602: Why You Need to Tell More Stories on LinkedIn w/ John Chen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to John Chen, Co-Founder & Head of Digital at LinkedInPedia.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jzchen/

Are you struggling to come up withoriginal content, weaken and weak out start a poncast interview, your idealclients? Let them talk about what they care about most and never run out ofcontent ideas again: Learn more at sweetfish media, dotcom, youere, listening to the BEATOBGrotshir, a potcast dedicated to help be to be executive, achieve explosivegrowth, whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources. You've come to the right place, I'm James Carberry and I'mJonathan Green. Let's get into the show! Welcome back to the beautyby growthshow we were here today with John Chin. He is the cofounder and head of digitalat Lincoln, Pedia John. How e You doing it? Aman, I'm doing great man thanks FYhaving me onutral, excited to chat with you today we're going to be talkingabout Linkin and is something you have some deep expertisin SOM excited todive in Tellfa Li bit about Linompedia and what unior team were uped Tou overthere, while Tma Lincoln Pedia Wis, really sombol on e mission to helppeople kind of brand themselves professionally in a personal way, willbelieve that you know the rules of the game has totally changed. It's nolonger a game where you know people dump their resumes on Lingtoln and tryto make a name for themselves through some sort of like miracle, some sort oflike a suchengenealcoritm. So we believe that Ou know by sharing a storyand- and you know being authentic- I think that's the key word beingauthentic and and social selling yourself through. You know the rightkind of content, yeah, that's the way for it on Lingthon, so werl on amission to change that m yea Ta Lov ND, you've been on my radar. The last fewmonths I've been seeing your contract opic ith my feet, all the time, ASEWewere, Talkingov Ling at you know this idea of therethey're the Lindon Tay Sayers thatare. Oh, you know these people are y...

...they're, just telling stories andthey're spacing their updates. You know to where it's one sentenced, paragraphand all they're doing is hacking Linkin to show upen my news feed, but then yyou've got the other side of the coin. That saying tha we're justwe'renaturally. People are drawn to stories so we're just doing what peoplewant in a platform where it's focused on business and were capitalizing onthat to to grow our own businesses. Where do you stand on that? Obviouslyyou're you're writing content on on. I think it's a daily basis, forwhat. Ican tell on linen. How are you thinking about story telling on Linkon? Whatwhat are you thoughts? I think you know is a great point. They pointit out,especially with the one paragraph SANTENC says on Lingtoln. I think justbecause you know you're posting one sendem spargrap on on lengt en SD. Allof a sudden you get this Il call lots of hits in terms of impressions likecommon shares. Well, it's easy to to kind of just be pointed to the factthat Ol, maybe the algorithm is, is kind of biased to as people who writein one sentence paragraphs. Maybe it's t to kind of make people think that Ohhe's just trying to get my attention and you know just try and get more hit,but I think, on the other hand, you know, on the other side of the story,you have people who are geneally trying to share that story, but at the sametime you know, let's not forget that the audience on Linken ProfessionalPeople Theye are people who don't really have that much time now therebeing sed, I think 'm, probably the best person to speak about this,because I've had so many people coming to me with mixed opinions. That's theone side of them who appreciates good writing, theres! Well, spaced! Well,paragraphed! You K, it could be three three lines: Ere Chunk Chunk. I meanyou entere three lines of Tex and then pressed endered twice and then into anew paragraph, Yeh Yeh and then there's...

