and there there's that feeling ofinsiderness right, the with respect to you know impact we, you know stronglyadvocate for, and we have technology to help companies measure the impact thattheir advocates are making. So, for example, if someone's giving you areferral, you should let them know how the refur was doing. How is itprogressing through the pipeline in sales force? If, if they've generated afive star review, you know how many...

People Tho give it a thumbs up, haveanybody's as a anybody sited it as a reason for why they purchased if Houget po that feedback they're much more likely to keep doing it and an socialcapital. You know, as people have a better experience in life, an career asa results of their appicated, more likely to advocate a lot more so CRI, acommunity that drives those things is a big way to Dran more avocacy, which Ithink is necessary, but it's not sufficient. We also learned a lot fromthe habit forming games that me and a Buch of other people here are kind ofaddicted to and the way I look at it is like games like video games, Heven, hi,tviia's, really, all games have won the Darwinian war for attention. That is like attention like SachinadelaRote, a memo to his staff and said human attention is the most scarcecommodity yep. It's it's more scarce than PLUTONIO OKAYYEP and games have onTha. I bet you that a number of people listing this Poe cast right now i's spending, probably too many hoursplaying some game and and no ones had to force them to dothat. No one had to then Theyav Hav to do any training they because they loveit because they enjoy it. And it's because these games have specifichaveit forming drugs in there that get people to want to m play again andagain, and so we've put a lot of those sort of attributes o these advancegapication techniques into our communities and h, that's somethingthat we do advocate for and even if you create an Atdic, a program that doesn'tuse our sockwere and we've lost e lots of Copanies O. do that right? Who whohave something running on slack R or Facebook Fan, page or or even just adinner that they get once a quarter and tmey get their customers together? Youknow we advocate bilding and these...

...these sorts of ideas, so the social capital, the xclucive Tri,the impact, but even the gamification. I have dinners all the time. In fact,I'm going heading off to Atlanta tomorrow, where I'm having a customerdinner, but we're going to have a contest at this dinner, we're going tohave prizes. There's there there are people who are going to win big, an aneople who are like not persononye, God have a good Dinneryou,know: Thy'e they're not going to win that win. That prize W, that's one ofthose things that we've learned just make things more finely interesting is,is when you, when you gain a Fi, so y, you put all those together. You end up with a much betterexperience, more fun, more rewarding and also more efficient. It's one of thethise that we learn fromadvocates that they really want is that they actually like advocating. Theyjust wanted to be fast and easy and frictions. You know you think aboutright now, E. I bet you right Ou, you can think of a couple of companies thatyou just love, O prodestant, you just love and you're, not advocated for it.Why 'cause T to is FRUSTA? It takes work to figure out wt whom I' going torefer this to, and I got to write to email, never mind. Now, look! There's Squirrel,you know! So if you make it easy and efficient people theyll do a lot moreof that Activ Yeh. What has been mark as you've been talking about the booksince, since it launched what's been h, the feedback from people that have readthe book. What's hat's a piece of feed back that you weren't expecting to youknow an insight that people are saying man. I really got a lot of value out ofthis part of the book that maybe you weren't expecting to hear, but but yeahanw, so I mean I gotta g Ha to be back O. I gotsifee back people sayg. Iwasn't expecting to like the book this much. That is actually Pretty Sa thatyou pretty pretty entertaining. There's lots of examples that I that I didn'texpect. I think I think a lot of people expected that I would just talk aboutour customers and what they're doing...

...and enters some great examples for surefrom our customers, which, which tend to be B to B TA companies. That'sninety percent of Hor customer base today, Apto B, check op. These allpeople listening to this show are the kind of people that we work with. Ireally work tired to get a lot of examples that are beyond our customer base, a lot ofexamples: Rin the B T C world. I think there's a lot to learn from be to seeyou know as a be to be company, and so I got examples from, for example, Lego,which transformed themselves from a near banker, producer, plastic bricksin two thousand and three so today, being the most prophecay copany in theworld and they've done that through ther, several advocate communities thattheyve prated, while for for teachers and and for kids and parents, you knowa lot of the best ideas for de Lego. proceet services don't come from theirown product, folks that come from their customers, tery powerful example.People resineed with that talked about the story of Goldcorp, which was alsonear bankrupt, gold miner that couldn't find its own gold on its property andthey open source all of their data and they let their advocates. In and armchair geologists found the gold, andtoday it is the Wolst Profitable Company in the World Yoo. You you'llhear this trend of profit and advocate Mol, absolutely go together and in abook I explain why why it's so crucial if you want profit,why it's pretty important to have this unpaid army of people doing aurmarketing for you, those are absolutely correlated. But you know those are acouple of examples: kind of mine, Talkot, air, B and D and how you know RBB leverages its hostadvogates, do a lot of its policy work and do lotiivation work as peoplepeople found those quite entertaining inappropriate thinking. What are whatare some of the be to be examples, mark...

