594: How the Biggest B2B Brands Use Empathy-Based Marketing w/ Brian Carroll

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Brian Carroll, Founder & CEO at Markempa.

There's a ton of noise out there. Sohow do you get decision makers to pay attention to your brand start a podcastand invite your ideal clients to be guess on your show, learn more atsweetfish media dotcom, you're, listening to the Betabe growthshow a potcast dedicated to helping bee to be executives, achiev explosivegrowth, whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools andresources. You've come to the right place, I'm James Carbury and I'mJonathan Green. Let's get into the show, welcome back to the BE T B growth show.We are here today with Brian Carroll, his the founder and CEO at MarcempaBrian. How are you I'm great thanks for heaving me? I'm really really excitedto chat with eubran. We were talking offline about a topic that is verynearand deer to both of us. It's it's empathy and we're going to be talkingabout empathy based marketing today,...

...but before we get into that I'd love,Hor a listener. Tojust have a little bit of context as to why you'r the guyto be talking about this, so tell us about Markempa and what you guys aredoing over there. So I founded marquemput really out offrustration that all the work I did. I I worked in legeneration with a complexsales for twenty years, and all this effort, N and energy and Generat leadsm one to two percent of marketing. Generty leads actually become customers,and so I started diggin into y and what iy found is it's the motivation wherecustomers how they feel and we we most marketers- I mean there's research fromforest andothers that marketers struggle actually predicting the nextbest step for their customer and having that intuitive sense. So what we do ishelp companies understand really what motivates their customers, so they canbetter connect, annulutimately help them on their journey and and for us asmarketers and sellers. We want...

...conversion, but what our customers wantis is they need help and they need people can have the insights to helpthem accomplish what they need to do. Gotto talk to us about. Why empathy?Why is it so important why the marketers need to care about this? Well,first of all, right now we as marketers and sellers have a trust cab with theircustomers. So hopspot just I a study, Yo found three percent of customers,actually trust sellers or marketers. So we have that, and the other thing is,is that it's gotten incredibly hard to for customers and be to be a by as hardas as for us as be to be to sell it's even harder for a customers to buybecause what's happened is: is the complexities increased and theemotional cost of making a bad decision is increased and people have to run aGantlet? It is very difficult, and so why empathy matters is that we spend somuch of our time trying to do marketing and selling to our customers instead ofactually doing it with our customers,...

...because they need to sell the idea ofchanginside their companies and the problem is is most of the time we don'thave a full understanding their world, an their current experience to actuallysee things from their point of view and how they think and how they're feelingto help that journey and most of the work that happens is value propositionbringitg into the company and how is it going to help someone's work, but whatwe miss in the biggest opportunity C B. Thi study just found that customerspersonal cost. You know how how they're impacted personally, if we can connectwith that personal value that has increases likelihood of conversion byover two hundred percent and the likelihood somee's going to pay apremium. That's why empathy matters? It helps us get that understandingssuperpractical got it okay. So if that's kind of the underlying conceptthere Brian the deck step, is what can you actually do to start? Taking actionon this to to apply empathy based...

...marketing into what you're doing intoyour interaction with your prospects with customers? What are the next stepshere? Well for for marketers? I think it. It really comes down to ampathizingwith your customers' feelings and problems by going into their worldstounderstand. So here's what I mean these are really practicl things, I'm talkingabout using things and skills like empathetic andlistening, so gettinginto the world of your customer in the thirty year, listening therapiscallopbut you're. What you're trying to do is listen for the what is behind what isbeing said. How often we listen to what Y K O with the intense o respond andand convince, but we need to dig deeper. The other thing is: Is Um Marketers? Ifyou have B, Develop Merab sales development, reps, listen to the calls,customers are having and so amazing the amount O omotional content. That's inthose conversations that get dismissed and a great tool is something that Ididn't create, but I I've been using...

...ido an Stanford Dschool has somethingcalled empathy maps, and so I created a version of that which is mapping fourthings. What are your customers saying right now in their current status?quoit experience? What are they doing right now? So you can right now on theshoet paper drive four Cadrans, whether they sang what are they doing and thenon the other side, that's what you can see internal world is what we can't see,and this is where empathy helps us have our intuition, your empathy as yourmarketing and selling intuition as understanding what are they thinkingand whethare they feeling, and so those are things practically. We can do rightnow. I love it. I love it, and so you had shared offline Brian that thereare a lot of companies succeeding. One particular example you give was slack,can you talk? Is About embathy? Being you know core value for,for slack talk to us about yeah. I think if other people can see like okay,this actually works. Sho tells the...

...slack story and any other stories thatthat, U would be helpful, so quick, bring up. Soste Barderfield just talkedabout Emphathei, it's actually a core o value, they're the fastest growingstartup history, the fastest two billion N, and he jusstarted it'sreally difficult to design something for someone. Unless you have empathy,so slack actually does not do any email marketing. They have this community ofusers and it's actually a core value of they hihe employees for empathy, it'spart of the culture and what they want to do is take care of people inside, sothey can actually focus on what's happening outside, and so the 'rthey're great example. Drift drift is a another company that Um is disruptivethey're. Seeing exponential growth, AL marketing talked about to the CEO th,the C US said you know. Why is it that we're protecting our content behindforms? It really isn't helping our customers is it you know w? Why don'twe make that that content available,...

