559: Who Should Own Customer Experience? w/ Tiffani Bova

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode we talk to Tiffani Bova, Global Customer Growth & Innovation Evangelist at Salesforce.

Are you struggling to come up withoriginal content, weaken and weak out start a boncast interview, your idealclients? Let them talk about what they care about most and never run out ofcontent ideas again: Learn more at sweetfish media dotcom, youere, listening to the Beta, begrowth, show a podcast dedicated to help him be to be executive, achieveexplosive growth, whether you're looking for techniques and strategiesor tools and resources. You've come to the right place, I'm James Carburry andI'm Jonathan Green. Let's get into the show. Welcome back to the beatyby growth showwe're here today with Tiffany Bova. She is the global customer growth andinnovation of angelist at sales fore stipany. How are you doing today? I'mdoing great. I'm excited to chat with you today. Tiffany we're going to betalking about this idea of who owns the customer experience. You've got somereally interesting thoughts around this idea s, it's something that you talkabout often, but before we get into that I'd love to give a little bit ofcontext to our listeners as to as to who you are and a little bit of yourbackground. So can you tell us a little bit bout? What you're doing on a day todoy basis is sells, force yeah, so I've been here almost two years now, it'scrazy march will be two years after I spent a decade at Gartner as adistinguished analyst, an research fellow covering sales transformation,the impactus or digital marketing on the way O companies grow, as well astheir Goo to market models, both direct and indirect. So I spent a good tenyears talking with thousands of customers around the globe about sortof what challenges they were facing and before that I ran sales organizationsfor start up tand fortune, five hundred as well as marketing an customerservice. So I was kind of a practitioning analyst. If you will, Ihad to learn how to be an academic. That's for sure, but you know I I Isort of wear a badge of pride on my sleeve that I'm I call myself arecovering celler, so I sort of still I'm still out there fighting the fightfor the salespeople. So that's how I...

...kindo got here, but on a day to daybasis for sales force. I almost do exactly the same thing except now, I'mmuch closer to following this entire talk track around customer success andexperience being the new product and the new battleground and really howthat impacts, both the sales marketing, but, more importantly, how to pullservice into that conversation as well. I love Sotiphany. That being said, Ia'm really excited for you to dive into this idea of Yo. As we were talkingabout flying. You said that a lot of folks are seeing the buyers journey nowbeing owned by marketing. That's being talked about that ideas being advocatedfor more and more, but you've got a bit of an interesting you've got adifferent take on it. Can you expand on who, you think, should own customerexperience yeah I'll start at the short answer, which is everyone that sort ofthat's the outward answer right? The longer answer gets like that soundsgreat on a powerpoint slide really hard to execute. You know in in reality, butI'd say everyone, but then below that I think, as digital marketing reallystarted to take off tfive years ago, or so I was part of the team. One of mycolleagues came up with the prediction out of Gartner that the CMO was goingto spend more than the CIO and would that one prediction all kinds of crazythings: appen to the market right Oracle, went on a buying spray salesforce, Bot a number of digital marketing companies. Doby pivotedyou've got agencies that have now playing different roles. I mean allkinds of things happened, not just because of that prediction, but I thinkit was just the timing of the temperature of the chief marketingofficer now, starting to get more involved in things beyond just searchengine optimization and the website for o leads and driving leads and figuringout. How do we use all of these omni channels that are in the marketplacetoday, and when that happened? I saw...

...thes shift where the chasm betweensales and marketing, unfortunately, I feel like, has gotten bigger and it was, I believe it had a lot todo with this marketing taking over quote unquote, control of more and moreof the buyer journey because of all the digital tools in their in their toolbox right mean it was a natural response reaction to the things thatthey now had at their disposal, but in doing so it sort of pulled sales ofmarketing even further away, especially in the B TB space, and I think a lot ofthat has come from not having set expectations between the two groups,and I don't mean at the executive level, like the chief marketing and chiefRevenue Officer, get along very well and understand their roles. I mean whenyou get down to an individual quota bearing sales reb and potentially Y W Amarketing manager O Pr Product Marketing Manager for a prodoctorybrand right. That's where I think the disconnectis happen, not necessarilyall the way at the top okay, and so how are you seeing organizations Av solvedfor that disconnect at that level? Ye I'd say two things: One I'd say thatthe silos are being caused and I think in the disconnect between the metricand the measurements that are put in place O, for example, marketing and I'mover simplifying here, obviously marketing. How many leagues did youdrive good or bad like how many leads well now marketing is scoring leads, ok,great well, how are you scoring them and then once you're scoring them, andthen you pass them to somebody, you know could be a sales development. Repcould be a field. rapit inside rap could be a multitude of of other rolesonce they pass it. Are you telling them what to do with those leads based onall this intelligence, or are you just passing the leads over and goingEHERE's a hot lead right, we've scored it. It's scored above an eighty. Youknow out of one to a hundred, and so this requires immediate action, andthen you move on sals goes well. I...

