586: Podcast Advertising: What B2B Brands Need to Know w/ Patrick Lennon

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Patrick Lennon, Co-Founder of Veritone One.

In today's episode you're going to behearing from a gentleman named Patrick Lenin and we're going to be talking about podcastadvertising. So I thought it would be a really great time to tell youabout a new podcast advertising model that we are actually deploying for this show thatyou're listening to be tob growth. We have started partnering with BB Brands andinstead of doing the traditional fifteen second or thirty two ad spot or even themid roll add we're partnering with sponsors and actually building entire episodes around the successstories of our sponsors customers. And so we recently partnered with bound bound threehundred and Sixtycom and we've done three will be doing three interviews with their customers, and so it's been a really effective model. I feel like it addsvalue to the listener to hear real success stories from customers that are using,you know, the litany of Martech solutions...

...that are on the market today.But it also helps the sponsor by allowing their customer to do their marketing forthem. And so if you are a you represent a BTB brand looking todip your toe in podcast advertising, we would love to chat with you tosee if there's some synergy there and possibly feature your customers stories on this show. On BB growth we're getting just a right around fiftyzero and downloads every month. Our listeners are BDB marketing leaders, CMOS, VP's of marketing agency CEOS. We would love to partner with you, so shoot me an email, jamesat sweet fish Mediacom. And here is our episode with Patrick Lennon.You're listening to the B tob growth show, podcast dedicated to helping be to beexecutives achieve explosive growth. What do you're looking for? Techniques and strategiesor tools and resources? You've come to...

...the right place. I'm Jonathan Greenand I'm James Carberry. Let's get it into the show. Welcome back tothe BB growth show. We are here today with Patrick Lennon. He isthe CO founder of veraitone. One, Patrick, how you doing today?So Great. Thank you. I'm really excited to chat with you today.Patrick. We're going to be talking really about offline marketing, brand specifically withpodcasts. Is a space that you and your team are very familiar with.Excited to dive in to that with you, but but to give our listeners alittle bit of context. Can you explain what is Faratonel on? Whatare you guys all about? What are you and your team doing over there? Sure, thank you so veryitonal one is a full service media buying agency. However, we do have a technology division which is verytone, which isprobably traded, and that technology platform allows visibility and optimization that really hasn't beenseen before in terms of offline media and...

...that that's considered radio, television,Youtube and podcast. So we handle everything from director spot television to audio topodcast at to Youtube, and we do it for some of the biggest ECOMMERCEbrands out there, many of which your listeners use every day, like gooberor word dress on websites or linked in, when you're using linked in. Sowe use a plethora of different media types and we scale campaigns to ato an effective CPA. I love it so, Patrick in in diving moreinto that, we're going to talk specifically about podcasting and some of the resultsthat you guys are seeing in a higher level. They're when it comes tothe media buying for for podcasting. What have you found to be the variablesthat really make for a successful podcasting campaign from an advertising perspective the question andpodcasting is sort of a phenomenon because there's no limit insight in terms of howmuch content can be put into the universe.

So new content coming on every day. We manage between four hundred and six hundred shows a week podcast integrations, and what we do is we target the first take internal research, sowe check all the boxes of all the internal research, you know, itemsthat we have, from pod track to all the different research tools, tomake sure that we're taught, looking to the right demographic, we're talking tothe right consumer, whether it's be to BEBTC, etc. Etc. Then, once we do that, we take internal research and internal research tells uswe spend tens of millions of dollars on podcasts and we understand sort of whatworks what doesn't work to a CEPA, to a demographic. So sometimes theshow might look wonderful on paper and MPR show, let's say, on podcasting, but we know, based on creative restrictions, based on what MPR willwant, when you to do whether it's a pre roll add, a midroll add or a post role add, all those things come into play intermss of driving an effective CPA for for...

...campaigns. We're seeing a lot ofgrowth, lot of success with be tob and have been doing this now withlegal zoom for fifteen years in radio and now moving them into more podcasts becausethe space is so fruitful for kind of efficiency PAS. I love it.We've we've started bringing on more sponsors, specifically a lot of Martet companies,because our audience is made up of bb marketers and so this is this isa area that I'm very interested in. As far as the measurement, yousaid that you know they're performing really well. What are some of the metrics thatyou guys are using to measure success of a BDB brands podcast advertising campaign? Sure, so, every every client we have has different success metrics,Apis call them. So whether it's a CEPA to a new to install,so, whether it's a free trial, it's just it really depends on whatthat clients metrics are. We have real time dashboards that allow our team toin take from a number of different methods...

...data from our clients. So wecan literally turn results around from unique landing pages. So when we go intoa podcast campaign, traditionally podcasters have sort of branded podcasting with a unique url, so that's called indirect so indirect attribution will tell us how many unique visitorscame to a to a site, let's let's say it's legal Zoomcom, slashNPR or legal doom not atom Corolla. Then we know, based on thetraffic it's coming into that unique url, what our cost per uniques are.What are conversions? We can follow that consumer all the way through the funnel. We can see what lifetime value looks like, we can see what averageorder value looks like. Then we capture the indirect on the website, sothe main site of Legal Zoomcom. We might have a different method of capturethere, whether it's a survey, whether there's a lot of different ways wecapture within either pre or post survey.

So we have different methods of doingit. And then our analytics team, we have afore analytics team, devisesa collaboration between each client so they're comfortable with the measurement tactics. And thenwe optimize our day to day basis on a weekly basis and then we cutthose shows that aren't working and we add the shows that are working. Loveit that. Can you speak, patrick a little bit to the creative elementof what makes a podcast ad from your experience, what makes it successful?So creative, creative speaks to each host right and a mistake often times istaking one creative and dispersing it amongst, you know, one thousand, fivehundred and twenty three forty host and saying okay, each involunteer speaks the sameway. We have unique copy that's actually drafted for podcasters because podcast, youknow, each host reads differently. Some like copy points, some like scripts, some like more banter. So there's...