...because what they were seeing is and ifyou notice in drift strategy they're one of the companies I profile actuallyIBM right now is gearing up to become the world's largest design company andthey're doing boot camps where employees learning how to apply theirempathy to connect better with colleagues and clients and they'redoing this to tap in their customers' feelings and and finally, if you readthe authorized H, Steve Jobs, biography Mike Becula before apple on the appletwo launch, Steve jobs, didn't know anything about marketing a microcrol atthe very first value. The very first thing in the apples marketing plan wasempathy andand. The focus was this and you'll see Steve Jobs. I feelaccomplish this, which is we're going to understand. Our customers needsmotivations better than anyone else, and I think they've done theextraordinary job of that. So those are just some examples of empathy basecompanies. I love it and so obviously, when you, when you understand whycustomers are baaving a certain way...

...when you understand how they'rethinking about different decisions that they're making and ve below the surface,that's one of the big takeaways that I'm taking away from this conversation.Brian is going deeper and I I loved what she said about not just listeningto what they're saying but listening to. What's behind what they're saying andwhen you can understand those new oncsis, it makes perfect sense that youcan cater your messaging to meet that you can cater different features ofyour product to meet that you mentioned drift. One thing that I I I just saw anarticle that they put out the other day I loved the brand. Their building we'vehad their director of marketing on our POD. CASS were about to have their VPFgrowth on her show in the next couple of weeks. One thing they did: theytalked about four reasons that their customers churn and and so thatauthentic, very transparent approach uosaying. This is why people actuallyleave us, and this is what we're doing to fix it. Do you think thattransparency and empathy or Simpatico...

...wh, where do you see the relation shipbetween companies that really emphasize transparency and companies that getempathy as well? Well, I think the totally so yes, yes, yes, becauseauthenticity in in being genuine an part of what I get to do is I interviewcustomers about their experience of their buyers journey and quickly, likea Co talked about, is when someone feels like you're their advocate, andpartly that means that we are straight up and we talk about our weaknesses andeverything of marketing inside us. You know we want to look good, we want tobe the leading company, but the thing is: is we all know we're imperfect? Youknow and we all have areas of growth, and so what I found and in thisactually I usn my own consulting is I talk about my clients, no they'rethey're guinea pigs. This is a whole new science. There isn't research inthis area. We are breaking new ground...

...together, and so there's this thing oftalking about upfront. What you can't do, where you're not successful- or youknow who you aren't best working with it's amazing, because you're much morebelievable when you're, sharing the warts and you're upfr about sharingthose people, think I meanthere there's this this trust factor you, and so Iread that blogpost from and I'm I'm a drift customer, and I saw that and I gooh my gosh. These guys get it like they th you, you nailed it Brian. You saidpeople want to work with somebody that is advocating for them and what betterway to showcase that you are an advocate for your customers than to putfront in the center. Why customers leave what you're doing to fix it? You're mal, recognizing that you see itand you're actually taking action on it as opposed to the brand that pretendslike the the warts aren't there. We all know that in every business customersTurnso, why not shine a light on it,...

...and I see a lot of synergy between transparency and empathy. They seem tobe very interconnected, so surious to hear your thoughts. I appreciate yousharing that Brin. Is there anything else? You obviously do a lot of talkingabout impathy based marketing, and I want I want listeners to really. I wantthem to stay connected with you because week we can't there's not enough timein this interview. If you you no to go in depth of all you've learned, but ifthere is one takeaway as it related to andto the base marketing, what wouldyou want the listener hearing this to walk away with, after after listeningto our conversation today, I'm going to leave with one thought I'll call thethe golden role of epathy base marketing, and it's this instead of thethe golden rule which is treat others is you want to be treated, but whatempathy base marketing is is treating your customers the way they want to betreated...

...and M. to know that, though it meansyou need to actually dig in and really seek to, understand and and understandthe motivations and you know the best marketing selling feels like helpingbecause it is yeah, and so that's that's really the the motivation andtent behind what I'm trying to do. I love it Brian. My my last question:What is the legacy that you want to leave? So when I talk with marketers, II hear he the same things over and over again about impact, which is, I want tofeel like what I'm doing is making them pack that isn't top line or bottom line,but that I'm actually making a real difference and Um. What what's behindthat IES? They want to feel that they aren't just the lead machines that theyaren't just the the company the individual's looking atpipeline, but that they actually are helping transform, how theirorganizations connect with customers, and they want to feel good about whatthey're doing that they're really making a difference, and so that's whatdrives me too. You know that it's in...

...inside out, instead of an outside andapproach Um to connecting with customers. So that's the impact I'mgointo leave. I love it Brian. If there's somebody listening to this,they want to stay connected with you. They want to learn more about moreCEMPA. What's the best way for them to go BA dotout, they can go to MarcempaOtcom, Mar K, EMPA, dotcom and H, fined up more to love. T OSSANBRIO will thinkhe's so much feo time, Toa Preshet it thank you to ensure that you never miss anepisode of the B to b gross show subscribe to the show in Itunes, whereyour favorite pod cast player. This guarantees that every episode will getdelivered directly to your device. If you'd like to connect with be to beexecutives from all over the world make sure to join our private fasebookcommunity. There are some incredible conversations happening inside thisgroup to join visit. Bta B growth show Otcom, slash FB. Thank you so much forlistening until next time,...

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