...the other side. Woud. Think, Oh John,is just you know, writing different paragraps short sentences because hewants us to carry on reading and in the end, give him engagement whatsoever.But hereis te thing, engagement and impression are totally two differentthings right. I could get you to click on th H, my post, because you know Iprobably break it up in one Lineus, so you have to click on in O, read more toKenof, see what apposted about, but at thethe. If that particular poles getgets like a ton of blikes comments and Shar, it's normally not even I don't,in my personal opinion, is not even related to the fact that it's you knowspace well if a content works on lengten as because there's a powerfulstory behind it, and not necessarily because it's well spaced well facing ispart of the story and in fact that bit like a simple text post on this topic, I I spokeabout. You know how, at the end of day, the spacing is veryclosely related to the story that R Trad top- I mean all kinds of outlets.Do it what you said: We've been using spacing from all kinds of mediums or omedia. Even newspapers. Do it you. Now I don't expect to flip over open andnewspaper, and I see all the texurs jumble up together an ye, an entiretrunk. I can't read yeah, you know, so I think that's like a misconceptionthere between my good story telling and people just who ar just supposedlytrying to grow heck yeah, because at the end of the day, Tha people that arejust trying to growack the platform and I've been seeing it too, when yourcontent's not good your content's, not good, and if your contents not adding valueto people, you can space your content. You know as much as you want nd you canhave. You know the most clickbaby opening sentence, but if, if the valuethat you're trying to deliver and that piece of content is not good, it's notultimately going to get engagement. But...

...when you understand kind of the art ofyou know great copyrihding, you understand that the first one or twosentences have to hook in the reader, because if, if what you have to say isgood and it actually adds value, you want people to consume that you've gotto get them there and having a having a hook in your opening line. Spacing outyour PARAGRAPP, because we know that most people are reading it on mobileand they have to be able to consume it easily if they see a giant black atteo'r just going to tune out, and it's funny I you know, I've had some hatersjump into posts of mine and say: Oh, like I hate this one sentence,paragraph stuff, I'm a true writer and Deinde up and I go back to theirprofile and it's Hilarious, because I look at the content that they'reputting out and, of course you know it's three four sentenced paragraphsand it gets no engagement and some of it 'cause honestly the content's, notthat good and then other parts so at are maybe the content is good butthey're, not following those basic tenents of good copyriding and becauseof that nobody's going to receive the content that they're trying to put outthere because they're romantic about it and feeling like well. We have tofollow the rules of the game so to speak, and it's like. I don't knowwhere that rule book is, but I'm not following it I'm doing stuff. That'sactually getting results. How do you think about John the stories thatyou're telling 'cause you? You tell some really compelling stories and theyalways tie back to some kind of fundamental business lesson, you're,delivering real value and the content that you're putting out? What's yourprocess for kind of marrying stories with and of value, I think you know theboy answered that it's a great point personally, as a copyrighter insideMyand to my braind, I'm brobly screaming Oh yeah, because you know we can't just pointthe finger at people who supposedly cannot say you mention that people whocome to you and sa they. Oh, I hate vs, one LINEOTEX or paragraps on Lainen,and then we go back to the popals and...

...we see that hey. You know these guysare not not doing copyrighting the way it should be. I like to just link it tothe basic tenant of Copyrigting oeven basic marketing, which is et UANORATER,Yeupran SS runr, always exactly attention, interest desire and action.Well, if it jumble everything up, I alwaysco compare it to being likewatching a movie imagining he sat don in a movie and he tells you the endingat the very beginning, you'll be wondering L Ke, okay. So what am Ipaying for Yep? Yep Y? U Ow, there's no! THERE'S NO PLOT! THERE'S NO PACING!There's no suspenss there' snow! You know tents tensity in th the Action Tha,the viewer doesn't feew anything at all, so to kind of like put that Metar torest or at the very least, can norput. This in my opinion across, is that mypersonal takeis that you know spacing an and the whole one line othing mypersonal approach to it was always- and in fact I applied this to all mywriting rig unless my clients, I I do some content writing on the side.Unless my client specifically says that Hey, we want all the text jumbleatwhich iill you know strongly rebel against. EAINDIAN usually fails unlessthey specifically askd for that. I always make it Appointt to make it easyfor the reader because think about it. You're in a wirl of full of intormation,that's so noisy out there and you have that fortunate chance for your reader,who has the attentions pen of the Goldfish Lessan a Goldfish ICALLING, anew Patali, that's less than three seconds! You have that chance to makehim like read through your pose and engage writh him with with the Post. Soin that short amount of time, if you're, not even Gonno, make the point to makeit easy on the eyes than what chants a engagement o you have. So that's mypersonal take oet, now kind of Ano,...

