594: How the Biggest B2B Brands Use Empathy-Based Marketing w/ Brian Carroll

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Brian Carroll, Founder & CEO at Markempa.

There's a ton of noise out there. So how do you get decision makers to pay attention to your brand?Start a podcast and invite your ideal clients to be guests on your show.Learn more at sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to the B tob growth show, a podcast dedicated to helping be to be executives achieve explosive growth. Whetheryou're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to theright place. I'm James Carberry and I'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into theshow. Welcome back to the B tob growth show. We are here todaywith Brian Carroll. He is the founder and CEO at Mark Empa. Brian, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. I'm really, really excited to chat with you. Brian. We were talking off lineabout a topic that is very near and dear to both of us. It'sempathy, and we're going to be talking...

...about empathy based marketing today. Butbefore we get into that, I'd love for a listeners to just have alittle bit of contexts as to why you're the guy to be talking about this. So tell us about Mark Empa and what you guys are doing over there. So I founded mark emp, but really out of frustration that all thework I did, I worked in lead generation for the complex sales for twentyyears and all this effort and energy and generating leads, one to two percentof marketing generated leads actually become customers. And so I started day Gat intowhy. And what they found is it's the motivation or customer. It's howthey feel. And we most marketers, I mean there's research from forests andothers that marketers struggle actually predicting the next best step for their customer and havingthat intuitive sense. So what we do is help companies understand really what motivatestheir customers so they can better connect and ultimately help them on their journey.And and for us as marketers and sellers,...

...we want conversion, but what ourcustomers want is is they need help and they need people can have theinsights to help them accomplish what they need to do. Gotta Talk To usabout why empathy? Why is this so important? Why the marketers need tocare about this? Well, first of all, right, now we asmarketers and sellers have a trust gap with our customers. So helps about justto. The study found three percent of customers actually trust sellers or marketers.So we have that. And the other thing is is that it's gotten incrediblyhard to for customers and be to be a buy as hard as as forus as be to be to sell. It's even harder for our customers tobuy because what's happened is is the complexities increased and the emotional cost of makinga bad decision is increased and people have to run a gaunt. It isvery difficult. And so why empathy matters is that we spend so much ofour time trying to do marketing and selling to our customers instead of actually doingit with our customers, because they need...

...to sell the idea of change insidetheir companies. And the problem is is most of the time we don't havea full understanding their world, their current experience, to actually see things fromtheir point of view and how they think and how they're feeling to help thatjourney. And most of the work that happens is value proposition, bring itinto the company and how it's going to help someone's work. But what wemiss and the biggest Opportunity Seeb to study just found that customers personal cost.You know how how they're impacted personally. If we can connect with that personalvalue that has, increases the likelihood of conversion by over two hundred percent andthe likelihood someone's going to pay a premium. So that's why empathy matters. Ithelps us get that understandings. Super Practical. Got It? Okay.So if that's kind of the underlying concept there, Brian, the next stepis, what can you actually do to start taking action on this, toapply empathy based marketing into what you're doing,...

...into your interaction with prospects, withcustomers? What are the next steps here? Well, for marketers,I think it really comes down to empathizing with your customers feelings and problems bygoing into their world to understand. So here's what I mean. These arereally practical things. I'm talking about using things and skills like empathetic and listening. So getting into the world your customer in the third your listening therapistcal it, but you're what you're trying to do is listen for the what is behindwhat is being said. So often we listen to what you know, whatthe intent, respond and in convinced, but we need to dig deeper.The other thing is is marketers. If you have bus since development rep,sales development reps, listen to the calls customers are having and so amazing theamount of emotional content that's in those conversations that get dismissed. And a greattool is something that I didn't create,...

...but I've been using ideo and Stanfordd school has something called empathy maps, and so I created a version ofthat which is mapping four things. What your customers saying right now in theircurrent status, quote experience. What are they doing right now? So youcan write now on a sheet of paper, draw for quadrants, what are theysaying, what are they doing? And then now on the other side, that's what you can see. Internal world is what we can see,and this is where empathy helps us have our intuition, your empathy as yourmarketing and selling intuition, as understanding. What do they thinking and what dothey feeling? And so the those are things practically we can do right now. I love it. I love it, and so you had shared offline,Brian, that there are a lot of companies is succeeding. One particularexample you give us slack. Can you talk to us about empathy being,you know, core value for slack. Talk to us about yeah, Ithink if other people can see like okay, this actually works. Yeah, sotell us the slack story and any...

...other stories that you think would behelpful. So quick bring up so scroop barter field just talked about empathy.It's it's actually a core value. They're the fastest growing start up in history, the fastest two billion and he just started. It's really difficult to designssomething for someone unless you have empathy. So slack actually does not do anyemail marketing. They have this community of users and it's actually a core value. They hire employees for empathy. It's part of the culture and what theywant to do is take care of people inside so they can actually focus onwhat's happening outside. And so they're a great example drift. Drift is anothercompany that is disruptive. They're seeing exponential growth. I love empt marketing.Talked about to the CEO that. The CEO said, you know, whyis it that we're protecting our content behind forms? It really isn't helping ourcustomers, is it? You know what, why don't we make that that contentavailable? Because what they were seeing...

