598: 5 Scientifically Proven Behavioral Hacks to Increase Sales w/ Mark Dimassimo

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Mark DiMassimo, Founder & Chief at DiMassimo Goldstein.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-dimassimo/

Looking for a guaranteed way to createcontent that resonates with your audience? Start a podcast, interview your ideal clientsand let them choose the topic of the interview, because if your ideal clientscare about the topic, there's a good chance the rest of your audience willcare about it too. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening tothe BE TOB growth show, podcast dedicated to helping be to be executives achieveexplosive growth. What you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources?You've come to the right place. I'm Jonathan Green and I'm James Carberry.Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the BB growth show. Weare here today with Mark Damassimo. He is the founder and chief at theMassimo Gold Steam. Mark, are you doing today? I'm doing great.Thanks so much. Good to be here. Good. I am very excited tochat with you today. Mark. Based on conversation we were just havingoffline, we're going to be talking about scientifically proven behavioral hacks that our listenerscan start using today. So these are super practical. You. You werewalking me through him just now. I'm really excited to share these, butbefore we do that, I'd love to give our listeners just a little bitof context. Tell us about what you and your team are up to atat Damassamo gold seam. So Demassam goal scene is a twenty one year oldindependent fast growing INC five thousand the last four years in a row, advertisingmarketing design. We call ourselves an inspiring action agency. Our obsession is behaviorchange marketing. Behavior Change Marketing is all about building brands and businesses by helpingorganizations, help people change their decisions and their habits, change their behaviors.I really believe this. This comes from a philosophy. I really believe thattoday, with all the choice that's out there and with all the connectivity that'sout there, people go to market in order to improve their lives, tobecome something. Yeah, and there is no change without changing behavior, andso people are actually looking for marketers to help them move their decisions and theirhabits in the right direction in order to get what they want in life,be what they want to be in life. And you know, I feel that, in a sense, the market places a battleground between those that wouldinfluence you in order to kind of make your life worse and those who wouldinfluence you in order to make your life better. And you know, forme, I want to be on the side of making it better, andthat's what we're all about. I love it. I love it. Andso, as we're talking about this, before we started recording, mark youmentioned there being two brains and and and so you said there's, you know, there's the alligator brain and then there's what you call the deliberative brain.Can you talk to us about these two...

...brains? And then we're going todive into to some tools. So this is a metaphor from from a brilliantprofessor, dynamic professor at the Yale School of Management, who focuses on behavioraleconomics and Behavioral Science. In her name is Zoe Zoe chance, and ZoeChances Metaphor is and this is, you know, based on her review ofenormous amounts of behavioral science data. So Behavioral Science, Behavioral Economics, clinicalintervention, mobile intervention. There's a lot of research out there these days thatyou can tap into as a be to be sales oriented marketer, and she'sdone a lot of the work for you. So she says there are two kindsof brains. There's the alligator brain and the alligator brain is it's unconscious, it's immediate in its reactions, it's visceral and emotional, and you knowthat is in contrast to this other brain, which is deliberative, conscious, slow, sequential, thoughtful. So, you know, people say, wow, these are metaphors, these aren't really two brains. The more we havescience to the more we realize there really are two systems for how we respond. Our unconscious system, the alligator brain, in the other system. So ityou know, there's a there's truth to this metaphor. It isn't merelya metaphor. So, going back to one of the the alligator brain,which is kind of what we think about without even consciously thinking that we're doingit. Is that right? That's exactly right. Okay, it's the reasonwe make decisions that we that are not really rational. God well, youknow, because because we react so quickly and react in ways we don't evenconsciously understand. And so what are some tools that the B to be marketerslistening to this, the folks in the Sales Organization listening to this? Whatare some tangible tools that they can use to kind of understand these things andand really engage their buyers. Engage at alligator brain, you know, thepart of their brain that the buyer doesn't even really know that you know.This is why I'm reacting the way I am. All right, great,great question, because that's exactly what they need to do. They need toif they if you want to amp your success in be to be be,to be sales, you need to engage the alligator brain. You no onewins on the deliberative brain. The deliberative brain can't even take action. It'sit will sometimes act in service of the alligator brain in order to sort ofprevent his asters. Right yeah, but in fact it's the alligator brain thatyou've got to go for. So, you know, one of the biggestissues in in be to be marketing, and I'm just going to zero rightin on sales. I mean we've all had it. The the prospects appointmentwith you is not their top priority, right. So we work so hardto get on the schedule and then the...