...don't know what to do with that leadand- and my matric is pretty black and white: Did you sell something? Did younot sell? Something were simple creatures? IGH T and then service, I'mjust going to pull on customer service, because I think it's one that getsoffen ignored and even by marketing, because in marketing not only has toenable sales now they have to enable customer service e. So in the customerservice side its, how quickly did you get off the phone or you know firstcall resolution right, and so, if you line those up is our first, you knowgoal: I'm a Product Marketing Manger S. How many leages did I drive? Sales ishow much stuff that I sell services? How many customers did I get off in thefirst, those three things run people in very different directions. So theunintentional consequence of the disconnection between the metrics andthe measurements and the goals and the understanding the unintendedconsequence is that it manifests itself in a really poor customer experiencebetween the groups right. That makes perfect sense. So if the goals of thosethree groups are ultimately causing a rift in that the totality of thecustomer experience is, it is we're talking. AOUT Wy, you mentioned thisidea of you can't thanke team and- and that was a really fascinating idea tome. Can You unpack that force? T yeah? I think if you, if you sit there and gowell, of course I get along with marketing, and you know my colleaguesand I like yeah, I support what they do and we do in our intention is not to be.I mean, I hope, that our intention is not to sabotage some one other teammember in another group, and I don't think that that's what people show upto every to do everyday. Nor do I think that if you're in customer service that,because you're being measured on a minute and a half or two minute calltime or something like that, that you choose to just upset a customer, I meanI think everyone's intention is to do their best work and to put the customerfirst and that's the intention, but you can't bake it in the eyes of thecustomers. So, if we're all sitting in...

...a room- and you know we break breadtogether and we have team meetings together and we have calls together andeveryone is sort of marching to the same drum. But then the metric at inthe back end is not aligned. You can't fake it in the eyes of the customerbecause they feel the fact that you're not connected so marketing goes. Youknow they pump out o Promo and then customer calls in and goes. I just sawthis Promo and sales rup goes I've, no idea what you're talking about ior the customer calls in and goes. Ijust saw an ad Hore. I read an ad or I saw a tweet. That said, if I'm acurrent customer of yours, I get two months free. If I upgradeed customerservice goes, I don't know what you're talking about. So you know th, youcan't fake it at that moment of truth, when a customer is engaging with abrand in some way could be online offline, human, digital, whatever itmight be. That's what I meant by the fact that you can't fake the team yeah,and so that being said is the answer to this, at least in the examples you gave itseemed like communication internally was: was a big component of an ofmaking sure that those three teams are are on the same page, but I'm surethrethere's more to it than that. Can you elaborate their ativity yeah, I'm goingto go back to what I was just saying. I think that it is absolutely about theMETRIXC, so I'm gin to use just a really basic example. I was at acustomers account maybe a year ago now and I had marketing and sales in theroom, and you know once again being a salesperson, I sort of sometimes pokeat marketer. So I'm going to poke a little bit, but I said okay, who, inthe room is marketind, there's, maybe like a half a dozen eight marketers inthe room and there's probably sixty sales people in the room, and so I said,okay, great i'Mglas, the marketer and come up, and I asked the salesperson tocome up and I said: Okay Marketer. I would like you to divine for me yourdefinition of a marketing qualified lead mm and then they gave it and then I said Oket sales you definewhat a sales qualified lad is and they...

...were totally different and they worked in the same company andwe were in in an all hands meeting. Everyone was in the room, we werebreaking bread executives. Were there individual contributors were there,everybody was there. Righttoo and marketing was like. Well, we have allthe relevant contact information. We have how they found us. We have allthat right. That's a market and qual. If I led te sales goes who you knowlike. I wanted to be ready to close and, of course, I joked back at thesalesperson and said well that if that's the case, we don't really needyou. I was kidding, but it C it's somewherebetween there, if you just start with start with, if you're, marketer andyou're listening like what is your definition of a market, ING, qualifiedlead and go, walk the floor and ask them what their definition of a salesqualified L it is, it might surprise you- and you know I literally meangetting down to the basic, so you have to start with what are the definitions?What are the expectations? What does marketing expect from sales? What issales expect from marketing and if anything, changes in those expectationsyou got to go back and YOUV got to do it again and you have to keepreinforcing those expectations and, like I said, just something as simpleas a definition or you've passed me, a qualified, lad and marketing says well.Sales never follows up and sale says. Well, THAT'S 'CAUSE! The leads are junkright and you have that happening so now. There's no trust between the twogroups, and so they don't. They may not make an effort to sort of Brit Sart tobridge that gap. So I will go back to talk as fantastic and powerpoint.Slides are fantastic, but it has to come down to an agreement. You know atthe field level at the individual contributor level of what it means toget a marketing qualified latand. If sales believes that that's what it is,they're going to have a much higher probability of working them mm yeah.That makes sense- and I would imagine if, if sales has an active role andreally in that Collabor, you know. Obviously, both both parties would havean active role in the conmeration of coming up with that shared terminology,but it makes perfect sense that sails...