...is and if you notice, indrift strategy. They're one of the companies I profile. Actually, IBM rightnow is gearing up to become the world's largest design company and they're doing bootcamps where employees learning how to apply their empathy to connect better with colleagues andclients and they're doing this to tap in their customers feelings and and finally,if you read the authorized Steve Jobs biography Mike Bracola, before apple, whenthe apple to launch Steve Jobs didn't know anything about marketing. A microcool.At the very first value, the very first thing in the apple's marketing planwas empathy and just in the focus was this, and you'll see Steve Jobs, I feel, accomplish this, which is we're going to understands our customersneed some motivations better than anyone else and I think they've done extraordinary job ofthat. So those are just some examples of empathy based companies. I loveit. I love it and so obviously, when you when you understand why customersare behaving a certain way, when...

...you understand how they're thinking about differentdecisions that they're making and of below the surface, that's a one of thebig takeaways that I'm taking away from this conversation. Brian is going deeper andI loved what she said about not just listening to what they're saying, butlistening to what's behind what they're saying. And when you can understand those newances, it makes perfect sense that you can cater your messaging to meet that.You can cater different features of your product to meet that. You mentioned drift. One thing that I just saw an article that they put out the otherday. I love the brand they're building. We've had their director of marketing onour PODCAST, were about to have their VP of growth on our showand the next couple weeks. One thing they did they talked about for reasonsthat their customers churn and and so that authentic, very transparent approach to sayingthis is why people actually leave us and this is what we're doing to fixit. Do you think that transparency and...

...empathy are sympatico? Where do yousee the relationship between companies that really emphasize transparency and companies that get empathy aswell? Well? I think the totally so. Yes. Yes, yes, because authenticity in being genuine and part of what I get to do isI interview customers about their experience of their buyers journey, and I quickly'd likea CEO. Talked about is when someone feels like you're their advocate, andpartly that means that we are straight up and we talked about our weaknesses andeverything in marketing inside us. You know, we want to look good, wewant to be the leading company, but the thing is is we allknow we're in perfect you know, and we all have areas of growth.And so what I found and eat and this act say, I use myown consulting. As I talked about, my clients know their guinea pigs.This is a whole new science. There isn't research in this area. Weare breaking new ground together. And so...

...there's this thing of talking about upfront what you can't do, where you're not successful or you know who youaren't best working with. It's amazing because you're much more believable when you're sharingthe warts and your upfront about sharing those. People think that. I mean there'sthere's just this trust factor. Yes, and and so I read that blogpost from Ja and I'm a I'm a drift customer and I saw thatand I go, oh my gosh, these guys get it like they thatyou. You nailed it, Brian. You said people want to work withsomebody that is advocating for them, and what better way to showcase that youare an advocate for your customers than to put front and center why customers leaveand what you're doing to fix your major recognizing that you see it and you'reactually taking action on it, as opposed to the brand that pretends like thethe the warts aren't there. We all know that. You know in everybusiness customers churn, so why not shine...

...a light on it? And Isee a lot of synergy between transparency and empathy. They seem to be veryinterconnected. So it's very is to hear your thoughts. I appreciate you sharingthat, Brian. Is Is there anything else? You obviously do a lotof talking about empathy based marketing and I want I want listeners to really Iwant them to stay connected with you, because we can't do there's not enoughtime in this interview for you to go in depth of of all you've learned. But if there was one takeaway as it related to empathy based marketing,what would you want the listener hearing this to walk away with after, afterlistening to our conversation today. I'm going to leave with one thought. I'llcall the the golden rule of empathy based marketing, and it's this instead ofthe the golden rule, which is treat others is you want to be treated. What what empathy based marketing is is treating your customers the way they wantto be treated. And to know that,...

...though, it means you need toactually dig in and really seek to understand and understand the motivations. Andyou know, the best marketing selling feels like helping, because it is.Yeah, and so that's that's really the the motivation intent behind what I'm tryingto do. I love it, Brian. My last question. What is thelegacy that you want to leave? So when I talked with marketers,I hear the the same things over and over again about impact, which isI want to feel like what I'm doing is making impact that isn't top lineor bottom line, but that I'm actually making a real difference. And what'sbehind that is they want to feel that they aren't just the lead machines,that they aren't just the the company, the the individuals looking at pipeline,but that they actually are helping transform how their organizations connect with customers and theywant to feel good about what they're doing, that they're really making a difference,and so that's what drives me to...

...you know that it's an inside outinstead of an outside and approach to connecting with customers. So that's the impactI'm going to leave. I love it, Brian. If there's somebody listening tothis, they want to stay connected with you. They want to learnmore about Mark Kempa. What's the best way for them to go about doingthat? They can go to mark empacom, Mr Kaempacom and find out more.I love it. Awesome, Brian. Will thank you so much for you'retime to day. I really appreciate it. Thank you. To ensurethat you never miss an episode of the B Tob Growth Show, subscribe tothe show in Itunes or your favorite podcast player. This guarantees that every episodewill get delivered directly to your device. If you'd like to connect with Btob executives from all over the world, make sure to join our private facebookcommunity. There are some incredible conversations happening inside this group. To Join,Visit Bob Growth Showcom FB. Thank you so much for listening. UNTIL NEXTDON.

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