...interesting question wel. I love theshowman ISTHERE's a lot of interesting questions. So your question was: How doI link these stories? What's the thought process that goes on behind it?I yeah yeah MMI think that the CO is always about. You know broadening the te Mintet, because my personal journey as an entrepreneur was that I startedeight years ago. I was doing freelines writing on the site. I started a fewcompanies along the way: studed an Evente Company, copyrighting company,so you know naturally along those lines. T kind of like compel, like hugestories of failure M, which I learnd later on, was like stories of successsonaturally i Wu always like you know. Whenever I faced a similar situationnow, I will always think back because chances. I learned it when I was twenty,I'm twenty six now, so that was six years plus the two additional yearswhere I started freelince Briting. So to me it was always about. Oh, Hey,there's something you know next to me it could be a notbook where I had you know brought on it. Three years ago I was like old CH, Olporchmant. I look at it. Oh Hey, it does remind me of something. So how canI link this to whatever I'm doing now and how can I take it? Fo Tha to makeit Alessen, because I believe that you know every object around us is likesomething for us to use, but also something for us to learn from like,for example, you know a Bicyce goring to many people. Some people might seeit like just a bicycle. But to me I you know the more. I write the bicycle.It's a little weird, but it kind of feels to me that the bicycle knows meas much as I know the bicycle, and you know I cant see the wet Er as like theexperience where other wet as others, people other people might see it. Asyou know, just went t epreciation and...

...it's time to change the bicycle. to Oand hard thaught process is always about hey, there's, something that youknow. I I learnd there something that you know I had the chance to learn whenI was on the CAP. They call taxi in Singapore, but you know I'm on a cat,I'm having food, Oh hey, there's wyled, thoes kind of s. You know Y Yeahlok, agont put ut. I think there is some valuable takeaway there that everythingaround you when you start seeing everything aroundyou as potential, for you know a story. I think it opens up the world and whenyou start looking back at you know, past experiences, that's something thatI've started doing recently is just thinking about thinking about mychildhood and different elements of my childhood and how that shaped me today.Thinking about you know my my early professional career and like the thecorporate, you know the corporate world that I was in for a hot second. Whatwas it about that lifestyle that that I have wanted to retreat from? You know,processing through that writing about that connecting with people in in waysthat I didn't even think were possible, but me talking about my dad, leavingwhen I was two years old. I'd never had any idea that a story like that wouldtouch people on the next level right, like I'm, I'm still going messages fromthat post because I tied the fact that you know my dad wast nd when I was twoand because of that I had a very supportive environment around me and mymom and my grandma, my sister, and as a result of that support, I now have my default setting, is to surroundmyself with incredibly supportive people, because my upbringing I was in,I was very well supported. You know the lack of my dad almost like forced youknow my mom and my grandma to to support even more knowing that I didn'thave a mal figure around a and so t just talking about that connection. Butto your point earlier, you can't like.

I think there is something powerful innot just sharing stories for story's sake, but always making sure thatthere's that connection, do you find with your clients, John, that thatmaking the connection is the tough part for them, or is it more trying to findthe story that can then tie to a business principle? That's the harderpart. I aways tring this to be a particl problem, the smaller thecompaience. I Sav this from the client's prospective meaning alove ofclines you kN W the coming to me like, Oh hey. Yesterday, just yesterday,there was a client who came to me, Po, Hey John, and need you to help me sellbook. So I say what do you want to really sell about so I wan to sell youknow I've been through my some struggles, both my parents, ruaemurdered by my brother, O wow, you w thi. These are real stories. You knowshe actually left Indi at the age of I think fifteen. When she was a teenager, took,took a loan from the bank came to a state today, she's the head of growthfor a very large team and according to her, she is in a very happy marriage.She has a husband of loving husband, two kids and she's, like how can I youknow, reach out to people, so what we did was like kind of Conteentoiti. Isaid: Hey Look, stop trying to pitch me. You don't need to Piach me to I got ina female Colegue of mine and we kind of Selt up like a really fund self call.So the idea was, you know that cline o Mi should bet a questionnairebeforehand. That asked he like the typical markling scenarios like whatwhat's Your n customers nightmare, a miracle so instantly while she wasthinking of that she did the questionnaire and she immediately gotthe chance to pitch to my female col at this point had no idea what she wasdoing now. Take note that e wasn't really trying to sell the products orservices we wasn't going into something...