...speaking into no. This is this is whatI want it to be. How can the folks and leadership that are listening to thisright now atifany? What would be a tangible next step for them to take assoon as they you know, shut off the podcast this morning and and stoplistening to this? You K, ow is t having in all hands. Is it having ofsomebody from the marketing team, a D somebody from their sales team? Youknow get in the same room and talk what what would be a tangible exstep for thefor the leader. Listening to this yeah, I I think that if you're going toreally start to pivit towards customer experience and go down the path that westarted, this conversation out, it has to come from the top and so decisionsthat get made going forward and so II'll give another example. So I wastraveling months ago and I was going internationally and someone had bookedmy hotels for me and it was out a major brand and I'm a I'm a frequent stayerat the brand, so I'm at the top tier level and their loyalty program, andthey couldn't enter my loyalty number because they didn't know it. So I saidthat's: Okay, I'll just call- and you know just send me the confirmationnumber so I called in with the confirmation numbers and the customerservice. Rep said. Oh, I'm sorry, I must be international you're going tohave to hang up with me and call the properties, so I'm like hold on asecond right like I got A and I'm guessing that that customer serviceagient did not wake up and go I'm just going to really upset my customerstoday and my best customers are most loyal, a D and You know high lifetimevalue. High recency, like the guy. You want right, and so somebody made adecision. Somebody made a decision that either one that the field in their crmsystem could not accept letters in the confirmation number right, because theinternational had a letter apparently so that decision was made or they couldnot dial out. Maybe that was a decision that was made or they could dial U, butthey couldn't diale out long distance or he had to get off the phone. Youknow in two minutes or something because of his metric and if he hadcalled out, maybe it would have been ten minutes. Whatever the reasonsomeone made a decision at some point...

...in time that manifested itself withthat customer service agent. dissatisfying me as a talk to your highlifetime value, high L, highly loyal customer, so if you're going to saywe're going to Piv it that way, I it has to come from the top down and anddecisions like that now have to be made not from what's easiest from the insideout. But what does the customer expect from the outside in even if it was justthe only time we let an agent call out is when it's that tyour customer, let'sjust say, met out so let's at least have a work around. But then let's goback, no one! You know no one followed up with me. You know I said Hey. Canyou make a note like to let someone know just 'cause? I do this for aliving right et. Someone know that, like you got to come up with a solutionfor it, I've not heard from anybody right. So the even the feedback loop ofthat that Causfomr service agent feeling in power to go back to themarketing or go back to sales or go back to their boss and say look. Thishas happened to me like four or five times, and they action it right away,but instead it ends up on some we'll get to it when we get to it list,because they're managing to the metric, so I'd say first and foremost Mondaymorning would be, if you're really going to go after this, you need tohave a leadership meeting that says: If we're going to do this like we need tounderstand what our customers are experiencing today. So we need tolisten in, and customer service calls we need to go on sales calls we need toyou k. We need to get sort of stat of the state what's happening and notbackward looking like seasat surveys or right. It has to be forward. Looking solike in real time and you'd be surprised. I have had executives sit onmy customer service floor before and I could not get even like refundshappening same day to happen for like six months, they sat on that floor. Oneday it got changed immediately because they're, like the amount of time thatperson call center Rahad to spend on the phone explaining to the customer,why they weren't going to get their money back. We could have given themthe money back and saved money and...

...saved Meney right and then, and alsonot had to hire more 'cause wor service reps, because now we could handle thevolume because we're getting people off the phone. I mean u'right, and so Icould not get anybody to move until they experienced it. It's sort of theundercover boss reality of of not understanding, what's really happeningday to day in Your Business Yeah. Until you see it, I love it t. This has beenfantastic. If there's somebody that wants to dig deeper with this with youor or just stay connected with you a and follow what you're putting out onsocial and M Y, all the all the things that you've got going on at sells force,what's the best way for them to go about doing that. Well, you can followme on twitter. It's at Tiffany Tiffandi under score, Bova, which I'm prettyfairly active, ontoit or do a lot there. I just launche my own plodcast called.What's next, it happens every other Thursday yo can find that on Itunes,and I blog a lot on huff post and I also block lockfor for salesfourt Com.But if you're going to dream forse in the next couple of weeks, you know I'llsee you there too love it. Wonderful Tiffany will. Thank you so much foryour time today. I really apprecate it thanks for having me if you're a by, we want to feature youon sites like the Huffington Post, social, MEA, examine earth and chiefmarker. Every week we seen not a question reallyen to be to be marketing.We use the responses to those questions to feel the content. We write forreally popular websites so head over to sweetfish, medy com, slash questionsand sign up today. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (1619)