594: How the Biggest B2B Brands Use Empathy-Based Marketing w/ Brian Carroll

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Brian Carroll, Founder & CEO at Markempa.

There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers to pay attention to your brand? Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients to be guests on your show. Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the B tob growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executives achieve explosive growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the B tob growth show. We are here today with Brian Carroll. He is the founder and CEO at Mark Empa. Brian, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. I'm really, really excited to chat with you. Brian. We were talking off line about a topic that is very near and dear to both of us. It's empathy, and we're going to be talking...

...about empathy based marketing today. But before we get into that, I'd love for a listeners to just have a little bit of contexts as to why you're the guy to be talking about this. So tell us about Mark Empa and what you guys are doing over there. So I founded mark emp, but really out of frustration that all the work I did, I worked in lead generation for the complex sales for twenty years and all this effort and energy and generating leads, one to two percent of marketing generated leads actually become customers. And so I started day Gat into why. And what they found is it's the motivation or customer. It's how they feel. And we most marketers, I mean there's research from forests and others that marketers struggle actually predicting the next best step for their customer and having that intuitive sense. So what we do is help companies understand really what motivates their customers so they can better connect and ultimately help them on their journey. And and for us as marketers and sellers,...

...we want conversion, but what our customers want is is they need help and they need people can have the insights to help them accomplish what they need to do. Gotta Talk To us about why empathy? Why is this so important? Why the marketers need to care about this? Well, first of all, right, now we as marketers and sellers have a trust gap with our customers. So helps about just to. The study found three percent of customers actually trust sellers or marketers. So we have that. And the other thing is is that it's gotten incredibly hard to for customers and be to be a buy as hard as as for us as be to be to sell. It's even harder for our customers to buy because what's happened is is the complexities increased and the emotional cost of making a bad decision is increased and people have to run a gaunt. It is very difficult. And so why empathy matters is that we spend so much of our time trying to do marketing and selling to our customers instead of actually doing it with our customers, because they need...

...to sell the idea of change inside their companies. And the problem is is most of the time we don't have a full understanding their world, their current experience, to actually see things from their point of view and how they think and how they're feeling to help that journey. And most of the work that happens is value proposition, bring it into the company and how it's going to help someone's work. But what we miss and the biggest Opportunity Seeb to study just found that customers personal cost. You know how how they're impacted personally. If we can connect with that personal value that has, increases the likelihood of conversion by over two hundred percent and the likelihood someone's going to pay a premium. So that's why empathy matters. It helps us get that understandings. Super Practical. Got It? Okay. So if that's kind of the underlying concept there, Brian, the next step is, what can you actually do to start taking action on this, to apply empathy based marketing into what you're doing,...

...into your interaction with prospects, with customers? What are the next steps here? Well, for marketers, I think it really comes down to empathizing with your customers feelings and problems by going into their world to understand. So here's what I mean. These are really practical things. I'm talking about using things and skills like empathetic and listening. So getting into the world your customer in the third your listening therapistcal it, but you're what you're trying to do is listen for the what is behind what is being said. So often we listen to what you know, what the intent, respond and in convinced, but we need to dig deeper. The other thing is is marketers. If you have bus since development rep, sales development reps, listen to the calls customers are having and so amazing the amount of emotional content that's in those conversations that get dismissed. And a great tool is something that I didn't create,...

...but I've been using ideo and Stanford d school has something called empathy maps, and so I created a version of that which is mapping four things. What your customers saying right now in their current status, quote experience. What are they doing right now? So you can write now on a sheet of paper, draw for quadrants, what are they saying, what are they doing? And then now on the other side, that's what you can see. Internal world is what we can see, and this is where empathy helps us have our intuition, your empathy as your marketing and selling intuition, as understanding. What do they thinking and what do they feeling? And so the those are things practically we can do right now. I love it. I love it, and so you had shared offline, Brian, that there are a lot of companies is succeeding. One particular example you give us slack. Can you talk to us about empathy being, you know, core value for slack. Talk to us about yeah, I think if other people can see like okay, this actually works. Yeah, so tell us the slack story and any...

...other stories that you think would be helpful. So quick bring up so scroop barter field just talked about empathy. It's it's actually a core value. They're the fastest growing start up in history, the fastest two billion and he just started. It's really difficult to designs something for someone unless you have empathy. So slack actually does not do any email marketing. They have this community of users and it's actually a core value. They hire employees for empathy. It's part of the culture and what they want to do is take care of people inside so they can actually focus on what's happening outside. And so they're a great example drift. Drift is another company that is disruptive. They're seeing exponential growth. I love empt marketing. Talked about to the CEO that. The CEO said, you know, why is it that we're protecting our content behind forms? It really isn't helping our customers, is it? You know what, why don't we make that that content available? Because what they were seeing...