...that you maybe shared in the book or ormaybe maybe it's not in the book, but nd o the a a case of of outside the box,thinking or or creative advocacy program in a in a B TB context. Sureyes, EER RELL! I could talk about, and I guess one of the the Thenes of thebook is that advocates can do just about have anything right so that fromthe top of the funnel to the bottom, and then you know so from fromgenerating awareness all the way to closing deals, but even beyond that interms of mitigating churm driving inovation, I there's and even getting aoperations and strategy. So we talk about a lot of examples. There y a alot of examples, do focus in a market department. You know one that comes tomind Seridian, which you now you'll hearthis story again again, you know close to bankruptcy or and also ran, and thepayroll a serviceof space. They acquired a tiny soctwreck upte here inToronto, called Daforce and Ey had about hundred employees at the time.This is a seven billion dollar company that acquired them. Within six months, the CEO dforcebecame the CDO. Cyridiawhich was a crazy story that I wish was repeatedmore and depressed, because that just never happens. I can imagine you knowMicrosoft or something acquiring some small start up an then six months later,like that start up cos now running all t of Microsoft. Ah Interesting Strategy, but yeah, the CEOis, is a brilliant guy and he what he told the board is we need to changethis company Weea to build it all around advocates is that's that's whatI think the mission of Suridian should be. Is the delaying customers every dayand to mobilize them to do the sales, an marketing force and Orlove the ideaand said your hire? You're you're you're running a whole company. NowGood Luck, man to his credit, I mean David Oustiphas done just a magnificent job. I mean...

...not just with the customer advocates,but he's made all his employees advocates as well. He's he's shut up tothe top of the glass door list in terms of the most h you know best best uh company to workfor keep minus the company Fou Nineteen. Fifty seven Ioo, an old company, hasbeen totally transformed by betding on an Avogacy, a just see how crazy it islike they they and their trade shows will staff the boot with cussoerabicatsand most of the people have actually not employees AAn ter cripto this theythey literally will run a challenge and said hey for for a thousand points, doyou want to be in the booth and sign up for a boothtime? And if you do you getto meet so great people and- and you get to hang out with us at the afteparty- that's the that's. The pert right go is t at you get to hang outwith with US cool people, and I mean imagine the experience too for aprospect. Instead of talking to a sales guy and off you, don't always talk tothe best sales guys bit. You'R YLITIWELTB hore talking to people whjust started whoare, trying to learn their script right, an and now you'remeeting with a VPFHR from one of your pure companies, Yep and they're,showing you thedamo. I mean it's just awesome experience incredible. I wouldhave never thought about doing that. That's that's an amazing example. YeahA it just goes to show how we're thinking they are. Why they're Dong sowell HP is another example of a a pretty bigcompany that is transforming themselves with with advocates they've. Had youknow entire Ebooks, so these are like forty page pet fs that are createdentirely by advocates. Wthey have something they call their conbaorbelt,so they will put out a challenge to say: Hey what shall we write about 'cause?You know you guys are you guys are not the same as us here marketing right, sowe want to know what's important to you and so they'll come back. AVOS willwell come up with ideas, wart to write about and then o put another ChanengeSayg Hay. We had seven good ideas. Thet...

...had multiple voats, which one would youput as your number one and so that there there's a whitling down towhatever is the best topic, then to say: okay, now we have our topic. Who wantsto participate in writing a page and TSE? People will will do that and and ythey like to do that B'cause they get their name and lights and whatnot, andthen so and an so forth all the way to distributing the e book and so yeah a e.These eboks that have had almost no HP involvement other than coordinating theprocess Whi in the cost of Crenat content is a small fraction of what itwould normally cost, but, more importantly, the qualities will higher.So when you look at how well that particular document has done itconverts at a much higher percentage than their ordinary, you know HousePretty Apple 'cause from from star to start to veniit in the voice of thecustomer Wlis, because it's on the right topic, it's in the right voice.It's got the right, storis and numbers in it and is being distributed by peersYeh. So course it performs better YEP IMEAN that I, the message of you, knowcompanies the message of sort of lean stard up ind product management is hey,get out of the building and start talking to your customers andunderstand their needs better nd and have them do more f the work and, andwhat advocate programs do is allow you to do that. scalably ALOVI. I love itmark. This has been fantastic. I love that you shared those examples. I hadnever I'd, never thought about Avets Tasee in that way. If there's somebodylistening to this obviously y w the want to check out your bug, his am is,on the best place, to find the Messenger as the message it is yeah we're working on getting itto other channels, but I mean Amazon really. Is the eight million poundgrilla these d? It is, it is so so they can fund a book there. What are someother ways that they can stay connected with you and with influitive yeah?That's great M, so I'm pretty active on...

...social media. So I'm I'm at Mark Orgaon.All One word: O'm twinner! Please connect to me on Lintoln or facebook. We write tons andtimes of content and, of course, Eur advocates write a lot of that contentas well. That's on the resources. Page o include of Dacam tons of free content,increasingly ungaited content that W we really want to give to the world, andso we we would invite anybody to comes to e resource page and read lots ofstoff that that have been created on everything from hedogenemore referralsto references case studies, videos how to provide a great addictet experience.You know how to do better EBM, which is a big topic for Esthese days. Yet howadve C an ABM goes together we called AAM or a account management marketing,so um all that is there for you and H yeah. We just look. We just want morepeople to join the clot tuts of AVICATATW, whether or not they'recustomers. So we let on invite everybody to do more Adka marketing andwe want to be a partner to help there. I love it Mar kink Ou. So much for yourtime today. This has been incredible. I I really appreciate it great to ensure that you never miss anepisode of the B to be gross show subscribed to the show in itunes. Wereyour favorite pod CASS player, this garing teas that every episode will getdelivered directly to your device if you'd like to connect with be to beexecutives from all over the world make sure to join our private facebookcommunity. There are some incredible conversations happening inside thisgroup to join visit, be Ta B. Growth Show tcom, slash FB. Thank you so muchfor listening until next time.

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