...day comes in a certain percentage ofour prospects cancel those meetings. What if I could tell you a behavioral hackthat would dramatically increase the number of those meetings that actually happen, I wouldsay please tell it to me. Okay. So one avenue to the alligator brandis the avenue of at tension. Okay, and the principle is this. The more you can get that alligator brain to pay attention, the betteryou will do with that prospect. Okay. So here is an experimentally proven hack. This is this comes out of experiments that they actually did up atyeal. It's called the attention bias. If you can get the prospect tospend just a little bit more time on planning your meeting, they are muchmore likely to show up for that meeting to keep that meeting. So here'show you do it. Okay, a lot of people say, okay,can I get a meeting on the book, and the prospect says sure, Thursdayat eleven. I've only got a half hour. Okay, here's whatyou do. You don't just say great, I've got a meeting. Shut up, don't ruin it. No, you've got to go against that instinctand do the opposite. You have to respond and say I want to beclear on where we're meeting. So okay, now they have to respond about wherethey're meaning. Can you tell me a couple of other things? Youknow I'm driving. I'm going to take ninety five. Do you think that'sa that's a that's a good route. Can you tell me about the roomwill be meeting in? I'm bringing some technology and I want to make sureit's the right technology for presenting to you. I'm not saying there's there's there's probablya level of onerousness that you don't want to get to. But mypoint is if you can engage them in the details and get them to spendjust that little bit more time, they will have paid more attention. Theywill have felt as if they've invested in that meeting. The alligator brain thinksthis is important. Unconsciously, this must be important. I've devoted some timeto it and attention, they're much more likely to keep the meeting. Ilove it. So by captivating that attention, getting them to commit so some oftheir own brain power early on, the likelihood of them canceling later goesgoes down significantly. This next tool that you mentioned to me offline mark isease. Talk to us about this tool and how we can use it.So there's a there's a whole body of behavior change, marketing, behavioral science, Behavioral Economics, research on the on the effect of ease. The reasonI bring this up is is there there's there's also a lot of research onthe bias of salespeople and marketers to focus on motivation. So if you thinkof the two sides, the two sides of behavior change, of sales,of marketing, as one increasing the motivation.

We just got to get this personto want it so bad that they do something about it, right,and the other side, ease. We just have to make this so easyto do that it's a no brainer. Well, your key to which worksharder is that word, no brainer. Okay, yeah, because no brainerconnects to the alligator mind. And in fact, when you look at thetwo factors, increasing motivation and and increasing ease, increasing each ease has amuch larger effect on what people will actually do. Okay, and so youknow, I see, for example, master salesman, master salespeople, usingweb platforms to let allow people to schedule Appointments, and think about what thatdoes. One they've paid more attention, they've actually chosen a time, they'veinteracted with you to you've made it super easy for them to do it.These are the masters. Okay, that's so. So I would say,just if you one famous piece of research is they wanted to get people incafeterias to eat more salad. So they did experiments where they put the saleat at eye level versus where they put the salad down, you know,a foot or two for my level, and in fact when the salad wasat eye level, people ate a lot more salad. In fact, withthe most important intervention they could do, putting signs up about how great saladis. Trying to increase motivation did not work, not nearly as much asjust making it easier. I love it, I love it. Okay, sowe've got we've got a tension, we've got ease. This next toolthat we're going to talk about is scarcity. Talk to us about this and mark. Yes, scarcity. So people are again, there's great bodies ofbehavior science on this. People are much more motivated by avoiding a loss thanthey are by creating a gain. Now, you know that sounds okay. Ican sort of get this, but you know, when you when youthink about the implications of this, it gets really weird. By experimental proof, people will work much harder to avoid losing a hundred dollars then they willto gain a hundred dollars. Interesting. Now, traditional economists will say peopleare rational optimizers. Right, a hundred dollars more is exactly the same valueas a hundred dollars less. But psychologically, no, behaviorally know. So ifyou present your offer, whether that's an offer to meet, an offerfor to share information and offered us to buy. Now, if you presentit within the context or frame of scarcity, you know it's getting near the endof the month. I'm only going to be able to write three moreof these by the end of the month. That the demand has been larger thanI my I thought my boss is...

...basically saying we can only do threemore of these, whatever it is in your world. Yeah, present itwithin the frame of scarcity. It activates that alligator rejection of potential loss.People are suddenly saying I have this opportunity but it's going away right or whenI'm one of the few people to have this opportunity, that could easily beone of the whether the many people who don't. I need to act onthis. Yeah, it short circuits the deliberative brain and and it has beenshown to dramatically increase uptake. So of course we use this and direct responseadvertising and retail advertising, interactive advertising all the time and it's absolutely something thatworks well within the context of BEAB sales. Got It. Okay. So sothis fourth tool that we're going to talk about, mark is labeling.Explain this one to us. You know, it basically just says what you callit counts. You know, what you call the thing makes a hugedifference in the way it's filed in the brain. And so, you know, take a look at what jet blue did. So you know, lotsof airlines have first class and business class, right. So that's that. Andyou know, at Fret First First Class sounded amazing, right, firstclass was was first class. Yeah, and then over time first class gotto be sort of ordinary and you know, virgin came in with upper class andthat added a sort of a British cast snobbiness to it and that kindof worked for a while. So now there was first class, business classand and upper class. When jet blue tried to solve the problem of howdo we create this really special experience but do it in a more American,more sort of democratic you know, more sort of Internet era way. Theywant a whole different direction with their naming. And they called it mint. Andyou know mint. So imagine the alligator brain with mint. You havea media sort of scent associations, right, it's you. Maybe maybe you smellthe freshness of mint again in your unconscious alligator brain. Maybe you thinkof a mint automobile, right, and that you know, that Sheen,that shine, you know. Maybe you think of a newly minted coin,currency or whatever. So the label itself adds value, and we see thisin experiments. I mean, not only are people more likely to buy,but people will pay a premium. There is no such thing as a commodityright. The label can change the value for people. The scarcity, theease, the attention, it all can change the value for people. Andso so how does that you know? For A me tob company, doesthat mean changing, you know, the...