...is and if you notice, in drift strategy. They're one of the companies I profile. Actually, IBM right now is gearing up to become the world's largest design company and they're doing boot camps where employees learning how to apply their empathy to connect better with colleagues and clients and they're doing this to tap in their customers feelings and and finally, if you read the authorized Steve Jobs biography Mike Bracola, before apple, when the apple to launch Steve Jobs didn't know anything about marketing. A microcool. At the very first value, the very first thing in the apple's marketing plan was empathy and just in the focus was this, and you'll see Steve Jobs, I feel, accomplish this, which is we're going to understands our customers need some motivations better than anyone else and I think they've done extraordinary job of that. So those are just some examples of empathy based companies. I love it. I love it and so obviously, when you when you understand why customers are behaving a certain way, when...

...you understand how they're thinking about different decisions that they're making and of below the surface, that's a one of the big takeaways that I'm taking away from this conversation. Brian is going deeper and I loved what she said about not just listening to what they're saying, but listening to what's behind what they're saying. And when you can understand those newances, it makes perfect sense that you can cater your messaging to meet that. You can cater different features of your product to meet that. You mentioned drift. One thing that I just saw an article that they put out the other day. I love the brand they're building. We've had their director of marketing on our PODCAST, were about to have their VP of growth on our show and the next couple weeks. One thing they did they talked about for reasons that their customers churn and and so that authentic, very transparent approach to saying this is why people actually leave us and this is what we're doing to fix it. Do you think that transparency and...

...empathy are sympatico? Where do you see the relationship between companies that really emphasize transparency and companies that get empathy as well? Well? I think the totally so. Yes. Yes, yes, because authenticity in being genuine and part of what I get to do is I interview customers about their experience of their buyers journey, and I quickly'd like a CEO. Talked about is when someone feels like you're their advocate, and partly that means that we are straight up and we talked about our weaknesses and everything in marketing inside us. You know, we want to look good, we want to be the leading company, but the thing is is we all know we're in perfect you know, and we all have areas of growth. And so what I found and eat and this act say, I use my own consulting. As I talked about, my clients know their guinea pigs. This is a whole new science. There isn't research in this area. We are breaking new ground together. And so...

...there's this thing of talking about up front what you can't do, where you're not successful or you know who you aren't best working with. It's amazing because you're much more believable when you're sharing the warts and your upfront about sharing those. People think that. I mean there's there's just this trust factor. Yes, and and so I read that blog post from Ja and I'm a I'm a drift customer and I saw that and I go, oh my gosh, these guys get it like they that you. You nailed it, Brian. You said people want to work with somebody that is advocating for them, and what better way to showcase that you are an advocate for your customers than to put front and center why customers leave and what you're doing to fix your major recognizing that you see it and you're actually taking action on it, as opposed to the brand that pretends like the the the warts aren't there. We all know that. You know in every business customers churn, so why not shine...

...a light on it? And I see a lot of synergy between transparency and empathy. They seem to be very interconnected. So it's very is to hear your thoughts. I appreciate you sharing that, Brian. Is Is there anything else? You obviously do a lot of talking about empathy based marketing and I want I want listeners to really I want them to stay connected with you, because we can't do there's not enough time in this interview for you to go in depth of of all you've learned. But if there was one takeaway as it related to empathy based marketing, what would you want the listener hearing this to walk away with after, after listening to our conversation today. I'm going to leave with one thought. I'll call the the golden rule of empathy based marketing, and it's this instead of the the golden rule, which is treat others is you want to be treated. What what empathy based marketing is is treating your customers the way they want to be treated. And to know that,...

...though, it means you need to actually dig in and really seek to understand and understand the motivations. And you know, the best marketing selling feels like helping, because it is. Yeah, and so that's that's really the the motivation intent behind what I'm trying to do. I love it, Brian. My last question. What is the legacy that you want to leave? So when I talked with marketers, I hear the the same things over and over again about impact, which is I want to feel like what I'm doing is making impact that isn't top line or bottom line, but that I'm actually making a real difference. And what's behind that is they want to feel that they aren't just the lead machines, that they aren't just the the company, the the individuals looking at pipeline, but that they actually are helping transform how their organizations connect with customers and they want to feel good about what they're doing, that they're really making a difference, and so that's what drives me to...

...you know that it's an inside out instead of an outside and approach to connecting with customers. So that's the impact I'm going to leave. I love it, Brian. If there's somebody listening to this, they want to stay connected with you. They want to learn more about Mark Kempa. What's the best way for them to go about doing that? They can go to mark empacom, Mr Kaempacom and find out more. I love it. Awesome, Brian. Will thank you so much for you're time to day. I really appreciate it. Thank you. To ensure that you never miss an episode of the B Tob Growth Show, subscribe to the show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. This guarantees that every episode will get delivered directly to your device. If you'd like to connect with B tob executives from all over the world, make sure to join our private facebook community. There are some incredible conversations happening inside this group. To Join, Visit Bob Growth Showcom FB. Thank you so much for listening. UNTIL NEXT DON.

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