...technical. We were going towards t eemotional, because one thing that a lot of people miss out fine, especial on legue ded or withlike most small businesses. In fact, Amean your audiences, btob or Tano thouunderstand it's important to understand. Tha's people make decisions. Eightypercent based on emotions and twenty percent based on logic, yeah. The funnything is that once they committed to buying something emotionally, even ifthe logical part of the brain says hey, maybe that's not a good purchasetconvinced himself that it was a good purchase Yeh, so emotional selling isso important and the only way that the best way that humans know how to sellemotionally is through stories. So by the end of call that client actuallycried ITR. I did a post on it this morning,so we were talking all about. You know how crying was a sign of strength andnot weakness and how you kno women ought to be IM powered. So coming backto a point, I think you know a lot of people don't realize that the smalleryour business is the stronger. Your story point is going to be because thebigger your organization gets, the more people join right. Then it's going tobe corporatized, its gon O Beallbu Oways, the vision ance the sales target.What we try to achieve when you're small theol company's story andcalvision and coamission is going to Prety, be pretty much tight to yourpersonal story and to kind of like put a rest in a matter a'm, not saying thatwe should create sop stories ray it's, not sob stories that we should create,like a lot of people. Have this Mentalityda? Oh just because we'resharing stories that get huge engagement is automatically you know,bs or something that you know. We came up with all the hat or something butlike what you mention about losing your father right. That was somethingpestnal to you and it takes something...

...within yourself to be able to kind ofopen up, apply it to content, much less linked to whatever that you are. Thatis motivating you to do something like swetfish media, yatoday right. It'slike so many different layers in in stor, telling te call it layering. Soit's not really. I say a lot of the challenges that small businesses haveis like: th Y, they tend to distant themselves from the business thatthey're sirting up, for example like if you're starting a cup, Kicke business.Larda people think that, Oh with all the Best Cup kickes, no that's atechnical point. People will only know you sell the Best Cup kickes of Thadefv taste at your cup kicks, but why again? This goes back to eide. You gotto get their attention, interest and desire. So before you actually get themto taste your cup kicks, then now the technical aspect that Youk Cup cakesare the best they've got to be sold emotionally into it and story. Tellingis the best way to do that. I love it now that your your spot on we're we'revery aligned in our thinking around this Jonsowe could talk about this fordays, I think, but if ther, if there's somebody listening to this Jon they'they've resognated with what you've said they want to follow along yourjourney, continue to see the stories that you're sharing or they want. Ta Golearn more about Lincopedia and what you're up to there whate are the bestways for them to go bock doing both of those things aus best simple, Caooconnect with me on lintand. I think James Wul be kind enough to leave alink Sht if not gingers, check out Lindoln Peder, that's Linken, follow byan encyclopedia tepedia behind it to that slengthin, Pedia dotomlofit.Wonderful, John, will. Thank you so much for your time today and I'vereally really gotten a lot of fun with this conversation, so I think our ourlisteners will get a lot of value out of it as well. So I realy appreciate itand thanks O ot change. If you're a Bauy, we want tfeatre YoSitek, the HUCKINGTON post social media,...

...examine our ICHE worer. Every week wesen that a question really an to be to be marketin. We use the responses tothose questions to feel the content. We write for really popular websites sohead over to sweetfish, mead, tcom, slash questions and sign up today.Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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