...names of their how they label theirproducts and services? Is it? Is it deeper than that? Yeah,I think it is deeper than that. I think I think ultimately, reallywant to think through the entire journey of the prospect. Okay, and notonly that, because we need to motivate our partners in our salespeople to andbe to be sales right. So think about their journeys as well and youknow they're there. Could be a good argument about where it's the most importantplace to start. I tend to like to start with with our without whoI think the people I think of as the as our ambassadors are advocates.I would start with the employees in the salespeople. But either way, youthink of the whole journey and you think about the way your competitors are namingthings throughout the journey and you have the opportunity to relabel. Think very carefullyabout it. So you know we're a company that's about growth through behavior changemarketing. So you know we don't have a strategy, as many agencies doright. What we have as a theory of growth and a behavior change strategy. So it's easy to step back and say, well, that's BS,it's just the same thing. Well, actually, no, I mean we'restudying, we're learning. Our aspiration is to make it as different as wepossibly can. But the truth is at the at that alligator, you know, level of brain, it doesn't matter. Well, the label makes everybody responddifferently, you know. Finally, I just saw research. This wasbrought up to me by my ten year old son, who's reading the NewYork Time Science Section, and they've now actually found out that you literally tastewine differently when it is in a different shaped glass. Interesting. So BehaviorScience had proven that you you think you taste it differently, but brain sciencehas now proven that you actually taste differently when the glass is a different shape. Who Your beliefs actually affect the part of your brain the tastes? HuhSo? So sent even sense isn't sort of one channel, it's not directlyfrom your mouth to your brain, and that's taste. No, taste isa function of belief. It's a function of your multiple senses as well.So, in fact, labeling and every other way you can affect the sensoryexperience of your salesperson, of your prospect, makes a huge difference. Makes Sense. All right, mark this. Last two we're going to talk aboutis urgency. Explain this one. Well, look, urgency is a variation onscarcity, but urgency, it just happened. It deserves its own categorybecause urgency just works so well. There's...

...something intuitive about us, right,there's something intuitive about about folks. You know, maybe it's called impulse control, and many of us have enough impulse control to be reasonably successful in life. So the intuition behind that is we kind of know at some level thatwe have an alligator brain that could get us into trouble, and so wetry to slow down and engage the deliberative, sequential brain. One thing that justshort circuits that process like nothing else is a sense of urgency. Whenyou can create a sense of urgency, it creates a sense of excitement andpeople that stimulates the alligator brain and represses the deliberative brain. And so youknow, if you basically say I actually have a special price that I'm ableto offer, but it's only available for the next ten minutes, could Ihave, you know, five minutes of your time or you know, I'munder a lot of pressure in order to close up my books for the endof end of the quarter, and so I'm able to make some deals thatI would not be able to make it any other time. I don't thinkI've ever done this before, but we would just have to have the conversationwithin twenty four hours. There are many ways of including urgency, yeah,in your sales process that work really well. Can I give you one lucky strikeextra? Yeah, absolutely are just contemplate this, because this is thisis research that I just saw which just blows me away. If you're showingthe old price and the discount price, is it better to show them closetogether or further apart? Do you want to guess? I mean close together. I would think that is that happens to be what I thought and whatwhat most marketers and experts would think. In fact, research is shown thatwhen you show them further apart, that it increases the sales, you know, markedly. We don't know why. We think that maybe the alligator brainsays, look, how far that lower price is from the higher price,right, yeah, and you know so again, maybe it's an internal levellabeling thing. We don't actually know why that works, but it just goesto show that factors that you would think are rational not worthy of attention canactually make up a market statistically significant difference in your sales and in your success. Interesting, very interesting. Will mark this has been fantastic. I reallyappreciate you sharing these five tools that've been really helpful for me. I knowour listeners are going to get a ton of value as well, if there'ssomebody listening, they want to stay connected with you, mark, what's thebest way for them to do that? Well, first all off, markat Dgo Brandscom. Feel free to email...

...me, mark, and they areK at Digo Bra A and dscom. I'm also connect with me on Linkedin. I love to connect with like minded folks on Linkedin. Mark Di Massimoat Mark de Massimo on twitter and Dgo Brandscom on the web. Love itawesome, Mark, will, thank you so much for your time today.Again, this has been fantastic, so I really appreciate it. Thank youso much. If you've been getting valued from this podcast, you can helpus reach more people by reviewing the show on itunes. Here's how you canleave a review in less than a minute. Open your podcast APP and tap thesurge icon in the bottom right corner. Type in B toob growth, thenselect our show. Once you're there, tap the reviews tab and tell uswhat you think of the show. These reviews help us out of time. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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