...just there's just a different variety ofthem. We have a full creative team podcast writers. It just right forpodcast medium, for the podcast medium, so they know sort of how tospeak in that language. So it really depends. I mean certain brands aremore of integration in terms of a banter with a creative and some some hostwill read straight, you know, from the script. Not Not that onehost reading from the script doesn't do as well as a hosted is more banter, but you know he shows does it differently. Got It, Patrick is. There's somebody listening to this right now and they're thinking, okay, I'vebeen hearing a lot of people talk about podcasts advertising. I've been hearing somesuccess stories, but you know, I'm brand new to this. Are thereany and of words of wisdom or maybe mistakes that you see brands making whenthey when they venture into podcasts advertising that you would warn them about? Tothe person who have maybe hasn't done it yet but they're about to step intodoing their first campaign? It's good question.

I think the thing that we recentlyget a study that showed if a client comes in and spends less thanseventy five thou over three months, and typically what we tell clients has spendbetween Seventy Five Tho hundred and twenty five thousand over three to four months.Okay, and literally a x more success model comes when people spend that amountof money, because we've taken test that are fifty, that are twenty five, and there three times more likely to succeed in the scale if they stepbetween seventy five and one hundred and twenty five. So the goal here isnot, from an agency standpoint, to get more budget, because any agencythat has the right depth behind it is upside down on a test. Theylose money. So between manpower, between negotiations, everything that we do.So it's really to not get a false negative on the channel, because youhave enough inventory out there and enough shows out there to optimize and to getenough of a read, because shows are,...

...you know, they take a whileto work sometimes. So I was like, don't spend too little,but don't spend too much. Okay, that's that is a fantastic piece ofadvice. It's super, super specific, Teken, so I really appreciate yousharing that insight with this Patrick. Oh Yeah, for sure. We walkedaway from clients and said just save you money. I mean we don't.The end of the day. We keep clients, you know, for ten, fifteen years, you know, because we treated like it's our money andwe just we've seen too many people come in and say, okay, Iwant to spend tenzero and we say stay in digital, stay in print.You know, where you can actually track it. There's so much breakage andwhat we do? You have to really invest the time and resources it.That makes perfect sense. Is there there anything else related to podcast advertising,Patrick, that you think our audience should know before before I get into ourlast question today, Gum, I would just say that podcasting is changing abit in dynamically inserted adds versus embedded. So the way podcast first started wasinbedded ads would live within a show for...

...perpetuity. So hypothetically, let's sayyou know Alec Baldwin on here is the thing which the MP our podcast fiveyears ago. If that show is running, that add that he read, thathe interviewed Michael Douglas, let's say, would stay forever. Your ad wouldstay in there. Nowadays, what they're doing, the bigger shows aredoing it already. About forty percent of shows are doing it. It's dynamicallyinserted. So you're buying impressions. So basically the add still read by AlecBaldwin, let's say. But what happens is as soon as you get youragreed upon number of impressions, your ad is removed and a new AD isput in. So be aware of dynamically assorted. Be Aware of embedded versusthat. In a clincer, we like to have embedded because embedded works better, because it has a longer shelf life and you get drag okay, sothat's one thing. Also, be weary of buying just pre roll beginning ofan ad, beginning of a show or...

...post is something that you should reallybe buying almost it no charge or getting for a very low amount of money. Okay, so those are just some high level topics. Are Howl,some mid roll, kind of mid roll host read ads are really what brandshould be focused on. Those are the best. You know those are.That's the preminamentory because you have a consumer that really doesn't even know it's anadd but pre roll you skip through and post role people have checked out.Mean there's value there, but it's just, you know, you got to justbe able to measure the value by by what you're paying for it.All right, Patrick, well, this this has been fantastic. I wantto close with one last question, which you know, is a question thatI've been asking my guests in the last few weeks. I've been loving theresponses I've been hearing. But Patrick, what is the legacy that you'd liketo leave? You know, I'm unique in the sense that I started themedia agency side of the business when I lost my vision. So I'm blind. I have a little Bit of vision my right eye, so I'm legallyblind. So I've started foundations and then different things for the blind and lowvision and I think the legacy I'm I'd...

...like to leave is that anybody cando anything if you work hard and you know that. You know you don'tgive up. So I think maybe there's there's you know, there's a lotpeople don't do because they just give up. Yeah, man, thathas a fascinating story. I had. I had no idea that you hadlost your site. Yeah, that's incredible, Patrick. If somebody is listening tothis, they want to stay connected with you, they want to learnyou're more about Bariton one. What's the best way for them to go aboutdoing that? Just hit me on Linkedin, Patrick. Last name El n on very tone. You can find me pretty easily, or feel freeto shoot me an email to Patrick at arytone Vril anynecom and I'll gr backthere and thank you for the thanks for the chat today. No problem,Patrick. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.All right. Thanks. Said Bay, to ensure that you never miss anepisode of the B Tob Growth Show,...

...subscribe to the show and Itunes oryour favorite podcast player. This guarantees that every episode will get delivered directly toyour device. If you or someone you know would be an incredible guest forthe B Tob Growth Show. Email me at Jonathan at Sweet Fish Mediacom letus know we love connecting with be to be executives and we love sharing theirwisdom and perspective with our audience. Thank you so much for listening. Untilnext time.

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